Current Events > Medieval peasants worked only 150 days in a year. Mandatory holidays.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/0/6/AAefUOAADfj6.jpg

WingsOfGood posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/0/6/AAefUOAADfj6.jpg

That is a meme, not a historical fact.

Back it up with something that isn't text over a picture.

The other 215 days they were bedridden with an infection

DrizztLink posted...

That is a meme, not a historical fact.

Back it up with something that isn't text over a picture.

https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/84600/how-many-hours-did-people-really-work-across-human-history

Irony posted...

The other 215 days they were bedridden with an infection

Considering how healthcare is borderline inaccessible to most Americans, you might as well say the same about today.

Wow, it's almost like when your job is working in the fields you can't work when nothing can grow. Let's all pretend they spent that off time sitting in their shack watching TV and not performing the other 8 million things they needed to do to survive the winter.

CRON posted...

Considering how healthcare is borderline inaccessible to most Americans, you might as well say the same about today.

Regular bathing basically eliminates this for most people

More commie gibberish

Ooh I found the part where the world broke

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/1/4/AARLwzAADfkC.jpg

DrizztLink posted...

That is a meme, not a historical fact.

Back it up with something that isn't text over a picture.

https://historycollection.com/medieval-peasants-worked-fewer-hours-than-modern-americans/

https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-more

https://www.businessinsider.com/american-worker-less-vacation-medieval-peasant-2016-11

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3916280/Feeling-overworked-Research-reveals-medieval-peasants-SEVEN-TIMES-vacation-average-American-employee.html

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Overworked-American-Unexpected-Decline-Leisure/dp/046505434X

They were probably payed less and overworked.

*copes*

Tyranthraxus posted...

Ooh I found the part where the world broke

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/1/4/AARLwzAADfkC.jpg

correct

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html

One of capitalism's most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil. This myth is typically defended by a comparison of the modern forty-hour week with its seventy- or eighty-hour counterpart in the nineteenth century. The implicit -- but rarely articulated -- assumption is that the eighty-hour standard has prevailed for centuries. The comparison conjures up the dreary life of medieval peasants, toiling steadily from dawn to dusk. We are asked to imagine the journeyman artisan in a cold, damp garret, rising even before the sun, laboring by candlelight late into the night.

These images are backward projections of modern work patterns. And they are false. Before capitalism, most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure. When capitalism raised their incomes, it also took away their time. Indeed, there is good reason to believe that working hours in the mid-nineteenth century constitute the most prodigious work effort in the entire history of humankind.

WingsOfGood posted...

https://historycollection.com/medieval-peasants-worked-fewer-hours-than-modern-americans/

https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-more

https://www.businessinsider.com/american-worker-less-vacation-medieval-peasant-2016-11

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3916280/Feeling-overworked-Research-reveals-medieval-peasants-SEVEN-TIMES-vacation-average-American-employee.html

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Overworked-American-Unexpected-Decline-Leisure/dp/046505434X

Much better, thank you.

BloodMoon7 posted...

They were probably payed less and overworked.

*copes*

does that give the modern world the right to expect you to work way more than them?

The downsides of being a medieval peasant greatly outweight the benefits of working way fewer days. Most prominently starving to death when you have a bad harvest. Dying of diseases and infections or abcessed teeth that you would easily survive today and having your village pillaged by armies or bandits passing by are some other notable ones.

And of course, the smell.

WingsOfGood posted...

does that give the modern world the right to expect you to work way more than them?

A little

s0nicfan posted...

Wow, it's almost like when your job is working in the fields you can't work when nothing can grow. Let's all pretend they spent that off time sitting in their shack watching TV and not performing the other 8 million things they needed to do to survive the winter.

You just gotta improve the soil quality and health. I grow lots of stuff all year in Rune Factory 5.

From the .edu

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html

Therefore, we must take a longer view and look back not just one hundred years, but three or four, even six or seven hundred.

Consider a typical working day in the medieval period. It stretched from dawn to dusk (sixteen hours in summer and eight in winter), but, as the Bishop Pilkington has noted, work was intermittent - called to a halt for breakfast, lunch, the customary afternoon nap, and dinner. Depending on time and place, there were also midmorning and midafternoon refreshment breaks. These rest periods were the traditional rights of laborers, which they enjoyed even during peak harvest times. During slack periods, which accounted for a large part of the year, adherence to regular working hours was not usual. According to Oxford Professor James E. Thorold Rogers[1], the medieval workday was not more than eight hours.

The worker participating in the eight-hour movements of the late nineteenth century was "simply striving to recover what his ancestor worked by four or five centuries ago."

This dispels the copium that they were worked harder as well

TheDurinator posted...

The downsides of being a medieval peasant greatly outweight the benefits of working way fewer days. Most prominently starving to death when you have a bad harvest. Dying of diseases and infections or abcessed teeth that you would easily survive today and having your village pillaged by armies or bandits passing by are some other notable ones.

And of course, the smell.

Why do you think it is use a time machine to become a literal medeival peasants

or work longer hours than them?

@TheDurinator

Irony posted...

The other 215 days they were bedridden with an infection

This is why I'm not interested in going back to anytime before antibiotics existed.

If I had a time machine I'd go back in time and show the medieval peasants Cool Ranch Doritos

TheDurinator posted...

The downsides of being a medieval peasant greatly outweight the benefits of working way fewer days. Most prominently starving to death when you have a bad harvest. Dying of diseases and infections or abcessed teeth that you would easily survive today and having your village pillaged by armies or bandits passing by are some other notable ones.

And of course, the smell.

We still have people starving in the US. As well as bad healthcare. And gun violence. Frankly I'd prefer we go back to attacking each other with pointy sticks, at least it would make the headlines more interesting.

I want medieval work hours with modern culture, make it happen boys

Prismsblade posted...

This is why I'm not interested in going back to anytime before antibiotics existed.

there is not time machine

stop trying to cope and think you have better things today so it is ok you work more hours

start thinking why you need to work more hours today and if working less hours actually means you go back in time

because spoilers, it doesn't
you will not go back in time, you will live in modern time and just work less hours

TheDurinator posted...

The downsides of being a medieval peasant greatly outweight the benefits of working way fewer days. Most prominently starving to death when you have a bad harvest. Dying of diseases and infections or abcessed teeth that you would easily survive today and having your village pillaged by armies or bandits passing by are some other notable ones.

And of course, the smell.

I don't think anyone bringing this up is advocating for a return to the standard of living of medieval peasants. Rather, it is done to point out that our modern work life balance isn't the vast, luxurious improvement we are often led to believe. It's a modern invention meant to make the rich richer in spite of the improvements brought about by industrialization and automation.

Gonna be real here, there's no way that being a medieval peasant was a better experience than me working a 40+ hour a week office job lol

We definitely should work less hours but I also don't think the peasant comparison is a good one.

darkmaian23 posted...

I don't think anyone bringing this up is advocating for a return to the standard of living of medieval peasants. Rather, it is done to point out that our modern work life balance isn't the vast, luxurious improvement we are often led to believe. It's a modern invention meant to make the rich richer in spite of the improvements brought about by industrialization and automation.

this

David1988 posted...

I want medieval work hours with modern culture, make it happen boys

Best I can do is medieval work hours if you have the same recurring expenses as them. So if you cut out basically all entertainment, all eating out, internet, phone, cars, healthcare, buying clothes, running water, etc then you may very well be able to buy a small one or two bedroom house near farmland in Ohio and only work 150 days out of the year.

There is this belief that peasants toiled away in candle light, when even the richest man in the land wouldn't have been able to supply enough candles. They stopped working at sundown, because tapers were terrible to try and do anything with -- except go to bed.

However, you don't realize how lucky you are with antibiotics -- a peasant cut themselves on a stray rose, and got an infection, they'd have to lose that limb, if they were lucky. Just an agonizing death (confusion or disorientation, extreme pain or discomfort and shortness of breath), if not.
That's why in a Zombie apocalypse, raid all the Antibiotics you can, or alternatively learn how to make penicillin, easily.

Also, if you're female, modern medicine has revolutionized child birth -- having a child in the medieval period trumps every single extreme sport you can think of, Base Jumping one of the most dangerous has a fatality rate of 1 in every 2,300 jumps. Well, the fatality rate for birthing a child in medieval times was 1 in 5. An abysmal rate, and if that wasn't all, and you actually have your child.... Well, 19 per cent of infants died before the age of two.

s0nicfan posted...

Best I can do is medieval work hours if you have the same recurring expenses as them. So if you cut out basically all entertainment, all eating out, internet, phone, cars, healthcare, buying clothes, running water, etc then you may very well be able to buy a small one or two bedroom house near farmland in Ohio and only work 150 days out of the year.

poor people stop having phones! this is why you can't afford rent!

s0nicfan posted...

Best I can do is medieval work hours if you have the same recurring expenses as them. So if you cut out basically all entertainment, all eating out, internet, phone, cars, healthcare, buying clothes, running water, etc then you may very well be able to buy a small one or two bedroom house near farmland in Ohio and only work 150 days out of the year.

How many hours if I just want to play Nintendo Switch on my Ohio farmland house?

coolguyjimmy posted...

There is this belief that peasants toiled away in candle light, when even the richest man in the land wouldn't have been able to supply enough candles. They stopped working at sundown, because tapers were terrible to try and do anything with -- except go to bed.

However, you don't realize how lucky you are with antibiotics -- a peasant cut themselves on a stray rose, and got an infection, they'd have to lose that limb, if they were lucky. Just an agonizing death (confusion or disorientation, extreme pain or discomfort and shortness of breath), if not.
That's why in a Zombie apocalypse, raid all the Antibiotics you can, or alternatively learn how to make penicillin, easily.

Also, if you're female, modern medicine has revolutionized child birth -- having a child in the medieval period trumps every single extreme sport you can think of, Base Jumping one of the most dangerous has a fatality rate of 1 in every 2,300 jumps. Well, the fatality rate for birthing a child in medieval times was 1 in 5. An abysmal rate, and if that wasn't all, and you actually have your child.... Well, 19 per cent of infants died before the age of two.

antibiotics don't cease to exist because people work less hours

so why did you bring it up?

if anything, a social movement that wins at making less hours can also make healthcare cheaper as that would be in their targetting scope

insulin for example

BUT MUH WORK

lol dont make me laugh

(not saying anyone has said this. I haven't actually read this topic, but lol)

WingsOfGood posted...

poor people stop having phones! this is why you can't afford rent!

That's not at all what I said, but I'm not shocked you missed the point (intentionally or otherwise).

s0nicfan posted...

That's not at all what I said, but I'm not shocked you missed the point (intentionally or otherwise).

you literally said that he could afford a small cottage if he cut out his phone, car, healthcare

WingsOfGood posted...

antibiotics don't cease to exist because people work less hours

so why did you bring it up?

if anything, a social movement that wins at making less hours can also make healthcare cheaper as that would be in their targetting scope

insulin for example

I thought we were talking about the medieval period. I would love to do fuck-all, all day, every day -- bring UBI on, is what I say.

It's the transition I am not looking forward to, when automation have made millions of jobs obsolete, but there's not sign of UBI on the horizon.... just unemployment, except for the chosen few.

coolguyjimmy posted...

I thought we were talking about the medieval period. I would love to do fuck-all, all day, every day -- bring UBI on, is what I say.

It's the transition I am not looking forward to, when automation have made millions of jobs obsolete, but there's not sign of UBI on the horizon.... just unemployment, except for the chosen few.

Just learn a new skill easy.

coolguyjimmy posted...

I thought we were talking about the medieval period. I would love to do fuck-all, all day, every day -- bring UBI on, is what I say.

It's the transition I am not looking forward to, when automation have made millions of jobs obsolete, but there's not sign of UBI on the horizon.... just unemployment, except for the chosen few.

noting the medeival period peasants worked less hours doesn't make antibiotics dissappear

it is kinda crazy how often this is the keenjerk reaction to this info

it is like "hey did you know your worklife balance is WORSE than people 1000 years ago?"

"OMG FUCK YOU THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANTIBIOTICS so thank GOD I WORK ALL THE FUCKING TIME!"

like holy moly

Should we go back to medieval?

Beast_Le_Chonk7 posted...

Should we go back to medieval?

Return to plebeian

Beast_Le_Chonk7 posted...

Should we go back to medieval?

no

darkmaian23 posted...

I don't think anyone bringing this up is advocating for a return to the standard of living of medieval peasants. Rather, it is done to point out that our modern work life balance isn't the vast, luxurious improvement we are often led to believe. It's a modern invention meant to make the rich richer in spite of the improvements brought about by industrialization and automation.

You should rather consider why it is they worked less.
And why your first reaction is to think someone is wanting to go back in time? Kinda been trained to defend your status quo haven't you?

A third of the work days, a third of the lifespan seems fair.

I'm not sure we can have this version of our life and also have everyone work 200 days a year

Feel free to prive me wrong

MedeaLysistrata posted...

I'm not sure we can have this version of our life and also have everyone work 200 days a year

even in modern times other countries actually force employers to give way more vacation time than even the best American jobs

WingsOfGood posted...

even in modern times other countries actually force employers to give way more vacation time than even the best American jobs

America specifically is weird about vacation time, but you guys mostly produce services useful to other wealthy people, I mean I don't think I can have 20 lacoste shirts unless the factories are at max production

Also the notion they were forced to work appears to have been a lie:

The peasant's free time extended beyond officially sanctioned holidays. There is considerable evidence of what economists call the backward-bending supply curve of labor -- the idea that when wages rise, workers supply less labor. During one period of unusually high wages (the late fourteenth century), many laborers refused to work "by the year or the half year or by any of the usual terms but only by the day." And they worked only as many days as were necessary to earn their customary income -- which in this case amounted to about 120 days a year, for a probable total of only 1,440 hours annually (this estimate assumes a 12-hour day because the days worked were probably during spring, summer and fall). A thirteenth-century estime finds that whole peasant families did not put in more than 150 days per year on their land. Manorial records from fourteenth-century England indicate an extremely short working year -- 175 days -- for servile laborers. Later evidence for farmer-miners, a group with control over their worktime, indicates they worked only 180 days a year.

WingsOfGood posted...

You should rather consider why it is they worked less.

Why did they work less?

The comments of "oh but life was so bad in those times" are stupid as hell. Life being bad in those times is not relevant to the hours they worked and vice versa. They are separate things, and modern quality of life isn't better than life was in medieval times due to working more hours, so it holds no purpose to the discussion. Shut the fuck up with those comments.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

Life being bad in those times is not relevant to the hours they worked and vice versa

Trying to divorce the two entirely seems dubious at best, but mostly ideology based.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

The comments of "oh but life was so bad in those times" are stupid as hell. Life being bad in those times is not relevant to the hours they worked and vice versa. They are separate things, and modern quality of life isn't better than life was in medieval times due to working more hours, so it holds no purpose to the discussion. Shut the fuck up with those comments.

If anything their work was more critical to human life.

They were able to work less as FOOD producers.

The world doesn't really ache when most modern jobs work less. Only the rich profiteers are who ache.