Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 74: The Cranberries' No Need to Argue (+Jack White results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, August 7 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

The Cranberries - No Need to Argue track list:
1. Ode to My Family
2. I Can't Be With You
3. Twenty One
4. Zombie
5. Empty
6. Everything I Said
7. The Icicle Melts
8. Disappointment
9. Ridiculous Thoughts
10. Dreaming My Dream
11. Yeat's Grave
12. Daffodil Lament
13. No Need to Argue

User Cycle:
8/07: BlueCrystalTear (Sunspot - Singularity)
8/14: MetalmindStats (Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road)
8/21: HBJDubs
8/28: Raetsel_Lapin
9/04: Steiner
9/11: Snake5555555555
9/18: Jesse_Custer
9/25: ZaziGuado
10/02: firefdr
10/09: Johnbobb
10/16: VeryInsane
10/23: FoolFantastic
10/30: Seanchan
11/06: Giggsalot
11/13: RyoCaliente
11/20: darkx
11/27: neonreaper
12/04: Great_Paul
12/11: jcgamer107
12/18: ChichiriMuyo

Jack White - Fear of the Dawn results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
Seanchan (26)
FoolFantastic (30)
Johnbobb (30)
Raetsel_Lapin (32)
MetalmindStats (32)
HBJDubs (34)
neonreaper (34)
RyoCaliente (34)
jcgamer107 (34)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: That was not what I expected! Certainly a different sound than The White Stripes. Jack also sounds a little different but I guess thats what 20 years will do.

Raetsel_Lapin: This is a great album, one of the few where I can say I didn't dislike a single song. Very glad we covered this one and I got a chance to find several Jack White songs I like after my response to the last album featuring him.

HBJDubs: I dislike almost all of Jack White's content, but I actually kinda dig this album. I am pleasantly surprised! This is why I like participating in these; you never know when something you would normally never give a chance proves you wrong.

neonreaper: Fairly easy to digest most of this album. I think my ordering was pretty clear after the first spin.

BlueCrystalTear: I tried listening. I lasted two and a half songs before I realized that this album was nothing more than someone yelling over a lot of noise. I hated every second of it. Another week's version of myself might've loved this but this week's me didn't. This headache is exactly what I didn't need right now.

Johnbobb: you know I was a little hesitant about doing a Jack White solo album. I listened to Blunderbuss, his original solo album, and though it was just okay? Like it was immediately forgettable; it really just kinda sounded like a White Stripes album, but with less personality. But that was also a decade ago, and it's nice to see he's reshaped his sound a lot into something that's much, much more distinct than years back. This album was surprisingly incredible. I kept listening kinda just hoping for a song that wasn't a standout so it'd be easier to rank, and I never really found one (except Dusk, which barely counts).

Seanchan: This one was a pleasant surprise. I wasn't the biggest fan of Elephant, so I was kind of dreading doing another Jack White album. Thankfully this is a very different sound than The White Stripes. Other than the bottom 2, my ranking is pretty fluid; this is another one of those albums where there wasn't a super clear cut #1. I also think I liked this more as an album than I did any individual tracks. Still, the fact that I did an extra listen to this during the week is a pretty good indication that I enjoyed it.

jcgamer107: My album of the year so far, 'Fear of the Dawn' is a major return to form for Jack's solo career, featuring more intricate composition and mixing, bolstered by his trademark garage rock energy.

MetalmindStats: I could just as well have ranked places 3-8 in any order.

Fear of the Dawn track ranking

12. Dusk (Track #7)
Score: 15 (Average Rank: 11.33/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#8)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs, neonreaper, RyoCaliente, Johnbobb, Seanchan, jcgamer107, MetalmindStats (#12)

jcgamer107: Not much to this of course but it's a fine little interlude

11. Eosophobia (Reprise) (Track #10)
Score: 34 (Average Rank: 9.22/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#6)
Biggest Detractor(s): FoolFantastic (#11)

jcgamer107: Love the 'chugging' opening to this. Would still be OK as just a standalone song separate from Eosophobia.

10. What's the Trick (Track #8)
Score: 57 (Average Rank: 7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): jcgamer107 (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#12)

jcgamer107: Maybe the track that sounds most like an old-school White Stripes song. Jack's guitar is raw and menacing here.

9. Morning, Noon and Night (Track #11)
Score: 58 (Average Rank: 6.56/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs, RyoCaliente (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#10)

jcgamer107: A solid track that marks the winding down of the album. Has a charming old-timey blues sound to it but with a basic keyboard riff and an almost-intentionally dissonant solo.

8. That Was Then (This is Now) (Track #9)
Score: 59 (Average Rank: 6.44/12)
Biggest Fan(s): FoolFantastic (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#10)

jcgamer107: Only weak part of this is when he finally gets to the song's title. I really dig the repeated triplet drum fill that ends at what sounds like a brake drum.

7. Hi-De-Ho (Track #4)
Score: 60 (Average Rank: 6.89/12)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper, MetalmindStats (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): FoolFantastic (#12)

jcgamer107: I had no idea what to make of this for the first several listens, but now I love it. Q-Tip crushes it. A wild mish-mash of like 5 different genres.

6. Into the Twilight (Track #6)
Score: 62 (Average Rank: 6.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs, RyoCaliente, Seanchan (#11)

jcgamer107: Manages to stay interesting for almost 5 minutes with hardly any lyrical structure

5. Eosophobia (Track #5)
Score: 68 (Average Rank: 6.22/12)
Biggest Fan(s): jcgamer107 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#10)

jcgamer107: My #1 summer jam. Starts a bit inconspicuously but builds into a contagiously energetic chorus, contrasting with its brooding half-time verse.

4. Fear of the Dawn (Track #2)
Score: 79 (Average Rank: 5.11/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#11)

jcgamer107: Pretty much just 2 minutes of Jack soloing which is a-ok

3. Shedding My Velvet (Track #12)
Score: 85 (Average Rank: 4.78/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, HBJDubs (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): jcgamer107 (#11)

jcgamer107: Even as a more somber, 'downer' track, it has some pretty sick guitar

2. The White Raven (Track #3)
Score: 91 (Average Rank: 4.11/12)
Biggest Fan(s): RyoCaliente, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper (#8)

jcgamer107: Up until right now I thought he was saying A Wine Machine Gun, A Wine Machine Gun. Classic weird Jack White vocals.

1. Taking Me Back (Track #1)
Score: 97 (Average Rank: 3.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): FoolFantastic, MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper, RyoCaliente (#7)

jcgamer107: A very good choice for the album's main single. Cool 'strobe' effect on the guitar.

Brief notes on my picks:

My theme this time was simply well-known bands that I like that have not been featured yet in this series. For the specific album choices I personally believe these have the potential for the highest variance in user rankings.

My familiarity with the Cranberries is limited to "Linger", "Dreams", and "Zombie" so this is gonna be interesting to go through.

I thought I should just do a first listen today and, after completing it, I found a lot of songs to be repetitive - the lyrics just refrain again and again to a pretty ridiculous extent. The vocals and instrumentation are excellent but the band reaches its heights when the song isn't six words long. And there are definitely some here, though... not quite in the song I expected them to be. I like that.

Will get at least two more listens in this week.

10K Days is an interesting choice

Aenema I feel would've been the obvious go-to and Lateralus probably (arguably) has the guess singles

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I found a lot of songs to be repetitive - the lyrics just refrain again and again to a pretty ridiculous extent. The vocals and instrumentation are excellent

That's about how I feel after the first listen. I've spent more than enough time ranting against repetition, so let's just say this album isn't for me... but I do find their sound intriguing enough that I don't especially mind listening to this album anyway.

bump

Depression is repetitive, kids.

The Cranberries
everybody else is doing it, so why can't we?

Still Can't...
How
Wanted
Linger
Put Me Down
Waltzing Back
I Still Do
Pretty
Not Sorry
Sunday
I Will Always
Dreams

This whole album, it's all about the kind of depression one might experience when they've been abused, at least emotionally, at a young age. This is Dolores's songwriting about her youth, and it's not a coincidence that the follow up is "no need to argue." No caps. Not in either album. The two albums in totality are just saying "fine, I tried, now I'm going off on my own." I don't really know her life, but I know from the songs on these two albums that she was escaping something, someone that made her feel less than. I think maybe over the course of this weeks album you might figure that out.

That said, I love Dreams, it's a good single. However as an entry on this album I'd say some producer said "can't you pretend to be happy for once?" and so she pretended.

Now then, onto "no need to argue"

^Uhhhh wrong Cranberries album >_>

BlueCrystalTear posted...

^Uhhhh wrong Cranberries album >_>

They did say onto this one at the end of their post

I think I was too confused as to whether or not I'd listened to the right album, so I missed that part. My bad.

(I'm surprised this was the choice for The Cranberries rather than everybody else..., so I can understand that confusion)

Hey I voted for Tool but please let Rage win because I absolutely do not want to listen to more Offspring

I occasionally think about but keep forgetting to implement a ranked version of the poll. Something like:
Offspring (backup: Tool)
Offspring (backup: Rage)
Tool (backup: Offspring)
Tool (backup: Rage)
Rage (backup: Offspring)
Rage (backup: Tool)

And, in this case, all the Tool votes would then be transferred to the other totals. This would probably be a good way to eliminate strategic voting.

FoolFantastic posted...

I occasionally think about but keep forgetting to implement a ranked version of the poll. Something like:
Offspring (backup: Tool)
Offspring (backup: Rage)
Tool (backup: Offspring)
Tool (backup: Rage)
Rage (backup: Offspring)
Rage (backup: Tool)

And, in this case, all the Tool votes would then be transferred to the other totals. This would probably be a good way to eliminate strategic voting.

I like this idea. Theres definitely been times I havent voted because my choice has no chance or even anti voted.

First listen done.

My initial impression ranged from eh to zzz. I perked up a bit in the 2nd half. Not sure if thats because the back half is better or if after 30 minutes I finally caught the wave of the album.

We'll see what a few more listens brings. This one is a big drop in energy after the last 2 weeks.

I'm fine with the backup options. Do you think basically doing a 2/1/0 voting format would work? Like... all votes for "Offspring (backup: Tool)" would give +2 to Offspring and +1 to Tool.

Seanchan posted...

We'll see what a few more listens brings. This one is a big drop in energy after the last 2 weeks.

Yeah, this one is sleepier than what we've had lately. Though it's a welcome follow-up to last week for me, because I couldn't listen to that last week.

You'll be pleased to know that next week has some good rocking songs. Do you guys think I should post my rankings immediately, or just information about each song? Or nothing whatsoever and let people figure it out? This is probably the first week where it's so indie that people may want information, and I can put together whatever's requested.

Sorry, I meant for it to be more clear that I was knowingly talking about the "wrong" album. I find it hard to separate the two when talking about them as thematically they feel like two parts of a whole to me.

Even taking into account the nearly universal last place ranking of Dusk, the spread in deviation for Fear of the Dawn was surprisingly small. Maybe a few less rankers than usual but still, there's usually at least 1 person who's a good bit separated from the rest.

1: Ode To My Family
2: Everything I Said
3: No Need to Argue
4: Yeat's Grave
5: I Can't Be With You
6: Twenty One
7: Zombie
8: Daffodil Lament
9: Ridiculous Thoughts
10: Disappointment
11: Empty
12: Dreaming My Dreams
13: The Icicle Melts

Bump.

up

And again.

My rank:
Zombie
I Can't Be With You
Ode to My Family
Ridiculous Thoughts
Daffodil Lament
Empty
Disappointment
The Icicle Melts
Yeat's Grave
No Need to Argue
Twenty One
Dreaming My Dream
Everything I Said

Finally got a second listen in. My opinions didn't sway all that much here. A few songs jumped 2-3 spots but nothing too substantial. Will do one more listen tomorrow or Satuday.

I was listening a bit to that other new Jack White album. Glad we didnt do that one. Its not as aggressive and is more toned back/traditional, at least from the first couple of tracks I listened to.

Three listens was enough for me. I like, but don't love, this. My rankings became pretty clear to me after three, with only slight changes from one to the next. The top three and the bottom three stayed the same (same order for the top though) from one listen to the next.

1. Dreaming My Dreams - A sweet little ditty. The violin meshing with the electric sounds helps a lot. Hidden gem alert
2. Ode to My Family - A weird fusion of folk, rock, and synthpop that oddly works together well and is thematically memorable for that reason.
3. Zombie - The big single. Probably my favorite instrumentation-wise, but that's only half of it.
4. Daffodil Lament
5. No Need to Argue
6. I Can't Be With You
7. Yeats' Grave - Poetry about poets. I love that. The overdubs were a bit much though.
8. Ridiculous Thoughts
9. Twenty One - So repetitive that I noticed toward the end, but the instrumentation and vocals give it points
10. Disappointment
11. Empty - Loved the start with the drums, but the redundant "Empty-eeeee-eeeee-eeeee" is so annoying
12. The Icicle Melts - The music kind of clashes with the message, and... I'm a guy. Can't exactly relate to this.
13. Everything I Said

Zombie
Daffodil Lament
Ode To My Family
Yeats' Grave
Dreaming My Dreams
Everything I Said
Disappointment
Ridiculous Thoughts
No Need To Argue
I Can't Be With You
The Icicle Melts
Twenty One
Empty

Bump.

Yeat's Grave
Zombie - Such a great track. It's a good song, it's a catchy song, and it stands out.
Ode to My Family
Ridiculous Thoughts
I Can't Be With You
Daffodil Lament
Disappointment
Dreaming My Dream
The Icicle Melts
Twenty One
Empty
Everything I Said
No Need to Argue

After my top three songs, I'd say most of the album is "okay" for. They were a good band that seemed to make the music that they set out to make, I enjoy some of it quite a bit, and respect the rest of it. I don't have a ton of confidence in my middle rankings, but I was happy to listen to Yeat's Grave a bunch this week :)

Zombie
The Icicle Melts
Ode to My Family
No Need to Argue - goddamn this one made me sob
Empty
Disappointment
I Can't Be With You
Yeat's Grave
Ridiculous Thoughts
Dreaming My Dream
Everything I Said
Daffodil Lament
Twenty One

overall a great album, and Dolores O'Riordan is flat out incredible at using her voice less for traditional vocals and more as an instrument of its own

BlueCrystalTear posted...

The Icicle Melts - The music kind of clashes with the message, and... I'm a guy. Can't exactly relate to this.

this might be the weirdest take of the entire topic series so far

it's a song about a child that was kidnapped and killed and an expression of sympathy for his mother; what does being a guy have to do with that? Guys can still feel sympathy for losing a child.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

1. Zombie
2. Yeat's Grave
3. Ode to My Family
4. Ridiculous Thoughts
5. Dreaming My Dream
6. No Need to Argue
7. Twenty One
8. I Can't Be With You
9. Daffodil Lament
10. The Icicle Melts
11. Everything I Said
12. Disappointment
13. Empty

I didn't particularly care for this album. It's fine, I don't hate it, but I can't see myself listening to it again except maybe as background music that I'm not paying attention to.

Johnbobb posted...

it's a song about a child that was kidnapped and killed and an expression of sympathy for his mother; what does being a guy have to do with that? Guys can still feel sympathy for losing a child.

...I thought it was about pregnancy, because "Nine months is too long." WHOOPS!

Scrub my take from that please.

Also do you guys think I should do an intro for my album next week seeing as... it's far and away the most obscure album we've done, and I don't want anyone to make a mistake like I did here.

I already have a rough draft >_>

ChichiriMuyo posted...

The Cranberries
everybody else is doing it, so why can't we?

Still Can't...
How
Wanted
Linger
Put Me Down
Waltzing Back
I Still Do
Pretty
Not Sorry
Sunday
I Will Always
Dreams

This whole album, it's all about the kind of depression one might experience when they've been abused, at least emotionally, at a young age. This is Dolores's songwriting about her youth, and it's not a coincidence that the follow up is "no need to argue." No caps. Not in either album. The two albums in totality are just saying "fine, I tried, now I'm going off on my own." I don't really know her life, but I know from the songs on these two albums that she was escaping something, someone that made her feel less than. I think maybe over the course of this weeks album you might figure that out.

That said, I love Dreams, it's a good single. However as an entry on this album I'd say some producer said "can't you pretend to be happy for once?" and so she pretended.

Now then, onto "no need to argue"

Uhh...are you going to tackle your actual album for the week?

Of course I am. I am listening to it again right now. :)

A lot of bands face a sophomore slump. They put together every good to decent thing they've ever written and just find themselves creatively tapped by their second album. Not The Cranberries. No, not only were they able to largely continue with the same feel and content as their first album they went further, evolving it, going deeper and darker, creating their Magnum Opus. Dolores O'Riordan really looked into her world, inner and outer, and saw so much darkness and refined it into genuine poetry. She expresses her pain from difficult relationships (familial, social and romantic) as well as the pain she saw around her, especially when it came to the ways innocent children can be hurt by people with so much more power than them. Yet in spite of all this doom and gloom there is a glimmer of hope in there. Just because things have been bad, just because bad things may continue to happen, there's no reason to believe it will always be bad. You can move on from it, maybe you can even be stronger for it.

Ranking the tracks of this album was incredibly difficult for me, almost like ranking one's own children. Every single track taps into something deep inside me, even the weakest on the album (not that I think any of them are weak). It certainly doesn't hurt that this album came out just as I was entering that troublesome period of puberty, meaning that every one of these songs felt like they were written for me by the only person in the world who understood what I was going through. lol. I guess there's no need to argue, this album will always be special to me, special to me.

Zombie
Daffodil Lament
Yeat's Grave
No Need To Argue
Ridiculous Thoughts
Dreaming My Dreams
Everything I Said
Empty
Disappointment
The Icicle Melts
Ode To My Family
I Can't Be With You
Twenty One

1. Zombie
2. Ridiculous Thoughts
3. No Need to Argue
4. I Cant Be With You
5. The Icicle Melts
6. Ode to My Family
7. Disappointment
8. Dreaming My Dream
9. Daffodil Lament
10. Everything I Said
11. Yeats Grave
12. Twenty One
13. Empty

I think I like every song here individually, as well as the way they all come together to comprise an album.
---
BlueCrystalTear posted...

Also do you guys think I should do an intro for my album next week seeing as... it's far and away the most obscure album we've done, and I don't want anyone to make a mistake like I did here.

I already have a rough draft >_>

Since you're asking for thoughts, I think you should post an intro if you desire, and not if you don't. And yes, I'm sure that's not very helpful.

Re our polls, I'm open to making them ranked choice - probably favorable, but I could see them producing turnout issues given the possibility that voters in a given week have only been exposed to one of that week's albums.