Current Events > Latest Discourse: Is Ghosting clear communication?

(+) Yeah! (+)

MrDrMan posted...

If you dont understand that people can refuse to engage at any time for any reason then youre the one lacking social skills.

one time i made a topic on here about how i just gently shut the door on some missionaries without saying anything, and almost every single response was absolutely furious at me and insisting i was wrong to do so

i'm pretty sure CE is just baselessly contrarian in every situation with little to no consistency otherwise

MrDrMan posted...

If you dont understand that people can refuse to engage at any time for any reason then youre the one lacking social skills.

Literally nobody cares about your feelings. Time to wake up.

Just keep making excuses so you never have to learn to act like an adult and talk to people

KhlavicLanguage posted...

one time i made a topic on here about how i just gently shut the door on some missionaries without saying anything, and almost every single response was absolutely furious at me and insisting i was wrong to do so

i'm pretty sure CE is just baselessly contrarian in every situation with little to no consistency otherwise

Some folks here need a reality check.

Background_Guy posted...

Just keep making excuses so you never have to learn to act like an adult and talk to people

Yet I have a girlfriend and you probably dont.

You have to pick your battles. Social battery is a thing.

frozenstar posted...

if a chick ghosts you, it's probably on you or it isn't on you and you shouldn't take it personally. just take the L and move on.

There's a big difference between it's probably on you or it isn't lol

Do you have a glaring red flag you'd like to know about so you can work on? Or isthis girl dating someone else and it just got more serious? And it's literally nothing you did

Like I try to learn lessons from every person I date but with ghosting I can't learn shit.

I'm not gonna use the word trauma but I've been ghosted enough times now that I am hyper sensitive to doing anything wrong or even the slightest misunderstanding in the early stages of dating now. I'm walking on eggshells at the beginning lol

haloiscoolisbak posted...

There's a big difference between it's probably on you or it isn't lol

Do you ever have a glaring red flag you'd like to know about so you can work on? Or this girl dating someone else and it just got more serious?

Like I try to learn lessons from every person I date but with ghosting I can't learn shit.

I'm not gonna use the word trauma but I've been ghosted enough times now that I am hyper sensitive to doing anything wrong or even the slightest misunderstanding in the early stages of dating now. I'm walking on eggshells at the beginning lol

my point is that if a girl is willing to make you guess, she's either playing stupid games or you're a backup plan at best.

No one is obligated to speak or respond to you. If you can't take the hint then perhaps you need to look inwardly.

Crimsoness posted...

No one is obligated to speak or respond to you. If you can't take the hint then perhaps you need to look inwardly.

based

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Do you have a glaring red flag you'd like to know about so you can work on?

I've seen some girls say that the intentionally won't tell guys about their red flags because they are worried they instead of trying to fix them the guys will just try to get better at hiding them.

there's guys in here passionately arguing that women should always be available to talk

MrDrMan posted...

Yet I have a girlfriend and you probably dont.

You have to pick your battles. Social battery is a thing.

Haha sure bud. You're unable to actually refute what I said (because I'm right) so now you're trying to enter a dick measuring contest instead. Well I don't wanna measure dicks.

I no longer have interest in this conversation. Good bye, and have a good night. See, that was easy!

What's the story behind getting ghosted to feel this strongly about it? It's only ever happened when I use dating apps. My reasons are straight forward i just lost intrest but normally the conversations prior are just over text. Same thing in reverse I don't take it personally It's like getting upset over rejection. Just accept it and move on.

If it's a trend happening to you often then you might have to change some things.

Background_Guy posted...

Haha sure bud. You're unable to actually refute what I said (because I'm right) so now you're trying to enter a dick measuring contest instead. Well I don't wanna measure dicks.

I no longer have interest in this conversation. Good bye, and have a good night. See, that was easy!

Get some social skills bro.

ok look at it this way: in the same way a woman isn't obligated to respond to you in a way you deep appropriate, you're also NOT obligated to hang on to this woman in any sort of romantic fashion

silverpine posted...

there's guys in here passionately arguing that women should always be available to talk

Um, no. We're talking reasonable timeframe here. I'm not getting upset if I don't get a reply to a message in 10 minutes lol. It starts to feel like ghosting after 2-3 days. Regardless I never send a follow up message anymore since it only makes things worse. so 2-3 days may as well be forever.

Hell no it ain't. You don't have to straight up reject somebody but it is normal and considerate to give multiple indications that you are not interested; whether it be SLOWING down communications, body language or showing overall disinterest.

People can of course do whatever they want but straight up dropping all communications out of nowhere is incredibly rude.

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Like I try to learn lessons from every person I date but with ghosting I can't learn shit.

I'm not gonna use the word trauma but I've been ghosted enough times now that I am hyper sensitive to doing anything wrong or even the slightest misunderstanding in the early stages of dating now. I'm walking on eggshells at the beginning lol

I get this sentiment and had similar frustrations. I would not go into potential relationships like they are a test though. Some people are into those type of dating games and from I've seen they tend to stay single or have on-off relationships. Just go in with low investment and expectations and try to have fun.

MrDrMan posted...

I dont think society is ever gonna think someone should be guilt tripped into communication.

It's exceedingly dramatic to call it a "guilt trip" when all you're being asked for is an honest statement.

silverpine posted...

there's guys in here passionately arguing that women should always be available to talk

Who's in here saying that?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's exceedingly dramatic to call it a "guilt trip" when all you're being asked for is an honest statement.

Dude Im not saying youre wrong in saying its the wrong thing to do. Thats how it is though. You can either accept it or continue to be disappointed when people dont react in the way you see fit which you have no control over.

Thats my whole point. You cant control that so put energy into something you can control which is how you respond to them. Its not even worth being mad over.

It's not clear communication, but only because it's time based. It's also not clear communication to pile all of the important info at the end of a sentence.

I've been ghosted. It obviously sucks, but every time there's a topic on CE about it you get completely unhinged takes.

Like you can go "the only people who ghost are socially unadjusted" but do you really think "people who ghost" are less socially adjusted than "people who tend to get ghosted"?

MrDrMan posted...

You can either accept it or continue to be disappointed when people dont react in the way you see fit which you have no control over.

I both accept that it's the way some people feel, and also advocate for a little human decency in the dating scene.

I don't get ghosted. I've been in a steady relationship for the past three years and have never tried to date somebody through a dating app/site. I'm not speaking on my own behalf. I'm speaking on behalf of the kind of people who experience serious mental/emotional consequences when it comes to being ghosted.

No goodbye, not even an "it was fun while it lasted, but I don't think we're compatible," just...nothing. Left alone, tossed in the trash, not even worth another glance. I recognize that it's not the fault of the "ghoster" if someone has emotional sensitivity...but one should assume that all people have feelings of some severity or another when it comes to dating and romance.

Isn't it just...better for everyone if we're honest about our feelings? A fair amount of internalized resentment and self-loathing could be prevented if people would stop ghosting each other.

Good god this argument got so much worse. Think people on both sides of this are getting a little nuts. Personally I don't really like the idea of ghosting, but I'm not gonna go out of my way to condemn those who do it. It is obvious why many of them do it. They aren't all horrible human beings with no empathy.

Also, to be blunt, if being ghosted is so traumatic, maybe you aren't in a place to date. It's not that big of a deal. Now I don't mean if it happens in a relationship, that is clearly horrible. I mean that if you get ghosted and have only been messaging or had a simple date, just get over it.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I both accept that it's the way some people feel, and also advocate for a little human decency in the dating scene.

I don't get ghosted. I've been in a steady relationship for the past three years and have never tried to date somebody through a dating app/site. I'm not speaking on my own behalf. I'm speaking on behalf of the kind of people who experience serious mental/emotional consequences when it comes to being ghosted.

No goodbye, not even an "it was fun while it lasted, but I don't think we're compatible," just...nothing. Left alone, tossed in the trash, not even worth another glance. I recognize that it's not the fault of the "ghoster" if someone has emotional sensitivity...but one should assume that all people have feelings of some severity or another when it comes to dating and romance.

Isn't it just...better for everyone if we're honest about our feelings? A fair amount of internalized resentment and self-loathing could be prevented if people would stop ghosting each other.

You are right. It would be better but its just not like that. We didnt create this game. We didnt make the rules. We just inherited it.

If you think about the act of ghosting sure it is morally wrong. Youre leaving someone in the dark and thats not cool but in reality it happens ALL the time. Id bet everyone in this topic no matter which side has been ghosted at least once. I actually gave up on dating apps altogether years ago because I always got ghosted. It wasnt me it was just the nature of the modern dating scene.

Im not gonna say someones a bad person for doing it. Weve come to the conclusion as a society its just ok. It is what it is.

Anteaterking posted...

It's not clear communication, but only because it's time based. It's also not clear communication to pile all of the important info at the end of a sentence.

I've been ghosted. It obviously sucks, but every time there's a topic on CE about it you get completely unhinged takes.

Like you can go "the only people who ghost are socially unadjusted" but do you really think "people who ghost" are less socially adjusted than "people who tend to get ghosted"?

Yeah I do, because I've also been in situations where I'm the rejecter and i never ghost anymore. I remember the first person I ever met off tinder, she said something like "can you just tell me why you're not interested rather than ignoring me because I feel pretty shit". I was rocked by that lol. I remember feeling like "damn, got me there."

And it's stuck with me lol. That was about 6 years ago and I've never ghosted someone I've met in person since. I've had a mutual case of nobody messaging each other after a date, but no ghosting.

Just give a heads up that you're not interested and then block. There, now the person knows that you're not interested AND you don't hear back from them. Easy

It's objectively not "clear" communication, but whether they ghosted you or they lost their phone or they just got busy with life or they got abducted by aliens or they got hit by a truck and reincarnated in a fantasy world, the end result is the same so whatever lol

If someone ghosts you just consider it them filtering themselves for you. If they're not capable of communication then it's gonna come and bite you in the future anyway >_>

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Yeah I do, because I've also been in situations where I'm the rejecter and i never ghost anymore. I remember the first person I ever met off tinder, she said something like "can you just tell me why you're not interested rather than ignoring me because I feel pretty s***". I was rocked by that lol. I remember feeling like "damn, got me there."

And it's stuck with me lol. That was about 6 years ago and I've never ghosted someone I've met in person since. I've had a mutual case of nobody messaging each other after a date, but no ghosting.

I think it's "nicer" to not ghost people, I'm just saying that doing it isn't a sign that you're "socially maladjusted".

Also I think the level of interaction matters too. There are people in this topic who are saying that matching someone alone is enough to entitle them to a "here's why I stopped talking to you". That's crazy talk. That would be like saying a few words to someone at a party and then throwing a fit that they never said anything to you again. This is why people are saying that part of the problem is people getting far too invested in matches.

Anteaterking posted...

I think it's "nicer" to not ghost people, I'm just saying that doing it isn't a sign that you're "socially maladjusted".

Also I think the level of interaction matters too. There are people in this topic who are saying that matching someone alone is enough to entitle them to a "here's why I stopped talking to you". That's crazy talk. That would be like saying a few words to someone at a party and then throwing a fit that they never said anything to you again. This is why people are saying that part of the problem is people getting far too invested in matches.

Okay yeah, my theory is before you've put the time, effort and emotional energy into a date anything goes. 90% of online matches end with someone not replying to the other person eventually, so yeah I have no issue with ghosting til you've met. For me, a line is crossed at that point

Ghosting is 100% immature, but it is communication and shows you that the person isnt worth the effort if they wont put any back

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I don't even know who you are. Don't ghost people, it's rude.

MrDrMan posted...

My half brothers grandmother died last week. He hasnt really spoke to anyone since. Is he an asshole for ceasing communication? Does he owe people explanations? Fuck no.

Why you doing this man? You're trying so hard to villainize me for just making an intial statement that didn't cover every anecdotal experience. Somehow getting to a point where Im now somehow telling your half brother he's an asshole because he was in mourning and probably couldn't think of much else. Which, sorry for the loss, it's never easy. Im sure that girl understood once explained.

But, it doesn't mean you gotta throw me under the bus due to frustrations with anecdotal experiences. You could of just as easily read my post and assumed I would be sympathetic to your brothers situation and my statement wouldn't apply to him. You decided to make me the bad guy without any further investigation.

We all individually choose how the people we pass by and never learn nuance about get perceived. I personally like giving people the benefit of the doubt where I can. Cause, being a lil naive at times is worth the price of feeling more part of the community of humanity to me. It makes for a less suffocating world. Just ask a follow up question and learn if you're initial assumption is accurate or not.

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Okay yeah, my theory is before you've put the time, effort and emotional energy into a date anything goes. 90% of online matches end with someone not replying to the other person eventually, so yeah I have no issue with ghosting til you've met. For me, a line is crossed at that point

I don't get this line of thinking. Why would you wanna be one of those people instead of be better than those people? It's so easy to not be one of those people.

Is ignoring someone clear communication? Probably not I'd say.

Ghosting is the opposite of communication and is childish. Be an adult and just communicate your desire not to be with them

Eh. I can see it both ways since it does rely on being able to read the room and pick up on context clues, and some people just refuse to accept someone no longer wants to talk to them

Lost_All_Senses posted...

I don't get this line of thinking. Why would you wanna be one of those people instead of be better than those people? It's so easy to not be one of those people.

Because as others have said, just matching with someone and exchanging a few messages is nothing. I match with a bunch of people and an actual date happens 10% of the time. It's pretty easy to not get attached or take anything personally before you've spent time with them in person. everything is really low stakes online IMO. Very fair to assume they're just talking to other people and you didn't connect fast enough.

Maybe if you have phone calls with them before meeting and they ghost it's different but I never do that.

Also, where would I draw the line for not ghosting before meeting? A 5 message exchange, a 20 message exchange, 2 days of chatting, 7?

My "don't ghost after meeting, everything before is fair game" works for me and I doubt has resulted in any hurt feelings

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Because as others have said, just matching with someone and exchanging a few messages is nothing. I match with a bunch of people and an actual date happens 10% of the time. It's pretty easy to not get attached or take anything personally before you've spent time with them in person. everything is really low stakes online IMO. Very fair to assume they're just talking to other people and you didn't connect fast enough.

Maybe if you have phone calls with them before meeting and they ghost it's different but I never do that.

Also, where would I draw the line for not ghosting before meeting? A 5 message exchange, a 20 message exchange, 2 days of chatting, 7?

My "don't ghost after meeting, everything before is fair game" works for me and I doubt has resulted in any hurt feelings

It's not hurt feelings as much as an inconvenience and lack of respect for other people's time. And you'd only need one text. Something along the lines of "I hit you up before I started connecting with another girl and Im sorry for any inconvenience, but I want to focus on pursuing her right now. Im not the type to date more than one person at a time"

Hell, lying to them in a chill way is better than straight up ghosting them. I just have a strong priority to not leave people in uncertainty when I can remedy it immediately with ease. But, if it work for you, it is what it is. It's not like the girls you connect with will experience it. So, if you feel no way about it,I doubt it's gonna come back and bite you. Which probably explains why so many people do it

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I also would add to my perspective that women are more justified in ghosting for those reasons. Guys can cry "double standard", but let's not pretend that double standards don't exist just because they don't always work in the favor of people's arguments. Women and men are treated different and women are much more likely to be on the receiving end of dramatically malicious verbal abuse that may also involve physical threats.

So, like you said, givin the context, sometimes you can still be in the right. It goes for some situations with men too, but it's less likely overall that a man would feel vulnerable or be threatened with violence. Partly because women are the choosers, so they can just move on to the next one lol. That's definitely not a justification for the absolutely despicable behavior of men, it's just exactly what it is to me.

There's so much nuance to this conversation you could probably write a whole book to contain it.

I imagine a guy just looks unhinged and pathetic sending a brutal "why are you ignoring me" message. As in he won't come across logical or smart. As long as he doesn't know the girls address and they're not in danger... It'll probably bounce off their back.

Girls are savage when they're scorned. Every variation of "why are you ignoring me" I've received from a girl has been so scarily on the money it cut me to the core. They're mind readers with dating lol

https://twitter.com/shomicita/status/1574289940824850432?s=46&t=mmL9lvm5vaHSzmostucrug

Fuck no and anyone who thinks it is is an asshole.

Since you guys are fucking losers only talking about dating, I'm gonna bring up an entirely different point.

Job interviews.

The same people saying "just take the hint" probably shouldn't be agreeing to ghosting being a thing in job interviews, since a level of professionalism is expected. But it still happens. Doesn't matter if there were hundreds of applicants. A simple automated "you weren't selected" is all that's needed. Getting ghosted after weeks of interviewing sucks.

On the flip side, I've ghosted someone once after they canceled an interview on me one too many times. It felt good, but I was absolutely being an asshole doing so.

It's spineless

Eab1990 posted...

Since you guys are fucking losers only talking about dating, I'm gonna bring up an entirely different point.

Job interviews.

The same people saying "just take the hint" probably shouldn't be agreeing to ghosting being a thing in job interviews, since a level of professionalism is expected. But it still happens. Doesn't matter if there were hundreds of applicants. A simple automated "you weren't selected" is all that's needed. Getting ghosted after weeks of interviewing sucks.

On the flip side, I've ghosted someone once after they canceled an interview on me one too many times. It felt good, but I was absolutely being an asshole doing so.

I know I am a thousand times more liable to be mentally affected by a dating situation going sour then a job interview or workplace issue. Even though I know one involves money and should be more important in the long term, I've just always been able to get another job and land on my feet. It's sad how confident, assertive and most importantly, clear minded I am when I'm being fucked over in a work situation compared to dating lol

So yeah, when I think ghosting my mind goes to dating not anything work related

Eab1990 posted...

Since you guys are fucking losers only talking about dating, I'm gonna bring up an entirely different point.

Job interviews.

The same people saying "just take the hint" probably shouldn't be agreeing to ghosting being a thing in job interviews, since a level of professionalism is expected. But it still happens. Doesn't matter if there were hundreds of applicants. A simple automated "you weren't selected" is all that's needed. Getting ghosted after weeks of interviewing sucks.

On the flip side, I've ghosted someone once after they canceled an interview on me one too many times. It felt good, but I was absolutely being an asshole doing so.

The topic was clearly about dating, so why be condescending?

My problem with the ghosting question is that people cant do a middle ground.

Like Most ghosting is done digitally. Literally state things arent working, and then ghost. That would fix 90% of peoples problems.

Even in that Twitter thread, people say the issue with stating things is that people try to convince them to date still. But people overcorrect entirely and just outright ghost without a word.

Its lazy and weird af to me. Just send a quick I think were done because (insert reason here).

Then ghost if they aint accepting the reason.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

My problem with the ghosting question is that people cant do a middle ground.

Like Most ghosting is done digitally. Literally state things arent working, and then ghost. That would fix 90% of peoples problems.

Even in that Twitter thread, people say the issue with stating things is that people try to convince them to date still. But people overcorrect entirely and just outright ghost without a word.

Its lazy and weird af to me. Just send a quick I think were done because (insert reason here).

Then ghost if they aint accepting the reason.

Yeah, I always figure if they start hurling abuse I can just block. All the hypotheticals based on previous experiences seem unfair to the person who hasn't gotten the chance to respond maturely yet. You're robbing them of a chance to maintain dignity. It might be beneficial for both of you. I've felt really proud after handling a rejection with an "all good :) take care"

I guess sometimes that one single reply they have an opportunity to give to your "it's not working" message can sometimes be vicious. Like I'm assuming gladius has copped vicious abuse and that's why she ghosts, not simply just had someone try to salvage it

Them trying to salvage/convince me or whatever is just like, I dunno, not that scary. Just say sorry my mind is made up. Ghost if they persist, block if you can sense insults coming