Current Events > I feel like the bar for a "good father" is so damn low.

(+) Yeah! (+)

The bar for a good mother is so much higher than the bar for a good father. As a good father, all you have to do is just be with the baby.. change diapers occasionally, feed occasionally, and just be around and BAM!!! Youre a good father. Why is the bar so low?

Sounds pretty interchangeable from the bar for a good mother.

Not true, a good father also has to be a breadwinner.

All matters who you're asking. But overall, yeah, Id say men have it easier. We're not as expected to be as attentive or hands on. So, if we are either of those things, we get praised. But the mothers are expected to be that way and rarely get praise from people close to them for it. Men will point at all these online mother groups and what not and say they're overly supported. But nothing really compares to people you're closest to acknowledging you in positive ways.

I try not to withhold praise from women (or men for that matter). Cause Im not an insecure knob that thinks they need to be "balanced out". Though, sometimes Im just down and not in a positive mood, like anyone else.

Yep. Showing up and participating seem to garner awards and praise. Meanwhile mothers are bombarded with criticism and pressure.

This is bullshit. Society's default position is mothers are better than fathers.

I just stand next to my daughters in public and people constantly walk up and say I must be an amazing dad.

And also don't beat the kid

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TerraSeeker posted...

This is bullshit. Society's default position is mothers are better than fathers.

It's because they aren't leaving their children behind at nearly the rate men are. And if you get into the financial end, you'd just be proving my point by implying a fathers only job is the financial end. They are factually better than fathers when you generalize. Which is exactly why the bar is low. That's how bars work.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

It's because they aren't leaving their children behind at nearly the rate men are. And if you get into the financial end, you'd just be proving my point by implying a fathers only job is the financial end. They are factually better than fathers when you generalize. Which is exactly why the bar is low. That's how bars work.

No, society has just conditioned you to think that a woman putting minimum effort to raise a child equals being a good mother. It should matter how they treat their children.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

It's because they aren't leaving their children behind at nearly the rate men are. And if you get into the financial end, you'd just be proving my point by implying a fathers only job is the financial end. They are factually better than fathers when you generalize. Which is exactly why the bar is low. That's how bars work.

Women don't leave the children behind because it's their meal ticket. trust me a lot of single moms are shit parents and would be better off never being around children in any capacity.

Don't give any of the "mothers are factually Bette than fathers" bullshit. The bar for being a good dad is exactly the same as being a good mother.

TerraSeeker posted...

No, society has just conditioned you to think that a woman putting minimum effort to raise a child equals being a good mother. It should matter how they treat their children.

A woman putting in minimal effort means the mother is the primary care giver, she's the one taking the kid to extracurricular functions, she's the one cooking and cleaning up after the kid, she's the one going to parent-teacher conferences, and she's the one scheduling and taking the kid to doctor's visits.

A man putting in minimal effort means he's at home for dinner.

There's a huge night and day difference between the expectations for the two.

Letron_James posted...

Women don't leave the children behind because it's their meal ticket. trust me a lot of single moms are shit parents and would be better off never being around children in any capacity.

Don't give any of the "mothers are factually Bette than fathers" bullshit. The bar for being a good dad is exactly the same as being a good mother.

Bro you don't constantly hear women complaining about how messed up child support payments are. That's a thing that men complain about. They wouldn't complain about it so much if they tried to take custody of their kids more often.

A_Good_Boy posted...

A woman putting in minimal effort means the mother is the primary care giver, she's the one taking the kid to extracurricular functions, she's the one cooking and cleaning up after the kid, she's the one going to parent-teacher conferences, and she's the one scheduling and taking the kid to doctor's visits.

No, it means the kid isn't starving.

TerraSeeker posted...

No, society has just conditioned you to think that a woman putting minimum effort to raise a child equals being a good mother. It should matter how they treat their children.

Uh. Why would you think I don't care how the mother raises the child? Since you wanna make dumb assumptions on my end, should I just assume you're saying all men are good fathers? Since you decided to only target how women treat kids? Cause, it still balances in womans favor. All you're doing is bring up another aspect that both can be good or bad at. It doesn't really add anything.

Letron_James posted...

Women don't leave the children behind because it's their meal ticket.

Ya'll really think nothing of women >_<. I don't think men are as bad intentioned as you guys think women are. That's the problem here. I don't think either are generally bad intentioned. I just think it's dumb to think someone who picks their responsibility level during pregnancy they might not of wanted is gonna end up just as attached as the person who actually has to have the kid grow inside them and go through forced mood swings. If you guys think that experience does absolutely nothing to shift the likelihood of feeling responsibility.....I don't even know what to tell you.

Either way. I fully appreciate good parents regardless of if they're the mother or father. Pinning then against each other in conversations like this is already kind of gross tbh

IdiotMachine posted...

The bar for a good mother is so much higher than the bar for a good father. As a good father, all you have to do is just be with the baby.. change diapers occasionally, feed occasionally, and just be around and BAM!!! Youre a good father. Why is the bar so low?

Because you're forgetting about the part that isn't at home

lennethsoki posted...

Sounds pretty interchangeable from the bar for a good mother.

Nah man from day one they're being judged if they're breast feeding or bottle feeding.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Nah man from day one they're being judged if they're breast feeding or bottle feeding.

True. I retract all my arguments

Because dudes just ditching their children altogether is pretty normalized.

TerraSeeker posted...

No, it means the kid isn't starving.

Right, cause men aren't even expected to cook.

LordMarshal posted...

Because dudes just ditching their children altogether is pretty normalized.

That's overall the big factor really. Even in the sense of being a single Mom is judged differently than being a single Dad (which obviously has its own downsides due to how society is about it).

Even the concept of burying yourself at work and ignoring your kids is more normalized for men but not for women. It's just different overall.

There is overall more pressure to being a good Mom (assuming you are trying to actually be one and be seen as one). Maternity leave is generally more generous than Paternity leave. There's more Moms groups than Dads groups. There's play groups and activities that are primarily Moms taking their kids. That sort of stuff is so common that people do tend to act like you're great if you bother to show up to these things at all.

When my first daughter was having a tough time sleeping through the night we went to stay at a clinic for a few days to help us find techniques to help her settle for longer. Out of the 6 or so Mothers and babies staying there I was only one out of two Dads who showed up with their partners. I was praised a lot for just being there. It's just different and it's more about how society views each parents role more than what you're actually doing as a parent.

At the end of the day the bar that matters the most are from your own kids. But yeah society is weird overall about it.

Well a lot of guys still fail to meet the bar.

A_Good_Boy posted...

I just stand next to my daughters in public and people constantly walk up and say I must be an amazing dad.

Woa I don't know why I always thought you were a child yourself

Ill do very basic parenting and involvement with my daughter. Even basic shit like help with homework or pick her up from school and people be like "Damn, what a good dad!"

Im even like: for real?

the men who leave/abuse their family is so high that it lowers the bar for men everywhere. you see a video of a man who spends 15 min with his kid and he seems like a hero because it could be so much worse. meanwhile behind the scenes mom was with the kid nonstop for the entire day. it's incredibly normal for dads to not know where the kids go to school, who their doctor is, never feed them, etc because they're just checked out and society is constantly defending that.

silverpine posted...

the men who leave/abuse their family is so high that it lowers the bar for men everywhere. you see a video of a man who spends 15 min with his kid and he seems like a hero because it could be so much worse. meanwhile behind the scenes mom was with the kid nonstop for the entire day. it's incredibly normal for dads to not know where the kids go to school, who their doctor is, never feed them, etc because they're just checked out and society is constantly defending that.

It's pretty easy to defend that when you remember that he's still a dad when not at home.

As a new father, I noticed this btw. Like seriously just BEING with a baby = you must be a good dad!. Its crazy how low the bar is. Meanwhile, I see my wife doing all sorts of shit and nobody praises her. Like she wakes up every 3 hours to pump, and its just accepted she has to do it; nobody asks how shes recovering from the most traumatic moment in her life (giving birth), everyone asks about the cute baby; etc.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Nah man from day one they're being judged if they're breast feeding or bottle feeding.

And this is insane too! If you dont breast feed, youre a bad mom. Like wtf?

Mr_hulk88 posted...

Woa I don't know why I always thought you were a child yourself

Easy mistake, I'm very immature.

My wife told me at work, they judge her for staying late, whereas for me, if I stay late at work, its just being a good financial provider; nobody bats an eye that a new father is staying late at work

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

It's pretty easy to defend that when you remember that he's still a dad when not at home.

He is but it still doesn't change that fathers get praised for doing things that are expected by default from mothers.

To clarify I don't think men that do these things shouldn't be praised. I think mothers should be praised more. It's really hard work! I don't know how single parents do it and single moms are often shamed which is crazy.

IdiotMachine posted...

As a new father, I noticed this btw. Like seriously just BEING with a baby = you must be a good dad!. Its crazy how low the bar is. Meanwhile, I see my wife doing all sorts of shit and nobody praises her. Like she wakes up every 3 hours to pump, and its just accepted she has to do it; nobody asks how shes recovering from the most traumatic moment in her life (giving birth), everyone asks about the cute baby; etc.

My wife had a C-Section and the pure disregard people have for her recovery because they're excited about the baby is freaking insane. We had people showing up less than two hours after she gave birth to our first. She just had a major operation!

I can kinda relate to this. I'm a new father myself and my baby just turned 1 years old and walking. So for fun I take her to a playground after I pick her up from my parents place on fridays (because I work half day remote on that day) and I get compliments all the time from other people. Especially other women there that comment why don't their husbands do the same. I guess it's very uncommon for a father to be doing this kind of stuff for some reason. I mean my dad was doing this kind of stuff for me when I was a kid, so I always thought it was common practice to play with your kids outside lol.

With that said, I think the reason women don't get the same recognition is do to gender roles. It's basically a requirement for women to train and raise up the baby/child so it's common to see a mom with their babies/kids. I mean there's been a huge surge and rise in single mothers taking care of babies, so I can see that playing a role as well. In most cases, especially in divorces, it's usually always the mothers that get custody of the children.

Punished_Blinx posted...

He is but it still doesn't change that fathers get praised for doing things that are expected by default from mothers.

Yes that's because for mothers in a 2-parent household, it's likely that that's her only job.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Yes that's because for mothers in a 2-parent household, it's likely that that's her only job.

Have you reevaluated this observation in the last 20 years? Do you forget everyone isn't middle or high class?

"Likely"....lol.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Yes that's because for mothers in a 2-parent household, it's likely that that's her only job.

Even if she's also a full time worker the expectations are the same.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Even if she's also a full time worker the expectations are the same.

Idk about that.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Idk about that.

I do.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I do.

Idk about that.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Idk about that.

I have kids of my own and I know several other mothers in all different situations and can see for myself they're all viewed from society compared to me.

The expectations placed on mothers and fathers handling parental roles are not equal. Fathers working while mothers stay at home isn't a counter-point against that. Even in the sense that the opposite scenario is something that gets negatively judged.

We have had several fathers in this topic who have also noticed it themselves. It's really obvious when you're in these communities.

Punished_Blinx posted...

The expectations placed on mothers and fathers handling parental roles are not equal.

Of course not, it's expected that the dad works and the mom moms. If a dad works AND moms, people are gonna be impressed.

My wife tells me about the husbands of her friends and a lot are huge pieces of shit. Wont do anything for the kids, no housework.

Punished_Blinx posted...

We have had several fathers in this topic who have also noticed it themselves. It's really obvious when you're in these communities.

Yup.

Whenever my wife describes me to friends and coworkers and tells them I cook meals for the family, I pick my kids up from school, help them with homework, pick up prescriptions from the pharmacist, clean the house, etc etc; they all ask if I have friends or a brother cause apparently that shit is freaking amazing and all of their boyfriends or husband's are apparently huge pieces of shit or something idk.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Yup.

Whenever my wife describes me to friends and coworkers and tells them I cook meals for the family, I pick my kids up from school, help them with homework, pick up prescriptions from the pharmacist, clean the house, etc etc; they all ask if I have friends or a brother cause apparently that shit is freaking amazing and all of their boyfriends or husband's are apparently huge pieces of shit or something idk.

Or they just, you know, work for a living.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Or they just, you know, work for a living.

I work full time for a living, and I still do things that people say makes me a "good father", which to me is the basic-of-the-basics:

• Be with my baby during pediatric visits,
• Feed her and change her diapers,
• Pick up prescriptions,
• Housework (e.g., cleaning the house, cutting grass)

Now I don't cook since I suck at cooking; the wife does that one.

IdiotMachine posted...

I work full time for a living, and I still do things that people say makes me a "good father", which to me is the basic-of-the-basics:
* Be with my baby during pediatric visits,
* Feed her and change her diapers,
* Pick up prescriptions,
* Housework (e.g., cleaning the house, cutting grass)
Now I don't cook since I suck at cooking; the wife does that one.

So...your wife does the cooking and you do everything else. And you're saying the bar for what constitutes a "good dad" is too low

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

So...your wife does the cooking and you do everything else. And you're saying the bar for what constitutes a "good dad" is too low

My wife does the following:

• Full time job,
• Be with the baby during pediatric visits,
• Feed her and change her diapers,
• Pump and produce milk,
• Housework (e.g., laundry, dishwashing)
• Cook

I don't feed my baby 100% of the time nor change her 100% of the time; I probably do these 25% of the time or less.

IdiotMachine posted...

My wife does the following:
* Full time job,
* Be with the baby during pediatric visits,
* Feed her and change her diapers,
* Pump and produce milk,
* Housework (e.g., laundry, dishwashing)
* Cook
I don't feed my baby 100% of the time nor change her 100% of the time; I probably do these 25% of the time or less.

So you do everything and receive praise? What am I missing here? That seems appropriate.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Or they just, you know, work for a living.

I've never worked less than 30 hours. Even when I was part time I was still commuting 40 miles every day for school and still managed to study and cook dinner.

Being a good dad isn't hard, most men are just super shitty at it and make excuses for why they suck. Sorta like how you are now.

A_Good_Boy posted...

I've never worked less than 30 hours. Even when I was part time I was still commuting 40 miles every day for school and still managed to study and cook dinner.

Being a good dad isn't hard, most men are just super shitty at it and make excuses for why they suck. Sorta like how you are now.

I'm not a dad.