Board 8 > Fire Emblem Franchise Playthrough Topic 2 - "Yeah, I like it rough!"

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ranking Fates as one to me makes no sense on any level, two of the parts don't even require you to own one to play the other and the third only requires one of the other two, and there's huge differences in map design, story and general quality across the three. Birthright is a generic Fire Emblem story with mostly pretty generic Awakening style maps, Conquest has much more interesting maps with way more going on to bait you into making mistakes since you'll already be in a poor state of mind from the awful story, and Revelation is an alien experiment on human sanity that drew disturbing conclusions from the fact that some of us have actually played all the way through it.

I thought Conquest was one of the best FE games. But I also try definitely put gameplay over story most of the time for FE.

Yeah ranking Fates together makes no sense at all. They clearly went into the separate "routes" with completely different design philosophies and Three Houses didn't do that at all.

Honestly, I don't get the hype for Conquest. Everyone hates on Revelation for awful, gimmicky maps, but Conquest also has a bunch of awful, gimmicky maps. It honestly seems like Chapter 10 was so good that it convinced everyone that the rest of the maps were good too.

Chapter 10 justifies the existence of Conquest.

Conquest doesn't have many "awful gimmicky maps". Maybe a couple. It has lots of gimmicks, sure, but they're not bad ones. Gimmicky isn't by default bad.

Conquest has numerous awful, gimmicky maps and - perhaps more importantly - only a handful of actually good ones. People give it credit for having better map design than Awakening but that's a low bar, and frankly I'm not even sure it has the best map design of the three Fates routes.

Gimmicky isn't bad by default, no, but a lot of the gimmicks in Conquest were terrible. The pot map, Kitsune lair, and of course, Mr. Fuga's Wild Ride are among the worst maps in the series. The other gimmicks weren't that bad, but they still weren't enjoyable.

Kenri posted...

Conquest has numerous awful, gimmicky maps and - perhaps more importantly - only a handful of actually good ones. People give it credit for having better map design than Awakening but that's a low bar, and frankly I'm not even sure it has the best map design of the three Fates routes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha7HAG6jVqc

The wind map is one of the best maps in the game, you're nuts. The Kitsune map is kinda lame though, yeah. Pots is inoffensive. Not bad and not good.

Kitsune Lair is the only really bad Conquest gimmick map, Fuga's Wild Ride is fine, it happens late enough in the game for you to have the tools to handle it unlike its Revelation counterpart. Revelation gimmicks by and large just boil down to wasting your time with pointless tedium.

I watched some plays of early Revelations and I am just in awe of how horrible that early cave map is.

Like I get what they were going for as a gimmick but....naw.

Yeah I don't remember it at all, TBH. Maybe needed to take Fates off my ranking list for now...and maybe Awakening?? Guess I started this thing with ibky 3H nailed down, huh? Such a casual.

I actually didn't mind the kitsune lair that much. I mean the story was dogshit even for Conquest but as far as map gimmicks go, enemies that are sometimes invincible isn't the most intrusive thing. Preferred it to both wind chapters for sure.

Fates really feels like a FFXII-style situation to me; both reviewed very well with critics on release (I even remember Edge putting Fates in it's top 100 games of all time, the only FE entry on there), but in the following years they seem to get unfairly dunked on over the Internet for being bad, mostly by a loud minority. Both still have their fans willing to sing it's praises (I remember KP surveying the FE subreddit a few years ago and Conquest performing very well on it) and yet if you believed some people you'd think they're series low-points that didn't succeed on any level.

Personally I'm in the boat that rates Fates fairly highly - it has my favourite music in the series, some of my favourite characters and maps, plus I give it credit for being the point where it felt like IS began trying to truly portray Fire Emblem as a triple A series for Nintendo, although the success of Awakening no doubt gave them the confidence to do so. The budget of Fates feels higher and it just has that unquantifiable 'this series is a big deal now' feel to it that goes beyond the obvious '3 games in 1' aspect of it. It laid the groundwork that 3 Houses was later able to capitalise on.

Of course it has it's flaws, perhaps more than most other games in the series, which is maybe where the divide in the fanbase comes from - those who can't forgive and forget and those who don't allow the story etc. to weigh down it's strengths.

Echoes felt more like the "it's AAA now" point to me than Fates. Fates felt more like a evolution of what Awakening was, for better or for worse, rather than a transformation of the series.

And while I did like the music, that's probably one of the few parts of the game I'm actually positive on. The characters were one note even by Fire Emblem standards, and only a few had their one note be something that wasn't absolutely obnoxious. I've already said my piece on the maps, and I feel like it went completely overboard on skills to the point where the game stopped being fun to play. I was glad to see 3H dial it back a bit in that regard.

Just out of curiosity, I went ahead and played map 1 of TearRing. It was certainly an interesting start, primarily in how...NOTdifferent it was. Sure there's apparently some larger focus on terrain here than there is in FE, but otherwise it really just IS FE....with more load times.

I absolutely look forward to playing this game, but I'm think PoR is going to been the first path forward.

TearRing is one of those games I'm happy just reading an LP of, no interest in playing it. But then I said that about FE1 too.

Dark Deity is apparently going to be free on Epic Game Store next week for anyone who's interested. I haven't played it but it's one of the more popular of the recent FE-likes. Pretty sure it's made in SRPG Studio though so expect ugliness and probably some performance issues lol

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Just out of curiosity, I went ahead and played map 1 of TearRing. It was certainly an interesting start, primarily in how...NOTdifferent it was. Sure there's apparently some larger focus on terrain here than there is in FE, but otherwise it really just IS FE....with more load times.

I absolutely look forward to playing this game, but I'm think PoR is going to been the first path forward.

It was originally going to be called Emblem Saga and take place in the same world as the first 5 games, but Nintendo sued so they changed all of that.

Oh yeah I watched the documentary I know all the juicy details lol.

Know nothing about the game but everything about how it was made!

I can't stay away so I'll be starting Path of Radiance tonight lol.

A little slower going since I'll be going back and forth with other games.

1 chapter in, the real chapter of course.

First takeaways:

Yeah I don't remeber this game at all lol.

Why does Ike have 4 Iron swords??

Super Canto how I love you.

Not a fan of how the battle screen doesn't have the combat info!

I think the 4 Iron Swords was some sort of localization glitch.

Yeah Japanese PoR Ike only has 1.

Speaking of weird localization things, both versions (JP and EN) have exclusive difficulty modes. The EN version has an Easy mode which JP doesn't have, and the JP version has Maniac mode, which EN doesn't have. You can get a translation patch for the JP version to play Maniac mode emulated these days.

What's kind of silly about Maniac mode is that it's really very hard. Like, pre-Awakening Lunatic+ it was probably one of the hardest difficulty modes in the series, up there with the likes of Thracia and Shadow Dragon H5. Why is that silly? Because the next hardest mode in PoR, Hard mode, is actually kind of too easy. I'd consider PoR Hard mode about on par with most other games normal modes except Sacred Stones, maybe slightly harder at times.

If they ever remake or do an enhanced port of PoR I really hope they add in a middle ground mode between Hard and Maniac.

Bonus silliness: Radiant Dawn also changed the modes for the EN release... sort of. It has all the same modes as the Japanese version, but only changed the NAMES, so Normal in JP became Easy, Hard in JP became Normal, and Very Hard in JP became Hard. So most people playing both who picked Normal mode thinking it would be, well, a Normal mode thought the game was much, much harder than PoR.

I know the RD fuckery, at least now, what a mess lol

I actually....think now I.....I may not have finished that game because I got frustrated??

IIRC there's a glitch with save file transfer to Radiant Dawn. PoR isn't supposed to have an Easy mode so RD throws a fit if your PoR save file has an easy mode save file.

...I hope the save transfer will work when the time comes. I mean they're both in Dolphin I assume I can only hope.

As far as I know, it only breaks if you have an easy mode save on the memory card you're transferring from. I've heard they released a second version that fixed that bug (and fixed Muarim's description in the glossary), but I don't know that for sure and I'm not sure if your "version" of the game says the version number in the name.

Not much to say on chapter 2 other than Titania is a sponge I will be avoiding at all costs at this time, and there is no universe in which the inevitably recruited Rolf will EVER see combat, what a little nerd.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Titania is a sponge I will be avoiding at all costs at this time

Any particular reason for this?

Because she got 2 exp for a kill lol.

I mean I'm going to use her as soon as she can fight enemies without taking the kill. Right now she's just a thief.

Am entire map of EXP sponges + Ike

At least it's not AS bad for the Armor Knight.

That Green Pegasus just about got herself killed before I got there, though. Titania and Shinon both able to set up kills now, too....if Shinon would stop critting.

Also I thought this game gave out Bonus EXP after every map, am I misremembering that as just a Radiant Dawn thing or is it just not showing it yet?

New trailer for Engage

https://youtu.be/vAdUlQN8MNg

Too tired having just woken up to gather my thoughts, but I did like some of those new character designs from the good guys and disliked some from the villains.

The implication that the evil rings are dark versions of the Heroes and not FE villains is....dissapointing, but we'll see how it goes.

For all the minor hubbub over that tapestry-like image a few months ago showing Ike holding an axe and Lucina with a bow, they're both using swords in that trailer, and Lyn is now using a bow. Looks like heroes might not be locked to a single weapon then?

Oh def, I mean Sigurd starts with a Lance but other footage show the Tyrfing.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also I thought this game gave out Bonus EXP after every map, am I misremembering that as just a Radiant Dawn thing or is it just not showing it yet?

You're remembering right - you just don't start seeing it until you get Base access.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/3/7/AAeolZAAD44t.jpg

Lol gamefaqs compression. Higher res in the link.

https://i.ibb.co/zQ2bCwF/all-the-new-faces-from-the-new-engage-trailer-the-new-v0-n2aw2xgzmb0a1.png

The girl in the very middle of the very first picture is the only design I really have a problem with.

I mean...look at her.

Choco gyaru dancer-looking girl is pretty cute

Going to try and make the lady Armor Knight work even if she's bad.

Make up for FE6 tears.

Man, Shinon is such a little shit.

Soren needs some LEVELS, managed to get him to 3.

Have been in a bad habit of getting fantastic +4 to +6 levelups in stats except the one I want. No strength for Ike, no Speed for Soren.

A shit AND a racist. Can't wait to bench this dude.

I remember Jill is also a racist, but she makes out with the catgirl so alls well that ends well.

I remember this princess is a rad Pegasus Knight with healing staves later, stuff coming back to me in little bits!

UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/3/7/AAeolZAAD44t.jpg

Lol gamefaqs compression. Higher res in the link.

https://i.ibb.co/zQ2bCwF/all-the-new-faces-from-the-new-engage-trailer-the-new-v0-n2aw2xgzmb0a1.png

The girl in the very middle of the very first picture is the only design I really have a problem with.

I mean...look at her.

Top right and middle left are great, not a huge fan of the rest. I think in general the designs of female characters revealed so far have been pretty bad.

Shinon's smart. Train another archer that sucks even more than you do so you aren't at the bottom of the tier list. Because oh boy is he bad when he comes back.

....Biorythm?

Mewtwo59 posted...

Shinon's smart. Train another archer that sucks even more than you do so you aren't at the bottom of the tier list. Because oh boy is he bad when he comes back.

On the other hand he picked a recruitment method that requires you to care enough to field that archer that sucks even more, so maybe he's not so smart after all

That defend chapter was great. Managed to push out and clear the map. Was hoping for a reward but I'll take the Ashera Icon. Loaded up on EXP, though playing the offensive meant Soren got less than he should have maybe, but he still got to 4.8. Boyd cleaned up big time.

The Radiant series has a few stellar defense chapters.

Radiant Dawn has the best map design in the series imo and my favorite map in it (Part 2 Endgame) is a defense chapter.

Honestly if Radiant Dawn had supports and there were some way to fix its weird ass availability issues without screwing over the plot it would be my favorite game in the series.

Sadly because of how the game handles its cast due to how they structured the plot I don't think its super fun to replay all that often because you are essentially forced to use the same units every playthrough until the final 10 chapters or so. (I mean, there is a LITTLE bit of variance, but really not much especially because of how many units just outright suck in that game)

Honestly I never missed the supports in Radiant Dawn as much as some other people. The main story was very extensive, and the character relationships were already established due to Path of Radiance. Also, the base Talk segments > traditional support structure, because the Talk segments can react to the ongoing plot. Other FE games definitely need them (Three Houses without supports is barely a good game) but RD not so much.

Lack of supports in RD doesn't hurt characters like Soren or Elincia, but it definitely hurts characters like Fiona or Vika.