Current Events > So Callisto Protcol is getting mid reception

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-5/the-callisto-protocol

that hasnt really updated. But IGN of all paced gave it a 7. Kotaku tore it apart,

im sad now

Was Kotaku mad because the protag was a cis white male or something?

Most of the reviews seem to be complaining that it's Dead Space

Irony posted...

Most of the reviews seem to be complaining that it's Dead Space

i didnt play dead space cause im not into horror, but i heard dead space is one of the best horrors. so this should be a good thing right

Im not saying it's impossible. But I need better sources/perspectives lol

Irony posted...

Most of the reviews seem to be complaining that it's Dead Space

wasnt that the point of the game to begin with? lol

So Dead Space remake will probably score higher cause its Dead Space, but Callisto Protocol will get average scores and ripped apart because its Dead Space lol

Why was this getting so much hype anyway?

It runs like absolute garbage on PC, so that might be one reason.

LightningAce11 posted...

Why was this getting so much hype anyway?

I think (what appeared) to be good classic AAA horror game, are a rare thing these days

LightningAce11 posted...

Why was this getting so much hype anyway?

because people thought it was Dead Space

That sucks, oh well, I tend to avoid any games with a score of 7 or 8 anyways.

Unknown480 posted...

That sucks, oh well, I tend to avoid any games with a score of 7 or 8 anyways.

You for real?

Argh it looked so good. Lets see the final average, but a 7 is still enjoyable.

7/10 too much horror

Irony posted...

Most of the reviews seem to be complaining that it's Dead Space

The complaints I'm seeing is that it has a surprisingly big focus on melee combat and dodging and that it feels janky and frustrating if you're fighting more than two enemies at a time.

It needs dmc type of combat. Thatd be awesome

Or no combat at all like SOMA i guess . I wouldnt mind either options.

Ratchetrockon posted...

It needs dmc type of combat. Thatd be awesome

Or no combat at all like SOMA i guess . I wouldnt mind either options.

I don't think it's physically possible for me to find a game with DMC's combat scary

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/3/6/AAZsuhAAD8Zs.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/3/7/AAZsuhAAD8Zt.jpg

Games radar. I wonder if Joel would have given callisto a higher score. Too many diff reviewers for the main sites so they lack consistency

Ratchetrockon posted...

Games radar. I wonder if Joel would have given callisto a higher score. Too many diff reviewers for the main sites so they lack consistency

If you actually read the review, the issue isn't that the game is just too hard. It's that the game is hard because the combat system isn't very well designed.

The part about unskippable death animations sounds particularly ass.

The way the combat works should be brilliant you can hold left and right on the left stick to dodge incoming attacks. There's no timing window, you just have to be holding a direction and you'll duck an incoming swipe. Against single enemies it feels great as you duck and dive, dancing around claws and returning blows with a bone-crushing stun baton. The problems, however, are manyfold once multiple enemies come on the scene. Character movement is too slow, as is your ability to look around in a fight, meaning it's hard to make any space between you and danger, or track any threats you're not directly engaged with. So while you can weave between incoming attacks, you're basically standing in the same place, unable to access anything outside of your field of view and ripe for an off-screen sucker punch.

It means death just comes again, and again, and again. The first time you see a death animation it's a fun gory consolation prize. The 12th, 15th time it comes up in a row it's wearing. You can't skip them either, so buckle up for intimately memorizing your character's eyes being gouged out in precise detail.

For almost the entire game, I felt like I had either lucked or cheesed my way through nearly every encounter. I carried an explosive gas canister carefully across an entire level so that I could use it to kill the four enemies that charged me in a small room. I memorized the spawn positions of 16 monsters that appeared during a tram ride so I could whack-a-mole them the second they appeared. Where I couldn't find a trick or exploit, I just replayed bits over and over again. Groundhog Daying encounters to the point where I knew the entire scenario, looping it until all the pieces somehow fell in my favor.

Some of the worst offenders for this have elements that clearly don't work and simply highlight the shortcomings. Like a mini boss that only has insta-kill attacks: on its own it's tough, as you dodge forever, lacking the speed or space to get any safe distance to breath. The second phase, however, adds a second smaller enemy that might be easy to kill but you have to find them first. That means either taking your eye off the main enemy, at which point he kills you, or staying focused on the big threat only to get slapped by the additional enemy and insta-killed by the boss while stunned.

pegusus123456 posted...

If you actually read the review, the issue isn't that the game is just too hard. It's that the game is hard because the combat system isn't very well designed.

The part about unskippable death animations sounds particularly ass.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/4/4/AAZsuhAAD8Z0.jpg

Yes, I did read the review, but that part isn't relevant to the conversation we're having. Maybe he's incorrect and the combat is fine, but the point you were making is wrong. Elden Ring's combat is hard, but it's also well designed. This guy thinks Callisto Protocol's combat is hard because it's badly designed. So there's no issue with those two reviews you posted.

For what it's worth, Polygon's review has similar complaints.

Still, the game has a general sense of sluggishness, a seemingly intentional choice to give Jacob and enemies a sense of weight and impact. Some inputs, though, like quick weapon switching, dont seem to register sometimes, which is a huge problem in difficult encounters.

But even once you do settle more into The Callisto Protocols rhythm, combat scenarios often feel unrefined. Smaller enemies pop up with little to no warning, for instance, locking Jacob into button-mashing quick-time events that drain his health. Monsters also pop up directly behind you, making some encounters feel downright unfair. Dead Space had its monster closet moments that delivered fun, well-earned jump scares but mutant zombies emerging from grates in the floor out of your line of sight? Far less enjoyable, particularly when paired with the games disorienting camera movement. Thats nothing compared to multiple moments where the game throws mobs of enemies at you. These are the worst parts of The Callisto Protocol, where any earned tension snaps and turns immediately into pure aggravation. Multiple difficulty spikes pushed the game past the realm of enjoyable challenge and into that of unfair masochism. I eventually switched to easy mode out of necessity.

The games checkpointing system is also inconsistent. There are frequent checkpoints, thankfully, but they often occur seconds into a boss battle, with no time to heal, reload, or reach a position of safety to recompose.

As does GameSpot's:

Dodging is fairly simple to pull off, though curiously assigned to the same stick used to control Jacob's movement. Not only do you use the left stick on a controller to move Jacob, but pushing it to the left or right as an enemy attacks you is how you dodge in either direction. In one-on-one encounters, this isn't too much of a problem--you're facing the threat at hand and moving or dodging accordingly. But it becomes unmanageable when confronted with larger groups of enemies. When you're surrounded by multiple biophages, turning to keep track of an enemy could cause you to dodge an attack from a different enemy instead, potentially repositioning you into a disadvantageous corner and twisting the camera away from the threat you're trying to track. It doesn't happen every time, but it happens enough to be frustrating, and in a game as difficult as The Callisto Protocol, losing track of your positioning even for a moment can result in taking game-over-inducing damage.

The integrated HUD works against The Callisto Protocol's combat in this regard. Much like Dead Space, The Callisto Protocol doesn't feature a traditional user interface. Instead, Jacob's health is conveyed via the life support system grafted to the back of his neck. And instead of an ammo counter in the bottom corner of the screen, it's displayed as a holographic projection on whichever gun Jacob is holding. In a game like Dead Space where protagonist Isaac Clarke is battling necromorphs from a controlled distance, it's a lot easier to quickly glance at the displays on Isaac's armor and keep an eye on the approaching necromorphs, weighing the situation against your current health and ammo count. It also helps that Isaac doesn't really move when firing any of his weapons, managing to keep all his systems in clear view at all times. But in The Callisto Protocol, Jacob is moving around a lot more, twisting his body as he dodges attacks or swings his stun baton within the throes of close-quarters combat. It's difficult to keep track of your resources because not only is the threat at hand more immediate, the displays detailing the relevant information are moving around more.

If you happen to miss that your health bar has devolved from a healthy green to a flashing red in the midst of a fight, you'll be unaware that the next hit you suffer will likely be your last. On any difficulty, the biophages hit hard and fast. Most of The Callisto Protocol's horror comes from the unskippable death animations you're subjected to when Jacob dies, all of which are gruesome. But after the second or third time one happens, these death animations lose their shock factor and become tedious--and if you're stuck on one difficult combat encounter or challenging boss fight, they're quite frustrating.

Ive never heard of that game

sounds like an indie puzzle game? Not interested

pegusus123456 posted...

Yes, I did read the review, but that part isn't relevant to the conversation we're having. Maybe he's incorrect and the combat is fine, but the point you were making is wrong. Elden Ring's combat is hard, but it's also well designed. This guy thinks Callisto Protocol's combat is hard because it's badly designed. So there's no issue with those two reviews you posted.

For what it's worth, Polygon's review has similar complaints.

As does GameSpot's:

oh wait we've lost track

The only thing that matters is whether Joel Franey would have thought Callisto is badly designed. My main point was a lack of consistency in big review sites because there are over a dozen different reviewers for each one. Tons of people think elden ring has badly designed combat as well fyi at least on forums.

Its the back 4 blood of the dead space series

Ratchetrockon posted...

Tons of people think elden ring has badly designed combat as well fyi at least on forums.

Elden Ring also is a game people knew what to expect from the combat. It would make more sense to if you got it when Demon Souls came out. Not after everyone helped shape your perspective on the 6th sequel lol. Demon Souls didn't take off until the rerelease. Can't remember how it reviewed at the time of release tbf >_>. just saying.

I remember back when a game getting a 7 meant it was a solid, above average game.

The Steam reviews are less forgiving.

MixedRaceBaby posted...

Ive never heard of that game

sounds like an indie puzzle game? Not interested

It's action/survival horror. A Dead Space spiritual successor from the original devs.

EbonTitanium posted...

I remember back when a game getting a 7 meant it was a solid, above average game.

7s are guilty pleasure games for me personally. Give me 8-10s and Ill play. As I get older my patience and attention span lessen.

008Zulu posted...

The Steam reviews are less forgiving.

That's because the critics seem to have played it on consoles. It barely runs on the PC.

Saw on Reddit that some Series X users are having massive overheating issues with the game.

Irony posted...

Most of the reviews seem to be complaining that it's Dead Space

https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/1598677583423578113?t=31RWEqBHXSAxnPgXTZJOEA&s=19

EbonTitanium posted...

I remember back when a game getting a 7 meant it was a solid, above average game.

I dunno this game seems like a modern 7/10 on PS2 kinda game.

Its ranging from 73-80% on Metacritic. Players and reviewers seem to not grasp the dodge mechanic at first but when you get it down it becomes far better. It should have had a NG+ with the stock game but we will have to wait until February before we get that plus a whole lot of other DLCs down the line.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

Elden Ring also is a game people knew what to expect from the combat. It would make more sense to if you got it when Demon Souls came out. Not after everyone helped shape everyone elses perspective on the 6th sequel lol. Demon Souls didn't take off until the rerelease. Can't remember how it reviewed at the time of release tbf >_>. just saying.

but even "hardcore" dark soul players complain about elden ring on online forums. not saying i agree with them tho. I just look at it as a rpg that requires leveling to become OP. I don't agree with the philosophy of souls players that limit themselves by not using certain mechanics and start complaining about it lol. I'm not even talking about co-op or spirit ashes but ashes of war and spells/incantations in particular.

as for callisto protocol. i've seen more footage and the combat looks fine to me. i wouldn't call it fun though but i just don't understand journalists that complain about its difficulty when the easy mode is supposedly fine. reminds me of devil may cry 3 dante's awakening initial reception from gamespot or whatever that took down points for the normal mode being too difficult. i don't find that game hard at all since the enemies are docile af so you can just mash away and just hit the jump button whenever they attack and you'd come out unscathed
-_-.

as for demon souls. it did have a mixed reception in japan because some found it too difficult. word of mouth about it being a hardcore action rpg by the time it hit te west really did help it from sinking. I do agree that a game's clout has a lot of influence on people's opinions, especially on what is considered badly designed or not. I guess for callisto protocol it is not doing anything too different from other games to gain enough influence to sway opinions more positively.

demon soul's
japan reception:
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/02/10/shuhei-yoshida-interview.aspx
https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20160522222939/http:/www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3172516

Alucard188 posted...

https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/1598677583423578113?t=31RWEqBHXSAxnPgXTZJOEA&s=19

She sounds like she hasn't actually played it and merely watch a few vids. It has much much better monster designs. The combat is actually fairly smooth and responsive until you fight multiple enemies then it becomes a fuck up. With the exception of one specific jump scare that was actually good, most of Dead Space's jump scares are vents that may as well have god rays or spotlights on them.

Aside from the performance issues everything the game does that compares to Dead Space is a vast improvement.

Chicken posted...

Its the back 4 blood of the dead space series

LOL facts.

Im watching a streamer play this and he mashes the fuck outta his controller during an encounter with 3-4 enemies. he wins them tho ahaha

also this was the same streamer that got stuck on the draconic tree sentinel in elden ring for like 20+ hours and thought sonic frontiers was too difficult

Apparently the dodge mechanics are kinda broken

https://twitter.com/SophiaNarwitz/status/1598840519140200449

Hope nobody's looking to speedrun this lol

holy shit the streamer just sold all his ammo because he didn't know he was on the "buy" tab. he was on the "sell" tab and thought he was buying ammo. now he is dying a lot because he has to go full melee. wtf

edit: he got more ammo but he is struggling now :'(. his mashing tactics arent working too well i believe he is halfway through the game atm according to other people in the chat

edit: he is taking a break now after dying a lot. he is very frustrated atm. he is eating some type of candy as a coping mechanism (i think it's mike & ikes).

DeathVelvien posted...

https://twitter.com/SophiaNarwitz/status/1598840519140200449

Hope nobody's looking to speedrun this lol

I doubt that'll be enforced. They're literally copy-pasted from PUBG's TOS.

snowy mountain area looks amazing af. holy shit those lightning effects in background

im watching through a 1080p youtube stream too. i wish i had stronger pc to play this with decent performance at 4k

I've played a few hours on PC. The performance is somehow worse than the steam reviews say, it has huge issues with shader caching and dropping frames. I can play GoW 2018 on Ultra at 1440p at 60-80fps and I was getting literally 8-15fps in the intro sequence for Callisto. You can neuter the game a lot in the settings to get it in a playable 30 range, but that's with DX11, almost all post processing off and medium settings or sometimes low -- like shadows.

Atmosphere is good, story is meh, characters aren't very interesting. It doesn't feel like more Dead Space, it felt derivative. I don't have much of a vested interest in the mystery. Combat is just odd. It's clunky. The melee focus sounds appealing but it's not like Condemned. A recent example would be Mortal Shell. Wailing on enemies or combos don't exist. You dodge 1 attack, hit them with one attack, backstep and repeat. Constantly. You can splice in a few shots from a ranged weapon,, but ammo is very limited and it's treated more like an emergency or even finisher. Groups of enemies tend to just chillax and hang in the background while you fight their buddies one at a time. It is possible to be ganged up on, but again you just dodge -> smack -> step out of the way of the 2nd guy -> juggle them like that. Blocking has chip damage and cannot be upgraded, so it feels very sluggish and repetitive. it isn't awful, though, but it's not the $60 AAA horror game to reignite that niche either.

Amnesia: The Bunker will have survival horror with combat, keep an eye on that instead. Rumor mill is that Frictional is going for broke on that title after Amnesia 2 (w/e it was called) sucked huge butt.

The update has made it WAYYYYYYYY better!