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Current Events > James Cameron takes full responsibility for Terminator: Dark Fate

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SamTripoli
12/14/22 9:28:58 PM
#1:


by blaming Ah-nuld and Linda:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/james-cameron-owns-up-to-the-issues-with-terminator-dark-fate/ar-AA15gVzu

...Camerons not blind to reality, and hes willing to accept a setback if it comesalready, he sketches for Deadline possible outcomes for the Avatar series if the second installment doesnt do as well as he thinks. (But I dont like to think in terms of failure, I like to think in terms of success.)

Such was the case for Terminator: Dark Fate, a film that Cameron did not direct but produced and collaborated on the story. Speaking with the outlet, Cameron says hes actually reasonably happy with the film, but hes willing to take some responsibility for the notorious box office bomb. The issue, as he sees it, is hes just too darn loyal.

I think the problem, and Im going to wear this one, is that I refused to do it without Arnold [Schwarzenegger], he explains. [Director] Tim [Miller] didnt want Arnold, but I said, Look, I dont want that. Arnold and I have been friends for 40 years, and I could hear it, and it would go like this: Jim, I cant believe youre making a Terminator movie without me. It just didnt mean that much to me to do it, but I said, If you guys could see your way clear to bringing Arnold back and then, you know, Id be happy to be involved.

He continues, And then Tim wanted Linda. I think what happened is I think the movie could have survived having Linda in it, I think it could have survived having Arnold in it, but when you put Linda and Arnold in it and then, you know, shes 60-something, hes 70-something, all of a sudden it wasnt your Terminator movie, it wasnt even your dads Terminator movie, it was your granddads Terminator movie.

So the real villain was ageism all along, huh? For the record, We loved it, we thought it was cool, you know, that we were making this sort of direct sequel to a movie that came out in 1991, Cameron says. And young moviegoing audiences werent born. They wouldnt even have been born for another 10 years. Thats the kind of timey-wimey explanation that should pair perfectly with the Terminator series, but unfortunately, it doesnt work that way in real life.

Instead, it was just our own myopia, in Camerons opinion. We kind of got a little high on our own supply, and I think thats the lesson there. Luckily, theres no chance of getting high on the Avatar supply. Right? Right?

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GeneralKenobi85
12/14/22 9:31:06 PM
#2:


Arnold was the best part of the movie. Dumb fanservice perhaps, but that's what people want to see.

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Chicken
12/14/22 9:34:43 PM
#3:


I wouldnt have even seen it without arnold so

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SamTripoli
12/14/22 9:35:24 PM
#4:


https://youtu.be/1wheSsBJdsg

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Collat
12/14/22 9:35:31 PM
#5:


I think the problem, and Im going to wear this one, is that I refused to do it without Arnold

That's not the problem. Terminator without Arnold isn't Terminator.
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Irony
12/14/22 9:39:34 PM
#6:


Arnold was literally the only good part of Dark Fate


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Punished_Blinx
12/14/22 9:44:44 PM
#7:


A terminator movie without Arnold is pointless.

The problem was the movie had no new ideas. "What if it wasn't John Connor but instead there was someone else who was John Connor and what if it wasn't Skynet but the exact same thing had a different name" isn't an interesting premise.

Like we are in a much more tech focused world. Why not try something like changing how an AI takeover would be. It's just so creatively bankrupt.

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Tora_Sami
12/14/22 9:45:56 PM
#8:


I didn't watch it and refuse to watch it because they killed off John Connor. Fuck them for that. Should have just left it alone and started a new, maybe just have John and Sarah lead the new person instead of just having Sarah. Arnold still could have been a rogue terminator that got sent back through time.

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FortuneCookie
12/14/22 9:49:02 PM
#9:


It wasn't a bad movie. It was just a bad decision.

Studios need to fuck off with killing off characters that have been around for decades. If an actor wants out, I get it. They can get a hero's death -- and it needs to be one of the best deaths ever filmed. Other than that, leave them be. It's especially bad when a character is killed more or less for political reasons. He has a penis. This is Her Story. He's not welcome to the party.
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Collat
12/14/22 9:50:50 PM
#10:


Irony posted...
Arnold was literally the only good part of Dark Fate
Didn't mind seeing Linda Hamilton back either, but they really don't need to keep making these.

Every time they put out a new one, they end up saying the one before it isn't cannon and this will be the true successor to T2.

Every time.
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JuanCarlos1
12/14/22 9:51:17 PM
#11:


It was still better than genesys, which is still the only movie ive ever fallen asleep watching in theaters

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VFrenchY3K
12/14/22 9:52:03 PM
#12:


JuanCarlos1 posted...
It was still better than genesys, which is still the only movie ive ever fallen asleep watching in theaters

I liked Genesys...Arnold was great in it.
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g0ldie
12/14/22 9:52:57 PM
#13:


John Conner, especially played by Edward Furlong, has always sucked in the movies, so I appreciate that Dark Fate just killed him off and made him not important in the movie.

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DarkBuster22904
12/14/22 9:57:17 PM
#14:


Yes. Arnold and Linda were the problem.

Not the plot. Not the "let's kill John Connor and invalidate the entire first two movies, just to replace it with a new character in the exact same scenario" idea. Cuz, you know, promising a direct sequel to T2 just so you can shit all over T2's legacy in the first ten minutes is totally a great idea.

The problem was totally Linda and Arnold.

Shit like this is why I like to pretend to believe James Cameron died in a tragic diving accident in 1995 while scouting for Titanic.

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Jagr_68
12/14/22 10:03:58 PM
#15:


Whatever you say Jim.

Arnold IS the Terminator IP right down to even his own likeness being canonically used for the T-800 design within the narrative for one specific reason or another.

Characters weren't the problem. How about making a story that wasn't a trashy waste of time...

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JTilly
12/14/22 10:06:22 PM
#16:


James Cameron is out of touch bro

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SamTripoli
12/15/22 2:09:00 AM
#17:


JTilly posted...
James Cameron is out of touch bro


He hasn't made a good movie since True Lies, so I'd agree. What happened to him? lol.

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UnfairRepresent
12/15/22 2:11:53 AM
#18:


SamTripoli posted...
Arnold and I have been friends for 40 years
This is a super bad attitude for a writer/director

Doesn't matter who your friends are. Write and cast who is best for the movie.

LOTR didn't star Peter Jackon's mates from the pub. It stared random actors

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SuperShake666
12/15/22 2:14:26 AM
#19:


Nice try James Cameron, I'm still not paying money for Avatar 2

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Zikten
12/15/22 2:16:57 AM
#20:


Am I the only one who liked it? The only Terminator I don't like is that one set in the future.
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VFrenchY3K
12/15/22 2:18:08 AM
#21:


Zikten posted...
Am I the only one who liked it? The only Terminator I don't like is that one set in the future.

No, you're not. I like all the Terminator films - they are entertaining.
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DeadBankerDream
12/15/22 2:19:12 AM
#22:


The article wording is confusing me. Is James Cameron accusing the audience of ageism for not seeing his shitty movie?

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DrizztLink
12/15/22 2:19:53 AM
#23:


VFrenchY3K posted...
I liked Genesys...Arnold was great in it.
Speaking of fucking over John Connor.

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TomClark
12/15/22 2:20:35 AM
#24:


The problem wasn't Arnold and Linda. The problem was that the film was utter toss.

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VFrenchY3K
12/15/22 2:21:50 AM
#25:


And the actress who played Sarah Connor was absolutely gorgeous in the movie, as well.

The ending fight where John Connor turns into Nanobots and separates himself and starts punching Arnold was awesome
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DeadBankerDream
12/15/22 2:22:31 AM
#26:


TomClark posted...
The problem wasn't Arnold and Linda. The problem was that the film was utter toss.
I don't think you can separate the two. Arnold was fine, but Linda was pretty awful. But that definitely had something to do with the movie being toss.

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TomClark
12/15/22 2:28:05 AM
#27:


DeadBankerDream posted...
I don't think you can separate the two. Arnold was fine, but Linda was pretty awful. But that definitely had something to do with the movie being toss.

Fair.

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g0ldie
12/15/22 3:31:08 AM
#28:


Zikten posted...
Am I the only one who liked it? The only Terminator I don't like is that one set in the future.
yea, I liked it, too.

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Collat
12/15/22 3:47:40 AM
#29:


UnfairRepresent posted...
This is a super bad attitude for a writer/director

Doesn't matter who your friends are. Write and cast who is best for the movie.
...And that's still Arnold.
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iPhone_7
12/15/22 4:31:00 AM
#30:


Dark Fate was good and I was fully expecting it to be s*** like the previous one.

Both Arnold and Linda Hamilton were great in it.

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Lairen
12/15/22 4:55:52 AM
#31:


I liked Genesis. It wasnt good.

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GranQroppoop
12/15/22 5:15:44 AM
#32:


I like it and the only reason I even watched it was because it had Linda Hamilton in it.

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MetroidGamer666
12/15/22 5:17:08 AM
#33:


It didn't do anything new, that was the problem, not the actors.
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Zikten
12/15/22 5:20:33 AM
#34:


MetroidGamer666 posted...
It didn't do anything new, that was the problem, not the actors.
Except it kinda....did

They literally killed John Conner and prevented his destiny

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cjsdowg
12/15/22 5:26:49 AM
#35:


Making T2 pointless kind of did most of that.

Zikten posted... Except it kinda....did

They literally killed John Conner and prevented his destiny

But they had a replacement ready to go. So his destiny didn't even matter. So they did the same story and said the one that we loved for 20 years didn't matter.


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g0ldie
12/15/22 5:37:33 AM
#36:


or it just shows that humanity has an enduring spirit, and doesn't need to rely on one person for hope/people will always find someone new to believe in.

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cjsdowg
12/15/22 5:56:50 AM
#37:


g0ldie posted...
or it just shows that humanity has an enduring spirit, and doesn't need to rely on one person for hope/people will always find someone new to believe in.

Then there is not point in these movies at all. If there is always a replacement. It made T2 worse.

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Foppe
12/15/22 6:12:14 AM
#38:


Terminator have always been about creating new timelines and erasing old ones.
And, surprise, people can be killed.

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Zikten
12/15/22 6:12:39 AM
#39:


The movies have always heen about changing the future. The timeline changes every sequel
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g0ldie
12/15/22 6:12:43 AM
#40:


I disagree.

  1. it was always weird, IMO, that humanity only had one savior.
  2. it had no effect on T2; both series of events exist on different timelines, and who knows, maybe something will happen along the line that might reset things.
edit: at post 37

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cjsdowg
12/15/22 6:19:31 AM
#41:


Foppe posted...
Terminator have always been about creating new timelines and erasing old ones.
And, surprise, people can be killed.

So if John was killed at the start of T2, nothing changes. So that movie was pointless.

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g0ldie
12/15/22 6:23:13 AM
#42:


if John was killed in the beginning of T2, the series of events would change.

as long as the story is interesting, the story wouldn't be pointless, it would just be different.

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Lairen
12/15/22 6:38:31 AM
#43:


There will always be a terminator and savior. Doesnt matter how many saviors you kill or terminators you send. All the movies are the same and mean nothing.

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Foppe
12/15/22 6:44:50 AM
#44:


cjsdowg posted...
So if John was killed at the start of T2, nothing changes. So that movie was pointless.
It would still be a war, but the war would be different. Skynet would either dominate or a different savior would lead the Resistance. Either more or less sucessful.

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alphagamble
12/15/22 6:57:50 AM
#45:


Genisys > Dark Fate

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Lairen
12/15/22 7:04:59 AM
#46:


alphagamble posted...
Genisys > Dark Fate

I think he was the only "funny" arnold terminator. And i liked him at the end when he was upgraded

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ffmasterjose
12/15/22 7:26:42 AM
#47:


I totally believe that James Cameron helped a bit with the story since Dark Fate is just a worse re-telling of T2. Feels way less compelling and VERY bland.
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Garioshi
12/15/22 7:43:30 AM
#48:


I liked it a lot :)

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VFrenchY3K
12/15/22 9:29:26 AM
#49:


cjsdowg posted...
Then there is not point in these movies at all. If there is always a replacement. It made T2 worse.
The point is to entertainit is an action film.

chill
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Ruvan22
12/15/22 12:55:20 PM
#50:


Punished_Blinx posted...
A terminator movie without Arnold is pointless.

The problem was the movie had no new ideas. "What if it wasn't John Connor but instead there was someone else who was John Connor and what if it wasn't Skynet but the exact same thing had a different name" isn't an interesting premise.

Like we are in a much more tech focused world. Why not try something like changing how an AI takeover would be. It's just so creatively bankrupt.

This is how I felt too - I love the humanity will always endure theme in almost any fiction, but yeah.. this wasn't a good way of expressing it

VFrenchY3K posted...
No, you're not. I like all the Terminator films - they are entertaining.

Same here - I've never felt regret for watching one, though all had things that were off for lack of a better word:
T3 Felt it invalidated the whole "no fate but what we make" message of T2
Salvation Loved the trailer for this movie and seeing some of the different robot/machine designs in the future.. though I wished they had capitalize on Connor's "this isn't the future my mother warned me about" to show a third faction.. whether they became allies or another antagonist wouldn't matter as I love "unintended consequences" Plus I thought Bale made an awesome Connor and it was neat seeing how he got his scar you see for a bit at the beginning of T2
Genisys Was also intrigued by the trailer and the jumping around in timeline.. even 'killing' off Connor was interesting as it felt as the hybrid's dialogue suggested becoming it's own entity separate from Skynet but still an antagonist (like Agent Smith in the last Matrix). The movie did too many call backs for my taste though..
DF As stated by others, had a bit too much of retreading old plot though my biggest issue was just feeling .. bleak after the end? Strange criticism of a Terminator movie I know...
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