Board 8 > ~BAKE!!!~ Can Raiden (MGR) bake a Delicious Cake?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Raiden has been challenged to bake a delicious cake! Location of the bake: The Kitchen - A neutral, nondescript kitchen, with all the ingredients required to make any and all cakes, but bare of any instructions as how to make them. CAN THE MERCENARY BAKE A DELICIOUS CAKE UNDER THESE ADVERSE CONDITIONS??

Guidelines
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.
- The mercenary has six hours to bake a cake that a hypothetical average human bystander would find delicious. They may make as many attempts as they like, so long as they do not exceed the time limit.

Rules for Voting
- Bold your votes.
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 2 hours or 7 votes, whichever is later, and last a maximum of 6 hours.

Raiden is as seen in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance with access to all of his weapons (save the Fox Blade) and upgrades available in that game, including the Murasama blade, as well as a full complement of grenades and stinger missiles.

I know what you're thinking right now, looking at this topic. "What a quaint little scenario. Why is this being debated? It's just baking a cake. How hard could it possibly be?". And it's not a terribly unreasonable question to ask. It's something normal people do every day. So, how hard is it, really? The answer to that is:

NIGHTMARISH

Many culinary fields allow for easy experimentation and deviation without much penalty. Baking is not one of those. It is regulated, precise, mathematical. Small imprecisions compound quickly to ruin baking attempts, and realizing something has gone wrong wastes lots of time and effort. Have you ever seen something like The Great British Bake-Off, perhaps (or any of its variants)? If so, then you know just how quickly things can go sideways over small mistakes. And this happens to professionals, people who've practiced the craft and mastered it over a period of years. They were taught, tutored, and given many chances to try and fail while learning, plus were working with recipes to guide them. Raiden has none of these things. In fact, he has little experience with anything resembling a normal person's life at all.

I believe that, at this point, it's pertinent to recount his life history: Raiden was a Liberian child soldier, taught to fight and kill from the age of six, then kept on the battlefield until the Liberian Civil War ended. After that he spent several years in counseling, then was released to a foster family when he seemed stable. Once he was old enough, he joined the military and met his wife, Rose -- and when Rose snuck into his room after repeatedly being rebuffed from getting too close to Raiden, all she saw was a bed and desk. Raiden's life was so empty, prior to the events of Metal Gear Solid 2, that he lacked anything resembling a sense of normalcy, such as books from which to learn how to bake. After, he kept on fighting the patriots, then was captured and turned into a cyborg ninja, his human body replaced with an exoskeleton from the lower jaw down. Even though he later got a more humanized replacement body, it wasn't, and still isn't, enough to allow him to lead a normal life. A quote from MGR's codec calls should serve as good illustration (since many of the conversations with her savegame recorder Courtney involve food chats):

Raiden: ...Never mind. Probably can't "capture" any food down here anyway - not that I'd need to. My muscles run on fuel cells. And I've got enough blood sugar to keep my brain running for another week.

Would a man who's never had anything resembling a normal life, who doesn't even have a human body, who's never had the time nor inclination towards baking be able to bake a delicious cake, given how difficult it is? The answer is clearly no. He's simply not prepared. For Raiden, his baking career starts...and ends...here.

PS: I'm sure some of you may be unconvinced as to the difficulty of baking. Seeing is believing, goes the saying. So for that reason, I'm just going to link an illustrated explanatory post that demonstrates how you can fail to bake correctly at the preparatory stage, before you even actually get down to baking anything, and how much time this can lose you: https://qr.ae/prCUNK

That is all, my friends. I hope your evening is filled with delicious cake IRL. Lord knows Raiden's won't be.

I'll keep it simple.

Raiden has no know-how of cooking, let alone baking. On his own merit, he would be SOL.

However:

https://youtu.be/U5DIddYUWUE?t=139

He clearly has easy access to tons of virtual monitors as part of his hardware and can connect to webpages from just about anywhere.

He's also at least clever enough to figure out which ideas would be best with what he has on hand. Combine that with unmatched hand-eye coordination to follow recipes exactly, and one yummy cake, coming right up.

Apparently you'll have to click the link. Go to 2:19 if the timestamp doesn't work.

Very simple argument, huh. Unfortunately, terrain rules are clear. The kitchen is bare of any instructions as to how to make a cake. That includes online ones. Presumably, it has no interent connection~!

Can i say how much I love the idea of Binging With Babbish or something being the crux of Raiden's continued survival?

You say that, but he gets internet connection in BFE, so I'm not buying that. He doesn't need a wifi router.

Only Bad Cakes Made Here.

Even if Raiden had the access to Codec, his training, the fact that he's a cyborg (so taste might be lacking), the lightning issues, and the like. I would not trust his skills on cooking.

ZeeksFire posted...

the fact that he's a cyborg (so taste might be lacking),

this was my immediate thought

Given that that cutscene takes place in a military base, the idea that there wouldn't be reception there is fairly nonsensical. Who would ever expect a military base to not have an internet line? The kitchen is another matter entirely, tbqh. It's not part of a highly technified world, and explicitly notes that there are no instructions to be found. I admire the attempt to cheese, but the rules are the rules!

Dante posted...

this was my immediate thought

To build on this BTW, Raiden explicitly has no tastebuds in his combat form. He makes remarks in the food convos of MGR about how he needs to swap to his civilian frame to enjoy relaxation and food. A combat frame, for obvious reasons, lacks taste receptors -- they're worthless in battle.

Courtney: Well, it's basically a boiled duck's egg... But the embryo's fertilized, so there's this... duck-like... thing inside... I've tried a lot of odd foods in my time. But that's where I drew the line.
Raiden: Don't be so picky, Courtney. Maybe it tastes better than it looks?
Courtney: Okay, how about you try it first, then?
Raiden: Sure. Once I'm done here, we'll all have to go out for it together.
Courtney: Deal! You'd better make it back and keep that promise, Raiden. I'll... watch you eat it, at least.
Raiden: Wimp. I am looking forward to ending this, though. Wouldn't mind getting my jaw back. Would be a little hard to eat normal food without it, you know?
Courtney: You could always use a straw.

In case there's any doubt about my statements, BTW. Nonfunctional jaw confirmed.

My man, you are giving bombed-out Pakistani places far too much credit on connectivity. The only cheese here is the cream cheese frosting he'll be applying to the finished product.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/2/0/AAcMtoAAEGlA.jpg

I'd also like to point out that he has six hours. Even if his first attempt or two flops, he has plenty of tries.

trdl23 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/2/0/AAcMtoAAEGlA.jpg

I'd also like to point out that he has six hours. Even if his first attempt or two flops, he has plenty of tries.

How many times is he going to try to taste a cake and remember 'ah shit ah fuck, I can't know if my cake is good or not'? In effect, Raiden doesn't have multiple attempts -- he has one, his last one before he commits to being judged.

i think i have to vote FAILURE

key points

- I do not believe Raiden has functioning taste buds, so he won't know to try again if his cake is a FAILURE
- i don't think Raiden knows how to bake a cake, so would need instructions
- if he could google, he needs to find a recipe he can decipher, and luck into it having every step, made for dum babies who can't cook
- i am a dum baby who can't cook, so I tried this. I googled "how to bake a delicious cake". I looked through the top recipe, and got to "cream butter". I don't know how you cream butter
- yes I just equated my own cooking ability to raidens

addendum to the above - the reason he needs one web page is because if he tries to consolidate multiple sources, he is fucked since there are so many different ways to make cakes and so many types

Posted on discord, courtesy of user Mistaya:

A CAKE THAT LOOKS PERFECT BUT TASTES LIKE CEMENT

Giving Raiden the benefit of the doubt that he can follow a recipe that was posted online, and that he can get robot wi-fi to work, it still isn't enough because of three reasons: The first is that Raiden has no sense of taste in his combat frame which means he can make a cake that looks great but he cannot taste test his own creation. The second is that online recipes always have caveats about your kitchen hardware, especially about your oven. Ovens come in lots of different sizes and shapes and each one will cook at a slightly different speed even when set to the same temperature. Which means trial and error. He has six hours BUT- this is where the third reason comes in. If you know nothing about the world of online recipes, let me inform you that recipes are Culture, not just lists of ingredients. In order to get to a real delicious cake recipe, Raiden will have to read several thousand words of family history and cultural biography for each recipe he decides to try. This will cost him valuable time, and in the end, I just don't think he's got it. I will add that Raiden would be very good at cutting his flavorless cake, but alas, no one would want to eat it.

I'm kinda not convinced Raiden would be unable to load instructions through his own advanced, futuristic network connection that has zero issue connecting him directly to all the information he might need from weird places like the sewers of Mexico, a desolate middle east warzone, or low orbit inside a shuttle.

Re-reading the terrain, a "neutral, non-descript kitchen" doesn't convince me that it has the ability to block his advanced internal signal, in the same way that my own regular modern day cell phone can connect to the internet and play at least 144p Youtube videos from most places. Raiden's also been shown to rapidly turn on live feeds of international news networks with no buffering or technical troubles from anywhere.

He might not have baking experience, but speaking anecdotally, neither did I when I baked my first cake, and the four people in my household at the time enjoyed it. It's not that hard with clear instructions, which I got solely from the internet.

Another thing that comes to mind for me is that just about any average joe will tell you free food is delicious, I feel the onus here is to create a cake that someone would call delicious, random people do not have refined palates and would be more than OK with something even if it were slightly dry if it had any amount of sweetener, frosting, et cetera on there. The mission is not "make the greatest cake of all time", but create a cake that appeals to a rando.

Even without taste receptors I kinda think he can follow video instructions, overcome the odds, and Bake an acceptably delicious cake. Though it would be kinda hard for him, I don't think someone with his level of information gathering abilities and sheer concentration could screw up this task.

By the way, regarding the "can't taste anything so how is he going to know if its good" argument, couldn't he just make multiple cakes regardless with the six entire hours he has, and if any one of them is acceptable, he wins? Is there an explicit rule for just making more than one cake?

as a former raiden owner i don't believe he has network connectivity

no delicious cake

Accel_R8 posted...

By the way, regarding the "can't taste anything so how is he going to know if its good" argument, couldn't he just make multiple cakes regardless with the six entire hours he has, and if any one of them is acceptable, he wins? Is there an explicit rule for just making more than one cake?

I believe this is valid actually, yeah

I'm not sure he would do this (there are a LOT of variables to change) but I think he could

I think the lack of taste receptors means no.

when did he lose his sense of taste

Accel_R8 posted...

By the way, regarding the "can't taste anything so how is he going to know if its good" argument, couldn't he just make multiple cakes regardless with the six entire hours he has, and if any one of them is acceptable, he wins? Is there an explicit rule for just making more than one cake?

This is completely valid, yes. If you think he'd bake multiple cakes then that's an option. The question is, would he? He doesn't know anything about baking, after all, so might think the taste test is unnecessary.

If its a matter of survival and he has a ton of leftover time with nothing else to do but maybe push his mission success probability up, I don't see why he wouldn't? He isn't really known for half-assing things.

NFUN posted...

when did he lose his sense of taste

When he changes into the upgraded battle body in MGR. I posted a quote above concerning this. Since it's very battle-optimized, it's flat unsuited for eating.

I am unconvinced that Revengeance Raiden ends up not preheating the oven, being terribly upset that his cake turned out poorly to start with, and then destroying the oven. Like MGS2 Raiden? Rational person. MGS4 Raiden? Horribly depressed, would probably cry into the cake, but would try again. Revengeance Raiden post full "let 'er rip"? I don't know if he gives himself more than one go without growing cartoonishly upset that he's got an uncooked center.

Kamekguy posted...

I am unconvinced that Revengeance Raiden ends up not preheating the oven, being terribly upset that his cake turned out poorly to start with, and then destroying the oven. Like MGS2 Raiden? Rational person. MGS4 Raiden? Horribly depressed, would probably cry into the cake, but would try again. Revengeance Raiden post full "let 'er rip"? I don't know if he gives himself more than one go without growing cartoonishly upset that he's got an uncooked center.

Raiden realizing what a herculean task he has ahead of him:

https://media.tenor.com/TgsX2idxuV0AAAAC/time-for-jack-to-let-er-rip-jack.gif

I don't see MGR Raiden as berserk literally 24/7, he has scenes of being rational after the "let er rip" bit, its just that a majority of that game has you fighting child abducting superterrorists and he's just sick to death of them. Like, he interacts with Sunny, a child, without issue.

Also, doesn't the personality change also correspond to a game mechanic that you actively toggle on/off? Implying he's not literally a hothead that is actively destructive to his environment all the time.

Although the mental image is pretty hilarious!

Accel_R8 posted...

I don't see MGR Raiden as berserk literally 24/7, he has scenes of being rational after the "let er rip" bit, its just that a majority of that game has you fighting child abducting superterrorists and he's just sick to death of them. Like, he interacts with Sunny, a child, without issue.

Also, doesn't the personality change also correspond to a game mechanic that you actively toggle on/off? Implying he's not literally a hothead that is actively destructive to his environment all the time.

Not quite. The gameplay corresponds to Raiden turning off his pain inhibitors, but his mentality switch is persistent once he's done getting broken down by Monsoon. There's multiple codec conversations after where you can hear he's still in Jack the Ripper mode, across every chapter. I think one of them even has him talking about Sunny and noting how alienated he feels from her? It's also implied that's why he leaves for parts unknown in the epilogue -- because he feels like he doesn't belong in normal society anymore after 'awakening' to his old persona.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

How many times is he going to try to taste a cake and remember 'ah shit ah fuck, I can't know if my cake is good or not'? In effect, Raiden doesn't have multiple attempts -- he has one, his last one before he commits to being judged.

This train of logic is dependant on Raiden being the type of person who would be given 6 hours for a task, assume that the first attempt was good enough, and then spend the next 5 hours sitting around. Nowhere does it say he has to choose which attempt gets submitted based on his own personal judgment, so as long as he continues to attempt perfecting the technique, he'd arguably still pass as long as any one of his attempts is delicious

that being said I don't even know if I know how to bake a cake without it specifically being a box of funfetti or something

Johnbobb posted...

that being said I don't even know if I know how to bake a cake without it specifically being a box of funfetti or something

I promise you don't. Not unless you have inbuilt cyborg internet to look stuff up.

Thankfully...!

I'm pretty sure he couldn't. Didn't he struggle to make eggs in mgs4

Or was that sunny I forget

The best argument for Raiden being able to manage here is that he lived with Rose and Rose is canonically a terrible cook to the point where Raiden prefers the taste of rations to her cooking.

I feel like to avoid having to eat her cooking he probably dabbled in the culinary arts himself. It seems like a good practical solution. I'm going to give him the benefit of a doubt here and say he could manage something.

Can make cake

after careful consideration ive decided that raiden could make a cake but it wouldnt be delicious

Sir, Raiden lived in NYC

Man 100% dined out instead of making food

I feel like that's more likely to cause fights than offering to cook yourself.

After having to listen to all those codes between Raiden and Rose, I get the impression that they fought over stuff like that all the time.

Whether or not he can taste is absolutely irrelevant. Baking is just chemistry you eat. Some professionals will literally use boxed mixes because the notion of "cake" has an actual scientific answer to it, and 100 years of experience making a simple chocolate cake gives you a product that tastes virtually the same as Betty Crocker. If he can get the instructions and follow them, he can make a delicious cake. Since the rules say no instructions are available but he does get all of his tech, he can bake a pretty cake, and it'll be delicious

I'm too late to vote but I probably would vote for

Dude has access to codecs and shit, he bakes