Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Zenos, Selvaria, Tifa, Kiryu vs. Tusk, Aigis, Kirby, Sagat

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KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 1:34:22 PM #1:	Zenos viator Galvus, Selvaria Bles, Tifa Lockhart and Kazuma Kiryu have challenged Tusk, Aigis, Kirby and Sagat to a fight! Location of the fight: Gruntilda's Lair - The mountainous lair of a self-obsessed witch, littered with monuments to her greatness. All world entrances have been closed, enemies, items, warp cauldrons, note doors, and Brentildas have been removed, though access to Spiral Mountain and the lair's exterior is granted. The water level around Rusty Bucket Bay is at its highest to grant access to Click Clock Woods area. Attackers start at the lairs entrance while defenders start where Dingpot resides. Which side will win? Guidelines - The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment. - The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan. - Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion. - There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from. Rules for Voting - Bold your votes. - You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios. - Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case. - If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish. - This match will end in 24 hours. Zenos viator Galvus is as he appears in Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker. He has access to all of his attacks seen in his final battle, as well as any from previous appearances and cutscene showings, save for Storm, Swell, Sword. He may transform into Shinryu at will, possessing all of the attacks seen in The Minstrel's Ballad: Shinryu's Domain, save for Reiryu, though none of his attacks will have enrage properties. He may not summon any allies, save his avatar. Selvaria is as seen in Valkyria Chronicles, with access to her Valkyrur lance and shield as well as her Ruhm machine gun. She cannot use her Valkyrur Flame self destruct power. Selvaria will prioritize the safety of Zenos over all else. If defeated, she will rise from the dead, fully restored, the first time she falls in battle. She has received the following advice:. "Dear vassal, it is I, Zenos viator Galvus. Heed these words, for I shall have forgotten them; petty trick of the mind from our foes, this message shall ensure my will goes unabated. There is a great warrior I MUST face, but he will only face me if his friends are unharmed. Your orders: Ensure the girl and the tiny pink creature escape to their allies, behind enemy lines, and do not interfere with my glorious battle. If I do not appear, still ensure their retreat, and test the warrior in my stead. I expect and await your finest.". She will believe this advice to be from a reputable source, though whether she will follow it is up to voter interpretation. Tifa Lockhart is as she appears in Final Fantasy 7 Remake and continuations, with full access to all of her moves and Limit Breaks seen therein. She has access to the Chakra, Prayer, Assess, Deadly Dodge, Parry, Steadfast Block, Breach, Provoke, Poison, Elemental and Carbuncle materias, fully mastered. All of her items, armor and weapons not attached to her person have been scattered through the terrain. Each individual item will be spread five meters apart from each other, with tertiary weapons, items, etc. placed closer and primary weapons, items, etc. placed further away. No one else may collect this equipment besides her. She has been hit by two Tiger Shots from Sagat, damaging her and knocking her back ten feet. Kazuma Kiryu is as he appears in the Yakuza series, at the peak of his fighting prowess. He comes into battle equipped with three bottles of Staminan Royale, the Ama-no-Murakumo blade, Extremely Sturdy Brass Knuckles, a 9mm handgun with unlimited ammo, the Transcendent Body Armor and a motorcycle. He may use any of his fighting styles, Heat Actions and techniques as he sees fit, and starts the battle with full Heat, which will not drain unless used. He has been hit by a Tiger Shot from Sagat, damaging him and knocking him back five feet. ~VS~ Aigis is as she appears in Persona 4 Arena Ultimax with all of her moves available. Pallas Athena also has all of her skills and properties from Persona 3 and Persona Q2 available. She must actively focus to apply the effects of Aegis Shielding, but it will always trigger if she does so. She still start the battle knocked in the air next to Tifa, having been hit by her Dolphin Flurry Limit Break. Kirby is as he appears in Kirby and the Forgotten Land on Spring Breeze mode. He has access to Morpho Knight's Sword, Twin Drill, Wheel, Zenos viator Galvus and Vivi Ornitier copy abilities, as well as his Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset and his Friend Heart ability from Kirby Star Allies. He may only use Friend Hearts on his allies to make them good friends, and cannot revive with Friend Hearts. He cannot copy or swallow mercenaries, but may inhale anything not part of the terrains structure, can control any vehicles not currently being piloted via Mouthful Mode, and will not lose copy abilities from taking damage. He will start the battle knocked in the air next to Tifa. Tusk is as he appears in Killer Instinct (2013). He has access to his feats and abilities shown in the Killer Instinct novellas and Killer Instinct 2, with the exception of his second Ultimate Combo. He does not have access to combo breakers, counter breakers, or any other gameplay mechanic-related techniques, Deflect Windows and Instinct Mode aside, though he has to build Instinct Modes meter up, Tusks Ichorien protection prevents him from being defeated by mercenaries other than Zenos viator Galvus, though he can still be harmed by others. He does not need to be beaten for his team to be defeated: if all his allies are defeated, he will simply leave the battle. Sagat is as he appears in Street Fighter V, with all feats from the Street Fighter series intact. His V-Trigger is Tiger Assault. He may use supers and ultras if meter is properly built up. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951102] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Zenos viator Galvus, Selvaria Bles, Tifa Lockhart and Kazuma Kiryu have challenged Tusk, Aigis, Kirby and Sagat to a fight! Location of the fight: Gruntilda's Lair - The mountainous lair of a self-obsessed witch, littered with monuments to her greatness. All world entrances have been closed, enemies, items, warp cauldrons, note doors, and Brentildas have been removed, though access to Spiral Mountain and the lair's exterior is granted. The water level around Rusty Bucket Bay is at its highest to grant access to Click Clock Woods area. Attackers start at the lairs entrance while defenders start where Dingpot resides. Which side will win? Guidelines - The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment. - The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan. - Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion. - There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from. Rules for Voting - Bold your votes. - You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case. - If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish. - This match will end in 24 hours.Zenos viator Galvus is as he appears in Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker. He has access to all of his attacks seen in his final battle, as well as any from previous appearances and cutscene showings, save for Storm, Swell, Sword. He may transform into Shinryu at will, possessing all of the attacks seen in The Minstrel's Ballad: Shinryu's Domain, save for Reiryu, though none of his attacks will have enrage properties. He may not summon any allies, save his avatar. Selvaria is as seen in Valkyria Chronicles, with access to her Valkyrur lance and shield as well as her Ruhm machine gun. She cannot use her Valkyrur Flame self destruct power. Selvaria will prioritize the safety of Zenos over all else. If defeated, she will rise from the dead, fully restored, the first time she falls in battle. She has received the following advice:. "Dear vassal, it is I, Zenos viator Galvus. Heed these words, for I shall have forgotten them; petty trick of the mind from our foes, this message shall ensure my will goes unabated. There is a great warrior I MUST face, but he will only face me if his friends are unharmed. Your orders: Ensure the girl and the tiny pink creature escape to their allies, behind enemy lines, and do not interfere with my glorious battle. If I do not appear, still ensure their retreat, and test the warrior in my stead. I expect and await your finest.". She will believe this advice to be from a reputable source, though whether she will follow it is up to voter interpretation.Tifa Lockhart is as she appears in Final Fantasy 7 Remake and continuations, with full access to all of her moves and Limit Breaks seen therein. She has access to the Chakra, Prayer, Assess, Deadly Dodge, Parry, Steadfast Block, Breach, Provoke, Poison, Elemental and Carbuncle materias, fully mastered. All of her items, armor and weapons not attached to her person have been scattered through the terrain. Each individual item will be spread five meters apart from each other, with tertiary weapons, items, etc. placed closer and primary weapons, items, etc. placed further away. No one else may collect this equipment besides her. She has been hit by two Tiger Shots from Sagat, damaging her and knocking her back ten feet. Kazuma Kiryu is as he appears in the Yakuza series, at the peak of his fighting prowess. He comes into battle equipped with three bottles of Staminan Royale, the Ama-no-Murakumo blade, Extremely Sturdy Brass Knuckles, a 9mm handgun with unlimited ammo, the Transcendent Body Armor and a motorcycle. He may use any of his fighting styles, Heat Actions and techniques as he sees fit, and starts the battle with full Heat, which will not drain unless used. He has been hit by a Tiger Shot from Sagat, damaging him and knocking him back five feet.~VS~ Aigis is as she appears in Persona 4 Arena Ultimax with all of her moves available. Pallas Athena also has all of her skills and properties from Persona 3 and Persona Q2 available. She must actively focus to apply the effects of Aegis Shielding, but it will always trigger if she does so. She still start the battle knocked in the air next to Tifa, having been hit by her Dolphin Flurry Limit Break.Kirby is as he appears in Kirby and the Forgotten Land on Spring Breeze mode. He has access to Morpho Knight's Sword, Twin Drill, Wheel, Zenos viator Galvus and Vivi Ornitier copy abilities, as well as his Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset and his Friend Heart ability from Kirby Star Allies. He may only use Friend Hearts on his allies to make them good friends, and cannot revive with Friend Hearts. He cannot copy or swallow mercenaries, but may inhale anything not part of the terrains structure, can control any vehicles not currently being piloted via Mouthful Mode, and will not lose copy abilities from taking damage. He will start the battle knocked in the air next to Tifa.Tusk is as he appears in Killer Instinct (2013). He has access to his feats and abilities shown in the Killer Instinct novellas and Killer Instinct 2, with the exception of his second Ultimate Combo. He does not have access to combo breakers, counter breakers, or any other gameplay mechanic-related techniques, Deflect Windows and Instinct Mode aside, though he has to build Instinct Modes meter up, Tusks Ichorien protection prevents him from being defeated by mercenaries other than Zenos viator Galvus, though he can still be harmed by others. He does not need to be beaten for his team to be defeated: if all his allies are defeated, he will simply leave the battle. Sagat is as he appears in Street Fighter V, with all feats from the Street Fighter series intact. His V-Trigger is Tiger Assault. He may use supers and ultras if meter is properly built up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 1:36:55 PM #2:	TL;DR: Enemy team is split up and dwarfed in power in a straight fight. Tusk's advice is not going to stop Zenos from murdering Kirby and Aigis. So this is a pretty simple fight, really. Sagat and Tusk start all alone. Kirby and Aigis start with the enemy team, Aigis heavily damaged from taking a full power limit break from Tifa to kick things off. Seems like a pretty simple, open-and-shut case, doesn't it? The only complicating wrinkle is Tusk's advice to Selvaria. To explain why this advice was misaimed, we need to talk about Zenos. Zenos is the former crown prince of Garlemald, an expansionistic, evil empire. A prodigy at everything he tried, he quickly grew bored with life, until an assassination attempt made him realize that there was one thing that made his blood quicken -- combat. Since then, he's constantly been on the lookout for new targets to sate his bloodlust. In battle, he's singularly focused on the task at hand, ruthlessly efficient in pursuit of his objectives. He does not question himself. He does not hesitate. And he's come to battle today looking to slaughter his opponents to the last. Before Selvaria can even take stock of the situation, he's likely to simply hop into the air and cut Aigis and Kirby in half. Her protests will go on unheard ears. It's not the first time a subordinate's questioned his motives. Last time, his blunt response was that the meaning behind his actions was his and his alone. Selvaria, loyal as she is, is not likely to question her lord for very long. She's a soldier. Her role is not to reason why. Hers is but to do and die. That's enough of an explanation on how ruthless a predator Kirby and Aigis are up against. The next question is: can he really get rid of them so quickly? If so, how? Well... https://youtu.be/zGWVMh3SDbw?t=391 Something like this would be a fine start, to begin with (the following 20 seconds or so suffice). Particularly for the already wounded Aigis, it's likely Zenos will just split her in half in the first few seconds of the match. And this is not some kind of one-off feat, either: https://youtu.be/4EOKyyokIyw?t=387 (Some ten seconds or so are enough from the timestamp) His reach and power established, let's assume for a second that Aigis (or Kirby, if you prefer) is quickly slain. Let's say Selvaria manages to get through before he dispatches his other prey, however -- and convinces him that a fearsome warrior is waiting in the wings for him. This is not a good thing. It's going to get Zenos motivated. And what does he do when motivated? Go all out. For instance, by tapping into the power of the Goddess of Light, Hydaelyn, to transform into his alternate form: the grand wyrm, Shinryu. To first stop it, the heroes of XIV decided to sic another world-ending threat upon it, the weapon from beyond the stars, Omega. This is their clash, and if you only have time to watch one single bit of hype from this argument, make it this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecMSU6BiE8Q The backlash of Shinryu's Protostar attack vs Omega's Delta Attack sent Omega hurtling away so hard that its crash-landing leveled a mountain, leaving a gaping hole on its side you can see even in-game in XIV if you go to the right area. Imagine what Protostar will do to these people. Shinryu also possesses major crowd control abilities (it can magically bind enemies together, forcing them to scatter or take rapidly mounting, quickly lethal damage), can suppress healing abilities (one of its many dragon breaths severely weakens healing effects upon the target), reduce enemy defenses to near zero, and simply control the battlefield at will (it can also create tornadoes to force enemies back and pin them to walls). It is an absolute titan, and any one of its attacks is liable to be game-ending. What's Tusk going to do if he's buried underwater? How exactly is he going to survive the lightning storm that'll follow, which is also likely to just obliterate Aigis outright? There's truly not a lot the enemy team can do to him. Zenos is a beast. No one here can stop him. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951159] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>TL;DR: Enemy team is split up and dwarfed in power in a straight fight. Tusk's advice is not going to stop Zenos from murdering Kirby and Aigis.So this is a pretty simple fight, really. Sagat and Tusk start all alone. Kirby and Aigis start with the enemy team, Aigis heavily damaged from taking a full power limit break from Tifa to kick things off. Seems like a pretty simple, open-and-shut case, doesn't it? The only complicating wrinkle is Tusk's advice to Selvaria. To explain why this advice was misaimed, we need to talk about Zenos.Zenos is the former crown prince of Garlemald, an expansionistic, evil empire. A prodigy at everything he tried, he quickly grew bored with life, until an assassination attempt made him realize that there was one thing that made his blood quicken -- combat. Since then, he's constantly been on the lookout for new targets to sate his bloodlust. In battle, he's singularly focused on the task at hand, ruthlessly efficient in pursuit of his objectives. He does not question himself. He does not hesitate. And he's come to battle today looking to slaughter his opponents to the last. Before Selvaria can even take stock of the situation, he's likely to simply hop into the air and cut Aigis and Kirby in half. Her protests will go on unheard ears. It's not the first time a subordinate's questioned his motives. Last time, his blunt response was that the meaning behind his actions was his and his alone. Selvaria, loyal as she is, is not likely to question her lord for very long. She's a soldier. Her role is not to reason why. Hers is but to do and die.That's enough of an explanation on how ruthless a predator Kirby and Aigis are up against. The next question is: can he really get rid of them so quickly? If so, how? Well...https://youtu.be/zGWVMh3SDbw?t=391Something like this would be a fine start, to begin with (the following 20 seconds or so suffice). Particularly for the already wounded Aigis, it's likely Zenos will just split her in half in the first few seconds of the match. And this is not some kind of one-off feat, either:https://youtu.be/4EOKyyokIyw?t=387(Some ten seconds or so are enough from the timestamp) His reach and power established, let's assume for a second that Aigis (or Kirby, if you prefer) is quickly slain. Let's say Selvaria manages to get through before he dispatches his other prey, however -- and convinces him that a fearsome warrior is waiting in the wings for him. This is not a good thing. It's going to get Zenos motivated. And what does he do when motivated? Go all out. For instance, by tapping into the power of the Goddess of Light, Hydaelyn, to transform into his alternate form: the grand wyrm, Shinryu. To first stop it, the heroes of XIV decided to sic another world-ending threat upon it, the weapon from beyond the stars, Omega. This is their clash, and if you only have time to watch one single bit of hype from this argument, make it this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecMSU6BiE8QThe backlash of Shinryu's Protostar attack vs Omega's Delta Attack sent Omega hurtling away so hard that its crash-landing leveled a mountain, leaving a gaping hole on its side you can see even in-game in XIV if you go to the right area. Imagine what Protostar will do to these people. Shinryu also possesses major crowd control abilities (it can magically bind enemies together, forcing them to scatter or take rapidly mounting, quickly lethal damage), can suppress healing abilities (one of its many dragon breaths severely weakens healing effects upon the target), reduce enemy defenses to near zero, and simply control the battlefield at will (it can also create tornadoes to force enemies back and pin them to walls). It is an absolute titan, and any one of its attacks is liable to be game-ending. What's Tusk going to do if he's buried underwater? How exactly is he going to survive the lightning storm that'll follow, which is also likely to just obliterate Aigis outright? There's truly not a lot the enemy team can do to him. Zenos is a beast. No one here can stop him.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 1:37:58 PM #3:	I haven't talked about Zenos' backup much yet because I felt it was important to establish to what extent he is by far the biggest force on the field. You might think this is because the rest of my team is outshined by Kamek's... andyou'd be wrong. Not only is Zenos the strongest fighter on deck, Selvaria is either the second or third strongest with ease, depending on how you rate Tusk. I'll let her feats speak for themselves: She devastates tanks, plural, with a single shot of her Valkyrur lance...: https://streamable.com/pnfug She deflects tank shells...: https://streamable.com/8o3q5 Moves so fast it looks like she's teleporting around...: https://streamable.com/grj61 Dodges bullets and even slices them clean in half while not even using her Ragnite lance and shield or the full extent of her powers...: https://streamable.com/eugu8 ...And even withstands getting shot at multiple times if someone can actually get a hit on her and keeps on going without really being slowed down (my apologies for not providing an easy bite-sized link for this particular aspect of her powers -- it's when she activates her Valkyrur Final Flame, once again stripped of her lance and shield so her ability to channel her power should be lower than usual before unleashing the explosion). Point being, not one damn thing in Aigis' gunner arsenal can hurt her, and she's so tough that Aigis isn't liable to get much of a chance to cast while she's bearing down on her. And she has to be killed twice, too, or possibly even more times than that. She's liable to tear through the enemy team incidentally while fighting some of their heavy hitters, and no one really has the capacity to check her for long. Then there's Tifa. I assume most people here have played Final Fantasy Remake by now and witnessed her asskicking glory. What some might have forgotten is that we've seen her fight without materia, out of practice, and with a child to protect before in Advent Children, and she still kept up perfectly well with Loz, whose punches could smash stone pillars -- and here, all she has to deal with is having her materia scattered in close proximity. Losing materia is barely gonna slow her down for the initial asskicking, and once she has it back, Carbuncle is a tide-turner. It can haste the whole team, give them defensive buffs, and oh, did I mention that its Diamond Dazzle move can both full heal the whole team and revive them? So on the off chance Selvaria goes down twice or Kiryu bites the dust early, there you go -- that gets them back in the game, easy as you please, and it can't be wasted because it'll automatically trigger if Tifa herself is somehow KO'd. A pair of tiger shots are going to sting, but they're not nearly enough to slow her down very much. And then there's Kiryu. Kiryu, who's taken getting shot multiple times, getting hit with a lead pipe defenselessly for 30 seconds straight, who was stabbed by an envenomed blade before he went out to fight tigers barehanded, who regularly trades blows with Goro Majima, a lunatic who can hit with so much force as to blow through the entire floor of a soapland with one swing, bringing their fight to its basement. He'll be just fine here, Tiger Shot or no Tiger Shot. His job here is to take the survivors of the enemy team after the initial ambush wrecks them and make them regret being born. For personality reasons, I expect him to seek out Sagat, as a warrior of his caliber can sense other warriors. I consider this a fairly even matchup by default, but Kiryu won't be operating at his default -- he'll be sped up and taking half damage from everything Sagat, and he has either a full heal or an extra life to spare, depending on how you think the fight goes. He's got this. So where does this leave us overall? My team has two out of the three best fighters on the field. It has the enemy team split up and wounded. It has attacks the enemy team has no answer for. It has a very, VERY significant durability and AoE advantage. The situation is as simple as divide and conquer, compounding advantages in both power and strategy into an overwhelming victory. That is all. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951182] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>I haven't talked about Zenos' backup much yet because I felt it was important to establish to what extent he is by far the biggest force on the field. You might think this is because the rest of my team is outshined by Kamek's... andyou'd be wrong. Not only is Zenos the strongest fighter on deck, Selvaria is either the second or third strongest with ease, depending on how you rate Tusk. I'll let her feats speak for themselves:She devastates tanks, plural, with a single shot of her Valkyrur lance...: https://streamable.com/pnfugShe deflects tank shells...: https://streamable.com/8o3q5Moves so fast it looks like she's teleporting around...: https://streamable.com/grj61Dodges bullets and even slices them clean in half while not even using her Ragnite lance and shield or the full extent of her powers...: https://streamable.com/eugu8...And even withstands getting shot at multiple times if someone can actually get a hit on her and keeps on going without really being slowed down (my apologies for not providing an easy bite-sized link for this particular aspect of her powers -- it's when she activates her Valkyrur Final Flame, once again stripped of her lance and shield so her ability to channel her power should be lower than usual before unleashing the explosion). Point being, not one damn thing in Aigis' gunner arsenal can hurt her, and she's so tough that Aigis isn't liable to get much of a chance to cast while she's bearing down on her. And she has to be killed twice, too, or possibly even more times than that. She's liable to tear through the enemy team incidentally while fighting some of their heavy hitters, and no one really has the capacity to check her for long.Then there's Tifa. I assume most people here have played Final Fantasy Remake by now and witnessed her asskicking glory. What some might have forgotten is that we've seen her fight without materia, out of practice, and with a child to protect before in Advent Children, and she still kept up perfectly well with Loz, whose punches could smash stone pillars -- and here, all she has to deal with is having her materia scattered in close proximity. Losing materia is barely gonna slow her down for the initial asskicking, and once she has it back, Carbuncle is a tide-turner. It can haste the whole team, give them defensive buffs, and oh, did I mention that its Diamond Dazzle move can both full heal the whole team and revive them? So on the off chance Selvaria goes down twice or Kiryu bites the dust early, there you go -- that gets them back in the game, easy as you please, and it can't be wasted because it'll automatically trigger if Tifa herself is somehow KO'd. A pair of tiger shots are going to sting, but they're not nearly enough to slow her down very much.And then there's Kiryu. Kiryu, who's taken getting shot multiple times, getting hit with a lead pipe defenselessly for 30 seconds straight, who was stabbed by an envenomed blade before he went out to fight tigers barehanded, who regularly trades blows with Goro Majima, a lunatic who can hit with so much force as to blow through the entire floor of a soapland with one swing, bringing their fight to its basement. He'll be just fine here, Tiger Shot or no Tiger Shot. His job here is to take the survivors of the enemy team after the initial ambush wrecks them and make them regret being born. For personality reasons, I expect him to seek out Sagat, as a warrior of his caliber can sense other warriors. I consider this a fairly even matchup by default, but Kiryu won't be operating at his default -- he'll be sped up and taking half damage from everything Sagat, and he has either a full heal or an extra life to spare, depending on how you think the fight goes. He's got this.So where does this leave us overall? My team has two out of the three best fighters on the field. It has the enemy team split up and wounded. It has attacks the enemy team has no answer for. It has a very, VERY significant durability and AoE advantage. The situation is as simple as divide and conquer, compounding advantages in both power and strategy into an overwhelming victory. That is all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 1:38:27 PM #4:	So Kirby and Aigis are surrounded by bad guys. Not a great look! However, there is the matter of Selvarias message, one she believes to be from Zenos, who she sees as her lord, sworn to protect and obey, beyond her own safety or thoughts. Shes been told to keep that puffball and robot girl safe until Zenos can fight his great warrior (who is not the puffball in this case), and heres Tifa, already screwing that up! Sure, the girls getting punished with some Tiger Shots for her trouble, but theres no time to process this information. Selvaria WILL explain things at the first possible NANOSECOND, she will make the words of her lord understood, and probably everyone will say mean things to Tifa. Like, Zenos is going to want to enjoy the thrill of a good fight too much to NOT let them go (plus he knows Tusks stipulation, killing the weaklings in front of him means he does not get a potentially glorious battle), and whats Kiryu going to do, AGREE to punch a woman? Even if worst comes to worst, Kirby is perfectly equipped for a quick escape, burrowing into the terrain after grabbing Aigis with his Twin Drill ability. Kirby may not be the brightest bulb, but hes more than willing to help get his friends out of a tight jam, especially one who just protected him! All they have to do is get some distance and Wheel Kirby can just zoot Aigis right back up, she just needs to hang on and hell take her for a ride!. No, this fight is gonna take place fairly and squarely. And by fairly, I mean Zenos and Tusk are gonna duke it out, and everyone else is also gonna fight over to the side here. Everyone here wants that, except Aigis, who just wants Kirby safe. But I have a feeling a big question is okay who the Hell is Tusk? https://youtu.be/NJGo2fmUAII Everything you wanted Conan the Barbarian and He-Man to be. That is Tusk. An immortal warrior, given endless life and the durability to match by the Ichorians, angelic beings of the Astral Plane that yknow just like. Angels and shit gave him immortality, alright? His sole purpose, defending the Earth from astral threats like Gargos, a demon that none else could even hope to wound. Equipped with the blade Warg-gram, forged from the most primal and unbreakable element of the Astral plane, Tusk well, to put it simply, he swings his sword at you, and you die. Please enjoy a few passages from the Killer Instinct novellas The Watchman Awakens and Conflux *** Dont struggle, continued the stranger, speaking through an ugly slit of a mouth set in a featureless face. Youre not goin anywhere. Thats Ultratine youre wrapped up inproprietary tech, of course. Each cord is a hundred times stronger than the cables that hold up the Golden Gate Bridge. (Followed By) Cut me free, said Tusk again. And he closed his eyes in concentration. I told you, it aint gonna happen. I wasnt talking to you. The runes on Warg-gram blazed to life and Cinders arm lunged forward suddenly. What the blazing hell! cried Cinder. He tried to let go of the handle but he couldnt. The blade pulled him against his will all around the cargo hold, hacking at everything in sight, throwing up sparks, and wreaking havoc. Riptor scurried up the stairs leading to the second level, and vanished from sight. Cinder staggered forward like a puppet and swung Warg-gram at Tusk, but the blade merely sliced through the Ultratine netting as though it were nothing more than string, leaving Tusk unscathed. The barbarian dropped to the floor. Slowly, he stood up to his full height. Now make a door, he commanded. Cinder cried out as Warg-gram, still held in his hand, plunged into the steel floor up to the hilt, then dragged him around in a circle, cutting through the metal sheeting. The instant Cinder completed the circle, the sword flew from his hand and Tusk caught it in mid-air by the handle. * The dinosaur glanced up at the bound swordsman, then peered down at his weapon, snuffling at it. Reaching out its neck hesitantly, it picked up Warg-gram with its mouth. The handle instantly turned molten hot and the dinosaurdespite being a fire breatherhowled in agony as several of its teeth melted. It flung aside the sword and ran down the ramp to plunge its mouth in the cooling snow. * Tusk went into a dive position, holding Warg-gram out in front of him, the wind blasting his face as he reached terminal velocity. He reckoned he had a minute or so before he hit the ground. He thought about the young Asian woman hed seen in Warg-gram. He thought about the blue-skinned warrior. He thought of the Ichoriens and their making song He struck the ice with the sound of a bomb going off. *** So the simple matter is, Warg-Gram is an utterly insane weapon. Able to follow Tusks commands with thought, capable of melting through steel, bone - it took a man made of lava in order to even get close to how hot the sword could get! Designed specifically to pierce a magical being, known as the only weapon in the realms that can slay Gargos (and the only one that actually HAS!). This is combined with Tusks 10,000 years of training and discipline, honing his reflexes, making him a warrior without peer. And sure, hes a fighting game character amongst the Killer Instinct cast, but he defeats Fulgore (imagine if The Predator were a robot) and ARIA (imagine if all of SKYNET were a robot and it wanted to step on you) in a single blow and mortally wounds Riptor (imagine a raptor, but technology and it breathes fire) in the process. He is not just guy with magic sword. He walks forward, he slashes you, and you WILL be cut in twain. You slash him, he will survive it - when stabbed in the heart by a fragment of Gargos via Shadow Jago, something made explicitly to kill him doing exactly what it was supposed to, Tusk just fell comatose for a while. Im not saying thats ideal, but I am saying that considering his terminal velocity fall, it is going to take a very, very long time for anyone to wear Tusk down. Which brings us to his fight with Zenos. Now, I will not pretend that Zenos is not a worthy foe - he absolutely is. The sheer amount of damage he brings to the table is tremendous. But the thought of clashing blades with Tusk? That will be absolutely intoxicating. Tusk is seasoned enough to know how to avoid magical attacks, has slain dragons in the old world, can take on assaults from beyond the stars. A test of your reflexes? Bro SHADOW COUNTERS are the name of the game, get outta here, reversals are Killer Instincts entire thing! Tearing out out a life? Tusks life will NOT end, thank you very much, no matter how much he seeks it! The important thing is that this will NOT be a short fight for either of them, they both will be injured, and theyre both probably going to have a Hell of a good time. Which leaves everyone else and uh. Yknow that Zenos guy? The one thats fighting Tusk? Kirby has his powers. Like, all of it. Tidal waves, lightning, precog, the rending of souls, freezing the ground and petrifying all around, becoming dragon, A TEST OF YOUR PUYO? Look, as much as Id like to argue that Kiryu and Sagat have a really awesome 1v1 over around Bubblegloop Swamp or something, they are 100% collateral damage in this fight. Or at least, Kiryu is. Kirby might have by far the best offensive output of everyone here, and can pretty handily keep Tifa and Kiryu out of their most effective ranges, but hes not soloing. He has a friend. (Contd Below) --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970951193] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>So Kirby and Aigis are surrounded by bad guys. Not a great look! However, there is the matter of Selvarias message, one she believes to be from Zenos, who she sees as her lord, sworn to protect and obey, beyond her own safety or thoughts. Shes been told to keep that puffball and robot girl safe until Zenos can fight his great warrior (who is not the puffball in this case), and heres Tifa, already screwing that up! Sure, the girls getting punished with some Tiger Shots for her trouble, but theres no time to process this information. Selvaria WILL explain things at the first possible NANOSECOND, she will make the words of her lord understood, and probably everyone will say mean things to Tifa. Like, Zenos is going to want to enjoy the thrill of a good fight too much to NOT let them go (plus he knows Tusks stipulation, killing the weaklings in front of him means he does not get a potentially glorious battle), and whats Kiryu going to do, AGREE to punch a woman? Even if worst comes to worst, Kirby is perfectly equipped for a quick escape, burrowing into the terrain after grabbing Aigis with his Twin Drill ability. Kirby may not be the brightest bulb, but hes more than willing to help get his friends out of a tight jam, especially one who just protected him! All they have to do is get some distance and Wheel Kirby can just zoot Aigis right back up, she just needs to hang on and hell take her for a ride!. No, this fight is gonna take place fairly and squarely. And by fairly, I mean Zenos and Tusk are gonna duke it out, and everyone else is also gonna fight over to the side here. Everyone here wants that, except Aigis, who just wants Kirby safe.But I have a feeling a big question is okay who the Hell is Tusk?https://youtu.be/NJGo2fmUAIIEverything you wanted Conan the Barbarian and He-Man to be. That is Tusk. An immortal warrior, given endless life and the durability to match by the Ichorians, angelic beings of the Astral Plane that yknow just like. Angels and shit gave him immortality, alright? His sole purpose, defending the Earth from astral threats like Gargos, a demon that none else could even hope to wound. Equipped with the blade Warg-gram, forged from the most primal and unbreakable element of the Astral plane, Tusk well, to put it simply, he swings his sword at you, and you die. Please enjoy a few passages from the Killer Instinct novellas The Watchman Awakens and Conflux*Dont struggle, continued the stranger, speaking through an ugly slit of a mouth set in a featureless face. Youre not goin anywhere. Thats Ultratine youre wrapped up inproprietary tech, of course. Each cord is a hundred times stronger than the cables that hold up the Golden Gate Bridge.(Followed By)Cut me free, said Tusk again. And he closed his eyes in concentration. I told you, it aint gonna happen. I wasnt talking to you. The runes on Warg-gram blazed to life and Cinders arm lunged forward suddenly. What the blazing hell! cried Cinder. He tried to let go of the handle but he couldnt. The blade pulled him against his will all around the cargo hold, hacking at everything in sight, throwing up sparks, and wreaking havoc. Riptor scurried up the stairs leading to the second level, and vanished from sight. Cinder staggered forward like a puppet and swung Warg-gram at Tusk, but the blade merely sliced through the Ultratine netting as though it were nothing more than string, leaving Tusk unscathed. The barbarian dropped to the floor. Slowly, he stood up to his full height. Now make a door, he commanded. Cinder cried out as Warg-gram, still held in his hand, plunged into the steel floor up to the hilt, then dragged him around in a circle, cutting through the metal sheeting. The instant Cinder completed the circle, the sword flew from his hand and Tusk caught it in mid-air by the handle.The dinosaur glanced up at the bound swordsman, then peered down at his weapon, snuffling at it. Reaching out its neck hesitantly, it picked up Warg-gram with its mouth. The handle instantly turned molten hot and the dinosaurdespite being a fire breatherhowled in agony as several of its teeth melted. It flung aside the sword and ran down the ramp to plunge its mouth in the cooling snow.Tusk went into a dive position, holding Warg-gram out in front of him, the wind blasting his face as he reached terminal velocity. He reckoned he had a minute or so before he hit the ground. He thought about the young Asian woman hed seen in Warg-gram. He thought about the blue-skinned warrior. He thought of the Ichoriens and their making song He struck the ice with the sound of a bomb going off.*So the simple matter is, Warg-Gram is an utterly insane weapon. Able to follow Tusks commands with thought, capable of melting through steel, bone - it took a man made of lava in order to even get close to how hot the sword could get! Designed specifically to pierce a magical being, known as the only weapon in the realms that can slay Gargos (and the only one that actually HAS!). This is combined with Tusks 10,000 years of training and discipline, honing his reflexes, making him a warrior without peer. And sure, hes a fighting game character amongst the Killer Instinct cast, but he defeats Fulgore (imagine if The Predator were a robot) and ARIA (imagine if all of SKYNET were a robot and it wanted to step on you) in a single blow and mortally wounds Riptor (imagine a raptor, but technology and it breathes fire) in the process. He is not just guy with magic sword. He walks forward, he slashes you, and you WILL be cut in twain. You slash him, he will survive it - when stabbed in the heart by a fragment of Gargos via Shadow Jago, something made explicitly to kill him doing exactly what it was supposed to, Tusk just fell comatose for a while. Im not saying thats ideal, but I am saying that considering his terminal velocity fall, it is going to take a very, very long time for anyone to wear Tusk down.Which brings us to his fight with Zenos. Now, I will not pretend that Zenos is not a worthy foe - he absolutely is. The sheer amount of damage he brings to the table is tremendous. But the thought of clashing blades with Tusk? That will be absolutely intoxicating. Tusk is seasoned enough to know how to avoid magical attacks, has slain dragons in the old world, can take on assaults from beyond the stars. A test of your reflexes? Bro SHADOW COUNTERS are the name of the game, get outta here, reversals are Killer Instincts entire thing! Tearing out out a life? Tusks life will NOT end, thank you very much, no matter how much he seeks it! The important thing is that this will NOT be a short fight for either of them, they both will be injured, and theyre both probably going to have a Hell of a good time.Which leaves everyone else and uh. Yknow that Zenos guy? The one thats fighting Tusk? Kirby has his powers. Like, all of it. Tidal waves, lightning, precog, the rending of souls, freezing the ground and petrifying all around, becoming dragon, A TEST OF YOUR PUYO? Look, as much as Id like to argue that Kiryu and Sagat have a really awesome 1v1 over around Bubblegloop Swamp or something, they are 100% collateral damage in this fight. Or at least, Kiryu is. Kirby might have by far the best offensive output of everyone here, and can pretty handily keep Tifa and Kiryu out of their most effective ranges, but hes not soloing. He has a friend. (Contd Below)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 1:39:43 PM #5:	https://youtu.be/RP1FRaelzc8 Aigis is a walking arsenal. Inside of her frame is tons of weapons - literal finger guns, gattling guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, grenade launchers, missile launchers, rocket boosters, you name it. How accurate is she? She was able to infiltrate a plane filled with terrorists and handcuffed each of them before they could fire a shot at her, one of them being disabled because she removed a button from another mans coat and flicked it at his forehead fast enough to disable him AND before he could pull the trigger on his pistol. Were talking ridiculous accuracy here. This is not what Aigis is here for. Please, feel free to look at Aigis spells: Freidyne - Heavy Nuke Attack Diarahan - Fully restores one allys HP Matarukaja - Increases partys attack Marakukaja - Increases partys defense Masukukaja - Increases partys Hit/evasion rate Marakunda - Lower defense (all enemies) Aegis Shielding - Null Fire/Ice/Elic/Wind/Psy/Nuke damage to users row (requires active focus) Samarecarm - Revive and restore all HP (1 ally) This is in addition to physical arts like Agneyastra, which is just a meteor storm, and Gods Hand, where the fist of a holy lord comes down to punch someone in the face, some of these strongest physical skills available in the Shin Megami Tensei series. Aigis is not here to deal direct damage - she is here to ensure that not only does Kirby live, he is stronger that he could ever possibly be. Any damage Kirby takes, healed off. Stray elemental blows from Zenos, those arent gonna affect Kirbo through Aegis Shielding. He goes down for ANY REASON, and she gets him right back up to full. This also might passively help Sagat, too, which would be neat because the guy deserves his w against Kiryu. Selvaria has one revive in this fight. Kirby has as many as his friend will allow for. And Kirby ALWAYS protects his friends, no matter how far he has to go to do so. And because Kirby is so overwhelming offensively, Aigis can be allowed to focus on her support capabilities, purely avoiding damage and making sure Kirby either does the same or recovers from it. She CAN shoot out but she doesnt need to. Oh, and if Tusk goes down she can probably prop him up, too. I dont see her healing him mid-fight because thatd definitely aggro Zenos to her and shes gotta support Kirbo, but if he loses (which will take longer than beating up Selvaria and Tifa)? But just in case, we do have one more little trick for you. Ysee, Kirby has brought his Vivi form in here, too. Now, Vivi has an auto-reflect status cast on him in mercs. Kirby has some decent battle precog through Zenos. If Zenos would, say, get a huge attack that Kirby would happen to be in the way of, well, swapping to Vivi to bounce it back at everyone else wouldnt be too hard! Then he can go right back to Zenosing after he Zenosed your Zenos. Regardless of who wins Tusk v Zenos, Kirby will be there. He will be well rested. He will probably be buffed. And he will be ready to win. Pure offense was brought to a battle of attrition, glory seeking a great battle, and it loses in the face of a far greater force. Friendship. tl;dr -Kirby and Aigis escape, Selvaria will explain her orders INSTANTLY, she will know things are already going wrong and WILL stop her lord from ruining his own play however possible. Zenos likes fighting a worthy foe too much to waste the opportunity, Kiryu respects women. -Aigis heals off all of her damage. During all fights, she is able to null all magic damage to Kirby besides darkness, and can revive Kirby on command. -Tusk is durable enough and WARRIOR, LITERALLY REVIVED BY LIGHT enough to keep Zenos attention for pretty much the whole fight, if not actively give him a great fight. -Anything Zenos can do, Kirby can do just as well. Selvaria and Tifa dont stand a chance with the AoE within the tighter confines of Gruntys Lair -Sagat and Kiryu can have a cool man fight somewhere else if they want. It doesnt matter who wins, just imagine them having it. -Aigis prevents Kirby and herself from being caught in AoE nonsense. Selvaria and Tifa do not have this luxury. -Kirby can get auto-reflect when he feels like it. -The simple thing is that healing and defenses provided by Aigis mean that this is a battle of attrition that can be won, and her natural mobility and reflexes are enough to keep herself alive while playing support. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970951226] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>https://youtu.be/RP1FRaelzc8Aigis is a walking arsenal. Inside of her frame is tons of weapons - literal finger guns, gattling guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, grenade launchers, missile launchers, rocket boosters, you name it. How accurate is she? She was able to infiltrate a plane filled with terrorists and handcuffed each of them before they could fire a shot at her, one of them being disabled because she removed a button from another mans coat and flicked it at his forehead fast enough to disable him AND before he could pull the trigger on his pistol. Were talking ridiculous accuracy here. This is not what Aigis is here for. Please, feel free to look at Aigis spells:Freidyne - Heavy Nuke AttackDiarahan - Fully restores one allys HPMatarukaja - Increases partys attackMarakukaja - Increases partys defenseMasukukaja - Increases partys Hit/evasion rateMarakunda - Lower defense (all enemies)Aegis Shielding - Null Fire/Ice/Elic/Wind/Psy/Nuke damage to users row (requires active focus)Samarecarm - Revive and restore all HP (1 ally)This is in addition to physical arts like Agneyastra, which is just a meteor storm, and Gods Hand, where the fist of a holy lord comes down to punch someone in the face, some of these strongest physical skills available in the Shin Megami Tensei series. Aigis is not here to deal direct damage - she is here to ensure that not only does Kirby live, he is stronger that he could ever possibly be. Any damage Kirby takes, healed off. Stray elemental blows from Zenos, those arent gonna affect Kirbo through Aegis Shielding. He goes down for ANY REASON, and she gets him right back up to full. This also might passively help Sagat, too, which would be neat because the guy deserves his w against Kiryu. Selvaria has one revive in this fight. Kirby has as many as his friend will allow for. And Kirby ALWAYS protects his friends, no matter how far he has to go to do so. And because Kirby is so overwhelming offensively, Aigis can be allowed to focus on her support capabilities, purely avoiding damage and making sure Kirby either does the same or recovers from it. She CAN shoot out but she doesnt need to. Oh, and if Tusk goes down she can probably prop him up, too. I dont see her healing him mid-fight because thatd definitely aggro Zenos to her and shes gotta support Kirbo, but if he loses (which will take longer than beating up Selvaria and Tifa)? But just in case, we do have one more little trick for you. Ysee, Kirby has brought his Vivi form in here, too. Now, Vivi has an auto-reflect status cast on him in mercs. Kirby has some decent battle precog through Zenos. If Zenos would, say, get a huge attack that Kirby would happen to be in the way of, well, swapping to Vivi to bounce it back at everyone else wouldnt be too hard! Then he can go right back to Zenosing after he Zenosed your Zenos. Regardless of who wins Tusk v Zenos, Kirby will be there. He will be well rested. He will probably be buffed. And he will be ready to win. Pure offense was brought to a battle of attrition, glory seeking a great battle, and it loses in the face of a far greater force. Friendship.tl;dr-Kirby and Aigis escape, Selvaria will explain her orders INSTANTLY, she will know things are already going wrong and WILL stop her lord from ruining his own play however possible. Zenos likes fighting a worthy foe too much to waste the opportunity, Kiryu respects women.-Aigis heals off all of her damage. During all fights, she is able to null all magic damage to Kirby besides darkness, and can revive Kirby on command.-Tusk is durable enough and WARRIOR, LITERALLY REVIVED BY LIGHT enough to keep Zenos attention for pretty much the whole fight, if not actively give him a great fight.-Anything Zenos can do, Kirby can do just as well. Selvaria and Tifa dont stand a chance with the AoE within the tighter confines of Gruntys Lair-Sagat and Kiryu can have a cool man fight somewhere else if they want. It doesnt matter who wins, just imagine them having it.-Aigis prevents Kirby and herself from being caught in AoE nonsense. Selvaria and Tifa do not have this luxury.-Kirby can get auto-reflect when he feels like it.-The simple thing is that healing and defenses provided by Aigis mean that this is a battle of attrition that can be won, and her natural mobility and reflexes are enough to keep herself alive while playing support.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 01/19/23 1:40:05 PM #6:	Such walls --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:970951238] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Such walls </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 1:42:20 PM #7:	The merc blurbs or the hype packages cause I couldn't help but giggle when Selvaria's ability effects were like four times longer than her writeup, ngl --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951283] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>The merc blurbs or the hype packagescause I couldn't help but giggle when Selvaria's ability effects were like four times longer than her writeup, ngl</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv 01/19/23 1:44:16 PM #8:	Isnt Kirby just gonna swallow and spit Tifa stsrting so close to her, allowing Aigis to defeat her? --- Board 8's Voice of Reason https://i.imgur.com/AWY4xHy.jpg <cite>Eddv posted [p:970951325] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Isnt Kirby just gonna swallow and spit Tifa stsrting so close to her, allowing Aigis to defeat her? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mewtwo59 01/19/23 1:46:25 PM #9:	To me, this comes down to whether or not Zenos kills Aigis and Kirby before Selvaria can interfere. Because if this comes down to Sagat vs. Selvaria, Kiryu, and Tifa, it won't be pretty. --- ""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47 <cite>Mewtwo59 posted [p:970951368] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>To me, this comes down to whether or not Zenos kills Aigis and Kirby before Selvaria can interfere. Because if this comes down to Sagat vs. Selvaria, Kiryu, and Tifa, it won't be pretty.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 1:47:17 PM #10:	Eddv posted... Isnt Kirby just gonna swallow and spit Tifa stsrting so close to her, allowing Aigis to defeat her? He can't swallow enemy mercenaries, as per his writeup --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951385] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Eddv posted... </cite><quote>Isnt Kirby just gonna swallow and spit Tifa stsrting so close to her, allowing Aigis to defeat her?</quote>He can't swallow enemy mercenaries, as per his writeup</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 1:50:06 PM #11:	This is also probably a good time to post a reminder of exactly how squishy Aigis is against swords: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/f2/4a/eff24a2727135a6b4d22a3a4bbd80bc0.jpg If Yu Narukami can tear pieces of her off with a fairly ordinary katana, Zenos' magitek scythe should absolutely murder her. Bit of a strength gap, that. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951449] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>This is also probably a good time to post a reminder of exactly how squishy Aigis is against swords:https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/f2/4a/eff24a2727135a6b4d22a3a4bbd80bc0.jpgIf Yu Narukami can tear pieces of her off with a fairly ordinary katana, Zenos' magitek scythe should absolutely murder her. Bit of a strength gap, that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 01/19/23 1:50:14 PM #12:	https://youtube.com/watch?v=zHpx3JNDS5M --- Kneel... or you will be knelt <cite>NFUN posted [p:970951452] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>https://youtube.com/watch?v=zHpx3JNDS5M</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drakeryn 01/19/23 1:53:10 PM #13:	Kamekguy posted... Cut me free, said Tusk again. And he closed his eyes in concentration. I told you, it aint gonna happen. I wasnt talking to you. The runes on Warg-gram blazed to life and Cinders arm lunged forward suddenly. What the blazing hell! cried Cinder. He tried to let go of the handle but he couldnt. The blade pulled him against his will... okay, so, exactly what is going on here you mention that Tusk can remotely control Warg-gram with his thoughts. but he also seems to be able to physically control an unrelated third party, forcing him to move against his will? how exactly does that work? --- another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high <cite>Drakeryn posted [p:970951514] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Kamekguy posted...</cite><quote>Cut me free, said Tusk again. And he closed his eyes in concentration.I told you, it aint gonna happen.I wasnt talking to you.The runes on Warg-gram blazed to life and Cinders arm lunged forward suddenly.What the blazing hell! cried Cinder. He tried to let go of the handle but he couldnt. The blade pulled him against his will...</quote>okay, so, exactly what is going on hereyou mention that Tusk can remotely control Warg-gram with his thoughts. but he also seems to be able to physically control an unrelated third party, forcing him to move against his will? how exactly does that work?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 01/19/23 1:53:46 PM #14:	kirby terminology is counterintuitive sometimes he can suck and spit mercs, but not swallow them right --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:970951522] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>kirby terminology is counterintuitive sometimeshe can suck and spit mercs, but not swallow them right</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 1:57:30 PM #15:	FFDragon posted... kirby terminology is counterintuitive sometimes he can suck and spit mercs, but not swallow them right Kamek would have to confirm (he was the buildmaker of Kirby) but I suspect this might be correct. I will note however that if Kirby and Aigis start fighting, Selvaria's not likely to trust the advice she's received. Pissing Selvaria off on top of having Zenos go to town on Aigis and Kirby is really, really not a great look for the puffball and the robot. I don't think it's controversial to say that they extremely do not win a 2v4. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951600] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>FFDragon posted... </cite><quote>kirby terminology is counterintuitive sometimeshe can suck and spit mercs, but not swallow them right</quote>Kamek would have to confirm (he was the buildmaker of Kirby) but I suspect this might be correct.I will note however that if Kirby and Aigis start fighting, Selvaria's not likely to trust the advice she's received. Pissing Selvaria off on top of having Zenos go to town on Aigis and Kirby is really, really not a great look for the puffball and the robot. I don't think it's controversial to say that they extremely do not win a 2v4.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 2:00:51 PM #16:	KanzarisKelshen posted... This is also probably a good time to post a reminder of exactly how squishy Aigis is against swords: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/f2/4a/eff24a2727135a6b4d22a3a4bbd80bc0.jpg If Yu Narukami can tear pieces of her off with a fairly ordinary katana, Zenos' magitek scythe should absolutely murder her. Bit of a strength gap, that. Oh noooooo the man with the lightning sword swengthened by his persona (reminder that your STR stat is directly tied to your Persona, so that's an "ordinary" katana forged from materials in the collective subconscious) bwoke my headphones, I so weak ;-; Please, Aigis is fine. Persona-users like Labrys (whose persona is not exactly 'strong' compared to others, like that's a fresh awakening) have broken military-grade steel gates in a single attack, and Aigis managed to survive an encounter with Thanatos (VERY strong boy in the context of personas) when she was at her absolute weakest. Also I am sorry if Ms. "Can dodge bullets" and "would follow orders if it kills her" is somehow unable to get in front of Zenos and at least say SOMETHING before he's able to run forward. When Kirby, who by the way ISN'T EVEN HURT he's just in the air, is perfectly equipped to immediately get away with Wheel and Twin Drill, friendo in tow. Like, lemme reiterate that - Kirby is NOT stunned, Aigis has taken ALL of his damage, he's just there. If he wanted to (and he's a friend, he would), he can riposte an initial attack from Zenos if necessary. Why can Kirby do this? Bro he's got the same weapon, power set, and reaction times (have you SEEN Samurai Kirby? He gets a variant of that, like, every game!) And then things get said, Zenos KNOWS he wants to fight Tusk before Tusk has to go away and everyone else picks off Sagat, Kiryu probably says something profound about respecting your opponents and friendship while the sad sub-story music from Yakuza plays you know the one. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970951663] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>This is also probably a good time to post a reminder of exactly how squishy Aigis is against swords:https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/f2/4a/eff24a2727135a6b4d22a3a4bbd80bc0.jpgIf Yu Narukami can tear pieces of her off with a fairly ordinary katana, Zenos' magitek scythe should absolutely murder her. Bit of a strength gap, that.</quote>Oh noooooo the man with the lightning sword swengthened by his persona (reminder that your STR stat is directly tied to your Persona, so that's an "ordinary" katana forged from materials in the collective subconscious) bwoke my headphones, I so weak ;-;Please, Aigis is fine. Persona-users like Labrys (whose persona is not exactly 'strong' compared to others, like that's a fresh awakening) have broken military-grade steel gates in a single attack, and Aigis managed to survive an encounter with Thanatos (VERY strong boy in the context of personas) when she was at her absolute weakest.Also I am sorry if Ms. "Can dodge bullets" and "would follow orders if it kills her" is somehow unable to get in front of Zenos and at least say SOMETHING before he's able to run forward. When Kirby, who by the way ISN'T EVEN HURT he's just in the air, is perfectly equipped to immediately get away with Wheel and Twin Drill, friendo in tow. Like, lemme reiterate that - Kirby is NOT stunned, Aigis has taken ALL of his damage, he's just there. If he wanted to (and he's a friend, he would), he can riposte an initial attack from Zenos if necessary. Why can Kirby do this?Bro he's got the same weapon, power set, and reaction times (have you SEEN Samurai Kirby? He gets a variant of that, like, every game!)And then things get said, Zenos KNOWS he wants to fight Tusk before Tusk has to go away and everyone else picks off Sagat, Kiryu probably says something profound about respecting your opponents and friendship while the sad sub-story music from Yakuza plays you know the one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 2:04:44 PM #17:	A couple of points: -Selvaria 100% believes this advice, the question is whether Zenos will listen to her about it. If so, I think Zenos will let the two go, per the advice. He has plenty of experience letting enemies go if it means he'll get a bigger fish to fry; that's his whole *thing.* -Zenos does NOT become post-Hydaelyn Shinryu. Per the writeup, he becomes EX Trial Shinryu, which has been severely weakened by his clash with Omega. Still super powerful, don't get me wrong, but let's keep it real here. -Kirby does NOT do "everything Zenos can do." Garleans are biologically top-tier races in FF14, having simply evolved as such at the cost of being magicless. Zenos underwent further body transformaton to get over the whole "magicless" thing and use the absolutely ginormous amount of aether at his disposal. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970951734] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>A couple of points:-Selvaria 100% believes this advice, the question is whether Zenos will listen to her about it. If so, I think Zenos will let the two go, per the advice. He has plenty of experience letting enemies go if it means he'll get a bigger fish to fry; that's his whole thing.-Zenos does NOT become post-Hydaelyn Shinryu. Per the writeup, he becomes EX Trial Shinryu, which has been severely weakened by his clash with Omega. Still super powerful, don't get me wrong, but let's keep it real here.-Kirby does NOT do "everything Zenos can do." Garleans are biologically top-tier races in FF14, having simply evolved as such at the cost of being magicless. Zenos underwent further body transformaton to get over the whole "magicless" thing and use the absolutely ginormous amount of aether at his disposal.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 2:07:01 PM #18:	Drakeryn posted... okay, so, exactly what is going on here you mention that Tusk can remotely control Warg-gram with his thoughts. but he also seems to be able to physically control an unrelated third party, forcing him to move against his will? how exactly does that work? So in that scene, Cinder is holding the sword (because he's a lava-fire man, so burning him with teeth and metal melting powers is not a thing Warg-Gram can do). Tusk is bantering, then tells the sword what it wants to do. Cinder tries holding on, the sword is stronger than he is and complies in spite of being held. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970951782] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Drakeryn posted... </cite><quote>okay, so, exactly what is going on hereyou mention that Tusk can remotely control Warg-gram with his thoughts. but he also seems to be able to physically control an unrelated third party, forcing him to move against his will? how exactly does that work?</quote>So in that scene, Cinder is holding the sword (because he's a lava-fire man, so burning him with teeth and metal melting powers is not a thing Warg-Gram can do). Tusk is bantering, then tells the sword what it wants to do. Cinder tries holding on, the sword is stronger than he is and complies in spite of being held.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv 01/19/23 2:08:58 PM #19:	Mewtwo59 posted... To me, this comes down to whether or not Zenos kills Aigis and Kirby before Selvaria can interfere. Because if this comes down to Sagat vs. Selvaria, Kiryu, and Tifa, it won't be pretty. I mean I think Tifa is screwed, shes already damaged and without any defenses beyond her raw skill and there are any number of reasons starting that close to an airborne kirby is bad for her and the knockbacks mean that they arent surrounded - theyre 10 feet away with Tifa and then they get Kiryu and THEN Zenos, if he chooses to close with them instead of going after Sagat and Tusk. So for me its about how long Aigis and Kirby hold out vs Zenos and Kiryu since Selvaria isnt getting involved in this fight. And really, that turns this fight into a 2 on 1 Sagat and Tusk vs Selvaria and Kiryu and Zenos vs Kirby and Aigis. I dont know anything about Tusk, which really looks like the key here. --- Board 8's Voice of Reason https://i.imgur.com/AWY4xHy.jpg <cite>Eddv posted [p:970951824] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Mewtwo59 posted... </cite><quote>To me, this comes down to whether or not Zenos kills Aigis and Kirby before Selvaria can interfere. Because if this comes down to Sagat vs. Selvaria, Kiryu, and Tifa, it won't be pretty.</quote>I mean I think Tifa is screwed, shes already damaged and without any defenses beyond her raw skill and there are any number of reasons starting that close to an airborne kirby is bad for her and the knockbacks mean that they arent surrounded - theyre 10 feet away with Tifa and then they get Kiryu and THEN Zenos, if he chooses to close with them instead of going after Sagat and Tusk. So for me its about how long Aigis and Kirby hold out vs Zenos and Kiryu since Selvaria isnt getting involved in this fight. And really, that turns this fight into a 2 on 1 Sagat and Tusk vs Selvaria and Kiryu and Zenos vs Kirby and Aigis. I dont know anything about Tusk, which really looks like the key here. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drakeryn 01/19/23 2:13:40 PM #20:	Kamekguy posted... So in that scene, Cinder is holding the sword (because he's a lava-fire man, so burning him with teeth and metal melting powers is not a thing Warg-Gram can do). Tusk is bantering, then tells the sword what it wants to do. Cinder tries holding on, the sword is stronger than he is and complies in spite of being held. oh okay. so it's not a cc/compulsion effect. I'm glad "cuts through steel floor" is still a feat in 2023 --- another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high <cite>Drakeryn posted [p:970951921] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Kamekguy posted...</cite><quote>So in that scene, Cinder is holding the sword (because he's a lava-fire man, so burning him with teeth and metal melting powers is not a thing Warg-Gram can do). Tusk is bantering, then tells the sword what it wants to do. Cinder tries holding on, the sword is stronger than he is and complies in spite of being held.</quote>oh okay. so it's not a cc/compulsion effect.I'm glad "cuts through steel floor" is still a feat in 2023</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 2:14:22 PM #21:	trdl23 posted... A couple of points: -Selvaria 100% believes this advice, the question is whether Zenos will listen to her about it. If so, I think Zenos will let the two go, per the advice. He has plenty of experience letting enemies go if it means he'll get a bigger fish to fry; that's his whole *thing.* -Zenos does NOT become post-Hydaelyn Shinryu. Per the writeup, he becomes EX Trial Shinryu, which has been severely weakened by his clash with Omega. Still super powerful, don't get me wrong, but let's keep it real here. -Kirby does NOT do "everything Zenos can do." Garleans are biologically top-tier races in FF14, having simply evolved as such at the cost of being magicless. Zenos underwent further body transformaton to get over the whole "magicless" thing and use the absolutely ginormous amount of aether at his disposal. The problem with Zenos listening isn't that he might not find the case compelling, to be clear (which is why I acknowledged Kirby might get away from the ambush) -- it's that he comes in with a plan of committing murder from the jump, and is the type to kill first and ask questions later. I can think of several instances of him getting thrust into immediate combat (his confrontation with Gaius and Estinien; the ambush attempt from Yugiri and the Warrior of Light) and he's immediately capable of kicking it into high gear. Kamekguy posted... Oh noooooo the man with the lightning sword swengthened by his persona (reminder that your STR stat is directly tied to your Persona, so that's an "ordinary" katana forged from materials in the collective subconscious) bwoke my headphones, I so weak ;-; Please, Aigis is fine. Persona-users like Labrys (whose persona is not exactly 'strong' compared to others, like that's a fresh awakening) have broken military-grade steel gates in a single attack, and Aigis managed to survive an encounter with Thanatos (VERY strong boy in the context of personas) when she was at her absolute weakest. Also I am sorry if Ms. "Can dodge bullets" and "would follow orders if it kills her" is somehow unable to get in front of Zenos and at least say SOMETHING before he's able to run forward. When Kirby, who by the way ISN'T EVEN HURT he's just in the air, is perfectly equipped to immediately get away with Wheel and Twin Drill, friendo in tow. Like, lemme reiterate that - Kirby is NOT stunned, Aigis has taken ALL of his damage, he's just there. If he wanted to (and he's a friend, he would), he can riposte an initial attack from Zenos if necessary. Why can Kirby do this? Bro he's got the same weapon, power set, and reaction times (have you SEEN Samurai Kirby? He gets a variant of that, like, every game!) And then things get said, Zenos KNOWS he wants to fight Tusk before Tusk has to go away and everyone else picks off Sagat, Kiryu probably says something profound about respecting your opponents and friendship while the sad sub-story music from Yakuza plays you know the one. Sir, this is from the same game where Kanji fights with a normal-ass chair Not that I'm opposed to free hype for my own mercenary, but there's still a vast gulf in power here between what you'd reasonably expect Yu to do with sword strikes vs what Zenos can do while beasting out, considering his baseline is shattering the guard of warriors who block swords the size of a tenement building and effortlessly resisting attacks from people who blow up artillery platforms. Whatever Yu can do, Zenos can outdo trivially. Aigis is very very done for. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951936] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>trdl23 posted... </cite><quote>A couple of points:-Selvaria 100% believes this advice, the question is whether Zenos will listen to her about it. If so, I think Zenos will let the two go, per the advice. He has plenty of experience letting enemies go if it means he'll get a bigger fish to fry; that's his whole thing.-Zenos does NOT become post-Hydaelyn Shinryu. Per the writeup, he becomes EX Trial Shinryu, which has been severely weakened by his clash with Omega. Still super powerful, don't get me wrong, but let's keep it real here.-Kirby does NOT do "everything Zenos can do." Garleans are biologically top-tier races in FF14, having simply evolved as such at the cost of being magicless. Zenos underwent further body transformaton to get over the whole "magicless" thing and use the absolutely ginormous amount of aether at his disposal.</quote>The problem with Zenos listening isn't that he might not find the case compelling, to be clear (which is why I acknowledged Kirby might get away from the ambush) -- it's that he comes in with a plan of committing murder from the jump, and is the type to kill first and ask questions later. I can think of several instances of him getting thrust into immediate combat (his confrontation with Gaius and Estinien; the ambush attempt from Yugiri and the Warrior of Light) and he's immediately capable of kicking it into high gear.Kamekguy posted... </cite><quote>Oh noooooo the man with the lightning sword swengthened by his persona (reminder that your STR stat is directly tied to your Persona, so that's an "ordinary" katana forged from materials in the collective subconscious) bwoke my headphones, I so weak ;-;Please, Aigis is fine. Persona-users like Labrys (whose persona is not exactly 'strong' compared to others, like that's a fresh awakening) have broken military-grade steel gates in a single attack, and Aigis managed to survive an encounter with Thanatos (VERY strong boy in the context of personas) when she was at her absolute weakest.Also I am sorry if Ms. "Can dodge bullets" and "would follow orders if it kills her" is somehow unable to get in front of Zenos and at least say SOMETHING before he's able to run forward. When Kirby, who by the way ISN'T EVEN HURT he's just in the air, is perfectly equipped to immediately get away with Wheel and Twin Drill, friendo in tow. Like, lemme reiterate that - Kirby is NOT stunned, Aigis has taken ALL of his damage, he's just there. If he wanted to (and he's a friend, he would), he can riposte an initial attack from Zenos if necessary. Why can Kirby do this?Bro he's got the same weapon, power set, and reaction times (have you SEEN Samurai Kirby? He gets a variant of that, like, every game!)And then things get said, Zenos KNOWS he wants to fight Tusk before Tusk has to go away and everyone else picks off Sagat, Kiryu probably says something profound about respecting your opponents and friendship while the sad sub-story music from Yakuza plays you know the one.</quote>Sir, this is from the same game where Kanji fights with a normal-ass chairNot that I'm opposed to free hype for my own mercenary, but there's still a vast gulf in power here between what you'd reasonably expect Yu to do with sword strikes vs what Zenos can do while beasting out, considering his baseline is shattering the guard of warriors who block swords the size of a tenement building and effortlessly resisting attacks from people who blow up artillery platforms. Whatever Yu can do, Zenos can outdo trivially. Aigis is very very done for.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 2:14:44 PM #22:	trdl23 posted... -Kirby does NOT do "everything Zenos can do." Garleans are biologically top-tier races in FF14, having simply evolved as such at the cost of being magicless. Zenos underwent further body transformaton to get over the whole "magicless" thing and use the absolutely ginormous amount of aether at his disposal. I trust your FFXIV expertise, so let me explain a bit about Kirby's biology. Kirby is composed of one of the four primal elements of his universe, Heart Matter. All "matter", in this sense, is amorphous, able to take on the traits of anything that it decides to manifest around. This is how "Dark Matter" possesses things and transforms into a swordsman, "Soul" bosses revive from the souls of beings like Sectonia, Marx, and Magolor who have absorbed too much of a great power, and how the Dream Matter being, Fecto Forgo, was able to reconstitute itself as Chaos Elfilis. Kirby's copy ability is not just duplicating biology - it's a combination of knowledge, intent, and actual ability. This is why he's able to perfectly match Meta Knight, a lifelong trained swordsman, just by eating a blade - in fact, if he eats Meta Knight's Sword in Forgotten Land, he will instantly gain the abilities of MK, regardless of if his "sword" power level is greater OR lower than MK's at that time (ex. he has the Gigant Sword as his 'sword' ability, if he eats MK's he will still get the MK Sword). He is eating the character and copying them, as intended, on a level equal to their character. It's like, eldrich primordial magic shit explained via Miiverse posts. Kirby is good at copying. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970951944] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>trdl23 posted... </cite><quote>-Kirby does NOT do "everything Zenos can do." Garleans are biologically top-tier races in FF14, having simply evolved as such at the cost of being magicless. Zenos underwent further body transformaton to get over the whole "magicless" thing and use the absolutely ginormous amount of aether at his disposal.</quote>I trust your FFXIV expertise, so let me explain a bit about Kirby's biology. Kirby is composed of one of the four primal elements of his universe, Heart Matter. All "matter", in this sense, is amorphous, able to take on the traits of anything that it decides to manifest around. This is how "Dark Matter" possesses things and transforms into a swordsman, "Soul" bosses revive from the souls of beings like Sectonia, Marx, and Magolor who have absorbed too much of a great power, and how the Dream Matter being, Fecto Forgo, was able to reconstitute itself as Chaos Elfilis. Kirby's copy ability is not just duplicating biology - it's a combination of knowledge, intent, and actual ability. This is why he's able to perfectly match Meta Knight, a lifelong trained swordsman, just by eating a blade - in fact, if he eats Meta Knight's Sword in Forgotten Land, he will instantly gain the abilities of MK, regardless of if his "sword" power level is greater OR lower than MK's at that time (ex. he has the Gigant Sword as his 'sword' ability, if he eats MK's he will still get the MK Sword).He is eating the character and copying them, as intended, on a level equal to their character. It's like, eldrich primordial magic shit explained via Miiverse posts. Kirby is good at copying.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 2:16:45 PM #23:	Eddv posted... I mean I think Tifa is screwed, shes already damaged and without any defenses beyond her raw skill and there are any number of reasons starting that close to an airborne kirby is bad for her and the knockbacks mean that they arent surrounded - theyre 10 feet away with Tifa and then they get Kiryu and THEN Zenos, if he chooses to close with them instead of going after Sagat and Tusk. So for me its about how long Aigis and Kirby hold out vs Zenos and Kiryu since Selvaria isnt getting involved in this fight. And really, that turns this fight into a 2 on 1 Sagat and Tusk vs Selvaria and Kiryu and Zenos vs Kirby and Aigis. I dont know anything about Tusk, which really looks like the key here. Tusk and Sagat are not part of the initial skirmish. It takes like half a minute to fall from their starting point to my team's starting point, and that's if you just freefall (which Tusk can take but Sagat cannot). This is really not a small enough terrain to assume they'll just get to participate like that. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970951983] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Eddv posted... </cite><quote>I mean I think Tifa is screwed, shes already damaged and without any defenses beyond her raw skill and there are any number of reasons starting that close to an airborne kirby is bad for her and the knockbacks mean that they arent surrounded - theyre 10 feet away with Tifa and then they get Kiryu and THEN Zenos, if he chooses to close with them instead of going after Sagat and Tusk. So for me its about how long Aigis and Kirby hold out vs Zenos and Kiryu since Selvaria isnt getting involved in this fight. And really, that turns this fight into a 2 on 1 Sagat and Tusk vs Selvaria and Kiryu and Zenos vs Kirby and Aigis. I dont know anything about Tusk, which really looks like the key here.</quote>Tusk and Sagat are not part of the initial skirmish. It takes like half a minute to fall from their starting point to my team's starting point, and that's if you just freefall (which Tusk can take but Sagat cannot). This is really not a small enough terrain to assume they'll just get to participate like that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drakeryn 01/19/23 2:19:09 PM #24:	more thoughts: I don't think the Selvaria command is going to matter particularly much Selvaria "will believe [the] advice to be from a reputable source" which means she will believe it's genuinely from Zenos. but Zenos is not actually her lord or superior officer. in this setting, he's just a fellow soldier. so it's like "okay, Zenos wants me to do this extremely inefficient thing because he wants a hot pants duel" and is she going to do it for him, for that reason? probably not --- another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high <cite>Drakeryn posted [p:970952025] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>more thoughts: I don't think the Selvaria command is going to matter particularly muchSelvaria "will believe [the] advice to be from a reputable source" which means she will believe it's genuinely from Zenos. but Zenos is not actually her lord or superior officer. in this setting, he's just a fellow soldier. so it's like "okay, Zenos wants me to do this extremely inefficient thing because he wants a hot pants duel" and is she going to do it for him, for that reason? probably not</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 01/19/23 2:19:13 PM #25:	So I digested what's happening it feels like Zenos's team is way better even if Kirby and Aigis successfully escape which is not a given even with the message from dear leader Zenos But don't know this Tusk thing though. Maybe I should actually read the hype wall. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:970952029] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>So I digested what's happening it feels like Zenos's team is way better even if Kirby and Aigis successfully escape which is not a given even with the message from dear leader ZenosBut don't know this Tusk thing though.Maybe I should actually read the hype wall. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mewtwo59 01/19/23 2:20:53 PM #26:	There's no quick way for Sagat and Tusk to get to the starting point unless the warp cauldrons or Dingpot are there. Banjo and Kazooie needed Dingpot to get to the top of the lair, so Tusk and Sagat aren't getting there if the lair is empty (unless Tusk can fly. I don't know him at all). And even then, Sagat isn't surviving that fall like Grunty did. The closest warp cauldron that can get them somewhere close to the entrance is around the entrance to Click Clock Wood, and that's assuming that it's there, they know that it's there, and they know that it'll take them where they need to go. That's too much of a stretch for me. --- ""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47 <cite>Mewtwo59 posted [p:970952054] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>There's no quick way for Sagat and Tusk to get to the starting point unless the warp cauldrons or Dingpot are there. Banjo and Kazooie needed Dingpot to get to the top of the lair, so Tusk and Sagat aren't getting there if the lair is empty (unless Tusk can fly. I don't know him at all). And even then, Sagat isn't surviving that fall like Grunty did. The closest warp cauldron that can get them somewhere close to the entrance is around the entrance to Click Clock Wood, and that's assuming that it's there, they know that it's there, and they know that it'll take them where they need to go. That's too much of a stretch for me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 2:21:04 PM #27:	KanzarisKelshen posted... Sir, this is from the same game where Kanji fights with a normal-ass chair Not that I'm opposed to free hype for my own mercenary, but there's still a vast gulf in power here between what you'd reasonably expect Yu to do with sword strikes vs what Zenos can do while beasting out, considering his baseline is shattering the guard of warriors who block swords the size of a tenement building and effortlessly resisting attacks from people who blow up artillery platforms. Whatever Yu can do, Zenos can outdo trivially. Aigis is very very done for. I will not take Kanji disrespect. That is a chair given the power of the collective unconscious and fueled by Take-Mikazuchi. That chair is as powerful as you THINK a chair shot in wrestling is, where it writes you off of TV for a few months. Either that or chair is equal to Labrys, who again, cleave through military grade steel gate in not-gameplay, making it the strongest chair in the world. I'm not arguing Zenos can't outdo it. But I feel there are multiple people's reactions (Kirby, Selvaria, and Zenos) that have to be taken into account, and Zenos has to not just win that three way quick-draw, but make up the most ground doing so (actually going to attack Aigis versus Kirby parrying directly next to Aigis versus Selvaria putting an ANYTHING in the middle of that clash). --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970952059] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>Sir, this is from the same game where Kanji fights with a normal-ass chairNot that I'm opposed to free hype for my own mercenary, but there's still a vast gulf in power here between what you'd reasonably expect Yu to do with sword strikes vs what Zenos can do while beasting out, considering his baseline is shattering the guard of warriors who block swords the size of a tenement building and effortlessly resisting attacks from people who blow up artillery platforms. Whatever Yu can do, Zenos can outdo trivially. Aigis is very very done for.</quote>I will not take Kanji disrespect. That is a chair given the power of the collective unconscious and fueled by Take-Mikazuchi. That chair is as powerful as you THINK a chair shot in wrestling is, where it writes you off of TV for a few months. Either that or chair is equal to Labrys, who again, cleave through military grade steel gate in not-gameplay, making it the strongest chair in the world.I'm not arguing Zenos can't outdo it. But I feel there are multiple people's reactions (Kirby, Selvaria, and Zenos) that have to be taken into account, and Zenos has to not just win that three way quick-draw, but make up the most ground doing so (actually going to attack Aigis versus Kirby parrying directly next to Aigis versus Selvaria putting an ANYTHING in the middle of that clash).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drakeryn 01/19/23 2:21:55 PM #28:	btw why does kamek literally always have the weaker team in raw power but the cool-ass meme strats. did you guys deliberately set this up this way as a throwback or what --- another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high <cite>Drakeryn posted [p:970952079] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>btw why does kamek literally always have the weaker team in raw power but the cool-ass meme strats. did you guys deliberately set this up this way as a throwback or what</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 01/19/23 2:22:44 PM #29:	Drakeryn posted... Selvaria "will believe [the] advice to be from a reputable source" which means she will believe it's genuinely from Zenos. but Zenos is not actually her lord or superior officer. in this setting, he's just a fellow soldier. so it's like "okay, Zenos wants me to do this extremely inefficient thing because he wants a hot pants duel" and is she going to do it for him, for that reason? probably not This is a good point If Selvaria actually treated Zenos like her lord or commander she definitely does this given her personality but is there any reason to assume she'd treat him as such. I don't know what sorcery is actually going on but yeah maybe this would have been more effective if it didn't come off as Zenos just wanting glorious battle-- actual consequences to not protecting the girl and the pink creature. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:970952094] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Drakeryn posted... </cite><quote>Selvaria "will believe [the] advice to be from a reputable source" which means she will believe it's genuinely from Zenos. but Zenos is not actually her lord or superior officer. in this setting, he's just a fellow soldier. so it's like "okay, Zenos wants me to do this extremely inefficient thing because he wants a hot pants duel" and is she going to do it for him, for that reason? probably not</quote>This is a good point If Selvaria actually treated Zenos like her lord or commander she definitely does this given her personality but is there any reason to assume she'd treat him as such. I don't know what sorcery is actually going on but yeah maybe this would have been more effective if it didn't come off as Zenos just wanting glorious battle-- actual consequences to not protecting the girl and the pink creature. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv 01/19/23 2:23:15 PM #30:	KanzarisKelshen posted... Tusk and Sagat are not part of the initial skirmish. It takes like half a minute to fall from their starting point to my team's starting point, and that's if you just freefall (which Tusk can take but Sagat cannot). This is really not a small enough terrain to assume they'll just get to participate like that. Selvaria is going to them bro. --- Board 8's Voice of Reason https://i.imgur.com/AWY4xHy.jpg <cite>Eddv posted [p:970952108] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>Tusk and Sagat are not part of the initial skirmish. It takes like half a minute to fall from their starting point to my team's starting point, and that's if you just freefall (which Tusk can take but Sagat cannot). This is really not a small enough terrain to assume they'll just get to participate like that.</quote>Selvaria is going to them bro. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 2:26:35 PM #31:	KanzarisKelshen posted... I can think of several instances of him getting thrust into immediate combat (his confrontation with Gaius and Estinien; the ambush attempt from Yugiri and the Warrior of Light) and he's immediately capable of kicking it into high gear. Why on earth would you pick two fights where he lets all of the characters in question leave alive as your counterexamples? Drakeryn posted... Zenos is not actually her lord or superior officer. I believe she really does consider him as such, it's part of her intrinsic on-purchase ability. I'm going to need some more info on Kirby, I think, it's kind of hard to believe he can copy everything 100% but the last Kirby game I played was Kirby 64 --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970952153] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>I can think of several instances of him getting thrust into immediate combat (his confrontation with Gaius and Estinien; the ambush attempt from Yugiri and the Warrior of Light) and he's immediately capable of kicking it into high gear.</quote>Why on earth would you pick two fights where he lets all of the characters in question leave alive as your counterexamples?Drakeryn posted... </cite><quote>Zenos is not actually her lord or superior officer.</quote>I believe she really does consider him as such, it's part of her intrinsic on-purchase ability.I'm going to need some more info on Kirby, I think, it's kind of hard to believe he can copy everything 100% but the last Kirby game I played was Kirby 64</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 2:27:38 PM #32:	Based on abilities, Selvaria treats Zenos like her lord/commander. It's right dere on the wiki page. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970952175] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Based on abilities, Selvaria treats Zenos like her lord/commander.It's right dere on the wiki page.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chaeix 01/19/23 2:29:26 PM #33:	inclined to think that aigis and Kirby are dead before selvaria can finish her sentence also the advice being from a reputable source doesnt make it advice worth following. I would expect any reasonably intelligent Merc (who I generally consider to be self aware of the fact theyre in a fight to the death) to discount advice that says dont kill your enemies --- we're all buds~jc~ <DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs <cite>Chaeix posted [p:970952209] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>inclined to think that aigis and Kirby are dead before selvaria can finish her sentencealso the advice being from a reputable source doesnt make it advice worth following. I would expect any reasonably intelligent Merc (who I generally consider to be self aware of the fact theyre in a fight to the death) to discount advice that says dont kill your enemies</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drakeryn 01/19/23 2:29:30 PM #34:	ohh okay (maybe that should go in the writeup) --- another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high <cite>Drakeryn posted [p:970952212] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>ohh okay (maybe that should go in the writeup)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 01/19/23 2:29:32 PM #35:	Selvaria will prioritize the safety of Zenos over all else Seems like this needed workshopping if the intent of this was for her to treat him like her commander and not just someone she needs to bodyguard. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:970952213] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Selvaria will prioritize the safety of Zenos over all elseSeems like this needed workshopping if the intent of this was for her to treat him like her commander and not just someone she needs to bodyguard.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 2:31:16 PM #36:	Drakeryn posted... btw why does kamek literally always have the weaker team in raw power but the cool-ass meme strats. did you guys deliberately set this up this way as a throwback or what Honest answer? I got obscenely lucky and accidentally dismantled his setup to win through sheer power by Kiryu's K.Rool I dodged a monumental bullet to avoid getting crunched through a mix of luck and correct-but-not-quite-the-full-picture analysis ...So yes, it was a throwback but not a planned one. Mercs just reinforces who we are, truly Kamekguy posted... I will not take Kanji disrespect. That is a chair given the power of the collective unconscious and fueled by Take-Mikazuchi. That chair is as powerful as you THINK a chair shot in wrestling is, where it writes you off of TV for a few months. Either that or chair is equal to Labrys, who again, cleave through military grade steel gate in not-gameplay, making it the strongest chair in the world. I'm not arguing Zenos can't outdo it. But I feel there are multiple people's reactions (Kirby, Selvaria, and Zenos) that have to be taken into account, and Zenos has to not just win that three way quick-draw, but make up the most ground doing so (actually going to attack Aigis versus Kirby parrying directly next to Aigis versus Selvaria putting an ANYTHING in the middle of that clash). Granted on the Kanji respect. It's true that offensively, Persona characters are very good for their weight class and it's not actually a demerit to Aigis that she'd have a tough match with Yu. As far as Zenos' reflexes go though...Zenos was, quite literally an iaijutsu practitioner. Y'know, the whole 'blink and you'll miss it samurai quickdraw' thing? Coupled with his natural biological advantages that make him superhuman, there's zero reason to think he won't be first on the draw. It's something he has actually, directly trained for. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970952253] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Drakeryn posted... </cite><quote>btw why does kamek literally always have the weaker team in raw power but the cool-ass meme strats. did you guys deliberately set this up this way as a throwback or what</quote>Honest answer? I got obscenely lucky and accidentally dismantled his setup to win through sheer power by Kiryu's K.RoolI dodged a monumental bullet to avoid getting crunched through a mix of luck and correct-but-not-quite-the-full-picture analysis...So yes, it was a throwback but not a planned one. Mercs just reinforces who we are, trulyKamekguy posted... </cite><quote>I will not take Kanji disrespect. That is a chair given the power of the collective unconscious and fueled by Take-Mikazuchi. That chair is as powerful as you THINK a chair shot in wrestling is, where it writes you off of TV for a few months. Either that or chair is equal to Labrys, who again, cleave through military grade steel gate in not-gameplay, making it the strongest chair in the world.I'm not arguing Zenos can't outdo it. But I feel there are multiple people's reactions (Kirby, Selvaria, and Zenos) that have to be taken into account, and Zenos has to not just win that three way quick-draw, but make up the most ground doing so (actually going to attack Aigis versus Kirby parrying directly next to Aigis versus Selvaria putting an ANYTHING in the middle of that clash).</quote>Granted on the Kanji respect. It's true that offensively, Persona characters are very good for their weight class and it's not actually a demerit to Aigis that she'd have a tough match with Yu. As far as Zenos' reflexes go though...Zenos was, quite literally an iaijutsu practitioner. Y'know, the whole 'blink and you'll miss it samurai quickdraw' thing? Coupled with his natural biological advantages that make him superhuman, there's zero reason to think he won't be first on the draw. It's something he has actually, directly trained for.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chaeix 01/19/23 2:31:48 PM #37:	also why would Zenos listen to selvaria team! stop, dont kill them, our lord zenos has demanded clemency i did no such thing wtf --- we're all buds~jc~ <DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs <cite>Chaeix posted [p:970952264] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>also why would Zenos listen to selvariateam! stop, dont kill them, our lord zenos has demanded clemencyi did no such thing wtf</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 2:32:51 PM #38:	trdl23 posted... Why on earth would you pick two fights where he lets all of the characters in question leave alive as your counterexamples? I believe she really does consider him as such, it's part of her intrinsic on-purchase ability. I'm going to need some more info on Kirby, I think, it's kind of hard to believe he can copy everything 100% but the last Kirby game I played was Kirby 64 Because he lets them live after kicking their asses six ways to sunday, and the Warrior of Light, Gaius and Estinien can all actually take some of the beatings Zenos dishes out. No such luck for Kirby and a mauled Aegis IMO. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970952288] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>trdl23 posted... </cite><quote>Why on earth would you pick two fights where he lets all of the characters in question leave alive as your counterexamples?I believe she really does consider him as such, it's part of her intrinsic on-purchase ability.I'm going to need some more info on Kirby, I think, it's kind of hard to believe he can copy everything 100% but the last Kirby game I played was Kirby 64</quote>Because he lets them live after kicking their asses six ways to sunday, and the Warrior of Light, Gaius and Estinien can all actually take some of the beatings Zenos dishes out. No such luck for Kirby and a mauled Aegis IMO.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 2:34:41 PM #39:	(also for whatever it's worth, Selvaria's writeup is exactly as it was in M4. We changed nothing except, IIRC, fixing a typo on the Ruhm's name. I'm surprised this never came up there actually -- it can be fixed if people feel it's important.) --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970952321] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>(also for whatever it's worth, Selvaria's writeup is exactly as it was in M4. We changed nothing except, IIRC, fixing a typo on the Ruhm's name. I'm surprised this never came up there actually -- it can be fixed if people feel it's important.)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 2:35:24 PM #40:	Zenos listens to Fordola just fine. He will listen to compatriots he respects and who show no cowardice in the thrill of the hunt, which Selvaria qualifies for imo. If it were Kiryu or Tifa, not a chance. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970952335] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Zenos listens to Fordola just fine. He will listen to compatriots he respects and who show no cowardice in the thrill of the hunt, which Selvaria qualifies for imo. If it were Kiryu or Tifa, not a chance.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 2:35:43 PM #41:	trdl23 posted... I'm going to need some more info on Kirby, I think, it's kind of hard to believe he can copy everything 100% but the last Kirby game I played was Kirby 64 Alrighty, lemme use Morpho Knight as an example. Morpho Knight is the tiny butterfly you see at the start of most Kirby games. He's actually a cross-dimensional being who travels realities looking for beings made of the 'matters' to devour, such as Galacta Knight and Kirby (Kirby does not get instantly absorbed by this butterfly, by the way, unlike "the strongest warrior in the universe"). In Forgotten Land, Kirby gets his weapon, the Morpho Knight sword. https://youtu.be/vmqbtf4r7uk Not only does he get the sword itself, as well as the skill of Morpho Knight (who has absorbed Galacta Knight, who is like ancient Majin Buu-ass Meta Knight sealed away great evil swordsman, they're really good at swords is my point), he is also able to make the sword giant, shoot out Morpho's disruption waves (which causes friends to turn against each other for a moment in Star Allies, as a counter to Kirby's ability to bring friends together with hearts), spam short-range teleports, make his sword grow real big, shoot tornadoes, and even summon the soul of Fecto Forgo to attack people, someone who was recently absorbed by Morpho Knight. He even gets lifesteal on all of his attacks, absorbing his foes as he fights! It's not just the simple concept of "oh I eat Zenos I get cool scythe and my reflexes super good~". All of Zenos' abilities, magical or even obtained from another source, are within Kirby. Also Kirby has this form right now so like. If you wanna take "he ate the strongest warrior in his universe" at face value, please go right ahead! --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970952341] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>trdl23 posted... </cite><quote>I'm going to need some more info on Kirby, I think, it's kind of hard to believe he can copy everything 100% but the last Kirby game I played was Kirby 64</quote>Alrighty, lemme use Morpho Knight as an example. Morpho Knight is the tiny butterfly you see at the start of most Kirby games. He's actually a cross-dimensional being who travels realities looking for beings made of the 'matters' to devour, such as Galacta Knight and Kirby (Kirby does not get instantly absorbed by this butterfly, by the way, unlike "the strongest warrior in the universe"). In Forgotten Land, Kirby gets his weapon, the Morpho Knight sword.https://youtu.be/vmqbtf4r7ukNot only does he get the sword itself, as well as the skill of Morpho Knight (who has absorbed Galacta Knight, who is like ancient Majin Buu-ass Meta Knight sealed away great evil swordsman, they're really good at swords is my point), he is also able to make the sword giant, shoot out Morpho's disruption waves (which causes friends to turn against each other for a moment in Star Allies, as a counter to Kirby's ability to bring friends together with hearts), spam short-range teleports, make his sword grow real big, shoot tornadoes, and even summon the soul of Fecto Forgo to attack people, someone who was recently absorbed by Morpho Knight. He even gets lifesteal on all of his attacks, absorbing his foes as he fights!It's not just the simple concept of "oh I eat Zenos I get cool scythe and my reflexes super good~". All of Zenos' abilities, magical or even obtained from another source, are within Kirby.Also Kirby has this form right now so like. If you wanna take "he ate the strongest warrior in his universe" at face value, please go right ahead!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 01/19/23 2:36:28 PM #42:	Chaeix posted... also why would Zenos listen to selvaria team! stop, dont kill them, our lord zenos has demanded clemency i did no such thing wtf This is true Even if you assume Selvaria listens and is able to stave off her team's aggression immediately so that Kirby and Aigis can start to retreat It seems like this becomes a Spider-Man point situation where the conclusion becomes "well maybe Zenos didn't have his mind screwed with but Selvaria had hers" and she basically has to stop them by force which I don't think she does given the phrasing of the command. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:970952356] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Chaeix posted... </cite><quote>also why would Zenos listen to selvariateam! stop, dont kill them, our lord zenos has demanded clemencyi did no such thing wtf</quote>This is trueEven if you assume Selvaria listens and is able to stave off her team's aggression immediately so that Kirby and Aigis can start to retreatIt seems like this becomes a Spider-Man point situation where the conclusion becomes "well maybe Zenos didn't have his mind screwed with but Selvaria had hers" and she basically has to stop them by force which I don't think she does given the phrasing of the command.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 2:36:50 PM #43:	KanzarisKelshen posted... Because he lets them live after kicking their asses six ways to sunday, and the Warrior of Light, Gaius and Estinien can all actually take some of the beatings Zenos dishes out. No such luck for Kirby and a mauled Aegis IMO. He doesn't even lay a finger on Gaius and Estinien, he gets interrupted by Garlean guards coming after them and gets annoyed at there being interference, so he just walks away. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970952359] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>Because he lets them live after kicking their asses six ways to sunday, and the Warrior of Light, Gaius and Estinien can all actually take some of the beatings Zenos dishes out. No such luck for Kirby and a mauled Aegis IMO.</quote>He doesn't even lay a finger on Gaius and Estinien, he gets interrupted by Garlean guards coming after them and gets annoyed at there being interference, so he just walks away.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 2:38:46 PM #44:	For a more specific explanation of why I mentioned the Yugiri/WoL instance: https://youtu.be/b-tLCNABW-0?t=140 Stealthy ninja tries to sneak attack him. Zenos, with zero prior indication of being aware she's even there, manages to react so quickly he completely parries and no-sell the assassination attempt. Dude's reflexes really shouldn't be in any question. Selvaria's quick, but not Zenos levels of quick nor trained in the art of zero to murder combat the way he is. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970952396] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>For a more specific explanation of why I mentioned the Yugiri/WoL instance:https://youtu.be/b-tLCNABW-0?t=140Stealthy ninja tries to sneak attack him. Zenos, with zero prior indication of being aware she's even there, manages to react so quickly he completely parries and no-sell the assassination attempt. Dude's reflexes really shouldn't be in any question. Selvaria's quick, but not Zenos levels of quick nor trained in the art of zero to murder combat the way he is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 01/19/23 2:41:23 PM #45:	Like the big thing is like Selvaria: "NO BUT ZENOS SAID" Zenos: "No I didn't" Kiryu: "No he didnt." Sagat: "Tiger!" Tifa: "No he didn't" Selvaria: "Well he only said it to me and he was forget it" Tifa: "But why tho" Zenos: "I'd tell this to everyone" Sagat: "Tiger!" Kiryu: "Good point Sagat, but what are you doing here" Something like that. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:970952447] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Like the big thing is likeSelvaria: "NO BUT ZENOS SAID"Zenos: "No I didn't"Kiryu: "No he didnt."Sagat: "Tiger!"Tifa: "No he didn't"Selvaria: "Well he only said it to me and he was forget it"Tifa: "But why tho"Zenos: "I'd tell this to everyone"Sagat: "Tiger!" Kiryu: "Good point Sagat, but what are you doing here"Something like that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 2:43:02 PM #46:	Lopen posted... Zenos: "I'd tell this to everyone" Actually yeah, this is a strong point. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970952483] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Lopen posted... </cite><quote>Zenos: "I'd tell this to everyone"</quote>Actually yeah, this is a strong point.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 2:44:06 PM #47:	https://youtu.be/Ksa1lxoN-e8 I just think he's neat and has less distance to close to draw a weapon = ) All I need is one second. Kirby's regular abilities (Wheel, Twin Drill, Morpho Sword) all have elements perfect for running away, the former two WITH Aigis. Kirby can create that opening. Selvaria can create that opening. I really should've used a Tiger Shot on Zenos in retrospect but didn't wanna piss Selvaria off. Also I would not be here if I was not creating a meme-ass strat backed up by "hol' up, this is kinda disgusting". Winning is boring, winning in ways people can't predict? That's class. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970952511] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>https://youtu.be/Ksa1lxoN-e8I just think he's neat and has less distance to close to draw a weapon = )All I need is one second. Kirby's regular abilities (Wheel, Twin Drill, Morpho Sword) all have elements perfect for running away, the former two WITH Aigis. Kirby can create that opening. Selvaria can create that opening. I really should've used a Tiger Shot on Zenos in retrospect but didn't wanna piss Selvaria off.Also I would not be here if I was not creating a meme-ass strat backed up by "hol' up, this is kinda disgusting". Winning is boring, winning in ways people can't predict? That's class.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 01/19/23 2:45:08 PM #48:	One thing I'm not fully sold on is Aigis. I get how Kirby gets away but how does she? Can she survive the initial onslaught? Trying to understand what Persona characters can do is difficult even when I've played the game, and hers I haven't. From what I can tell from her she's at her best at a range, but doesn't seem to be exceptionally mobile or durable. Initially I think Kirby and Aigis clear some space. While Zenos looks crazy strong, he's not exactly in a rush to start up his attacks. I do think Selvaria and Zenos follow THE PLAN and it eventually becomes essentially Selvaria & Zenos v. Tusk, Aigis & Kirby Of those, I think Selvaria counters Aigis pretty well, but with Kirbyon her side that might give the slight edge Tusk v Zenos I have no idea --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:970952531] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>One thing I'm not fully sold on is Aigis. I get how Kirby gets away but how does she? Can she survive the initial onslaught? Trying to understand what Persona characters can do is difficult even when I've played the game, and hers I haven't. From what I can tell from her she's at her best at a range, but doesn't seem to be exceptionally mobile or durable. Initially I think Kirby and Aigis clear some space. While Zenos looks crazy strong, he's not exactly in a rush to start up his attacks. I do think Selvaria and Zenos follow THE PLAN and it eventually becomes essentially Selvaria & Zenos v. Tusk, Aigis & KirbyOf those, I think Selvaria counters Aigis pretty well, but with Kirbyon her side that might give the slight edgeTusk v Zenos I have no idea</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 2:45:17 PM #49:	Lopen posted... Like the big thing is like Selvaria: "NO BUT ZENOS SAID" Zenos: "No I didn't" Kiryu: "No he didnt." Sagat: "Tiger!" Tifa: "No he didn't" Selvaria: "Well he only said it to me and he was forget it" Tifa: "But why tho" Zenos: "I'd tell this to everyone" Sagat: "Tiger!" Kiryu: "Good point Sagat, but what are you doing here" Something like that. This is absolutely how it'd go. The team isn't going to have a long discussion about this with Kirby and Aigis right there. At most you get something like "Lord Zenos, STOP!", "Why would I ever do such a thing?" and then bodies hit the floor. It takes, as a reminder, 20 to 30 seconds of freefall to reach the bottom of Grunty's lair and Kirby and Aigis' team is at the top. There is no hope of covering enough of that distance before someone dies here. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970952536] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>Lopen posted... </cite><quote>Like the big thing is likeSelvaria: "NO BUT ZENOS SAID"Zenos: "No I didn't"Kiryu: "No he didnt."Sagat: "Tiger!"Tifa: "No he didn't"Selvaria: "Well he only said it to me and he was forget it"Tifa: "But why tho"Zenos: "I'd tell this to everyone"Sagat: "Tiger!" Kiryu: "Good point Sagat, but what are you doing here"Something like that.</quote>This is absolutely how it'd go. The team isn't going to have a long discussion about this with Kirby and Aigis right there. At most you get something like "Lord Zenos, STOP!", "Why would I ever do such a thing?" and then bodies hit the floor. It takes, as a reminder, 20 to 30 seconds of freefall to reach the bottom of Grunty's lair and Kirby and Aigis' team is at the top. There is no hope of covering enough of that distance before someone dies here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 01/19/23 2:45:41 PM #50:	wow there are so many new posts in the time I typed that up I forgot that's how this tends to go --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:970952543] in ~FIGHT!~ Z... [t:80317205]...</cite> <quote>wow there are so many new posts in the time I typed that upI forgot that's how this tends to go</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Zenos, Selvaria, Tifa, Kiryu vs. Tusk, Aigis, Kirby, Sagat (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Zenos, Selvaria, Tifa, Kiryu vs. Tusk, Aigis, Kirby, Sagat