Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 2 - The sequel should be called 'Paper Bowser'!

(+) Yeah! (+)

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yet the connection is him being incorrect and the person he's incorrect about being Scum.

Scum for like, a sentence that you thought read as LOUD when Sultan has, in fact, been much more vocal as a Town player.

Being Loud Wrong is a town tell.

Sbell doing this and Sultan being scum are tangentially connected

What if SBell is Loud Right?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

What if SBell is Loud Right?

Then it is no longer a town tell

UltimaterializerX posted...

Sounds like I can just go back to sleep.

lol, you're getting that completely out of context, you still need to catch up.

PLEASE MOVE TO THIS TOPIC AT 450

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80343279

Dumey has been pretty lazy since his spat with me. And for how much he's thrown names around, it's upsetting to not see a vote from him.

Wait i take it back he's on isquen????

I just think in general, being "loud wrong" as a town tell is really kind of a silly standard. As scum, your goal is to confidently lead a mislynch and say, "oops, guess I messed up!" Like being Loud Wrong is the Scum Standard. I understand Plum is saying that this is a specific player read on SBell, but I feel like there has to be some extra layer of scrutiny there.

Like for example, I don't think HB is town because he was confidently wrong about the Sultan information. I think he's town because of how he dug in and got frustrated with everyone after multiple people fact checked him. I think scum would be more way of digging in like that and maybe look for a way out of the situation instead. (Though I will say I don't think HB should be allowed to coast on multiple people calling him town and not contribute anything else. He should offer opinions on non-Sultan things if he wants to keep Town cred.)

There has to be some additional context more here on SBell than just, "he's wrong about something."

Wait so plum os now saying Sbell protecting me is a town tell?

He did the same thing last game and I was town and he was scum?
Plum what?

Ok yeah I'm going to reread more after work today. I have not been able to follow as well as i normally do.

Peace___Frog posted...

Dumey has been pretty lazy since his spat with me. And for how much he's thrown names around, it's upsetting to not see a vote from him.

i'm not sure how you can call me lazy when i clearly went through some effort to do multiple ISOs and posted my thoughts on them. This is the second time you've accused someone of not having a vote down or showing conviction when they did in fact have a vote down.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Wait so plum os now saying Sbell protecting me is a town tell?

He did the same thing last game and I was town and he was scum?
Plum what?

no me being Loud and Wrong is the town tell, to Plum.

You are not the focal point of this.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Wait so plum os now saying Sbell protecting me is a town tell?

He did the same thing last game and I was town and he was scum?
Plum what?

Its not protecting you, it's him loudly exclaiming his disdain for an argument

masterplum posted...

Its not protecting you, it's him loudly exclaiming his disdain for an argument

Got ya

EDumey posted...

i'm not sure how you can call me lazy when i clearly went through some effort to do multiple ISOs and posted my thoughts on them. This is the second time you've accused someone of not having a vote down or showing conviction when they did in fact have a vote down.

Yeah. Perhaps it's projection and I'm being the lazy one. Damn.

Yeah, I just finished checking back through and tbh, I can't say that I find your body of work particularly engaging Peaf. The point where you were seconding Hb to toss shade onto people defending Sultan felt very Scummy too.

Usually my metric for Townreads d1 is "do I have a reason to think this person is Town" and I don't have a reason for you.

I stand behind that though. Pocketing sultan (or any player, really) with very little to go off of is not a bad play for scum to make! I find it very unlikely that everyone who defended sultan is town.

Scum knows who is not scum, and buddying up to not scum is a tried and true method, is it not?

Peace___Frog posted...

I stand behind that though. Pocketing sultan (or any player, really) with very little to go off of is not a bad play for scum to make! I find it very unlikely that everyone who defended sultan is town.

Scum knows who is not scum, and buddying up to not scum is a tried and true method, is it not?

I can agree to this. Part of the huge reason Sbell fooled me last game is he really really painted the picture of me being town and agreed to alotnof my thoughts and I felt I was on the same wave length with him and yeah he pocketed me good

Peace___Frog posted...

I stand behind that though. Pocketing sultan (or any player, really) with very little to go off of is not a bad play for scum to make! I find it very unlikely that everyone who defended sultan is town.

Scum knows who is not scum, and buddying up to not scum is a tried and true method, is it not?

Sultan has traditionally been a very easy-read player, though.

Honestly, with people voting for him and people defending him, I'd say the people who are hands-off are more likely to be Scum.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I can agree to this. Part of the huge reason Sbell fooled me last game is he really really painted the picture of me being town and agreed to alotnof my thoughts and I felt I was on the same wave length with him and yeah he pocketed me good

call it self serving but the difference here is I don't even know your stances thus game really. I just read your interaction with ctes and was able to move you to my town list.

Obellisk posted...

call it self serving but the difference here is I don't even know your stances thus game really. I just read your interaction with ctes and was able to move you to my town list.

Okay

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Sultan has traditionally been a very easy-read player, though.

I disagree, perhaps because I'm bad. I think i mentioned it last game, but i came into d2 planning to go aggro on sultan but you killed him.

So while i agree on this instance for this game that sultan is in my lean town list, i do not think that every single person who jumped to his immediate defense was town. The difference is in timing and dare i say... loudness.

If you'd prefer that I said that to begin with and not reference hb saying the same thing, then i think that you and i just have a different idea of communication over text based formats in this instance. You're welcome to call me scum, but this thing that you're saying was scummy is one i will disagree on.

I also dont really know what made Sultan so obviously town last game and I wish I'd paid attention more now.

I dont know if Sbell being wrong has nothing to do with Sultan tho, considering that Plum seemed even more emboldened to pursue Sultan afterwards

...I realy could have switched those two sentences around

7 people haven't voted.. that is odd.

Cody and Ulti I guess get an excuse
So 5 people

Unless I missed something

Ben
Cody
Ctes
Death
Peaf * hasn't stayed in anyone According to votals
Red
Ulti

Laying low scum perhaps idk

Death doesn't vote even when a scan is looking at him right in the face, so that's a null tell for him.

If day ended in 20 then I'd say plum or sbell for right now, but I've only been able to go back through the very early day 1 posts.

##Unvote: Peaf
##Vote: Isquen

Let's create some momentum then. Nobody else seems to be picking up nasties from Peaf and I'll admit that him side-shading me could be painting my impression.

Isquen posted...

Something about this seems off (and apologies for my future inactivity, today's commuting day and I'm leaving in a few minutes.)

Sultan: your reaction to my post was extremely delayed. I was around for HOURS after that, why are you pointing it out so long after I went to bed?

Kirby: Glazing over your word, you salad neglected the Origami King. Shame.

Lea: I'm not entirely happy with how quickly you jumped on the Kirby vote with Han, even if the reaction Kirby gave is a bit telling. But...

Sultan again: What was that vote. What.

This is the Isquen post in question, and it's very much a say-nothing kind of post

Oh Isquen did mention one other vote on Kirby (Lea's)
I stand corrected there, but now I have to ask why he treated hers differently from Sultans when he already said Kirby's reaction was telling

(and what reaction specifically?)

Oh I'm picking up nasties from Peaf, I just didn't think it was appropriate to talk about in public.

Isquen posts #53 and #241 are also worth looking back at.

Isquen posted...

Whoops, wrong topic. Gotta catch up on this one.

What I posted a few minutes ago:

I've been watching but only idly so. Lunch break now. Conspiracy brain is going "yes, Sultan scum but with a weak role and hides it badly, smokescreen being set up by bussers with stronger roles."

Peaf and Dumey read as OMGUSing each other, which feels like a town on town pissing contest. Just a gut feeling.

On skim, hb's opinions largely align with mine... which opens up a whole other list of reads from the outside that I do believe I'll keep to myself until I can get home and think it out a bit more. For now, though, I'm of the belief he's town.

Isquen posted...

Awake and less concerned about IRL mortality. I do, however, have to get ready+go to work in an hour.

Lying-in-bed stream of consciousness thoughts as I skim:
- Lea leaning more townish, now. Scum Lea has been more flippant than that. Not a hard clear.
- ctes townlist does the "I'm town haha but not really" list of Oops! All Townreads and doesn't say anything negative/scumreading about anyone. Unbounded optimism makes me raise an eyebrow.
- Dumey, hello! I am not scum and am always very forthright about my unavailability no matter my alignment (with one notable case being the one over Christmas when I was travelling the entire EOD, got a smoking gun scan as evil, and died for it.) A lot of my reads, such as they are, get based on who gets convenient short term memory loss and goes after inactives that announced they'd be inactive. Sometimes it's a joke, sometimes it isn't. On that note:
- While it doesn't 100 percent clear him, a talkative red is usually scummy. This has not been a talkative red.
- On the subject of Ben, cut and paste that last point.

I have no hard scum reads right now. Sultan still looks awful to me and I can't quite put my finger on why. One nagging suspicion is because I pointed out the term "OMGUS" being questioned and I could SWEAR he's been in a game where it has been thrown around before.

The ISO question from someone else looked more genuine (and I always took it as "isolating the poster in a vacuum and reading their things from there.)

...That's all that readily springs to mind. "Day 1 lol" is my usual attitude because I have nothing to go on and fights usually resolve themselves through power role actions and role flips.

Namely evaluating the second post after reading the last line of the first one.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Nobody else seems to be picking up nasties from Peaf and I'll admit that him side-shading me could be painting my impression.

Very kind of you, but dumey has shared your suspicion if you two truly wanted to pair up and make something happen.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Peaf
Justin
HB
Red
Plum
Sultan

Who among these town players from a game ago would be "loud wrong" this game as a tactic because they're suggestible enough to take a

HB has been proven to be loud and wrong if you look at our argument

UltimaterializerX posted...

Isquen looks like scum every game and is the easiest fallback day one lynch train. I'm about to start treating him like we used to treat KBM and assume anyone suspecting him day one is scum (calling Isquen "him" here in this sentence, not KBM, just for the record since I know KBM is a woman). Lazy lazy lazy analysis.

I hate these type of "we have to give player a free pass because they're bad" player reads. Ulti says "Lazy lazy lazy analysis" while admitting that he is talking without any reading of the game.

I realize you have a valid excuse to have not read the game, but I would abstain from calling others lazy when you have literally no concept of how much analysis has been done.

Ow my eyes geez

now this is shit posting

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Honestly, Red's contribution this game has been "I don't have reads like I did last game when there were only 2 scum"

Huh? This is really misconstruing. I said I didn't have a read like last game where my brain just felt confident sbell was pretty scum.

That said I am in fact totally fine with some Ben attention because his activity has been less than Ben
I mean stellar.

##Vote: Ben

(the above was a star wars pod racing joke, please laugh.)

hey sultan, dumey just made a comment about how he wants people to reply to his shitpost, you're obliged to vote him now