Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Raiden vs. Leon, Luigi, Kiryu, V, Zeratul and Mega Man

(+) Yeah! (+)

Raiden has challenged Leon Kennedy, Luigi, Kazuma Kiryu, V, Zeratul and Mega Man to a fight! Location of the fight: Towntown Stage - The town where Dr. Light's home is located, and where Rock and Roll live with him. All enemies are missing, and the full stage is otherwise accessible. Attackers will begin at Proto Eye's starting point, whereas defenders will begin at Dr. Light's house. Which side will win?

Guidelines
- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
- Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting
- Bold your votes.
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.

Raiden is as seen in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance with access to all of his weapons (save the Fox Blade) and upgrades available in that game, including the Murasama blade, as well as a full complement of grenades and stinger missiles. He has had V's Relic implanted into his brain and will start the battle at 50% of their max HP and already dying, his health gradually depleting throughout the battle as seen in the solo assault of Arasaka Tower. Though he may be healed, he may not go above 50% of their maximum health at any point. His most favourable limb has come off. He will feel no pain from losing it, but will have to make do for this week's battle without it.

~VS~

Leon Kennedy is as he appears in the Resident Evil series, including canonical supplementary media. He comes into battle with his two Wing Shooter pistols, his knife, a Lightning Hawk magnum, a handful of grenades and the Chicago Typewriter, all fully upgraded.

Luigi is as he appears in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, equipped with Master Boots, a Master Hammer, Ironclad Wear, Peachs Peppy Gloves, and a Rally Belt. He has access to all feats shown in the mainline Mario series, as well as all of his Paper Jam Bros Moves other than Mega Thwonk, which he may perform with any ally. He also has access to the Poltergust G-00, a Super Bell, a Super Leaf, and a can of Boo Repellant. He is accompanying Mega Man as an assist, and will fall in battle if he falls.

Kazuma Kiryu is as he appears in the Yakuza series, at the peak of his fighting prowess. He comes into battle equipped with three bottles of Staminan Royale, the Ama-no-Murakumo blade, Extremely Sturdy Brass Knuckles, a 9mm handgun with unlimited ammo, the Transcendent Body Armor and a motorcycle. He may use any of his fighting styles, Heat Actions and techniques as he sees fit, and starts the battle with full Heat, which will not drain unless used.

V is as he appears in Cyberpunk 2077, as a Streetkid Legend who successfully completed the solo assault on Arasaka Tower. He will be able to see and hear Johnny Silverhand during battle but otherwise will be in top condition. He has maxed out Cool, Body and Intelligence, and has all of their associated perks. He is equipped with the Dying Night, Johnny Silverhand's Malorian Arms revolver, a Netwatch Netdriver Mk.5 cyberdeck with every quickhack available, Optical Camo, Smartlink, Monowire, Reinforced Tendons, Subdermal Armor, and all Cool, Body and Intelligence focused implants, including Gorilla Arms, the Projectile Launch system and all varieties of rounds, plus the Guts and Ba Xing Chong shotguns, Defender LMG, Gold-Plated Baseball Bat, Skippy pistol (in Stone-Cold Killer mode), Yinglong SMG and Ashura sniper rifle, all at the highest possible quality level.

Mega Man is as he appears across the Mega Man series. He has access to his Mega Buster, his Magnet Beam, his dog Rush (and various Rush modes), the Double Gear system and all his weapons from the mainline Mega Man series, though Gravity Hold and Centaur Flash will share an energy pool and Flash Stopper will only have its lore effects and not stop time in any way. He also has access to his moveset from the Marvel vs Capcom series, hyper combos included.

Zeratul is as he appears in the Starcraft series and Heroes of the Storm with all of his skills except Void Prison. During combat, his cloaking works as it does in HotS, invisible until either he attacks or is damaged, at which point it takes a few seconds of non-action to reactivate.

Aight sorry. This is long be long. Going to be jumping around alot (wrote this several times while being sick RIP), but Raiden is very good on this terrain. It's really small (2D), so the enemy team of 6 is really going to get in the way of themselves here. Raiden also likes fighting in close combat, really excels at it in fact. By the time the enemy team can assess what a threat Raiden is...they'll all be dead.

https://youtu.be/NZ_ZbMOreZI?t=146

Raiden vs Vamp:

He basically no sells pain, so in this fight starting at 50% and bleeding out actually may be to his advantage. He should take all his crueler intentions into battle faster (Ripper Jack most likely). He also fights adeptly with his sword in his foot which is awesome. Keep in mind he impales himself several times and lives through it. TANKY!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJEF2wGHtVM

Raiden vs a Tanker:

Speaking of tanky...he stops a tanker from running Snake over. With ONE ARM. Speaks for itself.

https://youtu.be/uLsDG_clBDY?t=289

Raiden vs. 20 mooks with no arms:

Yeah he's still going at it. He's still lived too. He lost an arm from the tanker I assume, but he's still Raiden. So basically, Raiden is super strong, and super tanky. He's gonna drop health from his ability at a very slow rate. If V can do it, then Raiden can do it without a sweat basically.

What else can Raiden do to stave off his health depleting? Well he runs super fucking fast, and down buildings:

https://youtu.be/RypphRK14t8?t=306

Parries bullets with one arm, parries Metal Gear Ray with one arm (ignore he throws it with two arms):

https://youtu.be/RypphRK14t8?t=140

Anyway all this happens before he gets his cybernetics upgraded. Also some noteable things that Raiden has that he didn't in previous appearances:

-Full Complement of grenades, so he can use EMP grenades to full effectiveness against a largely robotic team that's clumped up,
-No meter requirements for Blade/Ripper Mode: this is full cutscene Raiden,
-Muramasa blade, which completely wrecks all machinery basically.

Anyway besides that "can he fight under these conditions?" which is a definite YES, Raiden has experience in fighting against cloaked cyborgs:

https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Stealth_Camouflage

Which means, he has experience in fighting units like Zeratul! The rest I think are either inconsequential, human, or can be dealt with cuz Raiden likes killin' robots.

i tried my best to bookmark the video at the relevant times

anyway tldr

stops a tanker with 1 arm
gets ran over by that tanker
kills 20 mooks with 0 arms

runs down buildings

kicks ass

has EMP grenades for this exact level which FUX OVER ROBOTS

lets go

Going to need a timer on Raiden because no one from the enemy team is surviving combat against him.

"Flash Stopper ( Furasshu Sutopp) is Bright Man's Special Weapon. This is not to be mistaken as Flash Man's power, Time Stopper. Unlike Time Stopper, the Flash Stopper emits an intense light that activates a safety device in the camera eyes of robots, blinding them for a short period, which makes them unable to move and open for attacks"

... this seems good. Mostly just for combining with stuff like Centaur Flash to run out Raiden's timer.

I have absolute faith Raiden can kill everyone here. I can't recall, what's his threat assessment capabilities like? Because if Mega isn't the first one gone... that's bad. (I say this knowing nothing about V other than "man Edgerunners was a good show" ).

How well can Raiden find Zeratul? Zeratul is absolutely one to let the timer run out if things get bad.

There's no timer on the drain to kill him.

Anyway, Raiden is just that tanky to tank a tanker that he's not going to bleed out any time soon.

I can dredge up some info on Raiden's bioinformatics but he has very great tracking abilities.

SirChris posted...

Going to need a timer on Raiden because no one from the enemy team is surviving combat against him.

This

Timer and size of stage. Raiden doesn't need his arm at all here so it's just about how possible it is to timer scam.

trdl23 posted...

How well can Raiden find Zeratul? Zeratul is absolutely one to let the timer run out if things get bad.

Well, how long do you think the timer runs, and is it the nerfed version seen here? Because it doesn't say when it happens, and this is such a dinky terrain that even Zeratul can't run away forever.

I mean, I've been told the bold is the law many times.

It doesn't say when he dies, just he will die. Eventually. And Raiden tanks seriously stupid stuff and survives in MGS4 when he really shouldn't.

@KanzarisKelshen @MajinZidane Tell us about V please

Wait, can't V quickhack Raiden into oblivion? He'd be massively debilitated by just that, am I wrong?

Actually yeah, unless someone can prove to me that V's hacks don't work on Raiden, I'm going with V.

And even without quickhacks, V comes from a world where people of Raiden's caliber aren't exactly rare... not seeing how this is a slam dunk for Raiden.

I'd like to see how these hacks work too, but I respect your opinion

Ganon can V quick hack on a fast moving target?

SirChris posted... Going to need a timer on Raiden because no one from the enemy team is surviving combat against him.

The timer is decently long. Something like a 5% (max) HP drain every 20 seconds? Not infinitely long but it's a gradual time to failure. We're not talking 'dead in a minute' here.

Oh wait just realized with flash mans power, V will have at least one opportunity here.

Do these hackhave a failure rate? Is there some kinda will save?

Pretty sure you can hack people much faster than Raiden in the game... someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

Lets talk terrain too what does the town look like?

V also has Reboot Optics, he can blind Raiden himself

Eddv posted...

Lets talk terrain too what does the town look like?

https://youtu.be/heK_409LiA0?t=158

It's a 2d level, so, your interpretation may vary

Cyberpsychosis - Causes the target to attack enemies and allies indiscriminately. If no other allies are nearby, the target will commit suicide.

Just throwing this out there....

https://www.ign.com/wikis/cyberpunk-2077/Cyberpunk_Hacking_Explained_and_Breach_Protocol_Tips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IalSf592rI&ab_channel=VICECh.

Here's a clip of V fighting a cyborg ninja boss fight... probably could find a better video too, don't have a ton of time right now to look stuff up

Raiden

I understand that he was hit by a lot of abilities but Raiden knowing he had a time limit is going full ripper here and most of the enemy mercs are flat out stains on the wall before they can really even do anything

Will hear out v durability feats though as I am not familiar with that one. But if they don't have those I have severe doubts they can actually scan and do something before Raiden is ripping them apart.

hmm, well i think that video speaks for itself regarding if raiden can deal with V

Hold up. Maybe I looked at the wrong video for Towntown stage, but this is NOT as small as I was led to believe. Non-Raiden team *absolutely* has time to prepare and see him coming.

Fully admit I might be over-estimating or mis-remembering V here, but in my mind V is like the perfect Raiden counter.

So Raiden has like... 3-5 minutes or so and the terrain isn't that big.

I think Raiden can just spot out Zeratul. I also think Zeratul won't just run. He may eventually choose to withdraw but it won't be his opener

To me this match boils down to "can Zeratul get a clean hit on Raiden" since Warp Blades are devastating. Not to say he one shots or anything but he could cut significant time off Raiden's lifespan

trdl23 posted...

Hold up. Maybe I looked at the wrong video for Towntown stage, but this is NOT as small as I was led to believe. Non-Raiden team *absolutely* has time to prepare and see him coming.

according to the terrain...

https://youtu.be/heK_409LiA0?t=271

starts here and goes to the wily boss in about 1 minute. its really small imo (but its 2d, YMMV)

V solos and it's not particularly close.

Let's talk exactly about why V solos. V has an intelligence build here. Intelligence unlocks quickhacks. What do quickhacks do?

Let's go over the details.

1) Breach Protocol. This is an icebreaker (ICEbreaker? ho ho ho) that V can slip into a network. It will spread across it, the whole ass network, on its own, from any device he breaches and reduces enemy resistances. It makes all targets more vulnerable to quickhacks, but also massively debuffs their resistances to all kinds of damage. It's something like a 90% resistance wipe or so, against flaming, acid, electric, yadda yadda yadda damage? Point being, Mega Man is going to rip Raiden apart just off this.

2) Ping. Ping is literally what it says on the tin. An electronic ping that's nigh-on instant and 'marks' the target so V can see them even through walls. Ping bounces off electronic devices. This is a Mega Man stage. The literal second the fight starts, V is going to Breach Protocol on the town's network, Ping, see Raiden and can start hacking him before he's at all in range to fight.

3) Let's talk about the actual quickhacks. With V's locked in build, Quickhacks upload in the span of a couple seconds, require line of sight (or, y'know, a Ping, see above), and have a wide variety of effects. How wide? Well, V can make Raiden's electronics fry to shock his brain. He can inflict digital insanity to Raiden's brain via his implants. He can send lead, cadmium and mercury into his bloodstream. Overheat his cybernetics to fry his insides. Or, well, simply order him to commit suicide. Like so:

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Suicide

Additionally, V has Shortcircuit. Shortcircuit makes every single bullet V fires that strikes Raiden's armor (doesn't have to do meaningful damage) destabilize his system enough to deliver powerful electric shocks. How powerful? You fight battlemechs in Cyberpunk 2077. Shortcirtcuit pings just oneshot them.

This is one of the grossest countermatchups known to man. Rock and Zeratul could fight Raiden well even if he was in tip top condition, but they're not needed. V can order Raiden's cybernetics to stop moving via Cripple Movement, blind him, and then kill him at leisure. Notice I haven't even repeated anything except Shortcircuit (because noting its passive weapon buff was important). Raiden being more powerful in a straight up fight doesn't matter. He'll never get one. Ever.

greengravy294 posted...

starts here and goes to the wily boss in about 1 minute. its really small imo (but its 2d, YMMV)

Keep in mind Raiden at full speed is significantly faster than Mega Man power walk too.

Honestly I think Raiden can sprint down this stage and kinda mangle people before they even have time to come up with a gameplan

Mega Man

Like. No shot in Hell Raiden is faster than Quick Man, who is explicitly designed to be the fastest from the metals he's made of and is easily compared to "man who is an actual race car" (to say nothing about the Megamix manga claiming "four times faster than light speed", which... yeah ok sure). Mega Man can at least keep up with Raiden's movements to get a Flash Stopper off when the guy's coming right at him. From there, I take V or Zeratul to get in a fatal blow on half-health Raiden. The other one there is absolute overkill.

Raiden would have to kill exactly Mega Man first for even a shot in my mind, and if he's ripper, no chance he's not gonna just kill the first guy he sees.

greengravy294 posted...

Honestly I think Raiden can sprint down this stage and kinda mangle people before they even have time to come up with a gameplan

Massive bruh moment

Anyway I was thinking he loses even to Megaman Blind + Zeratul Warp Blade but it sounds like V hard-counters him even beyond that

What it comes down really, is that Raiden ain't that special compared of the people in the world of Cyberpunk. And a half-health Raiden..? Nah, not good enough imo

GANON1025 posted...

What it comes down really, is that Raiden ain't that special compared of the people in the world of Cyberpunk. And a half-health Raiden..? Nah, not good enough imo

I think Raiden is definitely remarkable and towers above Cyberpunk cyborgs in some areas (strength and durability primarily). They're just equally superior to him in others tho (speed under Sandevistan, hacking prowess, powerful gun access). Intelligence V is just legitimately the worst possible opponent Raiden could face ever. He has no feats defending against the game V runs at all and V has plenty of feats wiping out a megacorp's worth of badass cyborgs with a blink and a hack.

Raiden does a lot of weird stuff that extends beyond a cyborg due to his emotions and random intangibles and I'm not sure he can just be hacked just because the ability description says so

Give me a reason to believe in this V hype that isn't purely parameter driven

Like ripper mode even existing seems like the literal anthesis of something that can be hacked

Lopen posted...

Raiden does a lot of weird stuff that extends beyond a cyborg due to his emotions and random intangibles and I'm not sure he can just be hacked just because the ability description says so

Give me a reason to believe in this V hype that isn't purely parameter driven

The MGS verse is bad against hacking. Ocelot hacks the world all the way back in MGS4. Notably, in Cyberpunk, V finds the corpse of a certain hacker. Said hacker singlehandedly brought down the World Wide Web, plunging it into a dark age that fragmented it into segmented, super firewalled fiefdoms that could never possibly connect again because to do so would allow rogue AIs into the system and they could possibly wipe humanity in a few days tops. V takes his quickhacks, and if you want to buy into perk lore, the maximum intelligence perk that allows you to manually create top flight quickhacks is 'Bartmoss' Legacy' (Rache Bartmoss being the web destroyer). Also lorewise, two of the few hackers that could keep up with said guy helped assault the Arasaka Corporation alongside Keanu Reeves way back when, and got their brains fried for their troubles by its ICE countermeasures. V by contrast, manages to successfully navigate them and do what they couldn't. That's a running theme for V in general, in fact -- if you ever watched the Cyberpunk Edgerunners anime, the heroes try to fight the power together and fail. V does the same thing solo and wins, going beyond what everyone else could do.

Kamekguy posted...

Mega Man

Like. No shot in Hell Raiden is faster than Quick Man, who is explicitly designed to be the fastest from the metals he's made of and is easily compared to "man who is an actual race car" (to say nothing about the Megamix manga claiming "four times faster than light speed", which... yeah ok sure). Mega Man can at least keep up with Raiden's movements to get a Flash Stopper off when the guy's coming right at him. From there, I take V or Zeratul to get in a fatal blow on half-health Raiden. The other one there is absolute overkill.

Raiden would have to kill exactly Mega Man first for even a shot in my mind, and if he's ripper, no chance he's not gonna just kill the first guy he sees.

Parameter wise the megas are all a tier or two below the X ones and Raidens a whole tier or two above those.

Overall I think this terrain plays extremely well to Raidens advantage because the building give him the ability to dip in and out and create short term 1 on 1 matchups. Anything wide open Raiden is fucked but a city environment is literally raidens wheelhouse.

Centaur stop + hack is their one chance to get him and nothing Ive seen convinces me these hacks can completely shut raiden down aside from blinding him which I just dont think is enough - and like Lopen Im not convinced would even work

Raiden solos I think

Okay I watched the ping video and it says v needs to be able to see an enemy in order to ping them unless they are connected to the network which Raiden would not be as a foreign entity

Can't speak for anything else but that seems like an obvious thing for me to point out.

Centaur stop + hack is their one chance to get him and nothing Ive seen convinces me these hacks can completely shut raiden down aside from blinding him which I just dont think is enough - and like Lopen Im not convinced would even work

I mean, they could just literally make Raiden's body shut down. Cripple Movement is a hack that renders enemies stock still by freezing their implants. What's he gonna do if he can't move? Throw insults at them?

KanzarisKelshen posted...

The MGS verse is bad against hacking. Ocelot hacks the world all the way back in MGS4

Ocelot doesn't hack Raiden

Do any cyborgs exist remotely like Raiden in cyberpunk world

Like ripper mode isn't "an algorithm" Raiden's whole existence is very much unlike anything robotic. I couldn't see any sort of attempt to hack him being met with anything other than pissing him off.

Eddv posted...

Parameter wise the megas are all a tier or two below the X ones and Raidens a whole tier or two above those.

I agree for the X bots, but I still think base Mega Man is just... a lot more advanced than MGS, tech-wise?

Like, it's got teleporters and they make robots who can stop time and are designed for exploring other planets for energy sources and stuff. By MM3!

I agree the X robots are better. But I'm just talking Quick Man, Top Man, and Turbo Man as more technically impressive than any given Metal Gear!

Lopen posted...

Ocelot doesn't hack Raiden

Do any cyborgs exist remotely like Raiden in cyberpunk world

Like ripper mode isn't "an algorithm" Raiden's whole existence is very much unlike anything robotic. I couldn't see any sort of attempt to hack him being met with anything other than pissing him off.

Yes, they do. For example, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoLBt2vayAc

Like I said in another post, Cyberpunk 2077 cyborgs are just better than MGR ones in places. Not strengthwise and not durabilitywise, but we have zero reason to believe Raiden scales into having powerful antihacking defenses when his series' track record against it isn't good.

(To be extremely clear, Cyberpunk Edgerunners is canon to Cyberpunk 2077. V literally has the shotgun of one of the characters from it in his writeup, which you can get in game. So this stuff is as valid as valid gets, considering you can even do better in-game.)

It's less "Raiden resists being hacked due to defenses in his tech" and more "Raiden is a thing that can't really be hacked due to being 'too human' for it to make sense"