Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ B.J. Blazkowicz, King K. Rool and Samus vs Vivi, Cloud and Liquid Snake

(+) Yeah! (+)

B.J. Blazkowicz, King K. Rool and Samus have challenged Vivi Ornitier, Cloud Strife and Liquid Snake to a fight! Location of the fight: Shadow Moses Island - The bombed out, ruined site of Liquid's past ambitions, as seen in Metal Gear Solid 4. All enemies have been cleared out, and REX's husk is not present. Attackers will begin at the snowfield, while defenders will begin at REX's resting place. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
- Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes.
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.

B.J. Blazkowicz is as he appears in Wolfenstein: The New Order, with his full arsenal (including upgraded Laserkraftwerk) and all weapons fully upgraded. King K. Rool has taken one of his 1960s Machineguns from him. He has completely forgottoned his own past and become convinced that he is actually Zenos viator Galvus. He will try to act and fight in battle as Zenos would, coloured through the lens of his own natural personality. If he lacks the capability to fight as Zenos at all (e.g. a gunman lacking the capacity to cast magic like a wizard would) he will gain comparable techniques to his object of idolization, though how powerful and skilful these techniques will be past a basic level is up to voter interpretation and he will have access to none of his equipment.

King K. Rool is as he appears in Donkey Kong 64. He has access to his techniques and weapons from Donkey Kong Country 2, DK Jungle Climber, and his Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset, with the exception of his final smash, game mechanics like shielding, turning invincible, or Mega K. Rool. And yes, he can turn invisible. He has taken one of BJ's 1960s machineguns and is considered to be given a full breakdown on how the thing he took works and will be able to use it to at least an acceptable degree of competency.

Samus is as she appears in Metroid Dread. She is equipped with her Gravity Suit, all upgrades, and all Aeion abilities from both Dread and Samus Returns (though only her single, recharging Aeion tank). She also has access to her Light Beam, Dark Beam, Annihilator Beam, Sunburst, Darkburst, Sonic Boom, Seeker Missiles, Dark & Echo visors from Metroid Prime 2. Her Metroid DNA will not fully awaken during battle. The enemy team has become aware of Samus' presence and all that she is capable of, and succumbed to fear of the foe they're now tasked with facing. They will prioritize defeating her above all else, making their battle plan revolve around her defeat and abandoning other plans to ensure her demise. She only has five minutes left to live, at which point she will mysteriously keel over, dead and unable to be revived in any way, shape or form. She and her team will be aware of her impending demise, however, and factor it into their battle plans.

~VS~

Liquid Snake is as he appears in Metal Gear Solid, piloting Metal Gear REX from the nearest convenient location to his team's starting point. He may not leave the vehicle, and is considered defeated if it is destroyed. Liquid has become terrified of B.J. and will try to avoid him at all costs, refusing to engage him unless attacked and trying to put as much distance between them as possible at all times. He is masquerading as Samus mentor and will keep in contact with her during the fight over codec until the teams meet in battle for the first time. At that point, Liquid will shed his faade and enter a gleeful monologue about how he's misled her. She will be generally be none the wiser of the deception, and will genuinely believe she is being given helpful advice from a reliable source, although she still won't do anything obviously incorrect, nonsensical, or out of character just because Liquid says so.

Cloud Strife is as he appears in Final Fantasy 7 Remake and continuations, with full access to all his moves and Limit Breaks seen therein. He has access to all elemental magic materia, Deadly Dodge, Parry, Steadfast Block, Healing, Barrier, Subversion, Time, Elemental (linked to Lightning), Assess, Refocus and Bahamut, all fully mastered.

Vivi Ornitier is as he appears in Final Fantasy 9, equipped with his ultimate endgame equipment and his full complement of passive abilities, minus all auto abilities except for Auto-Reflect (which he may dismiss at will but not reapply). He has access to all of his spells save Death, may apply Element Null as he sees fit and may perform Sword Magic combos with other allies as appropriate. Doomsday will not necessarily hit all enemies nor allies automatically.

Lu Bu is as he appears across the Dynasty Warriors series, with all of his movesets from the various games in his base form. He starts the battle with full Musou, and is considered to have his skill tree fully upgraded. He has come to battle riding Red Hare and has infinite Musou for this match.

do not forget lu bu

more like lu who

among horses, red hare
among fight topics

This match takes place at Shadow Moses Island, as seen in Metal Gear Solid 4. The terrain encompasses the entirely of Act 4. Here's a speedrun of MGS4 Act 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvui6jIMcvU

Even if you cut out all of the fights, menuing and load times, you can see that it takes way more than 5 minutes to get to REX's husk, even when you know where you're going. If that wasn't bad enough, Samus is in contact with Liquid pretending to be Samus's mentor. He'll lead her astray around the terrain just to waste what precious little time Samus has left. My team is scared of Samus, so much so that their battle plan is based around beating her. They know they can beat her without doing a single thing, so they'll just sit back and wait for her to die. They'll even know exactly when it happens because of Liquid. Samus is a complete non-factor in this fight.

So that means it's BJ and K. Rool vs Metal Gear REX, Cloud, Vivi, and Lu Bu. BJ's in his Chniby phase right now, thinking he's some fantasy swordsman when he's really just a dude with guns. He's going to run out and get himself killed. That leaves K. Rool with a machine gun. REX is more than enough to take him. Snake needed RPGs and Gray Fox's help to down REX. K. Rool isn't doing that by himself with just a machine gun.

TL;DR:
Samus is dead before the teams interact. BJ thinks he's a lot stronger than he is and is going to get beat quickly, and K. Rool can't take my team by himself.

team shadow moses

total stomp imo

team cloud

'Samus, we have a secret plan for victory but in order to execute it you have to be patient and not worry about your impending demise. It is crucial'

She's not going to listen fully but it is going to be problematic.

Oh and zenos bj is functionally useless

Mewtwo59 posted...

Samus is dead before the teams interact. BJ thinks he's a lot stronger than he is and is going to get beat quickly, and K. Rool can't take my team by himself.

yeah p much

team cloud

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/9/5/AAR9yWAAEN0r.jpg

This is the terrain of the fight. My guys start in the red area they start in the blue.

I think under normal circumstqnces the clash probably happens in the canyon but there are some factors at play - 1 samus knows her time is limited, 2 she is being given qdvice from Liquid who she believes to be her mentor and who is scared shitless of BJ. So he is probably gonna try to make the fight happen someplace that doesnt really leave the rex in viw of things which is probably in the nuke bunker which I circled in purple.

This is cramped, the Red Hare is probably not much use here but it also makes this fight happen in Samus wheelhouse, an area that would fit right in in one of the Prime games.

Once the clash happens, Samus can really shine. In Dread and Returns one of her main abilities is her Lightning Armor which renders her invulnerable and gives her longe range melee counters with the hand cannon.

With the enemy forced to focus on Samus in comes K Rool, able to ambush the foes with a plasma powered machine gun which is capable of tearing through power armor.

BJ - one of two things happens. Either he looks at all the nazi weapons he is holding and remembers who he is and joins the fight with the bad ass Mining Laser of his which on impact has a flash bang like effect, which can bounce off things and still hit and which can pierce damn near everything

Or he believes he is Zenos and gets all of his teleport hax which hell do with his 1960 combat knife which is essentially a very short sword and bare minimum will tear the shit out of vivi. Zenos is also no stranger to guns, being a master in all weaponry and even employing a gun scythe in game, so perhaps he sees the bad ass laser on hand and decides to go ham with it anyway.

SirChris posted...

team cloud

'Samus, we have a secret plan for victory but in order to execute it you have to be patient and not worry about your impending demise. It is crucial'

She's not going to listen fully but it is going to be problematic.

Oh and zenos bj is functionally useless

Funny thing is, this exact sort of shit gets pulled on her in Dread and she does figure it out eventually and since it JUST happened to her shes just gonna be like 'dis shit again?'

Yeah, King K. Rool is functionally flying solo here. He's competent, but he's facing Liquid, Cloud, and Vivi... with only a machine gun... uhhhhh, yeah.

The Home Team (Liquid/Cloud)

Also, explain to me why my team would move to engage the other team. They know Samus is more than 5 minutes away from where they are, and they want her dead more than anything. They're going to hunker down and wait out the timer, since they know that's their best way of beating Samus.

Funny thing is, this exact sort of shit gets pulled on her in Dread and she does figure it out eventually and since it JUST happened to her shes just gonna be like 'dis shit again?'

Got a showcase of this? Because I think it really matters and if Samus decides to go speedrunning she can do some real-ass damage.

Isn't the Metroid duology Fusion > Dread?

I mean its the plot of the entire front half of Dread Kanz.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Also, explain to me why my team would move to engage the other team. They know Samus is more than 5 minutes away from where they are, and they want her dead more than anything. They're going to hunker down and wait out the timer, since they know that's their best way of beating Samus.

Because Liquid is scared shitless of BJ and doesnt want him to come anywhere near him

Hes not exacrly thinking straight.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Yeah, King K. Rool is functionally flying solo here. He's competent, but he's facing Liquid, Cloud, and Vivi... with only a machine gun... uhhhhh, yeah.

The Home Team (Liquid/Cloud)

I have to push back on this notion that BJ is useless.

He either realizes he is BJ or he has the full ability complement of a maxed out reaper bare minimum, plus an ability to do teleport hax and is at worst using a pretty solid dagger even if you think for some reason Zenos is so suicidally stupid hed refuse to use the weapons at hand which he WOULD know how to use even if he typically prefers blades.

Thanks to Other M, we know that Samus will follow Adam's orders to the letter. So Liquid impersonating him is super strong here.

Eddv posted...

I mean its the plot of the entire front half of Dread Kanz.

OK yeah if it's that wide a net that's a strong argument for Samus just going with what makes sense then

The question is if she can cover the distance and do any lasting damage before time runs out. Cloud has no revival but he does have healing.

Eddv posted...

Because Liquid is scared shitless of BJ and doesnt want him to come anywhere near him

Hes not exacrly thinking straight.

That's just another reason why he'd want to hunker down. Stay where you are, because moving means you get closer to the scary man with identity issues.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

OK yeah if it's that wide a net that's a strong argument for Samus just going with what makes sense then

The question is if she can cover the distance and do any lasting damage before time runs out. Cloud has no revival but he does have healing.

The thing is, Samus doesn't know this terrain. Liquid can just lead her into a dead end. Even if it's only once and she doesn't buy "lol my bad" and keeps listening, that's still a large chunk of Samus's limited time that she wasn't doing anything productive. So 5 minutes becomes 3 minutes, and this terrain is way too large to cover in 3 minutes, even with the Speed Booster.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Got a showcase of this? Because I think it really matters and if Samus decides to go speedrunning she can do some real-ass damage.

He said "eventually." And yet, I don't think this matters. Is she gonna be able to deduce this and act on it in five minutes? She'll take at least one minute, probably two, to figure out if this is indeed a liar messing with her. And by then, she'll have to curl up and turbo her way forward, not knowing exactly where the enemy lies. Sure, she can move fast in ball form, but she needs to know exactly where she's going, and break through any defenses that are set up.

I really don't see her as a factor since Mewtwo's team is gonna wait for the poison to kick in before making a move, and has planned for variables.

Eddv posted...

He either realizes he is BJ or he has the full ability complement of a maxed out reaper bare minimum

You're acting like it's possible for him to immediately snap out of it. If it was, would this be a mechanic? And where does it say he has a maxed out reaper level of power? It says "anything beyond the basic level is up to viewer interpretation" - but since he has no experience, he just THINKS he does, how the hell are you arguing that he's suddenly this master?

GANON1025 posted...

Thanks to Other M, we know that Samus will follow Adam's orders to the letter. So Liquid impersonating him is super strong here.

Which wouod be a problem if this was Other M.

Fortunately, its Dread where she sees through his terrible advice!

Mewtwo59 posted...

The thing is, Samus doesn't know this terrain. Liquid can just lead her into a dead end. Even if it's only once and she doesn't buy "lol my bad" and keeps listening, that's still a large chunk of Samus's limited time that she wasn't doing anything productive. So 5 minutes becomes 3 minutes, and this terrain is way too large to cover in 3 minutes, even with the Speed Booster.

This is a convincing argument and I think it solidly sells me on Liquid carrying this match. I don't think Samus gets misled long and extremely won't buy being told to wait, but being guided in the wrong direction once is definitely fair and it's all it takes.

Eddv posted...

Which wouod be a problem if this was Other M.

Fortunately, its Dread where she sees through his terrible advice!

Mercs magic says she genuinely believes whatever she's being told, at least at the start. She can figure it out after Liquid has led her astray around the terrain a few times, but by then it's too late.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

You're acting like it's possible for him to immediately snap out of it. If it was, would this be a mechanic? And where does it say he has a maxed out reaper level of power? It says "anything beyond the basic level is up to viewer interpretation" - but since he has no experience, he just THINKS he does, how the hell are you arguing that he's suddenly this master?

His weaponry is mainly pilfered nazi tech. This man lives and breathes and is driven in a n almosy supernatural way to kill the nazis. I truly believe seeing the iron eagle and the swastika would be "proof of his identity" in some real serious way.

But even if he doesnt gaining Zenos power suite is VERY good even if his best bladed weapon is a dagger that looks like this

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/2/7/AAR9yWAAEN1L.jpg

Even if Samus manages to speedrun Shadow Moses and reach the enemy team within 5 minutes, I don't she'd faceroll them anyway. Cloud with support can hold out for a bit.

BJ doesn't get Zenos's power. I could be hypnotized into thinking I'm Raiden. Who takes me in that situation over Mario? He might get teleports and stuff, but it's still based off of BJ's power, not Zenos's.

KamikazePotato posted...

Even if Samus manages to speedrun Shadow Moses and reach the enemy team within 5 minutes, I don't she'd faceroll them anyway. Cloud with support can hold out for a bit.

I'd also like to mention that there's no way BJ and K. Rool can keep up with Samus if she does this. So she'd be walking into a 1 v 4.

KamikazePotato posted...

Even if Samus manages to speedrun Shadow Moses and reach the enemy team within 5 minutes, I don't she'd faceroll them anyway. Cloud with support can hold out for a bit.

I mean her weaponry in dread is pretty ridiculous.

She can tank his first swing, counter it and get a clean blast in with her annihilator beam which will quite simply kill him dead - its like a core strategy in dread for handling melee centric people.

For vivi she has seeker missiles and for the rex she has those sunburst missiles that cause big explosions that take out things just like rex all the time.

So uh.

What stops Samus from just shinesparking over most of the terrain when she reaches the snowfield?

Like Liquid is absolutely scared out of his mind about two of them. There is a terrified child next to him asking if everything is gonna be OK. If Samus streaks through the sky, what's to stop him from utterly blowing his cover the minute he realizes he's in actual danger?

Like, unfortunately there aren't that many wrong turns in Shadow Moses. I totally buy Liquid trying to manipulate Samus along, but she's been mislead by AI posing as her CO before, and that... ended very badly. And I can't help but think that the Wave Beam just microwaves Liquid here. Like, going through REX and frying him REALLY good.

How long that takes, of course, is up for debate. I'm just trying to think of Samus' survival instinct versus how long Liquid can keep things up while being very stressed about a man cosplaying as another man and the scary lady he's trying to manipulate, plus the travel time of Samus actually getting there with full speedboost tech.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

If he lacks the capability to fight as Zenos at all (e.g. a gunman lacking the capacity to cast magic like a wizard would) he will gain comparable techniques to his object of idolization

Yes he does

That means he gets stuff like Zenos's teleport. It doesn't mean he's suddenly on Zenos's power level.

Oh btw

The problem with bj is he doesn't get zenos's stats

In the world of ffxiv my man zenos is a THICC BOI in terms of raw stats physically and magically/spiritually. He is literally in every sense of the word built different. His fighting style is suited to this difference on raw stats as he goes around monologuing and mass murdering without any fear because fear is too base an emotion for one such as him.

Cloud is ruining his day and fast.

If he lacks the capability to fight as Zenos at all (e.g. a gunman lacking the capacity to cast magic like a wizard would) he will gain comparable techniques to his object of idolization, though how powerful and skilful these techniques will be past a basic level is up to voter interpretation and he will have access to none of his equipment.

he gets "comparable techniques" at a "basic level" (I don't buy him getting anything more than that) and he doesn't get Zenos' stats to back them up

he is def getting himself killed quickly (to Liquid's vast relief)

SirChris posted...

Oh btw

The problem with bj is he doesn't get zenos's stats

In the world of ffxiv my man zenos is a THICC BOI in terms of raw stats physically and magically/spiritually. He is literally in every sense of the word built different. His fighting style is suited to this difference on raw stats as he goes around monologuing and mass murdering without any fear because fear is too base an emotion for one such as him.

Cloud is ruining his day and fast.

Confirming this btw. Zenos is unironically 'just built diff'. He doesn't lack skill at all but the way he uses that skill plays into just, being the strongest man in the world. I think BJ can do a teleport shank and kill VIvi, but Zenos' personality is gonna make him spar with Cloud instead and that ends badly I think.

Kamekguy posted...

What stops Samus from just shinesparking over most of the terrain when she reaches the snowfield?

Liquid, pretending to be Adam: Samus, you are not authorized to use that move.

samus is better equipped than most to speedrun the island, but it would require a couple uncertain points to break in her favor, it's probably taxing in a cutscene environment to do that even if she can do it forever in game, and the payoff is trying to 1v4 an unusually prepared and motivated enemy team (i think the fear helps more than hurts in a battle against samus alone, the way it's worded)

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Confirming this btw. Zenos is unironically 'just built diff'. He doesn't lack skill at all but the way he uses that skill plays into just, being the strongest man in the world. I think BJ can do a teleport shank and kill VIvi, but Zenos' personality is gonna make him spar with Cloud instead and that ends badly I think.

I would argue zenos would rather stop existing before he would shirk away from a battle with someone with the buster sword for a weapon lmao

SirChris posted...

Oh btw

The problem with bj is he doesn't get zenos's stats

In the world of ffxiv my man zenos is a THICC BOI in terms of raw stats physically and magically/spiritually. He is literally in every sense of the word built different. His fighting style is suited to this difference on raw stats as he goes around monologuing and mass murdering without any fear because fear is too base an emotion for one such as him.

Cloud is ruining his day and fast.

My man BJ is pretty ridiculous in his own right.

https://youtu.be/q_-fCqku8B8

Here he is running through a nazi hospital, his insides basically blended, going on a murder spree in a wheelchair. He is strong wnough to wield TWO minigun sized machine guns at the same time and pretty easily wielding most two handed guns in one hand whilst maintaining accuracy.

And look BJ might not live through it - buts he is 100% sriving that dagger through clouds heart, especially if Clouds focus is diverted to samus.

GANON1025 posted...

Liquid, pretending to be Adam: Samus, you are not authorized to use that move.

She's over that by the time of Dread, which happens both after Other M and after y'know. She knows Adam is dead.

Because she saw it.

She takes orders from his robot now. And she sasses it.

Cloud, Liquid, and Vivi (Lu Bu too)

No need to go into details. B.J. going into melee thinking he's Zenos with Lu Bu or Cloud seems like a deathwish, and K.Rool in a 1v4 is very much in trouble.

Samus gets suckered and dies on arrival. (Where Liquid spends a few minutes doing the vizzini joke from princess bride except for the falling over dead part)

to be totally fair zenos was quite strong when he got mind transferred into a random soldier (still far below his level with his own body, but)

i don't think a deluded bj is gonna be as good as that, though
---

HeroicGammaRay posted...

to be totally fair zenos was quite strong when he got mind transferred into a random soldier (still far below his level with his own body, but)

i don't think a deluded bj is gonna be as good as that, though
---

BJ is several thousand times better than "a random soldier" that needs to be made abundantly clear.

Kamekguy posted...

She's over that by the time of Dread, which happens both after Other M and after y'know. She knows Adam is dead.

Because she saw it.

She takes orders from his robot now. And she sasses it.

Thats honestly very fair.

Eddv posted...

BJ is several thousand times better than "a random soldier" that needs to be made abundantly clear.

This is also true

HeroicGammaRay posted...

to be totally fair zenos was quite strong when he got mind transferred into a random soldier (still far below his level with his own body, but)

i don't think a deluded bj is gonna be as good as that, though
---

I had this discussion elsewhere and keep in mind his spirit is also insane which is why I mentioned it just wasn't his body.

I think you know that but the difference is big imo

Maybe useless is unfair but given he wants to fight cloud functionally its a problem here.

A cloud who isnt even really paying attention to him

So I definitely get that Samus has mind hax going on but Adam was sniffed out over half the game in her prior game, Fusion.

Shouldn't she detect it alot faster here?