Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 402: This Election Sucks and is Now About Trains

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

i just find it hard (if not impossible) to take someone who describes himself as a "libertarian socialist" seriously.

that video was good, though.

what

You know it's just another term for things like anarcho-syndicalism that Chomsky and the likes advocate for? Well I think it's more of a general term, whereas anarcho-syndicalism is specifically a strategy for achieving it, but regardless, the term makes perfect sense once you understand it. Have you never heard of the four point political compass test?

Also I like Vaush. But what actually makes him hard to take seriously sometimes is calling literally everyone a fascist. It's annoying, childish, and it's important to not overuse that word at a time when fascism is actually on the rise around the world. He uses "fascist" like the right uses "woke" - anything he doesn't like.

_Blur_ posted...

You know it's just another term for things like anarcho-syndicalism that Chomsky and the likes advocate for? Well I think it's more of a general term, whereas anarcho-syndicalism is specifically a strategy for achieving it, but regardless, the term makes perfect sense once you understand it. Have you never heard of the four point political compass test?

even if the term makes sense, you've already lost me if you describe yourself as "libertarian" anything. i'm a socialist period and i think libertarianism is a dogshit political ideology. (same goes for anarchism, btw.)

i'll admit to knowing little - probably not enough - about chomsky's political beliefs, though.

Libertarian socialist is an odd term since it sounds like an oxymoron but it just means progressive socialist. I dont think it really gets as far as anarcho-syndaclism. I would say most modern socialists are probably libertarian socialists, socially liberal and economically left-wing.

i don't even think libertarians are necessarily socially liberal, though. for instance, they think churches should handle marriage and the government should not be involed (which would obviously greatly restrict gay marriage).

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

for instance, they think churches should handle marriage and the government should not be involed (which would obviously greatly restrict gay marriage).

no they don't. a loud breed of dipshit american libertarian does

Yeah not to defend libertarians too much but many American libertarians are anything but. No libertarian should be anywhere near the Republican party.

The typical joke about American libertarians is "People call me a racist stoner but I prefer the term libertarian" and it's not correct about 100% of them but there's definitely some correlation there.

I would still take a libertarian over a Republican ten times out of ten though.

Kenri posted...

The typical joke about American libertarians is "People call me a racist stoner but I prefer the term libertarian" and it's not correct about 100% of them but there's definitely some correlation there.

I thought the joke was "I'm not a Republican! I want to marry a 13 year old, so I'm a libertarian."

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

even if the term makes sense, you've already lost me if you describe yourself as "libertarian" anything. i'm a socialist period and i think libertarianism is a dogshit political ideology. (same goes for anarchism, btw.)

i'll admit to knowing little - probably not enough - about chomsky's political beliefs, though.

Libertarian in this sense is simply pertaining to aspects of individual liberty and nothing more; it doesn't pertain to the government whatsoever. The socialist part obviously does pertain to the government.

Put them together and libertarian socialism largely just means socialism done through the marketplace via things like worker co-ops, with a very strong social safety net from a well-funded government.

See I would call that market socialism. Incidentally the existence of market socialism as an ideology makes me wonder what the purpose of neoliberal capitalism is other than to make a small few extravagantly wealthy. Just kidding I know thats exactly what the purpose is.

The anti-trans stuff from popular, well known conservative types is pretty frightening to me. I usually keep these topics blocked so I can hide from problems but unfortunately this is everywhere right now. It's alarming to me that elected officials are getting away with what amounts to calling for genocide just about. Not that there was evil a question of their evil, but the boldness and rhetoric seems over the top even for that group. I just can't fathom how such a vicious cycle continuously repeats itself with different minority groups. When you read about this sort of hate speech that's right in the forefront of the majority party in one of the branches of our government, I guess for me it seems like a relic of a bygone era, at least to this extreme level I'm seeing.

you aim at the mouse you best not miss

https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1641164628922187778

Before DeSantis's takeover of the Reedy Creek district by making the board all his appointees the old board ceded basically all of its power to Disney so now DeSantis's board is powerless.

Specifically, the contract states that it will be in effect until "21 years after the death of the last survivor of the descendants of England's King Charles III"

As odd as that clause seems it's apparently a common legal construct to get around old common law that prevented contracts from being indefinite by giving it a technical expiration date

Thorn posted...

Specifically, the contract states that it will be in effect until "21 years after the death of the last survivor of the descendants of England's King Charles III"

Why do I get the feeling DeSantis is about to have some people assassinated?

Dancedreamer posted...

Why do I get the feeling DeSantis is about to have some people assassinated?

Pretty sure assassinating the British Royal Family would cause him even more problems than Disney can manage.

Kenri posted...

I would still take a libertarian over a Republican ten times out of ten though.

sure, this i agree with.

though occasionally, these two go together (i.e. ron paul).

Okay I'm just going to say

I just caught up on old posts in this topic, and holy shit does plum have the dumbest takes as ever, but him getting warned for that is utterly absurd. That's not hate speech or transphobia, just a dumbass masterclass in whataboutism logic. But it's clearly not anything intentionally hateful. Seriously I'd like to say cancel culture isn't real, but ridiculous bans like that make it a very hard point to argue

I feel like Bill Maher or some shit seeing that and I can't think of a worse feeling

Yeah I've gotta say I'm not really sure what deserved a warning there either. For a site that just refuses to ban its most utterly obnoxious, worthless users, GameFAQs sure does give out some random-ass moderations now and then.

yeah, a warning was a little harsh.

i don't see what this has to do with cancel culture, though. i wouldn't say a user whose posting abilities are restricted for 48-72 hours is "canceled."

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

yeah, a warning was a little harsh.

i don't see what this has to do with cancel culture, though. i wouldn't say a user whose posting abilities are restricted for 48-72 hours is "canceled."

Honestly, I didn't even know that's all a warning means and thought it was like a month ban, but I feel the same way. It's temporary, but that's quite literally an example of someone being "canceled"

Nor is it good optics that it took me saying anything two days later for apparently even a single person to admit they also found it harsh. Do better

Im going to disagree, the initial post on its own was pretty horrendous. He tried to give it some context afterwards to mitigate it. However, there was no hint of that in the first post.

Getting moderated on GameFAQs really is the perfect example of getting canceled, in that it's temporary, easily avoidable, doesn't prevent you from saying the same stuff elsewhere, and is often a much, much more lenient punishment than is deserved.

_Blur_ posted...

It's temporary, but that's quite literally an example of someone being "canceled"

i think saying that someone who's not posting for a few days* is canceled is stretching the definition of "canceling" to the point that it doesn't mean much of anything anymore. i'd say that for someone to be canceled, they have to be gone for a significant amount of time.

* for the record, plum isn't even banned from the boards. he can still post. a warning just means the amount of posts he can make per day is limited.

Nor is it good optics that it took me saying anything two days later for apparently even a single person to admit they also found it harsh. Do better

i mean, i've been modded/warned plenty of times for way dumber reasons than what plum was warned for so i don't care that much. it sucks that the gamefaqs moderation system is flawed but this isn't news. you've been here since 2008 so you should be somewhat used to this by now!

murders and likewise mass shootings tend to get touchier for moderations

which is good actually, a couple days timeout isn't the end of the world when children are murdered and politicians are rallying up for genocide

b8's had plenty of warnings from joking about murders before so this shouldn't be surprising

_Blur_ posted...

Seriously I'd like to say cancel culture isn't real, but ridiculous bans like that make it a very hard point to argue

It's GameFAQs moderation, get a grip

Speaking of movie stuff, people were wondering why I kept bringing up apparent alt-right YouTube news outlet Midnight's Edge. It's because I got most of my movie news from it between 2016 and 2020 (might have mentioned this earlier but I forget), so I'm still tempted to check in on it every now and then. Most recently for their takes on Ant-Man 3 and Shazam 2 which...they somehow blamed Black Panther: Wakanda Forever for both movies bombing because that makes sense.

Paratroopa1 posted...

It's GameFAQs moderation, get a grip

I mean point taken, but I really think the mindset is more important than the context here. What you're pointing to as trivial is also one of the reasons the right can even win elections instead of being the laughing stock they should be. At least it's one of the reasons the right can win influence among the youth and on platforms like YouTube. In a country that prioritizes political theatre and culture wars over policy, never underestimate the ability of the dumbest shit to impact elections.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

i mean, i've been modded/warned plenty of times for way dumber reasons than what plum was warned for so i don't care that much. it sucks that the gamefaqs moderation system is flawed but this isn't news. you've been here since 2008 so you should be somewhat used to this by now!

I've been on GameFAQs since 04 and I think Board 8 since 06. This was my second account here after I account suicided my first.

Wasn't surprised at all by the moderation system, more by the response in this topic.

Kenri posted...

Getting moderated on GameFAQs really is the perfect example of getting canceled, in that it's temporary, easily avoidable, doesn't prevent you from saying the same stuff elsewhere, and is often a much, much more lenient punishment than is deserved.

This is a great post though. I've had the rough experience of having a mostly apolitical but kind of liberal friend of mine go down the Stephen Crowder pipeline around 2020, so I probably do need to "get a grip." Said friend has been pulled back from the brink though last ai could tell when bringing up vaccines and the election (but I also have worse to deal with, I know I've posted enough about the radicalization of my dad in the past).

No. Cancel culture is not real. Chris Brown had a sold out tour like two weeks ago, come on. Its just another right-wing bogeyman so it doesnt have to be real.

Moderation isnt cancel culture its moderation. No large enough online space can be unmoderated because thats how you get 8chan. The mods were absolutely right given that plums initial post before walking it back was equating being part of a vulnerable minority to being a far-right extremist. If anything they went soft on him.

The difference between moderation and cancel culture is, moderation actually works. Look at various obscene figures who were banned then unbanned from twitter. The ban actually significantly hurt their ability to influence the public and cause harm. If somebody is cancelled it only increases their public profile. So moderation of internet spaces is a good way to combat extremism.

Edit: Also the right can win elections because it has an electoral system stacked in its favour and a solid chunk of the population who identify as Republicans and will never vote any other way.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Speaking of movie stuff, people were wondering why I kept bringing up apparent alt-right YouTube news outlet Midnight's Edge. It's because I got most of my movie news from it between 2016 and 2020 (might have mentioned this earlier but I forget), so I'm still tempted to check in on it every now and then. Most recently for their takes on Ant-Man 3 and Shazam 2 which...they somehow blamed Black Panther: Wakanda Forever for both movies bombing because that makes sense.

his argument is so dumb. the problem with superhero movies lately is that they haven't been that good. he even kind of acknowledges this, but then he still says "the movies are flopping because there's superhero fatigue." no, dumbass, they're flopping because people don't like them that much. start making good superhero movies again and people will go see them.

and that's not even getting into his "MCU movies are woke" bullshit.

I don't doubt that comic book movie fatigue is a thing, but yeah that's spectacularly scummy. Shazam 2 flopping because of a string of underwhelming movies from its franchise's biggest competition...and not because of the actually released closely-in-proximity Creed III, Scream VI, and John Wick: Chapter 4. Yikes.

Also, the people who complain the most about cancel culture tend to be its biggest practitioners.

LightningStrikes posted...

Chris Brown had a sold out tour like two weeks ago, come on.

speaking of music, morgan wallen used the n-word.

...his new album is now the #1 album in the US.

LightningStrikes posted...

No. Cancel culture is not real. Chris Brown had a sold out tour like two weeks ago, come on. Its just another right-wing bogeyman so it doesnt have to be real.

Moderation isnt cancel culture its moderation. No large enough online space can be unmoderated because thats how you get 8chan. The mods were absolutely right given that plums initial post before walking it back was equating being part of a vulnerable minority to being a far-right extremist. If anything they went soft on him.

The difference between moderation and cancel culture is, moderation actually works. Look at various obscene figures who were banned then unbanned from twitter. The ban actually significantly hurt their ability to influence the public and cause harm. If somebody is cancelled it only increases their public profile. So moderation of internet spaces is a good way to combat extremism.

Edit: Also the right can win elections because it has an electoral system stacked in its favour and a solid chunk of the population who identify as Republicans and will never vote any other way.

It has a 50 year old propaganda machine and all the money in the world on its side to boot - I just said it's one of them. Just saying most of the people I personally know would go straight to stuff like cancel culture for what they dislike about the left.

Anyway, if you can see a moderation and response like that and not acknowledge it to some extent, you're only going to see what you want to see on this one. Largely I'm in agreement that it's a right-wing boogeyman, but not fully.

Also as much as I hate to encourage LMS this is actually relevant here. The anti-woke brigade will, any time anything doesnt immediately break records even if it is successful, instantly start screaming that it failed because it was woke irrelevant of its actual content. The most obvious recent example was Avatar 2, where after it opened you had these people yelling about how it flopped because it was woke, then it later went on to be the third highest grossing film of all time. This is relevant because the right wing press was literally running headlines of this, its not just YouTube randos anymore.

The actual solution is that first there does need to be some regulation of the press, enough to stop blatant falsehoods and actually inciting hatred. Even more than that though we need to break up the big news corporations and get such money out of the press. As long as news is capitalistic it will favour the right.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

speaking of music, morgan wallen used the n-word.

...his new album is now the #1 album in the US.

This one is kind of making my point for me. Morgan Wallen is a country music star. If he was in any space remotely on the left, he would have 100% been cancelled.

_Blur_ posted...

This one is kind of making my point for me. Morgan Wallen is a country music star. If he was in any space remotely on the left, he would have 100% been cancelled.

Have you ever heard of the Dixie Chicks?

Seriously, have there ever been any case of somebody high-profile getting cancelled by the audience and it working? Every example requires either legal or company action eg Weinstein or Spacey. No online boycott has succeeded to my knowledge.

I find myself getting in the weirdest battles on these threads that I don't even really believe in. But it's always stimulating!

Like I'm 80% in the camp of defining it as a right-wing boogeyman, 20% in the camp of we should be more aware of when it actually happens and not give the Stephen Crowders of the world any ammo.

LightningStrikes posted...

Seriously, have there ever been any case of somebody high-profile getting cancelled by the audience and it working? Every example requires either legal or company action eg Weinstein or Spacey. No online boycott has succeeded to my knowledge.

Okay uhhh some things go beyond the fucking pale and I'd hope everyone could embrace "cancelling" them. Don't think that word applies there though. You genuinely think Spacey and Weinstein would still be figures in Hollywood were it not for their criminal charges?

_Blur_ posted...

This one is kind of making my point for me. Morgan Wallen is a country music star. If he was in any space remotely on the left, he would have 100% been cancelled.

i don't buy that he's only appealing to racist rednecks. you don't get the highest selling album in the US that way.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

you don't get the highest selling album in the US that way.

I mean...

I was initially annoyed, but upon further reflection I realize making a comparison between someone being transgender and extremism is an extremely inappropriate comparison.

WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WAS....

Nah, I'm just kidding. I should have stuck with a generic comparison of demographics at minimum but honestly what I should have done is not brought up the topic at all. It obviously is a topic that is hurtful to many people here especially with how recent it is and I didn't respect that.

_Blur_ posted...

I just caught up on old posts in this topic, and holy shit does plum have the dumbest takes as ever, but him getting warned for that is utterly absurd. That's not hate speech or transphobia, just a dumbass masterclass in whataboutism logic. But it's clearly not anything intentionally hateful. Seriously I'd like to say cancel culture isn't real, but ridiculous bans like that make it a very hard point to argue

A dumbass getting put in a very temporary, defined timeout for a dumbass take (The level of ignorance displayed bordered on hateful tbqh, even if not intentional) is absolutely nowhere close to what you're making it out to be.

Thank you for that post plum. :)

And yeah I absolutely think the likes of Spacey at least could have been successful with audiences if not for getting fired
and his legal troubles. Its not a great endorsement of humanity, but I have absolutely zero faith in market mechanisms to sort it out. Not even because of malice or apathy from the audience, I think a lot of people are not aware. You just need to look at Chris Browns success to see that.

people are freakin out about the resist act should I be also freakin out about the resist act

lookin for more stuff to freak out about, I don't have enough

While I was surprised plum caught a warning for that post, I dunno if prior mod history played a role. Plus, I do think it is the case the mods here are touchier around events like that while they're still very recent.

But GameFAQs moderation on the whole is almost as far from "cancel culture" as you can get while still having a moderation team. It's actually way too lenient IMO, hell I argued to the staff when they were floating relaxing the rules back like eight years ago that we were already too lenient then and it was a policy change in the wrong direction. Unless you're 100% trying to get banned you basically can't get banned here. At worst you get put in timeout for a week or so and there's no rules against having as many alt accounts as you need to circumvent that. Hell, if you do get banned they generally don't touch those either so it's hardly a punishment at all.

As for cancel culture on the whole, I feel like there are vanishingly few examples of successful "cancellings" I can think of and they all tend to be for taking left-aligned political stands like Kaepernick. On the right, not only does it not actually work (see how Netflix responded to the Chappelle stuff) but even if it causes a temporary inconvenience they have their own media ecosystem that will welcome you with open arms so you've still got a platform.

I'm really wracking my brain here for people getting genuinely cancelled (permanently, and not just rebounding after a brief period of bad PR) for expressing opinions on the right of the spectrum. ...Kanye? And only after he went completely batshit that one day?

AriaOfBolo posted...

people are freakin out about the resist act should I be also freakin out about the resist act

lookin for more stuff to freak out about, I don't have enough

So I was actually trying to find an outlet that I trusted to break it down yesterday because I've seen some alarming takes on it but also outlets I trust saying those takes are out of context/not what the bill actually says.

I'm still looking for a good breakdown of it but where I'm at now in the meantime is "It's a genuinely terrible bill but probably not as dystopian as I've seen some people saying."

What I mean is I've seen a bunch of posts about "If you use a VPN to bypass it you can face 20 years in jail" but AFAIK the actual text would be aimed at the VPN provider not the end user. Which is still super bad but not as comic book villain bad as if it were users. But even then I'm not 100% sure this is the right take because it's been so annoying to find trustworthy info on this.

I don't think I have been modded in 5 years.

def weird then. I'd chalk it up to the mods having increased sensitivity around traumatic events like that then. idk

Thorn posted...

def weird then. I'd chalk it up to the mods having increased sensitivity around traumatic events like that then. idk

Probably. I don't think it was worthy of a warning, but it was an insensitive thing to say. Whatever

Thorn posted...

At worst you get put in timeout for a week or so and there's no rules against having as many alt accounts as you need to circumvent that. Hell, if you do get banned they generally don't touch those either so it's hardly a punishment at all.

while this is true, you do need to put in a lot of effort in getting a lot of karma on a bunch of alts for this to work. fortunately, a lot of trolls don't do this, so they have no choice but to post on a 3 karma alt with lots of posting restrictions.

I'm really wracking my brain here for people getting genuinely cancelled (permanently, and not just rebounding after a brief period of bad PR) for expressing opinions on the right of the spectrum. ...Kanye? And only after he went completely batshit that one day?

now that rihanna performed all of the lights during the super bowl, i don't consider kanye to be truly canceled.

Also you aren't allowed to post on this board at all while warned.

Kind of a silly rule, but once again it was only 48 hours so whatever

masterplum posted...

Also you aren't allowed to post on this board at all while warned.

Kind of a silly rule, but once again it was only 48 hours so whatever

Yeah, you came back before I could comment but I would have pointed out that the reduction in user level that comes from being warned would prevent you from posting here. But that's the only reason, if Board 8 didn't have like a Level 15 or whatever it is requirement you would still be able to post here albeit with very limited posts. Theoretically if you got warned on the smash bros board you would still be able to post there while warned.