Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Gordon Freeman, Raiden vs. Donkey, Diddy&Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Bowser

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2
Hbthebattle 03/01/23 11:16:36 PM #51:	monke --- :) <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:971897691] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>monke</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mewtwo59 03/01/23 11:22:17 PM #52:	AriaOfBolo posted... I also think he can tank a bit. I also think Mewtwo is gonna debuff Raiden once he sees him as a threat. Confuse Ray will work well on him, Power Swap will benefit Mewtwo's mixed kit and hurt Raiden's physical one, and Guard Swap is also a boon here. Mewtwo's also got a party heal now! Power Swap and Guard Swap actually don't work that way. The way they actually work is that they let Mewtwo pass its buffs to its teammates. Power and Guard Swap switch the respective stat stages the user and target. So say Mewtwo uses Calm Mind 3 times. It can pass that buff on to Bowser in exchange for Bowser's current buffs (which don't exist). It could also pass them to the other team, but I don't think Mewtwo has any way to lower its own stats in this setup to take advantage of that. --- ""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47 <cite>Mewtwo59 posted [p:971897784] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>AriaOfBolo posted... </cite><quote>I also think he can tank a bit.I also think Mewtwo is gonna debuff Raiden once he sees him as a threat. Confuse Ray will work well on him, Power Swap will benefit Mewtwo's mixed kit and hurt Raiden's physical one, and Guard Swap is also a boon here. Mewtwo's also got a party heal now!</quote>Power Swap and Guard Swap actually don't work that way. The way they actually work is that they let Mewtwo pass its buffs to its teammates. Power and Guard Swap switch the respective stat stages the user and target. So say Mewtwo uses Calm Mind 3 times. It can pass that buff on to Bowser in exchange for Bowser's current buffs (which don't exist). It could also pass them to the other team, but I don't think Mewtwo has any way to lower its own stats in this setup to take advantage of that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chaeix 03/01/23 11:25:31 PM #53:	raiden is unfortunately a very bad matchup for dk who even with durability buffs is not taking raiden's blades easily --- we're all buds~jc~ <DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs <cite>Chaeix posted [p:971897820] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>raiden is unfortunately a very bad matchup for dk who even with durability buffs is not taking raiden's blades easily</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AriaOfBolo 03/01/23 11:50:32 PM #54:	Mewtwo59 posted... Power and Guard Swap switch the respective stat stages the user and target. dang here I was thinking I could read :\ --- New name, new gender, same great Bolo flavor! Stronger than the storms that they've shown you <cite>AriaOfBolo posted [p:971898165] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Mewtwo59 posted... </cite><quote>Power and Guard Swap switch the respective stat stages the user and target.</quote>dang here I was thinking I could read :\</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 03/02/23 12:48:22 AM #55:	I think there is a solid strategy here if Mewtwo plays support. By buffing himself, then transferring those buffs to DK and playing healer, three stacks of barrier here would make DK like... stupid. Especially three stacks he's getting without actively needing to focus on them - I take DK here to be fast enough to at least stall Raiden, though my guy's obviously taking heavy damage. Blade Mode slows down time by 50%, so DK... would still be moving at twice his normal speed even given Raiden's fastest reactions. My issue is that Raiden is excellent at finesse, and DK is... not. I do think that one punch from DK messes with Raiden real bad, and if Mewtwo gets the set-up here and is also able to patch up DK's damage, that's gg. But this relies on: -DK being able to keep Raiden's full aggro -Mewtwo remaining in the background and avoiding set-up -Gordon not interfering The middle of those, I see no problem with. Mewtwo's a dodgy fella with teleport, they're fine. The top, I'd need to know how strong Raiden's situational awareness is when already in combat, I mostly know him as a great duelist and scout/tracker more than anything, post-cyborging at least. And the last of those... a lot hinges on that. Gordon's potentially dealing a whole lot of damage, and the only guys who can stop him are... well just Bowser, really, Diddy and Dixie don't have a whole lot of places they can go to dodge and be annoying. I'm trying to figure out what those two do here, as if Gordon gets enough damage out on DK to make Mewtwo moot, it's kinda over - I don't take Mewtwo in the 1v1 against Raiden, and think him going all out offensive to start gets Raiden to charge him early, which ends poorly. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:971898953] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>I think there is a solid strategy here if Mewtwo plays support. By buffing himself, then transferring those buffs to DK and playing healer, three stacks of barrier here would make DK like... stupid. Especially three stacks he's getting without actively needing to focus on them - I take DK here to be fast enough to at least stall Raiden, though my guy's obviously taking heavy damage. Blade Mode slows down time by 50%, so DK... would still be moving at twice his normal speed even given Raiden's fastest reactions.My issue is that Raiden is excellent at finesse, and DK is... not. I do think that one punch from DK messes with Raiden real bad, and if Mewtwo gets the set-up here and is also able to patch up DK's damage, that's gg. But this relies on:-DK being able to keep Raiden's full aggro-Mewtwo remaining in the background and avoiding set-up-Gordon not interferingThe middle of those, I see no problem with. Mewtwo's a dodgy fella with teleport, they're fine. The top, I'd need to know how strong Raiden's situational awareness is when already in combat, I mostly know him as a great duelist and scout/tracker more than anything, post-cyborging at least. And the last of those... a lot hinges on that. Gordon's potentially dealing a whole lot of damage, and the only guys who can stop him are... well just Bowser, really, Diddy and Dixie don't have a whole lot of places they can go to dodge and be annoying. I'm trying to figure out what those two do here, as if Gordon gets enough damage out on DK to make Mewtwo moot, it's kinda over - I don't take Mewtwo in the 1v1 against Raiden, and think him going all out offensive to start gets Raiden to charge him early, which ends poorly.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mewtwo59 03/02/23 12:59:03 AM #56:	So I still put 400% DK at lower than Armstrong, who Raiden was able to beat. Raiden doesn't struggle with large enemies either, as seen in the Excelsus fight. Honestly, this DK might be able to beat the RAY that Raiden fought at the beginning of the game. Might is the key word there, I still think RAY has an advantage. But that was Raiden at his absolute weakest in the game, and he still styled all over that thing. DK has Mewtwo's help, but if DK is fighting Raiden, Mewtwo has to deal with Gordon. Mewtwo probably wins first, but not quickly enough to save DK. And while Mewtwo's good, Raiden's better. --- ""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47 <cite>Mewtwo59 posted [p:971899095] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>So I still put 400% DK at lower than Armstrong, who Raiden was able to beat. Raiden doesn't struggle with large enemies either, as seen in the Excelsus fight. Honestly, this DK might be able to beat the RAY that Raiden fought at the beginning of the game. Might is the key word there, I still think RAY has an advantage. But that was Raiden at his absolute weakest in the game, and he still styled all over that thing. DK has Mewtwo's help, but if DK is fighting Raiden, Mewtwo has to deal with Gordon. Mewtwo probably wins first, but not quickly enough to save DK. And while Mewtwo's good, Raiden's better.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mistaya 03/02/23 2:51:55 AM #57:	Raiden duos with the Crowbar King. Gorden plays with Mewtwo while Raiden cleans up Kong Crew and Bowser, and then comes in for the finish. I thought about it a lot and the only way I think DK can win this is by grabbing Raiden and throwing both himself and Raiden into the lava, and the odds of that aren't great. It's possible, given DK's current form, but... hm. no I just can't. I've argued Raiden down when he deserved it but here Gorden protected him from anything that could slow him down so Jack is gonna Rip. Pokemon psychic has never been shown to do anything besides temporarily confuse enemies, it's not like mewtwo is actually getting inside his head. Which I believe Raiden would be weak to! But yeah, not how it works. --- I've dodged these forums for 25 years, damn it. <cite>Mistaya posted [p:971900130] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Raiden duos with the Crowbar King. Gorden plays with Mewtwo while Raiden cleans up Kong Crew and Bowser, and then comes in for the finish. I thought about it a lot and the only way I think DK can win this is by grabbing Raiden and throwing both himself and Raiden into the lava, and the odds of that aren't great. It's possible, given DK's current form, but... hm. no I just can't. I've argued Raiden down when he deserved it but here Gorden protected him from anything that could slow him down so Jack is gonna Rip.Pokemon psychic has never been shown to do anything besides temporarily confuse enemies, it's not like mewtwo is actually getting inside his head. Which I believe Raiden would be weak to! But yeah, not how it works. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SirChris 03/02/23 6:17:24 AM #58:	team raiden anyone else but raiden here and the other team wins as dk + mewtwo is extremely dangerous but raiden is just too much here. Also Gordon does enough to hamper to win. Kind of close though with dk getting crazy time buffs and mewtwo's ability to give boosts. It's just raiden is dumb --- Acknowledge Me "Yeah Chris is right." - Eddv, no context required. <cite>SirChris posted [p:971901546] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>team raidenanyone else but raiden here and the other team wins as dk + mewtwo is extremely dangerous but raiden is just too much here. Also Gordon does enough to hamper to win. Kind of close though with dk getting crazy time buffs and mewtwo's ability to give boosts. It's just raiden is dumb </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SirChris 03/02/23 6:17:55 AM #59:	Mistaya posted... Raiden duos with the Crowbar King. Gorden plays with Mewtwo while Raiden cleans up Kong Crew and Bowser, and then comes in for the finish. I thought about it a lot and the only way I think DK can win this is by grabbing Raiden and throwing both himself and Raiden into the lava, and the odds of that aren't great. It's possible, given DK's current form, but... hm. no I just can't. I've argued Raiden down when he deserved it but here Gorden protected him from anything that could slow him down so Jack is gonna Rip. Pokemon psychic has never been shown to do anything besides temporarily confuse enemies, it's not like mewtwo is actually getting inside his head. Which I believe Raiden would be weak to! But yeah, not how it works. Confuse Ray could be hilarious --- Acknowledge Me "Yeah Chris is right." - Eddv, no context required. <cite>SirChris posted [p:971901550] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Mistaya posted... </cite><quote>Raiden duos with the Crowbar King. Gorden plays with Mewtwo while Raiden cleans up Kong Crew and Bowser, and then comes in for the finish. I thought about it a lot and the only way I think DK can win this is by grabbing Raiden and throwing both himself and Raiden into the lava, and the odds of that aren't great. It's possible, given DK's current form, but... hm. no I just can't. I've argued Raiden down when he deserved it but here Gorden protected him from anything that could slow him down so Jack is gonna Rip.Pokemon psychic has never been shown to do anything besides temporarily confuse enemies, it's not like mewtwo is actually getting inside his head. Which I believe Raiden would be weak to! But yeah, not how it works.</quote>Confuse Ray could be hilarious </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AriaOfBolo 03/02/23 6:42:10 AM #60:	I feel like y'all are forgetting Bowser is here too (and the small Kongs but I don't expect more than a mild distraction from them) --- New name, new gender, same great Bolo flavor! Stronger than the storms that they've shown you <cite>AriaOfBolo posted [p:971901750] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>I feel like y'all are forgetting Bowser is here too(and the small Kongs but I don't expect more than a mild distraction from them)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SirChris 03/02/23 7:19:34 AM #61:	AriaOfBolo posted... I feel like y'all are forgetting Bowser is here too (and the small Kongs but I don't expect more than a mild distraction from them) Tell me what you think bowser does here --- Acknowledge Me "Yeah Chris is right." - Eddv, no context required. <cite>SirChris posted [p:971902057] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>AriaOfBolo posted... </cite><quote>I feel like y'all are forgetting Bowser is here too(and the small Kongs but I don't expect more than a mild distraction from them)</quote>Tell me what you think bowser does here </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AriaOfBolo 03/02/23 7:28:49 AM #62:	I think at worst he tanks a couple hits that don't go to Mewtwo and DK, and at best he can help swing a duel. He's got flight via the Clown Car, he knows the terrain and isn't that bothered by lava, he's got minions to send in ahead of himself, he's got Mechakoopa and Poison Gas and Terrorize, he can heck somebody up pretty bad if he gets in melee. --- New name, new gender, same great Bolo flavor! Stronger than the storms that they've shown you <cite>AriaOfBolo posted [p:971902147] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>I think at worst he tanks a couple hits that don't go to Mewtwo and DK, and at best he can help swing a duel. He's got flight via the Clown Car, he knows the terrain and isn't that bothered by lava, he's got minions to send in ahead of himself, he's got Mechakoopa and Poison Gas and Terrorize, he can heck somebody up pretty bad if he gets in melee.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AriaOfBolo 03/02/23 7:31:49 AM #63:	like I'm not sure if I take him 1v1 over Gordon but I don't think he's a non-factor either --- New name, new gender, same great Bolo flavor! Stronger than the storms that they've shown you <cite>AriaOfBolo posted [p:971902172] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>like I'm not sure if I take him 1v1 over Gordon but I don't think he's a non-factor either</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SirChris 03/02/23 8:09:28 AM #64:	AriaOfBolo posted... I think at worst he tanks a couple hits that don't go to Mewtwo and DK, and at best he can help swing a duel. He's got flight via the Clown Car, he knows the terrain and isn't that bothered by lava, he's got minions to send in ahead of himself, he's got Mechakoopa and Poison Gas and Terrorize, he can heck somebody up pretty bad if he gets in melee. What does terrorize do? --- Acknowledge Me "Yeah Chris is right." - Eddv, no context required. <cite>SirChris posted [p:971902543] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>AriaOfBolo posted... </cite><quote>I think at worst he tanks a couple hits that don't go to Mewtwo and DK, and at best he can help swing a duel. He's got flight via the Clown Car, he knows the terrain and isn't that bothered by lava, he's got minions to send in ahead of himself, he's got Mechakoopa and Poison Gas and Terrorize, he can heck somebody up pretty bad if he gets in melee.</quote>What does terrorize do?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
greengravy294 03/02/23 8:21:27 AM #65:	Kamekguy posted... -Uses the spell Terrorize, which causes a Fear effect on a group of enemies (cuts attack and defense in half --- https://imgur.com/a/LEqiW https://imgur.com/iXHxhET <cite>greengravy294 posted [p:971902666] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Kamekguy posted... </cite><quote>-Uses the spell Terrorize, which causes a Fear effect on a group of enemies (cuts attack and defense in half</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 03/02/23 8:21:44 AM #66:	I have almost zero respect for the whole King family, even a juiced DK so this is basically Raiden and Gordon vs M2 Which Raiden Freeman sweep --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:971902670] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>I have almost zero respect for the whole King family, even a juiced DK so this is basically Raiden and Gordon vs M2Which Raiden Freeman sweep</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SirChris 03/02/23 8:32:47 AM #67:	Oh wait. We got debuffs? switch to mewtwo dk bowser okay Raiden being debuffed physically is a problem. I have Raiden clearing mewtwo without debuffs but half attack is actually a pretty nasty debuff. Mewtwo's ability to buff and heal is a bit of a problem if attack potency is in question at all and bowser being able to inflict such a nasty debuff is brutal. Sorry that I missed that the first time! --- Acknowledge Me "Yeah Chris is right." - Eddv, no context required. <cite>SirChris posted [p:971902793] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Oh wait. We got debuffs?switch to mewtwo dk bowserokay Raiden being debuffed physically is a problem. I have Raiden clearing mewtwo without debuffs but half attack is actually a pretty nasty debuff. Mewtwo's ability to buff and heal is a bit of a problem if attack potency is in question at all and bowser being able to inflict such a nasty debuff is brutal. Sorry that I missed that the first time!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AriaOfBolo 03/02/23 8:39:59 AM #68:	He's got utility these days :D --- New name, new gender, same great Bolo flavor! Stronger than the storms that they've shown you <cite>AriaOfBolo posted [p:971902878] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>He's got utility these days :D</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SirChris 03/02/23 8:44:01 AM #69:	Yeah that's pretty big. Also confuse Ray probably ends up mattering because if there is even s moment's lapse that's gonna be problematic with half defense and attack. Raiden even half stats is really good but 4x dk being buffed and healed along with mewtwo's calm minded absolutely nasty attacks is severely problematic with bowser doing things. Not like you cam just ignore bowser completely even outside of debuffs or he is liable to crack Gordon's skull --- Acknowledge Me "Yeah Chris is right." - Eddv, no context required. <cite>SirChris posted [p:971902922] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Yeah that's pretty big. Also confuse Ray probably ends up mattering because if there is even s moment's lapse that's gonna be problematic with half defense and attack. Raiden even half stats is really good but 4x dk being buffed and healed along with mewtwo's calm minded absolutely nasty attacks is severely problematic with bowser doing things. Not like you cam just ignore bowser completely even outside of debuffs or he is liable to crack Gordon's skull </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Accel_R8 03/02/23 9:17:12 AM #70:	Mewtwo is scary but I think Raiden is strong enough to deal with literally everyone on his own and then it comes down to Raiden and Gordon vs Mewtwo. I think Team Raiden has it. --- https://i.gyazo.com/6fde58a9d13e1f9272a6d6eab35bcff7.png <cite>Accel_R8 posted [p:971903376] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Mewtwo is scary but I think Raiden is strong enough to deal with literally everyone on his own and then it comes down to Raiden and Gordon vs Mewtwo.I think Team Raiden has it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dantezoid 03/02/23 11:18:59 AM #71:	he can fly real high with his jetpack on, with his pistols out, he's one tough kong! --- Boring and mundane signature informing you I'm on a Droid Now with more bold! Less italics due to bold. <cite>Dantezoid posted [p:971905429] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>he can fly real high with his jetpack on, with his pistols out, he's one tough kong! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 03/02/23 11:52:47 AM #72:	Raiden hurting himself in his confusion just sounds like another way to say activating ripper mode. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:971906091] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Raiden hurting himself in his confusion just sounds like another way to say activating ripper mode. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hbthebattle 03/02/23 11:58:05 AM #73:	Lopen posted... Raiden hurting himself in his confusion just sounds like another way to say activating ripper mode. Disable is also a particularly obnoxious one, if we're talking spreading debuffs. --- :) <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:971906184] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Lopen posted... </cite><quote>Raiden hurting himself in his confusion just sounds like another way to say activating ripper mode.</quote>Disable is also a particularly obnoxious one, if we're talking spreading debuffs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 03/02/23 11:59:56 AM #74:	I legitimately don't even know how disable works in a real-time environment if used on something that isn't a Pokmon, a spellcaster, or some fighting game character --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:971906221] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>I legitimately don't even know how disable works in a real-time environment if used on something that isn't a Pokmon, a spellcaster, or some fighting game character</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hbthebattle 03/02/23 12:03:37 PM #75:	oh and if we're talking debuffs, let's read Mewtwo's description. as well as its entire natural learnset from Pokemon: Lets Go Pikachu and Eevee, its natural level-up moves from Pokemon Scarlet & Violet and the move Psystrike "entire natural moveset" reads to me like Mewtwo gets LGPE TMs as well - in other words, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, and Foul Play, of which the last is enormously damaging to Raiden. --- :) <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:971906271] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>oh and if we're talking debuffs, let's read Mewtwo's description.<quote>as well as its entire natural learnset from Pokemon: Lets Go Pikachu and Eevee, its natural level-up moves from Pokemon Scarlet & Violet and the move Psystrike</quote>"entire natural moveset" reads to me like Mewtwo gets LGPE TMs as well - in other words, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, and Foul Play, of which the last is enormously damaging to Raiden.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chaeix 03/02/23 12:06:49 PM #76:	Hbthebattle posted... oh and if we're talking debuffs, let's read Mewtwo's description. "entire natural moveset" reads to me like Mewtwo gets LGPE TMs as well - in other words, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, and Foul Play, of which the last is enormously damaging to Raiden. natural move set means explicitly no TMs --- we're all buds~jc~ <DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs <cite>Chaeix posted [p:971906330] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Hbthebattle posted... </cite><quote>oh and if we're talking debuffs, let's read Mewtwo's description."entire natural moveset" reads to me like Mewtwo gets LGPE TMs as well - in other words, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, and Foul Play, of which the last is enormously damaging to Raiden.</quote>natural move set means explicitly no TMs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 03/02/23 12:07:34 PM #77:	Vs Giant DONKEY KONG After stewing on it enough, I'd say Raiden wins all match-ups where DK isn't his first target, and quite a few where he does. However, I think that DK is his primary target more often than not, because if he's not, the stun shockwave from DK's clap kinda screws with him and is a great aggro machine. Bowser and Mewtwo basically ensure that a war of attrition is lost as long as Gordon's dealt with, and... look I'll be frank, Gordon doesn't impress me. He's fine, he contributes a good deal, but I don't think he outpaces anyone and I don't think he deals with Bowser fast enough after the Koopa King's initial contribution of poison gas, fear, or both (an idea I think Mewtwo could implant into his friend's brain pretty easily) to change the match's tide. And while I would say Raiden would get his pick of the litter here, I feel like the terrain does help control the pace enough that a defensive game has the edge and guides Raiden into the loving embrace of the big ape. Mewtwo's unupgraded and I give it to the other guys, though. No buff passing or healing is bad news. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:971906341] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Vs Giant DONKEY KONGAfter stewing on it enough, I'd say Raiden wins all match-ups where DK isn't his first target, and quite a few where he does. However, I think that DK is his primary target more often than not, because if he's not, the stun shockwave from DK's clap kinda screws with him and is a great aggro machine. Bowser and Mewtwo basically ensure that a war of attrition is lost as long as Gordon's dealt with, and... look I'll be frank, Gordon doesn't impress me. He's fine, he contributes a good deal, but I don't think he outpaces anyone and I don't think he deals with Bowser fast enough after the Koopa King's initial contribution of poison gas, fear, or both (an idea I think Mewtwo could implant into his friend's brain pretty easily) to change the match's tide. And while I would say Raiden would get his pick of the litter here, I feel like the terrain does help control the pace enough that a defensive game has the edge and guides Raiden into the loving embrace of the big ape.Mewtwo's unupgraded and I give it to the other guys, though. No buff passing or healing is bad news.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hbthebattle 03/02/23 12:08:39 PM #78:	Chaeix posted... natural move set means explicitly no TMs then why have a difference in wording between lgpe and sv movesets --- :) <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:971906362] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Chaeix posted... </cite><quote>natural move set means explicitly no TMs</quote>then why have a difference in wording between lgpe and sv movesets</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 03/02/23 12:12:01 PM #79:	Hbthebattle posted... then why have a difference in wording between lgpe and sv movesets SV was gotten on upgrade as a bonus, must've been inconsistent. ... my bad~! --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:971906430] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Hbthebattle posted... </cite><quote>then why have a difference in wording between lgpe and sv movesets</quote>SV was gotten on upgrade as a bonus, must've been inconsistent.... my bad~!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hbthebattle 03/02/23 12:17:50 PM #80:	alright, never mind it then. I still think the debuffs team monke has are enough to even the odds. --- :) <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:971906525] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>alright, never mind it then. I still think the debuffs team monke has are enough to even the odds.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SirChris 03/02/23 12:19:00 PM #81:	Lopen posted... I legitimately don't even know how disable works in a real-time environment if used on something that isn't a Pokmon, a spellcaster, or some fighting game character Well how it works on guns feels obvious. How it might work on melee I don't know --- Acknowledge Me "Yeah Chris is right." - Eddv, no context required. <cite>SirChris posted [p:971906553] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Lopen posted... </cite><quote>I legitimately don't even know how disable works in a real-time environment if used on something that isn't a Pokmon, a spellcaster, or some fighting game character</quote>Well how it works on guns feels obvious. How it might work on melee I don't know </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hbthebattle 03/02/23 12:20:14 PM #82:	yeah i think the big benefit of Disable is shutting off the gravity gun --- :) <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:971906575] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>yeah i think the big benefit of Disable is shutting off the gravity gun</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Arti 03/02/23 3:57:01 PM #83:	The debuffs might make things interesting but I think Team Raiden is just too powerful for the other team to handle here --- http://backloggery.com/articuno2001/sig.gif <cite>Arti posted [p:971910922] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>The debuffs might make things interesting but I think Team Raiden is just too powerful for the other team to handle here</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 03/02/23 5:58:54 PM #84:	So I've had a bunch of time to think about it. Here's how I see this going: -Teams don't meet immediately. Bowser's starting point is fairly fair away, and I think out of both teams' engagement range. This means Mewtwo gets to buff up and possibly apply buffs to DK too. -Raiden is super beast. He's the best combatant on the field and I don't think it's close even with buffs. I don't think he oneshots people though. Diddy and Dixie, sure, Mewtwo if he gets in on him through his barriers, but Bowser will take at least a little bit and DK will take longer. -Gordon's a significant issue. Nobody except Mewtwo has range to check him (I suppose Diddy could jetpack towards him and jump on his face or something? But he dies quick if he tries that). It's an open question if Aria's team gets in on him or not. If they do I think he dies and clears the way for a 1v5, if he doesn't I think he gradually picks people off. -Bowser is super important here. Terrorize buys time to actually fight Raiden off, and if Poison Gas connects and poisons him, it puts a super hard clock on this match. However long you see a Super Mario RPG turn lasting, Raiden will get ten of those max before dying on a successful poison implementation, and Mewtwo can scam that time out if he focuses wholly on flying and not attacking. He has no robots to heal off of here. Additionally, if Bowser gets in on Gordon, I think he probably wins thanks to Mewtwo's healing. -Mewtwo and DK are both required to deal with Raiden at all times. One isn't enough, at all, and I think if it's just the two of them vs Raiden, Raiden eventually wins. Essentially, this match swings on the axis of 'who dies first? Gordon or Bowser?' I think in a slightly less open terrain, Gordon takes it easily. Splitting Bowser up enough that Mewtwo's healing sprinkles can't hit him is all it takes to win a (somewhat) protracted battle, but this terrain is very open, and while Diddy isn't great, he can at least distract Gordon long enough to give Bowser a chance to reach him. And if that happens, I think he can then start debuffing Raiden hard and putting a clock on him. It's a very close match, but overall, I think his team wins. Team Bowser --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:971913655] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>So I've had a bunch of time to think about it. Here's how I see this going:-Teams don't meet immediately. Bowser's starting point is fairly fair away, and I think out of both teams' engagement range. This means Mewtwo gets to buff up and possibly apply buffs to DK too.-Raiden is super beast. He's the best combatant on the field and I don't think it's close even with buffs. I don't think he oneshots people though. Diddy and Dixie, sure, Mewtwo if he gets in on him through his barriers, but Bowser will take at least a little bit and DK will take longer.-Gordon's a significant issue. Nobody except Mewtwo has range to check him (I suppose Diddy could jetpack towards him and jump on his face or something? But he dies quick if he tries that). It's an open question if Aria's team gets in on him or not. If they do I think he dies and clears the way for a 1v5, if he doesn't I think he gradually picks people off.-Bowser is super important here. Terrorize buys time to actually fight Raiden off, and if Poison Gas connects and poisons him, it puts a super hard clock on this match. However long you see a Super Mario RPG turn lasting, Raiden will get ten of those max before dying on a successful poison implementation, and Mewtwo can scam that time out if he focuses wholly on flying and not attacking. He has no robots to heal off of here. Additionally, if Bowser gets in on Gordon, I think he probably wins thanks to Mewtwo's healing.-Mewtwo and DK are both required to deal with Raiden at all times. One isn't enough, at all, and I think if it's just the two of them vs Raiden, Raiden eventually wins.Essentially, this match swings on the axis of 'who dies first? Gordon or Bowser?' I think in a slightly less open terrain, Gordon takes it easily. Splitting Bowser up enough that Mewtwo's healing sprinkles can't hit him is all it takes to win a (somewhat) protracted battle, but this terrain is very open, and while Diddy isn't great, he can at least distract Gordon long enough to give Bowser a chance to reach him. And if that happens, I think he can then start debuffing Raiden hard and putting a clock on him. It's a very close match, but overall, I think his team wins.Team Bowser</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 03/02/23 6:34:18 PM #85:	So I think that 4x DK is straight up better, faster, and stronger too than Armstrong. The big issue is his durability - the Murasama will cut through him like butter. He can't afford mistakes, which is why a competent gunner like Gordon providing Raiden support is a big problem. DK + Mewtwo > Raiden, but Raiden + Gordon > DK + Mewtwo. However, I kinda see DK taking out Gordon really early. Big monke is going to get annoyed by the bullets, then immediately swing over and knock him out with a single punch. Like seriously, DK's size and being four times speed means that he's by far the most mobile character here. It's basically going to be a scene out of Kong: Skull Island. After that, Raiden is left with zero backup. He might still be able to clutch it out against DK and Mewtwo...but apparently Bowser has debuffs, so he exists too. It's 55-45 odds but I give it to DK, Mewtwo, Bowser --- It's Reyn Time. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:971914376] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>So I think that 4x DK is straight up better, faster, and stronger too than Armstrong. The big issue is his durability - the Murasama will cut through him like butter. He can't afford mistakes, which is why a competent gunner like Gordon providing Raiden support is a big problem. DK + Mewtwo > Raiden, but Raiden + Gordon > DK + Mewtwo.However, I kinda see DK taking out Gordon really early. Big monke is going to get annoyed by the bullets, then immediately swing over and knock him out with a single punch. Like seriously, DK's size and being four times speed means that he's by far the most mobile character here. It's basically going to be a scene out of Kong: Skull Island. After that, Raiden is left with zero backup. He might still be able to clutch it out against DK and Mewtwo...but apparently Bowser has debuffs, so he exists too.It's 55-45 odds but I give it to DK, Mewtwo, Bowser</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drakeryn 03/02/23 7:04:33 PM #86:	Raiden & Gordon it's closer than it looks, but I don't think Supergiant DK (even with 4x speed, etc.) is quite in Raiden's league. most of his teammates are riff-raff. Mewtwo is decent backup fire and good utility, but not enough to swing things. re: psychic attacks: based on how they work in-game, I don't see them functioning as attacks on the enemy's psyche, just as ranged damage that happens to be of the psychic element. re: disable: in a realtime environment I see it being able to disable specific techniques (e.g. Omnislash) but not general melee autoattacks, so it's not particularly useful against Raiden. --- another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high <cite>Drakeryn posted [p:971914949] in ~FIGHT!~ G... [t:80365434]...</cite> <quote>Raiden & Gordonit's closer than it looks, but I don't think Supergiant DK (even with 4x speed, etc.) is quite in Raiden's league. most of his teammates are riff-raff. Mewtwo is decent backup fire and good utility, but not enough to swing things.re: psychic attacks: based on how they work in-game, I don't see them functioning as attacks on the enemy's psyche, just as ranged damage that happens to be of the psychic element.re: disable: in a realtime environment I see it being able to disable specific techniques (e.g. Omnislash) but not general melee autoattacks, so it's not particularly useful against Raiden.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List	Page List: 1, 2

Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Gordon Freeman, Raiden vs. Donkey, Diddy&Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Bowser (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Gordon Freeman, Raiden vs. Donkey, Diddy&Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Bowser