Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Cloud/Vivi/Liquid Snake/Zeratul/Maria v Batman/Kiryu/Leon/Mega Man/Rika

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lopen posted...

https://youtu.be/mq85kxJfcLA

playback on other websites has been disabled by the video owner

Lopen posted...

https://youtu.be/mlkHfevQdw4

Wont playback what is this?

Edited with non jerk link

Oh nevermind

Not Arkham games so not valid. (Plus the guys on my team are way better than some randos from Gotham)

So question on visualizing the terrain.

Can the Batmobile not go down the really long pathway that leads to the harbor where the Rex Vs Ray fight is? That's in the same general direction as the snowfield iirc and doesn't require going all the way through a huge military installation? Plus Batman teleporting ahead and guiding the Batmobile to his location with Mega Man riding it.

Like if I'm wrong I get it, but I figure that actually gets Rock in a position to contribute past corpse sneak attack?

True, actually.

Team Cloud

Just a nice triple threat of problems for Batman here. Giant assault vehicle which is going to require a lot output to bring down, a cloaked psychic to screw with his ambush strats, and Cloud who can straight up beat him in an honest fight.

I do think Batman could beat any one of the three but their combined might is too much for him.

Kamekguy posted...

So question on visualizing the terrain.

Can the Batmobile not go down the really long pathway that leads to the harbor where the Rex Vs Ray fight is? That's in the same general direction as the snowfield iirc and doesn't require going all the way through a huge military installation? Plus Batman teleporting ahead and guiding the Batmobile to his location with Mega Man riding it.

Like if I'm wrong I get it, but I figure that actually gets Rock in a position to contribute past corpse sneak attack?

It's a rather rocky terrain if you try to go outside of the area Snake went. I don't think the Batmobile has shown any good ATV feats in the Arkham games, so it won't fare too well around here (plus it might even get stuck in the snow)

Mewtwo59 posted...

It's a rather rocky terrain if you try to go outside of the area Snake went. I don't think the Batmobile has shown any good ATV feats in the Arkham games, so it won't fare too well around here (plus it might even get stuck in the snow)

Yeah this is the issue.

I know the comic batmobile can drive on walls but no clue if THIS batmobile can.

I dont wanna vote til I give batman his due but it looks bad.

What is the Arkham Batmobile exactly btw

I personally am in the camp of just allowing Arkham Batman to be movie Batman because the feats from the movies aren't particularly out of line with Arkham power scale, the comics are the problem, but the actual Batmobile and Gadgets he's getting are relevant.

A taste of bat mobile. Very fast. Can drive on walls in the tunnel in this video. Batman can call it to him when hes not in it. Turret. Different attack modes. Missiles. Theres some kind of sonar scanner for locating people. It has a jet boost and shields when its fully upgraded.

https://youtu.be/o5e-k6SXBwM

Arkham video game Batman is >>>>>> movie Batman in any recent movie including Dark Knight and later. He can use his bat suit + grappling to basically fly while gliding. I dont know if he actually flies, but it looks like he gains altitude in some of the cutscenes Ive seen. He fights villains for hours straight without needing rest. He is very, very fast when he wants to be and isnt stealthing. Video below first ten seconds for gliding feats.

https://youtu.be/EtW0fZuDjy4

More to come.

Lopen posted...

What is the Arkham Batmobile exactly btw

I personally am in the camp of just allowing Arkham Batman to be movie Batman because the feats from the movies aren't particularly out of line with Arkham power scale, the comics are the problem, but the actual Batmobile and Gadgets he's getting are relevant.

So Arkham Knight features a Batmobile that can turn into a battle tank. It has missiles, miniguns a 60mm cannon and also nonlethal ammunition. It also has an electrical charge to shock enemies that try to get into melee range of it, has EMP charges and can hack drones, plus some other lesser utility bits not worth talking about. It's very tough and can take several laser or missile blasts without going down, also. It's very much Batman's heavy artillery for when he can't 1v1 someone and has to turn up the heat. I'll see if I can find a solid showcase of it.

It seems like things like that small staircase near the beginning of the video causes it some trouble while it's boosting. I don't think it's going to end well if it tries to go offroad in rocky terrain, especially if visibility is as low as it was in MGS4.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

So Arkham Knight features a Batmobile that can turn into a battle tank. It has missiles, miniguns a 60mm cannon and also nonlethal ammunition. It also has an electrical charge to shock enemies that try to get into melee range of it, has EMP charges and can hack drones, plus some other lesser utility bits not worth talking about. It's very tough and can take several laser or missile blasts without going down, also. It's very much Batman's heavy artillery for when he can't 1v1 someone and has to turn up the heat. I'll see if I can find a solid showcase of it.

how much of this can the Batmobile use without Batman driving

Also notably the Batmobile can fight on its own. Kinda relevant because it lets Batman use it at the anvil while he serves as a hammer, hitting from the other side.

Chaeix posted...

how much of this can the Batmobile use without Batman driving

https://youtu.be/BT68MNiBLOM?t=42

Bare minimum the cannons and the riot knockout. No reason to think the miniguns and missiles are off the table, nor the electric shocks. The EMP and drone hacks, maybe not?

If Batman is in his batmobile does it teleport with him

Lopen posted...

If Batman is in his batmobile does it teleport with him

Uhh, up to interp? I would certainly assume so, provided no one else was hitching a ride or could perceive them. It's why I don't put that much stock into the elevator ambush. Batman can detective mode on the elevator, go 'oh, they're waiting down below huh' and situate himself while the others come down via the elevator and ambush opponents really hard.

Is that autonomous? Because it says "Select Batmobile Remote" right there on screen. If Batman needs to use a remote to make it do that, then it's not truly autonomous.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Uhh, up to interp? I would certainly assume so, provided no one else was hitching a ride or could perceive them. It's why I don't put that much stock into the elevator ambush. Batman can detective mode on the elevator, go 'oh, they're waiting down below huh' and situate himself while the others come down via the elevator and ambush opponents really hard.

My team is at the top of the elevator, not the bottom. And that elevator is the only way into the room where my team is, unless the other team wants to wander around a low visibility snowfield for a path that they have no idea exists.

Hmm ok so Leon and Kiryu CAN get to the fight then

With Mega Man, it doesn't just say "he attacks," its bolded saying he revives and attacks. So the only way I can possibly imagine the Mega Man thing working is

Mega Man dies, unable to be revived. Bold text. Then another version of himself, at full health, sneak attacks. Bold text. This version of himself can only exist while performing the sneak attack.

Bold text is law and the bold text states that he is simultaneously alive and dead until observed

the sneak attack is literally Schrdinger's cat

I had Kamek show me the start zones and here they are

Blue and red ignore the purple. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/9/5/AAR9yWAAEN0r.jpg

Am I misremembering that Tornado Man's weapon clears weather?

I have a vague memory of SOMETHING of Mega Man's clearing bad weather, but I don't recall what and that could absolutely be a fake memory mixing with Cloud Man's stage.

Johnbobb posted...

With Mega Man, it doesn't just say "he attacks," its bolded saying he revives and attacks. So the only way I can possibly imagine the Mega Man thing working is

Mega Man dies, unable to be revived. Bold text. Then another version of himself, at full health, sneak attacks. Bold text. This version of himself can only exist while performing the sneak attack.

Bold text is law and the bold text states that he is simultaneously alive and dead until observed

the sneak attack is literally Schrdinger's cat

This is the best interp

that being said I still think this ultimately goes to Metal Gear Maria

Another thing I forgot to mention is that Batman isn't the only guy here who can teleport. So can Zeratul. So we have an invisible guy with teleports who can read minds. How does he not catch Batman when he teleports in?

A bit closer than I first thought, but I have to go Team Liquid.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Another thing I forgot to mention is that Batman isn't the only guy here who can teleport. So can Zeratul. So we have an invisible guy with teleports who can read minds. How does he not catch Batman when he teleports in?

He certainly does IMO. It's why I don't think Team Batman wins overall. Zeratul shuts Batman's tricks down hard, and the Batmobile doesn't help even the odds when he's got Liquid and Cloud to take care of that issue. If this was a 1v1, Batman could win...but it isn't, and his backup isn't up to task.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Another thing I forgot to mention is that Batman isn't the only guy here who can teleport. So can Zeratul. So we have an invisible guy with teleports who can read minds. How does he not catch Batman when he teleports in?

technically Lady Maria teleports too, but only maybe 20 yards at most? at least that you can see in her fight

Ctrl + F + Rika

We have gone the entire second page without even considering the single strongest modifier on the map

This is why no one should ever buy mercs that aren't just easily parseable combat utility. People don't want to think about weird effects and will just ignore them

KamikazePotato posted...

Ctrl + F + Rika

We have gone the entire second page without even considering the single strongest modifier on the map

This is why no one should ever buy mercs that aren't just easily parseable combat utility. People don't want to think about weird effects and will just ignore them

I mean I thought about it

I just feel like even with retries, Batman really does have to more or less solo this and that's painful because no one on the enemy team bar Vivi goes down easy. If Mega Man was fully alive I think they have a strong shot, but as things stand...

team shadow moses

i thought a lot about rika

too much about rika

please make it stop

So Rika is the only reason Im considering batman being able to pull this off.

But ultimately, Zeratul, is a big problem since he can sense batmans presence and I think thats a big problem because while batmans instincts are gonna be to tele-scout once Zeratul observes him he cant teleport away and more importantly that becomes intel that Rika doesnt get which will make it hard for her to guide him beyond "Dont do that"

So their best plan of action is gonna be to drive the Batmobile up the side of the terrain and come as fast as they can and team Batman would need to possess an overwhelming firepower superiority but the rex and Lady maria are super beefy and zeratul poses his own problems.

Just too much going against them.

I think Rika is not being thought about enough by certain people but it's not in the way you would think.

The big limiters are how much information she can really convey that's relevant to solving how to win a fight. Yes this didn't work but why. Is it going to be easily known? There are certain benefits Batman will get like knowing there is an invisible enemy, but there are a lot of moving parts to solve and beyond basic "that plan didn't work" and some enemy briefings the amount she can contribute is minimal particularly given Batman needs to basically solo here and the butterfly effect is real.

Honestly without Zeratul I think Batman would have some shot at pulling this off, but psionically booping off the quantum teleportation is a mega-oof, and I don't think Rika will ever realize that's what's happening.

Team Liquid takes this

Chaeix posted...

team shadow moses

i thought a lot about rika

too much about rika

please make it stop

No, you're here forever

In all seriousness there's been actual discussion now so I withdraw my complaints. Also had more time to think about it and yeah, switch to Zeratul. I actually take teleporting Batman with a small amount of retries on Shadow Moses over the rest of the enemy team. I don't think any of them handle stealth (and the batmobile) well at all. Zeratul really ruins his gameplan though.

Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower

i don't understand how rika could ever give useful info to batman, who will be acting solo the majority of the fight, who doesn't know she has the timeloop ability, so has no reason to ever report to her

Batman doesnt seem like the kind of person to work together with others good call Dante

On the other hand Batman is absolutely the king of making sure no one knows he's there, he can pretty much teleport at will

yeah batman is the GOAT person to have that ability

Can he still teleport if people smell him?

I'm sure that suit reeks

i say he can't teleport if people smell him but i also think he knows this and had his suit dry cleaned before the match

[Batman] is aware he is incapable of permanently killing anyone in this fight.

what does this mean

like, I can think of two interpretations

(1) Batman has a no-kill policy, but he knows that no matter what he does, everyone will be ok next week, so he can go all-out without worries [good for Batman]

(2) Batman is combat hamstrung not to be able to kill anyone in this match [bad for Batman]

in other news, bold is bold. Mega Man's corpse absolutely makes a sneak attack, and it works because ability magic

I consider a corpse ragdolling down from five feet up to be an attack

Drakeryn posted...

in other news, bold is bold. Mega Man's corpse absolutely makes a sneak attack, and it works because ability magic

Thank you, Drakeryn.

really silly ability conflict but team rex is so much stronger here it thankfully doesn't matter