Poll of the Day > Another Day, Another Mass School Shooting...

(+) Yeah! (+)

adjl posted...

A trans person who attended a Christian private school in Tennessee and ended up with severe mental health issues later in life? I can't imagine how that happened, or why the school ended up being the target of their breakdown

Nice victim blaming.

pionear posted...

Actually Transgendered

are you saying they arent/werent female?

also I dont think transgendered is an appropriate term

MightBeOverSoon posted...

Nice victim blaming.

Yes and no. Did the school deserve to be shot up? No. There's zero chance that the child victims had anything to do with the shooter's mental state and a significant chance that at least 2/3 adult victims were similarly innocent (the substitute teacher probably wasn't even there 20 years ago, the custodian likely had little interaction with the former student, the only plausible personal vendetta would be against the "top administrator," and even that's just speculative), and even if one or more of them were responsible, that doesn't mean they deserved to die for it. Did the school as an institution play a role in the shooter's mental health deteriorating to such a critical point? Almost certainly.

It's likely not the only factor in that, since it would only have been part of a broader transphobic culture that harmed the person's mental health, but it's still important to recognize the role the school played in the mental health of this and every other trans person who attends/attended. Even if we still want to shy away from blaming them for the shooting because victim blaming feels icky, I expect there are plenty of cases where they can be blamed for trans (or gay, for that matter) people experiencing depression or anxiety, having relationships fall apart because they tried to force themselves to be something they aren't, self-harming, or committing suicide. That's just the reality of what anti-LGBT culture does to LGBT people.

Now, of course, this is speculation. Maybe the school is actually super LGBT-friendly and just ended up being a target because the shooter fell into a rabbit hole of self-loathing transphobia and blamed the school for not doing enough to discourage them from coming out. We don't know for sure, and probably never will because any understanding we have of their motivations is going to be heavily filtered through the police and media. The bottom line, though, is that addressing this epidemic of gun violence has to include addressing the mental health issues that are underscoring it, and for gay and especially trans people suffering from mental health issues, anti-LGBT culture plays a substantial role in causing them. That needs to be called out for more reasons than just "this one time a trans person shot up a school," because - like all mental health issues - it's causing far more harm than just what makes national headlines. The only way to curtail this is to address that.

adjl posted...

Yes and no

It's just yes. And then you wrote a novel to justify it and nobody's going to read it. Certainly not me. I don't listen to victim blamers.

MightBeOverSoon posted...

It's just yes. And then you wrote a novel to justify it and nobody's going to read it. Certainly not me. I don't listen to victim blamers.

If an abused child kills their abusive parent, do you assign any responsibility for that outcome to the abusive parent?

So I'm trying to avoid all the bullshit drivel being pushed by various media publications.

The one answer I can't simply find is whether or not she died or if she was apprehended. Can someone please answer that much for me?

Krow_Incarnate posted...

So I'm trying to avoid all the bullshit drivel being pushed by various media publications.

The one answer I can't simply find is whether or not she died or if she was apprehended. Can someone please answer that much for me?

They were killed by police from what I read

Krow_Incarnate posted...

The one answer I can't simply find is whether or not she died or if she was apprehended. Can someone please answer that much for me?

They shot the shit out of her

ya, the alt-right are bragging pretty hard right now... really gross

Yeah they just released body cam footage showing them taking down the shooter

dayum. That osmos is a fucking tool

Jen0125 posted...

Yeah they just released body cam footage showing them taking down the shooter

i just watched that on reddit. shit was intense and rather surreal. definitely need more mental health support and better gun laws

adjl posted...

If an abused child kills their abusive parent, do you assign any responsibility for that outcome to the abusive parent?

She killed a bunch of young children. Not sure how you equate them to an abusive parent.

The solution is obvious. The kids need guns too.

I mean sure, they should require remote activation by the teacher, but they could defend themselves then.
And really, elementary schools should teach gun safety and use. My dad taught me at 5 years old. Proceeded to shoot myself with a bb gun.

adjl posted...

If an abused child kills their abusive parent, do you assign any responsibility for that outcome to the abusive parent?

So those innocent kids were like abusive parents to this person they never met?

Your stance is irreconcilable. Admit it and step the fuck back.

Ozmose posted...

She killed a bunch of young children. Not sure how you equate them to an abusive parent.

Not hard to connect the dots if you're smart enough

adjl was speaking to a potential motive for the shooter being having possibly been abused by people at the school. The school represents a place where substantial trauma occurred for them (allegedly, motive is still unclear and may never be known). The children, and possibly the adults, were innocent bystanders, which is something adjl spoke to if you were paying any attention

Soooo... Shooter targeting the school where they were abused, child targeting their abusive parents... Not hard to suss out the comparison

MightBeOverSoon posted...

So those innocent kids were like abusive parents to this person they never met?

Your stance is irreconcilable. Admit it and step the fuck back.

Admit you can't be bothered to read adjl's prior response and then criticize it on grounds that he covered in said response. Solid detective work as usual lmao

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Not hard to connect the dots if you're smart enough

adjl was speaking to a potential motive for the shooter being having possibly been abused by people at the school. The school represents a place where substantial trauma occurred for them (allegedly, motive is still unclear and may never be known). The children, and possibly the adults, were innocent bystanders, which is something adjl spoke to if you were paying any attention

Soooo... Shooter targeting the school where they were abused, child targeting their abusive parents... Not hard to suss out the comparison

Admit you can't be bothered to read adjl's prior response and then criticize it on grounds that he covered in said response. Solid detective work as usual lmao

I don't listen to victim blamers. You are one too? Cool. Disregarded.

Ozmose posted...

She killed a bunch of young children. Not sure how you equate them to an abusive parent.

I don't.

MightBeOverSoon posted...

So those innocent kids were like abusive parents to this person they never met?

adjl posted...

Did the school deserve to be shot up? No. There's zero chance that the child victims had anything to do with the shooter's mental state and a significant chance that at least 2/3 adult victims were similarly innocent

Oh hey, look at me saying exactly the opposite of what you thought I said. That's gotta be embarrassing. If only you could have avoided this somehow.

adjl posted...

Did the school deserve to be shot up? No. There's zero chance that the child victims had anything to do with the shooter's mental state and a significant chance that at least 2/3 adult victims were similarly innocent

"Did that girl who was wearing skimpy clothes deserve to get raped? No, of course not, but that doesnt mean blah blah blah"

^^^^literally you right now. stop being a clown and acting like there is any justification for what happened. what you said was victim blaming. cut and fucking dry.

Notice how its usually the straight white guys who spew this shit? Its because a lot of them havent had to actually experience being fucking powerless.

tone deaf to the max.

Jen0125 posted...

Cartel violence in Mexico isn't an American mass shooting

Still a 'Mass Shooting' regardless...so if it happens outside the US it's less important or something?

are you saying they arent/werent female?

also I dont think transgendered is an appropriate term

Well, 'Transgender'...and I'm just posting what is being reported, sure I'm not sure if it's FTM or MTF (I'm assuming MTF)
And it is appropriate since the person has passed.

EDIT: It's FTM (an article said they started to recently use 'He/Him' pronouns')

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Soooo... Shooter targeting the school where they were abused, child targeting their abusive parents... Not hard to suss out the comparison

The thing is, she didn't target the school. She targeted random kids in the school. Targeting the school would be more like burning the building down, or shooting the administrators that runs the place. She also had a second location she planned to hit before this. She passed on that one though because she considered it too hard of a target, which speaks volumes about the mindset of this coward.

MeatiestMeatus posted...

adjl was speaking to a potential motive for the shooter being having possibly been abused by people at the school. The school represents a place where substantial trauma occurred for them (allegedly, motive is still unclear and may never be known). The children, and possibly the adults, were innocent bystanders, which is something adjl spoke to if you were paying any attention

Soooo... Shooter targeting the school where they were abused, child targeting their abusive parents... Not hard to suss out the comparison

I was more just raising a scenario in which it's very easy to defend blaming the victim, leading in to the conclusion that victim blaming is sometimes appropriate with a few truckloads of caveats (most notably, trying to avoid "they deserved this" and instead focusing on "this is what people in similar situations can do to prevent similar outcomes"), but that's also relevant. They targeted the school as an institution, irrationally lashing out over some perceived harm (real or otherwise, though as I insinuated, a trans student at a Christian private school in Tennessee probably did suffer some real harm). Most or all of the individual victims were most likely just bystanders in that attack. The blame I'm considering is to the school as an institution (and transphobic culture in a broader sense), not for any of the individual victims.

Ozmose posted...

Alright Im done here.

i thought you were done here?

agesboy posted...

i thought you were done here?

I came back. I know, it's a pretty big concept to wrap your head around.

adjl posted...

victim blaming is sometimes appropriate

Literally all you needed to say to let people know what you meant. The rest of that is just you trying to justify what you know full fucking well is wrong.

Ozmose posted...

I came back. I know, it's a pretty big concept to wrap your head around.

"I'm angry and am gonna excuse myself so I don't make an even bigger fool of myself"

"Just kidding I'm gonna stay angry and complain why are you so dumb"

Ozmose posted...

The thing is, she didn't target the school. She targeted random kids in the school. Targeting the school would be more like burning the building down, or shooting the administrators that runs the place.

You say this as a lucid, rational person. Lucid, rational people generally don't commit mass murder, so thinking about mass murderers in lucid, rational terms is often a mistake. Beyond that, though, one of the victims was one of the administrators running the place (though whether she was in charge when the shooter was a student is currently unknown), and the shooter could very easily have arrived at the conclusion that they could hurt everyone else in charge by killing people they cared about (students and colleagues). There are more ways to hurt somebody than just shooting them, after all.

MightBeOverSoon posted...

"Did that girl who was wearing skimpy clothes deserve to get raped? No, of course not, but that doesnt mean blah blah blah"

^^^^literally you right now. stop being a clown and acting like there is any justification for what happened. what you said was victim blaming. cut and fucking dry.

I like how you openly admit to not reading what I've said, then try to tell me what I've said. I also like how you're equating "maybe people shouldn't be transphobic douchebags to improve the mental health of trans people" to "we should police what women wear for their own safety," which says a lot about how much thought you've actually put into the issue.

MightBeOverSoon posted...

Literally all you needed to say to let people know what you meant. The rest of that is just you trying to justify what you know full fucking well is wrong.

So you don't assign any responsibility to an abusive parent for the outcome of being killed by their abused kid?

adjl posted...

I like how you openly admit to not reading what I've said, then try to tell me what I've said

I quoted the only part anyone needed to hear, which was when you said "victim blaming is sometimes appropriate"

I think I'll go ahead an mute you now. I dont really like victim blamers.

MightBeOverSoon posted...

I quoted the only part anyone needed to hear

Again, an assessment you make without knowing what else is there.

MightBeOverSoon posted...

I dont really like victim blamers.

You married one. Schmen was rather fond of the phrase "there are no victims, only volunteers."

Jen0125 posted...

They were killed by police from what I read

Thank you.

adjl posted...

I was more just raising a scenario in which it's very easy to defend blaming the victim, leading in to the conclusion that victim blaming is sometimes appropriate with a few truckloads of caveats (most notably, trying to avoid "they deserved this" and instead focusing on "this is what people in similar situations can do to prevent similar outcomes"), but that's also relevant. They targeted the school as an institution, irrationally lashing out over some perceived harm (real or otherwise, though as I insinuated, a trans student at a Christian private school in Tennessee probably did suffer some real harm). Most or all of the individual victims were most likely just bystanders in that attack. The blame I'm considering is to the school as an institution (and transphobic culture in a broader sense), not for any of the individual victims.

Gotcha. Still, not difficult to see that it's not a completely left-field point if one bothers to rub a couple brain cells together before responding to your post

adjl posted...

You married one. Schmen was rather fond of the phrase "there are no victims, only volunteers."

Got em

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Gotcha. Still, not difficult to see that it's not a completely left-field point if one bothers to rub a couple brain cells together before responding to your post

Indeed. Mostly, I'm not suggesting that it's justified, I just understand why it might have happened, the wider-reaching consequences of that root cause, and what can be done to address that root cause (namely, people should stop being transphobic doogiewonkers) before more people continue to get hurt. This is not the first time that transphobia has resulted in dead kids (assuming this is an example of that issue), and it won't be the last. There just usually aren't any non-trans victims.

Krow_Incarnate posted...

Thank you.

Yeah, I saw the bodycam footage

The shooter was down, and I'm guessing still reaching for a gun because they just kept yelling "stop moving" and kept shooting.

It's always so crazy to me how fast this shit happens. Makes me realize if I was ever in the situation I would be an absolute fucking liability. I'm slow when I'm not nervous. Adrenaline may as well paralyze me.

MightBeOverSoon posted...

Yeah, I saw the bodycam footage

The shooter was down, and I'm guessing still reaching for a gun because they just kept yelling "stop moving" and kept shooting.

It's always so crazy to me how fast this shit happens. Makes me realize if I was ever in the situation I would be an absolute fucking liability. I'm slow when I'm not nervous. Adrenaline may as well paralyze me.

Probably not reaching for anything. A common thing in all these videos of cops killing people is they give them orders even when they're dead. Sometimes they cuff them while they have 20 bullet holes in them. It's just their procedure.

https://twitter.com/SocDoneLeft/status/1640587852009357321

Trans people are actually 10 times less likely than cis people to go on a spree. Doesn't matter. If these people understood statistics or evidence they wouldn't believe the shit they do.

At the very least, put percentages compared to the whole cis and trans populations and then those numbers might be worth something.

Yep. This is the one where transphobes use a shooting as ammo for their arguments.

Odd how you never hear people saying straight people are evil or this is why cisgenderism is wrong when a cishet person does the same thing.

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

At the very least, put percentages compared to the whole cis and trans populations and then those numbers might be worth something.

they would not be worth a damn thing

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

At the very least, put percentages compared to the whole cis and trans populations and then those numbers might be worth something.

Roughly 1.6% of the US population is trans. By the numbers provided in that tweet, roughly 0.11% of mass shootings have been committed by trans people, or roughly 15 times less than would be expected if it were a truly random sample. The discrepancy is actually probably even higher if you start grouping by age (if you just look at the under-30 crowd, ~5% of Americans are trans), but that becomes a much more complex analysis.

Cacciato posted...

And as a side note, the block option is ridiculously stupid when it completely disrupts the point of a message board. Especially when quoting multiple users ends up hiding the entire post.

You can change that setting so that it only blocks posts from the user in question and not from people who quote them. It's somewhere in the user settings - been a while, so I don't remember where and I'm too lazy to go look for it.

Though note that changing that will also allow through quotes from people you've ignored, if that matters to you.

darkknight109 posted...

You can change that setting so that it only blocks posts from the user in question and not from people who quote them. It's somewhere in the user settings - been a while, so I don't remember where and I'm too lazy to go look for it.

Hide ignored quotes

It's under advanced settings.

Thanks boss

darkknight109 posted...

You can change that setting so that it only blocks posts from the user in question and not from people who quote them. It's somewhere in the user settings - been a while, so I don't remember where and I'm too lazy to go look for it.

Oh shit, appreciate it.

adjl posted...

Though note that changing that will also allow through quotes from people you've ignored, if that matters to you.

Nah, I dont have anyone ignored or blocked.

It was just a pain in the ass that someone might quote Ozmose, and then also respond to you, but I miss out on all of it because Ozmose has me blocked.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/2/AAQwHjAAEVMM.jpg

Cacciato posted...

It was just a pain in the ass that someone might quote Ozmose, and then also respond to you, but I miss out on all of it because Ozmose has me blocked.

Yep. It's a terribly bothersome feature. I understand that it has legitimate benefits in certain cases, but more often than not (at least in my perception, which is admittedly skewed because I don't really care about cases that aren't annoying) people just use it to avoid being called out for being wrong, and those people tend to post often enough that it leaves weird holes in topics. Fixing the quote issue helps to alleviate that, at least.

Sometimes I wonder how many people Ozmose can even see post. He most go into threads and see like 3 out of 10 posts or something.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Sometimes I wonder how many people Ozmose can even see post. He most go into threads and see like 3 out of 10 posts or something.

That's common with conservatrolls. Facts often aren't on their side and once they've realized that they're outmatched intellectually they'll ignore talking points (much like they've ignored half of adjl's posts) and retreat into their echo chamber safe space - wherever it is they harvest their misinformation from - to massage their bruised egos

Just dropping in to ask whatever happened to Zeus? Feels like I haven't seen him in over a year.