Board 8 > Rank the Tracks 129: Madonna - Like a Prayer (+Springsteen/Mr. Bungle results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Johnbobb's week:
Rusted Root - When I Woke
vs.
Lawrence - Living Room
vs.
Montaigne - making it!

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks_Set_2
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks_Set_3

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, August 27 at 4:00 PM Central Time; the future week poll will close earlier, when I am putting up the next topic
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle (a new user will be added to the end of the current cycle as long as there are four weeks remaining) - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).
7c. I have added a tiered vote structure - the least popular album will be removed and its backup votes distributed to the other two entrants.
8. Starting with the next cycle, every four weeks will be a competitive week where those listed choose a single album to face off against others.
9. Skits and tracks under 40 seconds will be excluded from the rankings unless argued otherwise

Madonna - Like a Prayer track list:
1. Like a Prayer
2. Express Yourself
3. Love Song
4. Till Death Do Us Part
5. Promise to Try
6. Cherish
7. Dear Jessie
8. Oh Father
9. Keep It Together
10. Spanish Eyes
11. Act of Contrition

Current cycle:
8/27: ZaziGuado (Muse - Black Holes and Revelations)
9/3: firefdr (Franz Ferdinand - Franz Ferdinand)
9/10: Johnbobb
9/17: StifledSilence/FoolFantastic
9/24: VeryInsane
10/1: FoolFantastic
10/8: Seanchan
10/15: neonreaper/rwlh/darkx
10/22: Giggsalot
10/29: RyoCaliente
11/5: darkx
11/12: Steiner/Giggsalot/jcgamer107
11/19: neonreaper
11/26: Great_Paul
12/3: jcgamer107
12/10: Snake5555555555/RyoCaliente/BlueCrystalTear
12/17: ChichiriMuyo
12/24: BlueCrystalTear
12/31: rwlh
1/7: NFUN/Fluttershy_Pony/ChichiriMuyo
1/14: NFUN
1/21: StifledSilence
1/28: MaxGalactica
2/4: VeryInsane/ZaziGuado/HBJDubs

Future Cycle:
2/11: MetalmindStats
2/18: HBJDubs
2/25: Fluttershy_Pony
3/3: competitive week
3/10: Steiner
3/17: Snake5555555555

Johnbobb on this week's choices:

Rusted Root - When I Woke

One of my all-time favorite albums and one I've wanted to see get done for a while now. Best known for Send My On My Way, but the entire album is fantastic and deeply unique start to finish. It's listed as "worldbeat roots rock" which I guess is accurate because I don't really know what else you'd call it, it's just a ton of fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGMabBGydC0

Lawrence - Living Room

A brother/sister duo that's taken off in the last five decade for having a sort of blues/funk/pop vibe and absolutely incredible vocals. Wasn't sure which album to go with out of the 3 they've put out, only because each is a banger. Ultimately chose the one with my favorite song by them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HZ_D8J6ONA

Montaigne - making it!

If you know Montaigne it's probably for one of two things: 1. Technicolour, their performance as the Australian rep at Eurovision or 2. Tom Cardy's Human Centipede song. Their music is all over the place, and some people will love it, and some will probably hate it, but they did get David Byrne and Eurovisionist Dai Freyr on their last album so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W9aW0Nyc74

Don't forget about RANK THE ALBUMS, deadline end of the day on Sunday, 9/10/23
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80525227

Bruce Springsteen - Born in the U.S.A. results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
BlueCrystalTear (12)
MaxGalactica (14)
FoolFantastic (20)
Sheep007 (22)
Fluttershy_Pony (24)
neonreaper (26)
ZaziGuado (26)
HBJDubs (28)
Seanchan (32)
Johnbobb (44)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: First listen to Born in the U.S.A. done. And it truly was a first listen, as despite it being my choice I can now say I had not heard the full album before. There are 3 or 4 or 5 classic rock radio all-timers on here but the rest of the album was unknown to me.

I came away a bit surprised, honestly. When you think of Springsteen, you think about "AMERICA" or maybe I should say "'MERICA": small town, blue jeans, dirt, sweat, and manual labor, hanging out at a townie bar, shooting pool and drinking cheap beer. The Rust Belt and the Great Plains, despite the fact that Bruce was born in New Jersey. This album obviously has a lot of that, or at least an aura, real or imagined, of that. But there's also more going on; it felt more playful and broad than I expected. I think it was the 2nd song, Cover Me, that really caught me by surprise, especially after the title track.

BlueCrystalTear: First listen down.

This is such a good album - it's where The Boss starts incorporating pop hooks into his blue collar themes, creating an album with universal appeal. While some of the songs stand out more than others, it manages to sound like a cohesive unit while letting each serve its own purpose and still telling a story. I should listen to Born to Run and Nebraska in full again - it's been a long time tbh. But that's for another time.

Fluttershy_Pony: While this is one of the best albums we've covered and I really like it, I've been having a hard time figuring out exactly how much I like it. On the surface, this seems like an album that should be in the running for my favorite. I have a very clear affinity for songs with blunt sadness & pain and Bruce definitely delivers the type of lyrics I'm drawn to. Just the opening lines to the first track perfectly set the type of mood I'm here for:

"Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground"

And I'd also cite "I'm On Fire" for also really hitting the mark:

"Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby, edgy and dull
And cut a six-inch valley through the middle of my skull"

Ah, blunt misery. How I love thee. I'm also naturally drawn towards pop hits of the 80s and this album is as stacked with 80s hits as any Greatest Hits album, featuring several of Bruce's biggest songs and an incredibly catchy style. Even on tracks like "I'm Going Down" which is incredibly repetitive (he says "down" over 80 times), the music is so catchy that I honestly don't even mind the repetition. This feels like it's almost specifically created to be my favorite album of all time! And I do really like it, I might even kinda love it, but somehow it's just not at that absolute highest tier *in spite of everything it has going for it*. And I've been left puzzling over this for days now, trying to work out why I'm not completely in love with it.

My current theory is that in the search for mainstream success, Bruce sanded the edge off all of the songs. "Born in the USA" is a tragic look at the way the country failed Vietnam vets, but the song is so bloody enthusiastic that an alarming number of people miss the pain and tragedy altogether. Lyrical dissonance is a thing, yes, but I prefer my pain and anger to... actually have pain and anger in the delivery? And all the other tracks feel much the same; catchy & good, but lacking in emotional connection. At no point does he succeed in making me feel anything. I wouldn't say the music is inauthentic or hollow, but somehow, the combination of these stories & this musical style results in something that's less than the whole of its parts; A+ lyrics & A+ music blended together into a B+ paste.

Which is still pretty great! There aren't that many albums we've covered that I'd rate higher than this one and I enjoyed myself for almost its entire runtime. There's only one track that I disliked and even it's decent enough that I don't mind it. It's a very solid album and, considering the overwhelming success, it's quite apparent that Bruce made the right decisions. I just personally wish there was more emotion: really show me how angry the Vietnam war and its aftermath makes you, give me the cathartic release that your hometown is as despicable as mine, drive that dull knife into my skull so that I can feel your pain! But... well, catchy music is nice too.

FoolFantastic: I think that's why I generally prefer three of the big Springsteen albums before Born in the USA. His best songs capture the daily traumas and escapism of working class American living, but Born in the USA sounds too bright and poppy to fully sell it to me. Now, to be clear, I'm saying this as someone with 4 Springsteen albums in my all-time top 100 including this one, but this album has the distinct sound of someone going pop, and I think it's the reason Springsteen gets treated like dad rock when his earlier subject matter feels like something that would resonate with the more politically minded generations that followed.

BlueCrystalTear: One thing that's so fantastic about a quality Springsteen album like this is that it feels like a Greatest Hits compilation - almost every song is a banger. This is true with this one, Born to Run, and Nebraska; each is a phenomenal listen. Like Nebraska, this one has this blue collar concept, but the themes tie the story together more tightly - the result is a cohesive album where the songs work as a unit as well as on their own, and the incorporated pop hooks made this a smashing success. He recorded a whopping 80 songs during this time, a list which includes other good stuff like "Pink Cadillac", "None but the Brave" and "County Fair" - all of which would've been welcome here, but he wanted to shoot for about 45 minutes for a reason. The album works largely because it doesn't overstay its welcome.

MaxGalactica: I liked this album a lot more than I was expecting. Born in the U.S.A. is a song that I'd normally dislike for being as repetitive as it is, but it hits the right notes and the accompaniment to the main motif is varied enough that I don't feel the repetition too much (I'm Goin' Down is a song that doesn't do as well at selling the repetition to me). Dancing in the Dark is a classic and I'm on Fire is gorgeous. Really good, well-rounded album.

Seanchan: This is a very good album. In many ways my feelings about it are very similar to Ziggy Stardust, another rock classic that I hadn't heard in full before we covered it; I was surprised by the first listen and then I enjoyed it even more on subsequent listens. I'm still not a big fan of the title track, and I think that can color your expectations of an album that is generally more fun and playful than the initial song lets on.

ZaziGuado: This album didn't do a whole lot for me. Dancing in the Dark is a great song, but nothing else could really reach that height. The songs aren't bad by any stretch, but I just don't get much enjoyment out of listening to them. There is a feeling of nostalgia that radiates from the tracks, but nothing that touches me in the way it probably touches others. Perhaps if I was of the era I would cling to it more. I only did one listen, and I can sense there is room for growth, but I don't think I could ever appreciate this album in the way others do.

HBJDubs: Could never really get into Springsteen but I kinda dig the top half of the rankings here. Extra props to Downbound Train - this was the first time I've heard the song and I really enjoy it.

Sheep007: I held off on ranking this album because I really wasn't expecting to like it, and I was proved... sorta correct? I have a cagy relationship with what I dub "fella rock", and this escaped one of the two traps it tends to fall into, which is being bland and devoid of personality. That said, it launched headfirst into the other trap, which is lyrics that give me the ick. Thankfully, I think I managed to tune out the details by the time I got to the second mention of "little girl" of the album, and it was mostly plain sailing from there! One positive that stood out to me throughout was that the drumwork was very clean, and it's not a bad album in the slightest. There's some interesting themes throughout and I can feel the experiences he's trying to convey, but it just doesn't connect with me. That's okay, but kind of a shame given how much I love a lot of other 80s rock that makes heavy use of synth.

Born in the U.S.A. track ranking

12. Working on the Highway (Track #4)
Score: 30 (Average Rank: 10/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Fluttershy_Pony, neonreaper, BlueCrystalTear, MaxGalactica, ZaziGuado (#12)

BlueCrystalTear: Forgettable just because of everything surrounding it. Really, the only song here that's not a banger, and it could've been left off for something else.

Sheep007: For some reason, this one also won't leave my head post-listen. I didn't even like it that much, but points for being an earworm, for some reason?

11. Darlington County (Track #3)
Score: 34 (Average Rank: 9.6/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Fluttershy_Pony, Johnbobb (#7)
Biggest Detractor(s): FoolFantastic, Sheep007 (#12)

BlueCrystalTear: While still good, this one doesn't do anything that the others don't do better.

10. I'm Goin' Down (Track #9)
Score: 50 (Average Rank: 8.2/12)
Biggest Fan(s): ZaziGuado (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#12)

9. No Surrender (Track #7)
Score: 53 (Average Rank: 7.7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): FoolFantastic, HBJDubs (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): ZaziGuado (#11)

8. My Hometown (Track #12)
Score: 54 (Average Rank: 7.7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#12)

Fluttershy_Pony: I honestly thought this would be one of my favorite songs as I tend to *love* songs complaining about hometowns (see: Shit Towne by Live, a song that I've gone back to so many times over the years), but this... never works for me. It's too downbeat to offer catharsis and doesn't have any really catchy hooks like many of the other songs on the album, Still, it's... fine. It's fine.

7. Bobby Jean (Track #8)
Score: 60 (Average Rank: 7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Fluttershy_Pony, Seanchan (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper (#10)

6. Downbound Train (Track #5)
Score: 64 (Average Rank: 6.8/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): FoolFantastic, BlueCrystalTear, Seanchan (#10)

5. Cover Me (Track #2)
Score: 79 (Average Rank: 5.9/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Fluttershy_Pony, ZaziGuado (#10)

BlueCrystalTear: This dark 80s sound fits the urgency the Boss is feeling; it's pretty great

4. Glory Days (Track #10)
Score: 87 (Average Rank: 4.7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#12)

BlueCrystalTear: The song passes you by, but it's glorious while it lasts. A radio staple for a reason.

3. I'm on Fire (Track #6)
Score: 92 (Average Rank: 4.8/12)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb, HBJDubs (#11)

BlueCrystalTear: Haunting and beautiful. An underrated gem in Springsteen's repertoire.

Johnbobb: I've gone back and few on this song a lot, mostly just trying to decide whether to put it on the top or the bottom. I think, musically, it's the best song on the album. It's subtle and effective. But lyrically, it's one of the things I hate most about that era of music. What should be a song about unrequited desire comes off so much more creepy with what has to be one of the worst opening lines to a lust-based song. Still better than Glory Days at least.

2. Born in the U.S.A. (Track #1)
Score: 106 (Average Rank: 3.9/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Fluttershy_Pony, neonreaper, FoolFantastic (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan, Sheep007 (#8)

Fluttershy_Pony: Perhaps the song that best illustrates how little attention people pay to the lyrics. Still, an all time classic that I find works equally well as something you actually think about or shut your mind off & enjoy the classic rock verses.

BlueCrystalTear: Really noticing the drum work and how much punch that brings here.

Sheep007: The riff from this song is infernally catchy. Unfortunately, chewing polystyrene is more exciting than it, and polishing off a box of the stuff might be less repetitive. It takes talent to come up with that to begin with, though!

1. Dancing in the Dark (Track #11)
Score: 141 (Average Rank: 1.7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): MaxGalactica, Seanchan, ZaziGuado, HBJDubs, Sheep007 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Fluttershy_Pony, neonreaper (#3)

BlueCrystalTear: One of the catchiest songs the man ever recorded. A true classic.

Sheep007: This song is miles above everything else on this album. I've not heard it for years, and it's catchy, lyrically kinda fun, and the synth is great.

Did a first listen yesterday.

Oddly, this didn't particularly grab me. Madonna has had a ton of singles over the years that I think I've generally enjoyed. My touchstone for her is The Immaculate Collection, a greatest hits album from 1990.

I have to ask, is this considered her "best" album?

I feel like if I try to do this ranking, it's just gonna end up with me complaining about every song.

Seanchan posted...

I have to ask, is this considered her "best" album?

I feel like there isn't a clearly defined best album for Madonna, though this is a likely candidate. At least, it took first place on the two "best Madonna albums" lists I cared to check. "True Blue" is her best selling non-compilation album--at least according to the internet. "Like a Virgin" also has more copies sold than Prayer, so that one should also be in the conversation.

And her self-titled debut album also has some of her biggest hits, so while not as successful, there's definitely a solid argument that it's a worthy option. And while no one else would put it up there as best, I'm personally biased towards "Bedtime Stories" because Take a Bow is my favorite Madonna song & the defiant nature of Human Nature is also something I'm rather drawn to and those two songs alone boost the album way up in my rankings.

Personally, I wanted to nominate a Madonna album, but I could never narrow it down beyond these five options. It's like I can click on any Madonna album and find some big hits with something that I love, but I've never been attached enough to a complete album to give it a nom over any other album. Is this the best? Maybe, there are enough rankings putting it at the top that it probably is. But I feel there are a lot of other equally good options that it's not a clear winner.

(This is not exactly a critique of the album. I'd have the same response for just about any Madonna album with a real chance of having been nominated.)

I feel like Ray of Light should also be in that conversation

Montaigne - making it! > Rusted Root - When I Woke > Lawrence - Living Room

1: Like a Prayer
2: Cherish
3: Express Yourself
4: Act of Contrition
5: Till Death Do Us Part
6: Oh Father
7: Love Song
8: Pray for Spanish Eyes
9: Keep It Together
10: Dear Jessie
11: Promise to Try

It feels good to cover a Madonna album and I generally enjoyed this. I'd say I liked my top 6 songs here, which is a pretty good amount. I'm less into the other half of the album, but that's how I seem to feel about her work in general anyway.

FoolFantastic posted...

I feel like Ray of Light should also be in that conversation

I'm admittedly not familiar with that one, but a quick glance shows it has a unique sound compared to her other albums & I liked what I heard from it. Wikipedia also declares it to be her best work, so that's definitely in the conversation for best album & something I should have mentioned.

When I Woke > Living Room > making it!

Send Me On My Way is one of my favorite "songs that everyone knows but doesn't know the name of". Nice album selection here.

1. Like a Prayer The backing vocals are nice, its delightfully camp and upbeat, great song.
2. Till Death Do Us Part
3. Cherish
4. Express Yourself - The start of this sounds like a British auction show. I think either Dickinsons Real Deal, or Bargain Hunt?
5. Dear Jessie The instrumentation throughout feels appropriate for a Dragon Quest town. I havent played Dragon Quest since 2011 but I dont think reminding me of it is a bad thing? The lyrics are saccharine, but not grating, though it doesnt feel like it fits with the songs around it. Still gets a high-ish ranking because it's kinda fun.
6. Love Song
7. Oh Father
8. Spanish Eyes
9. Act Of Contrition
10. Keep it Together
11. Promise to Try This is fine, but it misses the same energy as other tracks on the album.

Not my favourite album, but solid. Zero awful songs, and even the ones I liked less were still pleasant, but nothing stood out to me. I think I prefer most other work by her that I've heard.

Like a Prayer
Express Yourself
Till Death Do Us Part
Cherish
Spanish Eyes
Keep It Together
Dear Jessie
Oh Father
Act of Contrition
Promise to Try
Love Song

I should probably note, I invited Sheep007 to nominate an album for next week's poll; Sheep has not joined the cycle yet but has expressed interest in potentially doing so, so I figured this was a fair solution

Was there ever a playlist of every #1 ranked song from each album? I think I asked this before, but I can't remember if the answer was "that's a good idea, we should do that" or "that's a waste of time, no one will bother with that".

I think I made that playlist and then forgot about it but should update it.

I was also wanting to do a tourney with the first 128 #1s but don't wanna take up time people should be using for Rank the Albums...

I think after Rank the Albums would be a good time for the tourney. I hadnt forgotten about that idea!

Like a Prayer
Express Yourself
Love Song
Till Death Do Us Part
Dear Jessie
Keep It Together
Oh Father
Act of Contrition
Cherish
Promise to Try
Spanish Eyes

When I Woke > making it! > Living Room

Rusted Root > Lawrence > Montaigne

Obviously since that's the order I nominated in

1. Like a Prayer
2. Express Yourself
3. Cherish
4. Till Death Do Us Part
5. Love Song
6. Keep It Together
7. Dear Jessie
8. Spanish Eyes
9. Act of Contrition
10. Promise to Try
11. Oh Father

I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with this album, having expected to enjoy a Madonna album. But outside of the singles (Like a Prayer, Express Yourself, Cherish), I wasn't really digging this. Nothing terrible (though I found my bottom 2 to be boring) but at the same time nothing new (to me) that grabbed me. Random thing, I was taken aback that Love Song doesn't mention "feat. Prince" (at least on Spotify), because that's a Prince ass-sounding Prince song.

1. Like a Prayer
2. Dear Jessie
3. Oh Father
4. Till Death Do Us Part
5. Cherish
6. Express Yourself
7. Promise to Try
8. Keep It Together
9. Pray for Spanish Eyes
10. Act of Contrition
11. Love Song

Definitely would've preferred either of the other two albums nommed for this week. While this album wasn't bad, it didn't particularly interest me, aside from the eponymous track. The Prince song was particularly not good unfortunately. Dear Jessie and Oh Father were nice surprises though with their string parts.

Sorry I haven't posted at all this week; I've been mentally occupied to the point where I only finished my first listen tonight. It'll take me another few days to add two more and a ranking, so no need to worry about including mine in the standings.

Hopefully I'll eventually resume regularly participating - I really have enjoyed and appreciated Rank the Tracks and all the music I've found as a result, so thank you all - our host especially. In the meantime, I'd like to ask to be removed from the user cycle. For similar reasons, I won't be voting for Johnbobb's week.

I also didn't want to comment on my choice of Madonna album because I didn't feel informed enough. I guess now I'll say that Like a Prayer felt like the closest thing to a compromise pick from Madonna's discography, between sales, lasting popularity, acclaim, and the evolution of her direction over time.

Like a Prayer
Express Yourself
Cherish
Oh Father
Spanish Eyes
Dear Jessie
Till Death Do Us Part
Keep It Together
Promise to Try
Love Song
Act of Contrition

"Like a Prayer" is an all-timer, and the next five tracks fall just short of greatness. I feel there is a cohesiveness here that was rare in pop albums of the time, but over the last decade, we've seen some genuine mainstream pop masterpieces in album form. Madonna is definitely a better singles artist than an album artist. Still, none of the albums from her first decade suffer from the typical pop issue of filler; even if I do not care for "Love Song," it is still distinct.

I may try to listen to this one today and put together a ranking.

This week has been brutal on me.

Like A Prayer
Cherish
Express Yourself
Keep It Together
Pray For Spanish Eyes
Till Death Do Us Part
Promise To Try
Oh Father
Dear Jessie
Act Of Contrition
Love Song

The singles are all top tier, although I prefer the Immaculate Collection versions of Like A Prayer and Express Yourself. The rest is fairly decent other than the bottom two.

1. Like a Prayer
2. Cherish
3. Express Yourself
4. Oh Father
5. Till Death Do Us Part
6. Spanish Eyes
7. Promise to Try
8. Act of Contrition
9. Keep It Together
10. Dear Jessie
11. Love Song

There's a clear gap between my second and third-ranked songs, and another between 10th and 11th. Still, I'm unsurprisingly more-or-less fond of this album almost all the way through.