Current Events > MGS4 was really a letdown looking back

(+) Yeah! (+)

1-3 are undeniable classics such a tragedy 4 was such a mess and 5 was unfinished. Coulda been the GOAT franchise

I dont have the link to it but theres a theory that MGS4 was Kojima trolling the fandom.

Stop asking me who the Patriots are! Okay, okay, theyre your support staff from MGS3. Happy?

It happens when youve run your creative course but management demands you keep pumping it out.

mgs4 is like a bad fanfic with the budget of a hollywood movie. it sucks outside of the first act too

nah.

i played it for the first time in 2020, during lockdown and it was fuckin legit.

i get it wasn't what fans wanted at the time, maybe? but i thought it was amazing.

not as good as 1, 2, or 3, I'll agree, but it's still really awesome. It's about as good as 5, imo.

4 was good, had some quality boss fights, unlike 5.

I know it's a Kojima game, but it felt like it had to justify and explain pretty much every element in the series, in the longest, most boring way.

it even took a moment to have Snake talk to Johnny about his diarrhea.

Best game in the series.

The only complaint I have with it is that the backstory of the B&B corps is just copy-pasted, and they don't contribute anything to the overall plot. No personalities, no humanity, etc. Kinda makes them the most forgettable set of bosses, even though their boss fights are well-designed and their visual designs are cool.

It's the title where I started to lose interest in the series.

it has my favorite boss fight in video game history. it's not bad at all.

I felt like the story went bad on purpose. It was

1- Kojima complaining about how dumb war games had become
2- how tired he was of MGS
3- Warning about how terrible the media was becoming

after act 2 the game falls apart. Act 3 is horrible. Act 4 only redeeming quality is nostalgia and that boss fight. Act 5 is basically just the fight with the final boss and the microwave hallway

Spiderman23J posted...

after act 2 the game falls apart

After Act 2 is when it pops off, what are you talking about?

I dont like this revisionist narrative over the last few years that MGS4 wasnt a good game.

It had its flaws like any other game, but it was released to universal acclaim from critics and consumers alike. Only recently have I noticed people starting to turn on it.

Im not saying you cant personally dislike it for whatever reason, but it was a good game damnit!

Gobstoppers12 posted...

After Act 2 is when it pops off, what are you talking about?

act 3 is easily the worst part of the game. Horrible tracking section and then a on rails sequence.

I didn't like that so much of the cooler supernatural stuff was explained away with nanomachines.

gamer167 posted...

I dont like this revisionist narrative over the last few years that MGS4 wasnt a good game.

It had its flaws like any other game, but it was released to universal acclaim from critics and consumers alike. Only recently have I noticed people starting to turn on it.

Im not saying you cant personally dislike it for whatever reason, but it was a good game damnit!

Agreed with this, people praised it when it came out. Also really enjoyed the game. I remember getting all emblems and then when the trophy patch came out, I did it all over again. Basically platinumd/100% it twice.

Every game in the MGS series was intended to be the final game. I dont think any are disappointing although I didnt finish MGSV

MGS4 has that crazy finale, how can you think thats disappointing :(

It was supposed to be the last game in the series (or so Kojima thought) so I guess he just let loose with it and put in all sorts of crazy stuff he's got mind. Though the bad thing about that is, some of the things are really cringe...

jblrulez posted...

Agreed with this, people praised it when it came out. Also really enjoyed the game. I remember getting all emblems and then when the trophy patch came out, I did it all over again. Basically platinumd/100% it twice.

A lot of people complained when it came out.

Common complaints were that it had too many cutscenes, story was all over the place, features like teaming up with different sides on the battfield was poorly implemented, bosses lacked character, nanomachines explaining everything, and so on.

It's all those complaints that were thought to be the reason why MGSV had hardly any cutscenes and so much less story to it compared to previous games. If anything, reception has mostly gotten better over the years. Especially after MGSV

I've always loved mgs4 but some of those complaints are warranted

Spiderman23J posted...

act 3 is easily the worst part of the game. Horrible tracking section and then a on rails sequence.

It wasn't that bad. Following the guy wasn't the best part of the game, but basically once you meet up with Eva, the entire rest of the game is top-tier. The on-rails part was fun, imo.

4 was great. 5 on the other hand.... that was a disaster.

itachi15243 posted...

A lot of people complained when it came out.

Common complaints were that it had too many cutscenes, story was all over the place, features like teaming up with different sides on the battfield was poorly implemented, bosses lacked character, nanomachines explaining everything, and so on.

It's all those complaints that were thought to be the reason why MGSV had hardly any cutscenes and so much less story to it compared to previous games. If anything, reception has mostly gotten better over the years. Especially after MGSV

I've always loved mgs4 but some of those complaints are warranted

Yeah it reviewed really well, but the fan backlash was absolutely going on back then just like it is now. The "naomachines son" meme line from Revengeance is pretty much entirely based on one of the most common complaints from the time. I remember being pretty underwhelmed personally.

https://youtu.be/93-_r0w7ykI

looking back? lol. mgs4 was a letdown since it was released.
literally smoking cutscenes. literally everything cutscenes. the definition of "show, don't tell" for video games. kojima obviously wanted to make a movie more than a game with 4.

even though 5 was unfinished, it was literally a thousand times more an actual video game than whatever the hell 4 is supposed to be.

2nd best game in the series.

Thermador446 posted...

4 was good, had some quality boss fights, unlike 5.

Drebin told u those B&B unit backstories after dey got defeeted.

Rex Ray fight is good tho

Dark_Arbron posted...

I dont have the link to it but theres a theory that MGS4 was Kojima trolling the fandom.

Stop asking me who the Patriots are! Okay, okay, theyre your support staff from MGS3. Happy?

It happens when youve run your creative course but management demands you keep pumping it out.

That sounds more like an excuse. No one wanted to know most of the things he explained. Just the plot point that he opened up. He ended two with Snake and Hal looking for the Patriots then having a twist that put them back at ground zero. You have to answer that question.

Questions no one wanted answer to. How did so and so get their powers. We saw that people in this world just can have powers . That was part of the world. People were not questioning that. And heck if he HAD to answer it. Why would the answer to everything be nano tech.

MGS4 felt more like an interactive movie than a game imo.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It wasn't that bad.

yes it was

ultimate_reaver posted...

yes it was

nah

I still prefer 4 than V

gamer167 posted...

dont like this revisionist narrative over the last few years that MGS4 wasnt a good game.

The game has been memed on about being more cutscene than game for many years now. It was the most divisive title before V came along

yall wrong 4 was good

Spiderman23J posted...

5 was unfinished

Did anyone remember that Hackjima said V is not 5 and actually serve as a "bridge" to 5?

Strong disagree. The game completely answered all mysteries from the franchise. The pure satisfaction of Snake and Ocelot injecting each other leading into the final boss battle is the pinnacle of gaming. Moments like that which the MGS series continously delivered are the reason it is held in such high regard. If your just playing through now you're probably not familiar with "kept you waiting, huh". You don't have to wait now just read what other fucks said on the internet.

No such thing as a bad MGS game. Best series of all time and Hideo Kojima is a god amongst men

cjsdowg posted...

That sounds more like an excuse. No one wanted to know most of the things he explained. Just the plot point that he opened up. He ended two with Snake and Hal looking for the Patriots then having a twist that put them back at ground zero. You have to answer that question.

Questions no one wanted answer to. How did so and so get their powers. We saw that people in this world just can have powers . That was part of the world. People were not questioning that. And heck if he HAD to answer it. Why would the answer to everything be nano tech.

It wasn't my theory, just calling attention to it. I believe it's the one outlined in post #24, though I haven't actually watched the full video.

MGS3 is my favorite in-game story of all time. I didn't even mind the /hours/ of codec calls that were optional, the writing and banter was fantastic. Paramedic was bae.

Ive never played a mgs game

isnt there a remaster or something coming out soon?

it's not a remaster but a collection of the first two Metal Gears and three Metal Gear Solids.

it's also available on the PS3 & 360.

MICHALECOLE posted...

Ive never played a mgs game

isnt there a remaster or something coming out soon?

One thing is certain. Don't do what TC did and actually play them.

MICHALECOLE posted...

Ive never played a mgs game

isnt there a remaster or something coming out soon?

Just a release of a collection that has skipped around multiple consoles in various iterations. This time we'll be seeing MGS3 on PC for the first time ever, which has most people excited (if it's a good port.)

Allegedly we're seeing MGS4 in Vol 2? But I doubt it. It's always been said that game is baked into the Ps3/Cell Processor like you wouldn't believe. Recompiling the code for a game that massive would be close to impossible.

There's the remaster collection, and then Metal Gear Solid Delta which is a remake of 3 that's currently in development.

You should check out this three and a half hour long video essay called Metal Gear Solid 4 Was A Mistake. It goes into the development of the game, it recaps the plot and breaks down the positives and the negatives as the video goes along, and it discusses the shortcomings of Kojima as a writer as well as a pure, untethered creative:

https://youtu.be/93-_r0w7ykI

It's a great video to get a handle on how the game was created and produced, how and why things changed along the way (along with some very reasonable speculation on the video maker's part) and to consider the merits and downfalls of a messy whole.

This is half-jokingly, because three and a half hours is fucking long and I know people don't have time for that. But this video is absolutely incredible. It's effortlessly funny, it's got a lot of genuine insight into the game, it offers a fair criticism of the game and it's equally well-researched and well-presented. If you can make the time for this video, give it a try. It's critical without being caustic, and it's fair without being overly gushy or over-exaggerated; it is, hands down, one of the most grounded MGS/Kojima critiques I've ever seen.

Partway through, the dude sets the Guns of the Patriots cutscene to Light Up the Night by the Protomen, and it fucking owns so hard.

C-zom posted...

Just a release of a collection that has skipped around multiple consoles in various iterations.

That being said, this will be the first non-Playstation release of Metal Gear Solid 1 since 1999's obscure PC port. The GameCube got a remake, but the PS1 original has only existed on the original PS1 disc and as a PS1 Classic - not even the Metal Gear Solid Legacy Collection, which had every mainline Metal Gear game on a single Blu-Ray, had Metal Gear Solid. It had a download code for the PS1 version.

Like when Konami made a Metal Gear Solid HD collection for 7th Gen consoles, they didn't port the GameCube remake or add a PS1 port. They added Peace Walker instead. This will be the first time - at least, since that obscure PC port - that the original MGS will be playable on a non-Playstation platform.

^
Absolutely watching that tomorrow.

I liked MGS 4, only part I didn't like was the start of Act 3, it got better after you meet Big Mama