Current Events > Is Bethesda an overrated developer?

(+) Yeah! (+)

'Not at all'

Bethesda is good at lore building, beautiful set pieces and sometimes character and armor designs. Whomever over at Bethesda that came up with the Piper character should have gotten an extra paycheck. One of the few npcs who had good stories about their "life" before meeting your character.

As I've alluded to in another topic, Starfield has its hooks in me because of a certain lost aviator and how slick it was to add her in the narrative. I'd kiss Bethesda's @%# more if they made their games a bit smaller in install size though.

PraetorXyn posted...

Because difficulty options in most games are shitty number tweaks where on Easy the enemies are stupid marshmallows and on Hard theyre stupid tanks that hit harder and have a lot more health, meaning they arent anymore difficult at all, only more tedious.

FromSoft games are pretty intricately balanced, so they wouldnt be satisfied with number tweaks and would have to do a bunch of extra work to accommodate a vocal minority who probably arent going to play their games anyway.

Doesn't make any sense whatsoever

The "intended experience" would be identical on normal.

And mods already created the experiences you claim are impossible. From just won't endorse or standardize them.

They do it solely for reason you just unintentionally explained. The toxic fanbase does not want "The vocal minority who aren't going to play these games anyway!" in their treehouse.

Same thing CRPG gatekeepers would have said in 1993 to games intrdoucing maps.

It's just gatekeeping toxicity.

Bethesda makes games that focus on being fun. And that rubs toxic people the wrong way.

IT's Bethesda who put Pronoun options into Starfield. Not From Soft. They want you to play their games.

The internet gamers are so out of their minds about "bugs" it's actually insane.

Biggest group of whiners I've ever seen.

SwayM posted...

The internet gamers are so out of their minds about "bugs" it's actually insane.

Biggest group of whiners I've ever seen.

how dare people ask that a full priced game by a large developer have any sort of QA performed whatsoever

Yes.
I enjoy their games but they are the poster children of "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle".
They used to make RPGs but with each new release they regress more and more in that aspect.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

how dare people ask that a full priced game by a large developer have any sort of QA performed whatsoever

How dare millions of people just go about their lives and enjoy their games, they don't notice the "bugs" because they're so minor and innocuous and in no way do they impede anyone's enjoyment of the actual game.

Stop being so fucking dramatic. They give you a piece of entertainment that has potentially hundreds and hundreds of hours of content and if it's not "perfect" to you, then don't play it.

SwayM posted...

How dare millions of people just go about their lives and enjoy their games, they don't notice the "bugs" because they're so minor and innocuous and in no way do they impede anyone's enjoyment of the actual game.

Stop being so fucking dramatic. They give you a piece of entertainment that has potentially hundreds and hundreds of hours of content and if it's not "perfect" to you, then don't play it.

Minor bugs like walking on any physics object and being shot to the moon

Vyrulisse posted...

Yes.
I enjoy their games but they are the poster children of "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle".
They used to make RPGs but with each new release they regress more and more in that aspect.

correct, but that's the go to thing people say about their games. they say it, and they're right. so to me they are properly rated when it comes to people talking about their games. they still score high, but game scores are high in general.

People complaining about bethesda being overrated because of their bugs despite everyone and their dog pointing out they release buggy games really struggle to understand that sometimes a game can just be fun despite being buggy.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Minor bugs like walking on any physics object and being shot to the moon

Never heard of this.

Even if this did happen to me, after 50 hours of gameplay. I would laugh, reload the game, and go about my life. As any well-adjusted person would.

I think they're appropriately rated. They took a well-deserved drubbing over Fallout '76, and while I don't know how Starfield performs firsthand, feedback seems to be genuinely positive in the QA department, so hopefully they finally learned some hard lessons.

SwayM posted...

How dare millions of people just go about their lives and enjoy their games, they don't notice the "bugs" because they're so minor and innocuous and in no way do they impede anyone's enjoyment of the actual game.

Stop being so fucking dramatic. They give you a piece of entertainment that has potentially hundreds and hundreds of hours of content and if it's not "perfect" to you, then don't play it.

Bro you're barking up the wrong tree here. Bethesda games are riddled with quest-breaking bugs to the point where every quest-related uesp wiki page has several listed, dozens of which have directly impeded my personal enjoyment of their games, Skyrim in particular. If you're going to be one of those aggressive apologists operating under the mentality of 'I didn't get those bugs personally therefore they don't exist,' then you're not simply part of the problem, you're the root of it; because while I don't necessarily blame Bethesda for not being able to iron everything out, I most certainly blame diehard fanboys / contrarians for hounding bug reporters with this behavior.

masterpug53 posted...

Bro you're barking up the wrong tree here. Bethesda games are riddled with quest-breaking bugs to the point where every quest-related uesp wiki page has several listed, dozens of which have directly impeded my personal enjoyment of their games, Skyrim in particular. If you're going to be one of those aggressive apologists operating under the mentality of 'I didn't get those bugs personally therefore they don't exist,' then you're not simply part of the problem, you're the root of it; because while I don't necessarily blame Bethesda for not being able to iron everything out, I most certainly blame diehard fanboys / contrarians for hounding bug reporters with this behavior.

Nah. Y'all whiners have overwritten the conversation about Bethesda games as if they're akin to something like Big Rigs.

There needs to be a healthy dose of reality. As someone who's put hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours into Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and now Starfied. I've never once encountered a bug that was even memorable enough to hamper my enjoyment. I'm not denying there are bugs. I'm saying y'all acting like you can't enjoy the games because of it are being too fucking dramatic for your own good.

Honestly I think the shift towards Radiant quests up the arse is worse than the bugs.

With annoying exceptions like Eden Prime glitching in Fallout 3. NPCs clipping through walls or falling off a cliff isn't a deal breaker

"Another settlement needs your help" is

Heck Fallout New Vegas is the most buggy and broken Fallout game of the lot and that's the one Bethesda didn't even make.

Not in my opinion. Easily one of my favorites.

SwayM posted...

Nah. Y'all whiners have overwritten the conversation about Bethesda games as if they're akin to something like Big Rigs.

There needs to be a healthy dose of reality. As someone who's put hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours into Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and now Starfied. I've never once encountered a bug that was even memorable enough to hamper my enjoyment. I'm not denying there are bugs. I'm saying y'all acting like you can't enjoy the games because of it are being too fucking dramatic for your own good.

Well I've put thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours into Elder Scrolls and Fallout, so your authority on the matter is a piss in the ocean compared to mine.

masterpug53 posted...

Well I've put thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours into Elder Scrolls and Fallout, so your authority on the matter is a piss in the ocean compared to mine.

Just like when people try to send food back after cleaning their plate.

"this game is so buggy, Bethesda sucks"

*has 1000 hours clocked on Skyrim*

SwayM posted...

Just like when people try to send food back after cleaning their plate.

This notion that the more time you invest in something, the less right you have to acknowledge its flaws despite your love for it is never remotely as good a point as people think it is. You really do have some of the most aggressively bad takes on this board.

masterpug53 posted...

This notion that the more time you invest in something, the less right you have to acknowledge its flaws despite your love for it is never remotely as good a point as people think it is. You really do have some of the most aggressively bad takes on this board.

I mean, I've got thousands of hours logged on Bethesda games and will happily say they're pretty buggy games. I just don't care because they don't ruin my experience and the games are fun despite that.

At the end of the day, a game can only be judged by how much enjoyment you get out of it, and most people rate (most) Bethesda games pretty highly because they're still enjoyable.

masterpug53 posted...

This notion that the more time you invest in something, the less right you have to acknowledge its flaws despite your love for it is never remotely as good a point as people think it is. You really do have some of the most aggressively bad takes on this board.

The more you love something, at least something like a game, the more you're going to criticize it. Surprised more people don't understand this. I don't consider this the same as a thing being over or underrated, though. You can have heavy criticism, but if you play a thing for 1,000 hours, you either hold it highly or hate yourself.

(and rating in this context is a collective statistic and all that)

UnfairRepresent posted...

Honestly I think the shift towards Radiant quests up the arse is worse than the bugs.

With annoying exceptions like Eden Prime glitching in Fallout 3. NPCs clipping through walls or falling off a cliff isn't a deal breaker

"Another settlement needs your help" is

Heck Fallout New Vegas is the most buggy and broken Fallout game of the lot and that's the one Bethesda didn't even make.

Yes, but New Vegas is buggy because Bethesda wouldnt let Obsidian have more than 18 months to make it so they didnt get time to polish it. Its also objectively the best 3D Fallout game in terms of writing and roleplaying, so real Fallout fans are willing to overlook a lot.

masterpug53 posted...

This notion that the more time you invest in something, the less right you have to acknowledge its flaws despite your love for it is never remotely as good a point as people think it is. You really do have some of the most aggressively bad takes on this board.

The less right?

No, the less weight your hyperbolic statements have.

"You spent thousands of hours into these games, I'm sorry if I don't take your whining at face value."

Will never be a bad take. Nice try though.

SwayM posted...

Nah. Y'all whiners

nah

I think they suck ass but calling them overrated just seems like some way to objectivize that you think they suck ass. I'm not gonna rain on other people's parade

codey posted...

"this game is so buggy, Bethesda sucks"

*has 1000 hours clocked on Skyrim*

Stockholm syndrome?

Not really. People shit on Bethesda for their buggy releases all the time. People put up with it because of how great the mod support is for their games. But no one is saying that Bethesda can do no wrong or anything like how some other developers get praised

PraetorXyn posted...

Yes, but New Vegas is buggy because Bethesda wouldnt let Obsidian have more than 18 months to make it so they didnt get time to polish it. Its also objectively the best 3D Fallout game in terms of writing and roleplaying, so real Fallout fans are willing to overlook a lot.

*sigh*

codey posted...

I mean, I've got thousands of hours logged on Bethesda games and will happily say they're pretty buggy games. I just don't care because they don't ruin my experience and the games are fun despite that.

At the end of the day, a game can only be judged by how much enjoyment you get out of it, and most people rate (most) Bethesda games pretty highly because they're still enjoyable.

Sorry dude, but this doesn't make up for you posting the intellectual equivalent of 'yet you participate in society, curious!' My love for Skyrim and the thousands of hours I continue to log on it does not absolve it from being called out on its flaws, especially when said flaws persist to this day, breaking quests and popping the bubble on my much-valued immersion and enjoyment. Conversely, I am a frequent defender of what I feel Skyrim does right, often going to against the grain in doing so, particularly in my defense of the 'streamlined' leveling system.

You are right, the good does still outweigh the bad in Skyrim to the point where I still enjoy it overall, but you're also implying that I must remain silent on the bad because I've reached a certain time investment on the game. Am I no longer allowed to praise it either? If you want my opinion on a game where the bad clearly outweighs the good but I recognized it within the first few hours of play, then I can't give it, because I skipped the obvious trainwreck that was Fallout '76. On the other hand, Fallout 3 is an instance where the bad outweighs the good that I do have personal experience with, because it didn't really sink in for me just how broken an experience it was until I'd invested a few hundred hours into it; however, by your logic I guess I'm barred from critiquing that one as well. An instance of a game that I gave up on after 5 hours because the bad was clearly outweighing the good would be Final Fantasy XIII, yet somehow I don't think anyone will be beating a path to my door to hear my in-depth critique on why the entire game is trash based on the first 5 hours.

SwayM posted...

"You spent thousands of hours into these games, I'm sorry if I don't take your whining at face value."

That's... an incredibly stupid take, for anything. Like if anyone's going to know the flaws of a subject, it's going to be someone who's been involved with it for a long time. You're literally just mad about disposition, rather than criticism.

masterpug53 posted...

Sorry dude, but this doesn't make up for you posting the intellectual equivalent of 'yet you participate in society, curious!' My love for Skyrim and the thousands of hours I continue to log on it does not absolve it from being called out on its flaws, especially when said flaws persist to this day, breaking quests and popping the bubble on my much-valued immersion and enjoyment. Conversely, I am a frequent defender of what I feel Skyrim does right, often going to against the grain in doing so, particularly in my defense of the 'streamlined' leveling system.

You are right, the good does still outweigh the bad in Skyrim to the point where I still enjoy it overall, but you're also implying that I must remain silent on the bad because I've reached a certain time investment on the game. Am I no longer allowed to praise it either? If you want my opinion on a game where the bad clearly outweighs the good, then I can't give it, because I skipped the obvious trainwreck that was Fallout '76. On the other hand, Fallout 3 is an instance where the bad outweighs the good that I do have personal experience with, because it didn't really sink in for me just how broken an experience it was until I'd invested a few hundred hours into it; however, by your logic I guess I'm barred from critiquing that one as well.

Lol I think you're talking to the wrong guy considering you're quoting me stating that I'll happily call the games out for being buggy

codey posted...

Lol I think you're talking to the wrong guy considering you're quoting me stating that I'll happily call the games out for being buggy

codey posted...

"this game is so buggy, Bethesda sucks"

*has 1000 hours clocked on Skyrim*

There, hopefully that clears up your confusion.

Guide posted...

That's... an incredibly stupid take, for anything. Like if anyone's going to know the flaws of a subject, it's going to be someone who's been involved with it for a long time. You're literally just mad about disposition, rather than criticism.

Knowing its flaws and putting thousands of hours into it anyway

No Im trying to get yall to see how you can complain until youre blue in the face. Yet the mere fact you put thousands of hours into these games is all the proof how good they are that I need to bring you back down to reality.

masterpug53 posted...

There, hopefully that clears up your confusion.

I wasn't even posting that in response to you lol, this entire page of responses wasn't even loaded on my phone when I wrote that

That point stands though, and it doesn't apply to you, it's just a general mocking of all the people that say Bethesda sucks (not you obviously) and sit there dumping hours and hours of their time into their games.

codey posted...

I wasn't even posting that in response to you lol, this entire page of responses wasn't even loaded on my phone when I wrote that

That point stands though, and it doesn't apply to you, it's just a general mocking of all the people that say Bethesda sucks (not you obviously) and sit there dumping hours and hours of their time into their games.

Fair enough, then. I guess it was simply a case of misfortune that you made that post directly on the heels of the other guy who was making the same observation, with the distinction being that he was overtly asinine and combative about it.

masterpug53 posted...

Fair enough, then. I guess it was simply a case of misfortune that you made that post directly on the heels of the other guy who was making the same observation, with the distinction being that he was overtly asinine and combative about it.

Yeah I honestly don't care if someone thinks they suck or not, my sticking point is calling them overrated. More than half the people in this topic have voted that Bethesda is overrated and it's like they've lost all sense of what the word even means.

codey posted...

I don't see how you can honestly believe they're overrated when any topic about them is going to be filled with people making fun of their bugs

As for why they get a "pass" for buggy games, it's mostly because the games are still fun despite them. When they're not, like in the case of Fallout 76, they get shit on.

This.

codey posted...

Yeah I honestly don't care if someone thinks they suck or not, my sticking point is calling them overrated. More than half the people in this topic have voted that Bethesda is overrated and it's like they've lost all sense of what the word even means.

Yeah I don't get why so many people are voting that they're overrated. Bethesda gets shit on constantly. People enjoy their games despite the jank, but they aren't praised as much as other devs are

The only thing overrated about Bethesda games is the idea that the community and modders are the only reason the games are good. I would guess a lot of us maybe even half exclusively played and fell in love with our first Bethesda game on a console where we had no mod support at all. I personally own every Fallout/ES game on PC and the only one I messed with mods on is Fallout 4 and just a couple minor tweaks none of the really good stuff I know is out there. I just enjoy the base experience enough that I don't care to mess with anything.

NO2_Fiend posted...

The only thing overrated about Bethesda games is the idea that the community and modders are the only reason the games are good. I would guess a lot of us maybe even half exclusively played and fell in love with our first Bethesda game on a console where we had no mod support at all. I personally own every Fallout/ES game on PC and the only one I messed with mods on is Fallout 4 and just a couple minor tweaks none of the really good stuff I know is out there. I just enjoy the base experience enough that I don't care to mess with anything.

of course youd say that when you admit you havent experienced the other side of it. Ignorance is bliss.

SwayM posted...

How dare millions of people just go about their lives and enjoy their games, they don't notice the "bugs" because they're so minor and innocuous and in no way do they impede anyone's enjoyment of the actual game.

I've had gamebreaking bugs on both Fallout 3 and Skyrim, the one in Fallout 3 being well known yet Bethesda just couldn't be arsed to fix it even years later. It was when you meet the radio host Three Dog during the main quest. IIRC if you exit the building through the back door, you can't enter again. Meaning you couldn't hand in the quest Three Dog gave you and you'd be screwed out of the main questline. It's something that could easily be fixed and they just never gave a fuck.

Granted both were the famously awful performing PS3 ports, but it for sure impeded my enjoyment of those games.

More egregious than the bugs is just how... aggressively Bethesda leans into them and their lack of QA.

It's one thing for Skyrim to launch with a shitload of bugs. It's another thing for Skyrim to get an updated re-release every year or two, across three different console generations, and yet still have a ton of the exact same bugs that were present on day 1 present in an updated version released almost a decade later. Bugs that were cleaned up by community mods within months of the very first launch.

And then to have the goddamn nerve to try to monetize those same mods that are fixing your game for you. Twice.

(for what its worth, I'm fine with modders themselves getting paid for their work. I am not ok with Bethesda taking a cut after having some unpaid non-affiliate volunteer to fix their game for them).

i liked Oblivion a lot but I haven't liked any of their games aside from that

DarkBuster22904 posted...

More egregious than the bugs is just how... aggressively Bethesda leans into them and their lack of QA.

It's one thing for Skyrim to launch with a shitload of bugs. It's another thing for Skyrim to get an updated re-release every year or two, across three different console generations, and yet still have a ton of the exact same bugs that were present on day 1 present in an updated version released almost a decade later. Bugs that were cleaned up by community mods within months of the very first launch.

Their QA standards really started slipping with Skyrim onward. With Oblivion and Fallout 3 I always saw the patches as welcome additions: 'cool, they finally fixed that one major quest from being broken because you made the mistake of wandering into a cave in a game that prioritizes exploration!' Sucks that it happened in the first place, but still, nice to have it fixed without further complications. Skyrim's official patches were the first to become notorious for causing almost as many new problems as the ones they fixed.

And the biggest kick in the ass was that they didn't seem to learn even basic QA lessons from earlier games. That aforementioned bug that broke the Fighter's Guild questline in Oblivion? Guess what? Upon initial release, you would break the Riften thane quest in Skyrim by - you guessed it - having the nerve to explore the wrong cave before the appointed time. And that very cave is even on the road you take to get to the city in the first place!

PraetorXyn posted...

of course youd say that when you admit you havent experienced the other side of it. Ignorance is bliss.

Other side of what? Are you trying to imply I was talking shit about mods? I said the game is great on its own not that mods aren't equally great. They just aren't necessary as those who play exclusively on console will tell you since up until FO4 (maybe Skyrim for Xbox cant remember) we had no mods.

Reading comprehension, get some lol.

NO2_Fiend posted...

Other side of what? Are you trying to imply I was talking shit about mods? I said the game is great on its own not that mods aren't equally great. They just aren't necessary as those who play exclusively on console will tell you since up until FO4 (maybe Skyrim for Xbox cant remember) we had no mods.

Reading comprehension, get some lol.

No. Im saying you only think vanilla is great because you have no basis for comparison since you havent played heavily modded. Its an entirely different game.

I wish we got ES games that were more roleplay-ey. I'm more of a fantasy guy than a Fallout guy and besides picking and choosing what quest to do and how you build your character, there's basically no actual roleplaying in ES games. And its not like the combat is all that gratifying either.

Definition of overrated.

PraetorXyn posted...

No. Im saying you only think vanilla is great because you have no basis for comparison since you havent played heavily modded. Its an entirely different game.

...he's played other games before you know.

PraetorXyn posted...

No. Im saying you only think vanilla is great because you have no basis for comparison since you havent played heavily modded. Its an entirely different game.

Sure but people act like Bethesda games are worthless without mods. If anything the majority of people who play these games don't use them and they're still really popular.

I'm not really sure why people treat mods like a criticism. Any game that opened itself to mods as much as Bethesda games do would also drastically improve.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Sure but people act like Bethesda games are worthless without mods. If anything the majority of people who play these games don't use them and they're still really popular.

I'm not really sure why people treat mods like a criticism. Any game that opened itself to mods as much as Bethesda games do would also drastically improve.

I actually agree with this. Mods that only big quest bugs or the like but keep Skyrim/Fallout/Starfield the same basically means the actual games as they are are already decent for those people and they just want to play the game without crashing. The really big mods like new world spaces or entire new questlines and perk overhauls take far more time and dedication to make than any of thee games would merit if the base game itself wasn't good enough to gather those mod makers as an audience first.