Current Events > Israel bombs hospital, 500+ dead.

(+) Yeah! (+)

hockeybub89 posted...

Cool. Everyone here already knows Hamas is bad. Sucks that Israel isn't any better than them.

"Hamas beheads babies"
"ok show me proof"
*shows proof*
"yeah well Israel still sucks lol"

Strider102 posted...

Yep that's why I'm out. Even if you showed them proof they'd just deny it.

Yup, I'm done now too.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Theres a reason why this conflict continues to go around in circles. Hamas greatest weapon right now is misinformation and social media. These toxic conversations are exactly what they want.

And Israel doesn't use misinformation?

TheNextLink posted...

Are we at that "both sides" stage, now?

Only if you're strangely pro-genocide

KTG2 posted...

Well yeah, our minds actually work and choose to see an ethnic cleansing in progress and an Israeli regime that lies *constantly*

You guzzle propaganda at an alarming rate

Of course, HAMAS surrendering is not an option, is it?

Yo_D_oY posted...

"Hamas beheads babies"
"ok show me proof"
*shows proof*
"yeah well Israel still sucks lol"

Yup, I'm done now too.

bye bye now!
dont let the truth hit you on the way out.

Tom_Joad posted...

Of course, HAMAS surrendering is not an option, is it?

it wont stop israels horrible treatment of the palestine people. and if they are not willing to see palestines as equal huamn beings, of course there will be other terrorist groups that will end up replacing HAMAS.

The root of the problem must be resolved or else it will return again and again.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Theres a reason why this conflict continues to go around in circles. Hamas greatest weapon right now is misinformation and social media. These toxic conversations are exactly what they want.

I mean it goes the other way too.

Like the guy that asked to show evidence of Israel starting conflict and killing people is ridiculous.

You can easily find that evidence in the West Bank. That shit has been posted almost daily on reddit for like well over a year now.

To wit
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/palestinians-killed-west-bank-israel/

Shadow_Don posted...

I mean it goes the other way too.

Like the guy that asked to show evidence of Israel starting conflict and killing people is ridiculous.

You can easily find that evidence in the West Bank. That shit has been posted almost daily on reddit for like well over a year now.

None of them will even address it.

Tom_Joad posted...
Of course, HAMAS surrendering is not an option, is it?

They should surrender and disband, yes.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Theres a reason why this conflict continues to go around in circles. Hamas greatest weapon right now is misinformation and social media. These toxic conversations are exactly what they want.

Who do you think is more capable of delivering misinformation and propaganda? Hamas or the state that has the backing of the whole western world with their hands in pretty much every major news network?

Strider102 posted...

And Israel doesn't use misinformation?

Im not saying they dont. What I am saying is that these conversations are absolutely pointless. The two sides are clearly defined, there is apparently absolutely no way to move between them, and its basically resorted to a bunch of name calling. Bottom line is, the conversation has gotten so convoluted - as far as this board is concerned, you are either a shill for a terrorist apartheid state or you are an ignorant misinformed wannabe intellectual who doesnt understand the complexity of the longest on going conflict in the modern world.

I mean whats the point in even trying to have an honest discussion at this point?

hockeybub89 posted...

Cool. Everyone here already knows Hamas is bad. Sucks that Israel isn't any better than them.

Hamas wants Israel eradicated and every Jew IN THE WORLD to be killed.

How do you negotiate with them as an Israeli or a Jew?

Ulfar posted...

They should surrender and disband, yes.

That would quickly end the hostilities.

LaManoNeraII posted...

Hamas wants Israel eradicated and every Jew IN THE WORLD to be killed.

How do you negotiate with them as an Israeli or a Jew?

Yea but that doesn't mean the solution is to kill 100k+ people in Gaza and potentially start a hot war with Iran.

LaManoNeraII posted...

Hamas wants Israel eradicated and every Jew IN THE WORLD to be killed.

How do you negotiate with them as an Israeli or a Jew?

And Israel clearly wants ever Palestinian murdered. Not sure how this proves anything.

LaManoNeraII posted...

Hamas wants Israel eradicated and every Jew IN THE WORLD to be killed.

How do you negotiate with them as an Israeli or a Jew?

Surprise, surprise, ignoring me now that he didn't get the answer he wanted.

Enclave posted...

Now please, answer my question, if bombing civilians evacuating from Northern Gaza along routes Israel told them to use isn't a war crime then what is it? Stop your deflection and answer the question. Is it a war crime or is it terrorism or is it justified? Or will you continue to deflect instead of actually answering the question? I know it's a hard question because the only real choices are choices you probably don't want to put on Israel because you support them so much.

@LaManoNeraII

LaManoNeraII posted...

Hamas wants Israel eradicated and every Jew IN THE WORLD to be killed.

You want me to show you footage of Israelites expressing the eradication of Palestinians orrr . . . .????

LaManoNeraII posted...

Hamas wants Israel eradicated and every Jew IN THE WORLD to be killed.

How do you negotiate with them as an Israeli or a Jew?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/1/7/AAA7ArAAD4zt.jpg

Serious question, what is Israel's solution to their current and ongoing occupation? What concessions would they be willing to give up so there could be peace?

TheNextLink posted...

You want me to show you footage of Israelites expressing the eradication of Palestinians orrr . . . .????

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/gaza-graveyard-sing-joyful-israeli-youths

Literally takes like 5 fucking seconds to find multiple videos like this.

They arent even trying if they arent seeing it.

ClayGuida posted...

Serious question, what is Israel's solution to their current and ongoing occupation? What concessions would they be willing to give up so there could be peace?

The unconditional release of all hostages and the unconditional surrender of Hamas, the terrorists organization that just killed thousands of their citizens and have been launching rockets into their territory indiscriminately for the past week.

What is your solution?

Yo_D_oY posted...

"Hamas beheads babies"
"ok show me proof"
*shows proof*
"yeah well Israel still sucks lol"

Yup, I'm done now too.

Hamas being terrorists isn't proof Israel is right to continue years of human rights abuses and murder civilians. Literally both sides are bad and you people give lame excuses about how at least Israel is killing children in less gruesome ways.

If terrorists hide in... Atlanta, is the U.S. federal government allowed to raze the city to the ground and hope there are some terrorists among the corpses?

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Im not saying they dont. What I am saying is that these conversations are absolutely pointless. The two sides are clearly defined, there is apparently absolutely no way to move between them, and its basically resorted to a bunch of name calling. Bottom line is, the conversation has gotten so convoluted - as far as this board is concerned, you are either a shill for a terrorist apartheid state or you are an ignorant misinformed wannabe intellectual who doesnt understand the complexity of the longest on going conflict in the modern world.

I mean whats the point in even trying to have an honest discussion at this point?

There's an attempt going on to try to have an honest discussion, it's just some people have their heads in the sand.

Yes, what Hamas has done is unforgivable, there's absolutely no question about it.

But that doesn't mean Israel is innocent in any of this, they've killed innocent people, they've lied, they've been instrumental in this ongoing conflict.

No side is innocent in this. The ones truly suffering are the people caught in the middle and a lot of them have nowhere to go. That's what people should be talking about.

hockeybub89 posted...

Hamas being terrorists isn't proof Israel is right to continue years of human rights abuses and murder civilians. Literally both sides are bad and you people give lame excuses about how at least Israel is killing children in less gruesome ways.

If terrorists hide in... Atlanta, is the U.S. federal government allowed to raze the city to the ground and hope there are some terrorists among the corpses?

General Sherman enters the chat.

LaManoNeraII posted...

The unconditional release of all hostages and the unconditional surrender of Hamas, the terrorists organization that just killed thousands of their citizens and have been launching rockets into their territory indiscriminately for the past week.

What is your solution?

What hostages were there 2 weeks ago?

I'm asking what solution they've offered.

And my solution is telling Israel that if they want US money they need to negotiate a settlement with the Palestinian people.

Shadow_Don posted...

They arent even trying if they arent seeing it.

That would require being open to seeing it instead of just trying to bludgeon that anybody that doesn't give Israel unlimited good will in their actions is a terrorist sympathizer.

ClayGuida posted...

What hostages were there 2 weeks ago?

I'm asking what solution they've offered.

He's not going to give you a real answer, the second you ask him a hard question he'll just act a coward and run off.

I thought we weren't allowed to use the t-word to describe these groups?

I swear I saw someone get moderated for calling Hamas that...or am I hallucinating?

LaManoNeraII posted...

Hamas wants Israel eradicated and every Jew IN THE WORLD to be killed.

How do you negotiate with them as an Israeli or a Jew?

You seem to be under the impression that I give a shit about Hamas. I'm just saying this has been back-and-forth for a very long times and both sides are disgustingly evil. Netanyahu wants to exterminate every Palestinian. What excuse are you going to give? That at least Netanyahu's genocide would kill less innocent millions than the reverse?

No one cares about ukraine any more.
Did russia pay hamas to start this?

Well my Nintendo defense force loyalty on NGG for you, Laman, has been revoked. SAD!

Ninjaluver posted...

I thought we weren't allowed to use the t-word to describe these groups?

I swear I saw someone get moderated for calling Hamas that...or am I hallucinating?

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

And yes you are on drugs.

brubie posted...

No one cares about ukraine any more.
Did russia pay hamas to start this?

Not an unlikely possibility tbh

Enclave posted...

He's not going to give you a real answer, the second you ask him a hard question he'll just act a coward and run off.

I mean he literally posts as if this clash only started on October 7th 2023.

Tom_Joad posted...

General Sherman enters the chat.

I'm talking about right now.

Scenario: Terrorists are active and hiding wherever you live. Is Joe Biden justified to turn your home into a parking lot? Is your death a small price to fight terrorism? Would you take solace in your last breath that at least the nice American government bombed you instead of beheading you?

hockeybub89 posted...

You seem to be under the impression that I give a shit about Hamas. I'm just saying this has been back-and-forth for a very long times and both sides are disgustingly evil. Netanyahu wants to exterminate every Palestinian. What excuse are you going to give? That at least Netanyahu's genocide would kill less innocent millions than the reverse?

The war in Gaza would be over in seconds if HAMAS surrendered. That is not the action of a country that wishes to exterminate every Palestinian.

Is that something you'd support? Or is fighting a losing war, with mounting civilian casualties, more acceptable to you?

Shadow_Don posted...

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

And yes you are on drugs.

Damn well I guess I'm wrong then.

ClayGuida posted...

I mean he literally posts as if this clash only started on October 7th 2023.

Oh Im well aware Hamas has been attacking Israel for decades.

Israel has appeased them that whole time. They traded Hamas prisoners for Israeli hostages, paid ransoms, and dismantled Israeli settlements in Gaza.

But Hamas has continued attacking them, with the most recent attack costing thousands of lives, including Americans. And was the most deadly attack against Jews since the Holocaust.

Do you believe Israel should still appease them? Just ignore it? Or even surrender?
Did you agree with western appeasement of the Nazis?

hockeybub89 posted...

I'm talking about right now.

Scenario: Terrorists are active and hiding wherever you live. Is Joe Biden justified to turn your home into a parking lot? Is your death a small price to fight terrorism? Would you take solace in your last breath that at least the nice American government bombed you instead of beheading you?

If terrorists stormed my home and was using it to attack American civilians... I'd expect a plane to drop a bomb on it. And yes, that means I'd expect to die.

And I'd be blaming the terrorists for it.

Which is something you aren't.

---

General Sherman is there, showing you that America has a history. One that involved a march to the sea, destroying everything in it's path and leaving Atlanta in ruins.

And we did that to ourselves.

Let's also not forget the roughly 200,000 violent civilian deaths we caused invading Iraq in 2003.

Tom_Joad posted...

If terrorists stormed my home and was using it to attack American civilians... I'd expect a plane to drop a bomb on it. And yes, that means I'd expect to die.

I don't think that is a likely scenario for you to have to face.

And everybody else would be right in calling killing orders of magnitude many more civilians over the lost of intended targets excessive.

Or is any number of civilian lives acceptable to kill the enemy? Any number of horrible actions against civilians?

Tom_Joad posted...

The war in Gaza would be over in seconds if HAMAS surrendered. That is not the action of a country that wishes to exterminate every Palestinian.

Is that something you'd support? Or is fighting a losing war, with mounting civilian casualties, more acceptable to you?

You're not even engaging.

Obviously he would prefer Hamas to surrender. That isn't going to happen because we live in reality and not your fantasy.

The actual question is whether or not potentially 100k or more civilian casualties is worth rooting out Hamas. And the answer to that question should be a resounding no.

Tom_Joad posted...

The war in Gaza would be over in seconds if HAMAS surrendered. That is not the action of a country that wishes to exterminate every Palestinian.

Is that something you'd support? Or is fighting a losing war, with mounting civilian casualties, more acceptable to you?

Why do you think I give a fuck about Hamas. Of course it would be good if they surrendered. Murdering millions if they don't is not justified.

And you're still acting as if Israel was minding their own business before last week. The country has been a human rights black hole for years. Netanyahu has openly wanted to drive Palestinian out completely. Most of his own people want him to step down, while he plots to eliminate democracy to keep himself in power.

Would you be here defending the CCP or the House of Saud if terrorists sprung up in their counties? We'd pretend they're just nice guys responding to an unprovoked assault and that any atrocities they commit are the terrorists' fault?

Strider102 posted...

There's an attempt going on to try to have an honest discussion, it's just some people have their heads in the sand.

Yes, what Hamas has done is unforgivable, there's absolutely no question about it.

But that doesn't mean Israel is innocent in any of this, they've killed innocent people, they've lied, they've been instrumental in this ongoing conflict.

No side is innocent in this. The ones truly suffering are the people caught in the middle and a lot of them have nowhere to go. That's what people should be talking about.

But they arent. They arent talking about it. All I see are baseless accusations that Netanyahu wants to commit genocide and someone else who thinks that Israel is justified in razing Gaza to the ground to eliminate Hamas. Which is historically inaccurate based on several attempts by the Israeli government to make peace only to find that the two sides are so far apart in terms of negotiations that the Dallas Cowboys have a better shot of winning a Superbowl than reaching an agreement.

Heres the question at the heart of this particular situation, war, conflict - whatever term you want to use.

Since 2005, when Israel withdrew from Gaza, there have been a series of skirmishes and terror attacks launched from Gaza towards Israel as well as the Israeli reprisals. 2006, 2008, 2014 just to name three. Im not interested in arguing particulars - who started what or how many died, because thats irrelevant to the question. Im talking about the cycle of violence more than the cause.

So is it still reasonable, given that history, for Israel to simply back off, just go for another cease fire, only for Hamas to rearm, rebuild, and run the risk of doing this again two years from now?

Or is the expectation at this point that Israel simply has to be willing to make every concession demanded of them by the Palestinian Authority before any unified stance against Hamas can be taken? And even in that situation, is there any guarantee that the cycle ends?

Im just trying to figure out where does a rational Israeli find his/her motivation for a lasting peace agreement with Gaza when the only people they have to even try to talk to are fucking terrorists?

Shadow_Don posted...

You're not even engaging.

Obviously he would prefer Hamas to surrender. That isn't going to happen because we live in reality and not your fantasy.

The actual question is whether or not potentially 100k or more civilian casualties is worth rooting out Hamas. And the answer to that question should be a resounding no.

Israel has already killed several Hamas leaders, including those who led the terrorist attack last week. Theyve struck over 300 Hamas facilities. Where are the 100k+ dead Palestinians?

The Allies killed MILLIONS of civilians to dismantle Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Killing civilians is wrong, but would letting the Axis continue its genocide and world conquest to avoid that have been right?

hockeybub89 posted...

Why do you think I give a fuck about Hamas. Of course it would be good if they surrendered. Murdering millions if they don't is not justified.

And you're still acting as if Israel was minding their own business before last week. The country has been a human rights black hole for years. Netanyahu has openly wanted to drive Palestinian out completely. Most of his own people want him to step down, while he plots to eliminate democracy to keep himself in power.

Would you be here defending the CCP or the House of Saud if terrorists sprung up in their counties? We'd pretend they're just nice guys responding to an unprovoked assault and that any atrocities they commit are the terrorists' fault?

We provided support to IRAN when ISIS showed up. So depending on how bad the terrorists are, yes we would.

Tom_Joad posted...

If terrorists stormed my home and was using it to attack American civilians... I'd expect a plane to drop a bomb on it. And yes, that means I'd expect to die.

And I'd be blaming the terrorists for it.

Which is something you aren't.

---

General Sherman is there, showing you that America has a history. One that involved a march to the sea, destroying everything in it's path and leaving Atlanta in ruins.

And we did that to ourselves.

Let's also not forget the roughly 200,000 violent civilian deaths we caused invading Iraq in 2003.

Someone needs to put you on a watchlist.

"If terrorists commit an attack, then the other side has the right to slaughter an infinite number of innocents in response and I would thank them for killing me in the good fight!"

And you're still neglecting Israel's history. Would Hitler have been justified if a terror cell bombed Berlin at some point? Would his past transgressions no longer matter? Because any recognized government is automatically justified to stamp out their enemy by any means necessary?

LaManoNeraII posted...

Israel has already killed several Hamas leaders, including those who led the terrorist attack last week. Theyve struck over 300 Hamas facilities. Where are the 100k+ dead Palestinians?

The fuck do you think is going to happen if they continue to deprive them of food and go through with a ground invasion? Use your head.

The Allies killed MILLIONS of civilians to dismantle Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Killing civilians is wrong, but would letting the Axis continue its genocide and world conquest to avoid that have been right?

Oh my bad I didn't know it was ww3 already

DarthCommodus posted...

The children will remember this. They will grow, and their anger will grow with them, and there will never be peace. Whatever could be proved by bloodletting must have been proven now? How does this profit Israel in any way other than creating new enemies and ensuring the same sad comedy will be played out in another generation?

For the establishment in Israel, thats a feature and not a bug.

Both sides are bad and I am once again right about everything. Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel. Fuck America. If you kill innocent people, you're an evil piece of shit and I don't give a fuck what your justification is.

hockeybub89 posted...

Someone needs to put you on a watchlist.

"If terrorists commit an attack, then the other side has the right to slaughter an infinite number of innocents in response and I would thank them for killing me in the good fight!"

And you're still neglecting Israel's history. Would Hitler have been justified if a terror cell bombed Berlin at some point? Would his past transgressions no longer matter? Because any recognized government is automatically justified to stamp out their enemy by any means necessary?

all youre going to get out of that guy is him pretending he has big nuts in the weirdest way possible, why are you engaging? He literally started with I would be happy to be air striked and totally not die screaming in flames, where do you go from there?