Current Events > So it's been over 8 years now, why haven't you played Undertale?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It sucks

My brother made me play it because he liked it, I ended up loving it.

i played like an hour or two of it a couple weeks ago

yep

Doesn't look interesting

I played it through it once and didn't like it. CE made me play it again and I still didn't like it.

haven't gotten around to it

I played it. It was a good time. I think it could have been made even better because there were some design flaws and weird decisions in certain areas that could / should have been fixed with patches.

I will probably never play it again + I will not play the "sequel" because I find the creator to be annoying and don't want to support him and his endeavors.

I played it via the PS4 port. I actually wasted my time getting the platinum trophy and I give props to the creator for making that shit as tedious as possible as a joke.

Honestly, the fanbase. I was sorta interested it it, but they got really obnoxious. I've been thinking about playing it though, because I am into indie stuff.

SuperSaiyanTien posted...

because I find the creator to be annoying and don't want to support him and his endeavors.

Really?

Toby Fox being a cool dude is like one of the things everyone tends to agree on. Deltarune part 1 and 2 were free, he raises money for charity, promotes other indy games and does music in people's game for free.

He's got actual artistic passion for the media of gaming and music.

Powdered_Toast posted...

Honestly, the fanbase. I was sorta interested it it, but they got really obnoxious. I've been thinking about playing it though, because I am into indie stuff.

I was the same way to be honest. I ignored undertale for years because every now and then when I see a fanbase hype the hell out of something it creates a bitterness in me to ignore whatever game is being hyped up, lmao. Not all the time, just every once in a blue moon.

I think the dynamic theme that came with the PS4 port was what convinced me to pre-order that version. Still, I had the game and did not actually play it until like...last year I believe. One day when I was browsing my game library on the PS5 w/ my PS4 stuff on the external HDD I just fired it up, was all like "oh wow the battle system is pretty creative with it being a mini bullet hell or platformer type of thing to dodge hits", and played it straight through.

I was already spoiled a lot beforehand on how the game has different endings for not killing anything or just wiping everything out, so I did the pacifist thing and actually enjoyed myself.

I have and I loved it. I wanted to play Deltarune but I wanted to wait till it's done... that may have been a foolish choice.

2 reasons why I never played Undertale

1. Its an Indy game
2. the so called fanbase which is BS. its a stupid shovelware overrated overhyped game that tries to be like those old 1980s IBM mcintosh games the text adventure games

Played like 4 hours and it wasn't for me.

Apart from that bullet hells aren't my thing, it was one of those franchises that was ruined by the fanbase long before I got around to looking into it.

I tried it, but the gameplay wasn't appealing to me. The game has some interesting humor and charm, but gameplay wise it's overrated.

i beat it multiple times and love it.

when it won the contest on here i was so against it. was like i'll never play this meme game. then like a year after it was on sale so i bought it and was instantly hooked. more people really should just try it. i know a lot of people are just like "that looks dumb" or something and won't even try it.

I'm surprised so many people on CE played it and didn't like it.

because i'm poor and don't buy video games that i'm not 100% sure i will like

I remember playing a little bit, and then you come to this floor where you can fall to the floor before (iirc, it was close to the beginning of the game), and I stopped right there.

idk why, but I'll probably give it another chance one of these days.

Mediocre as hell. IDK how it even got as much clout as it did. The music is okay, and that's about it. Graphics are bad, the story is pretty nonsensical, and "good" and "evil" routes have been done before.

Played it once and beat it

I didn't like EB, so I'm not interested in its knockoffs. The obsession indie developers have with mimicking the "dark themes behind a cutesy silly exterior" thing is annoying.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

The fanbase is one of many things that makes it a turn off to be honest. On its own, I wouldn't even call it a "great experience."

The gameplay is mediocre, any person that's played any bullet hell is going to get a better experience out of the defensive skills that you'd need to do.

Attacking is bare basic, and there's no reason to really do it under normal circumstances.

Gear in the game is so basic that even bothering to have an equipment system on offense and defense may as well have been something as simple as a Paper Mario style upgrade.

The graphics are actually terrible. And I don't mean because they are simple, I mean they are actually bad. Inconsistent, ugly, and in some instances just having really jank perspectives.

The only thing it has going for it is the story, and I'd argue even the story itself isn't good, but rather the characters can be entertaining which is a mileage may vary (I didn't like most of them).

And the "genocide" vs "pacifist" thing can basically be summed up as "good" or "evil" routes that you see so very often in video games.

BlueAnnihilator posted...

I didn't like EB, so I'm not interested in its knockoffs. The obsession indie developers have with mimicking the "dark themes behind a cutesy silly exterior" thing is annoying.

Also this. EB wasn't a "dark theme behind a cute exterior." EB was just a strange and bizarre adventure from the start. And I like the world of EB, but I cannot stand the gameplay.

ArtiRock posted...

Gear in the game is so basic that even bothering to have an equipment system on offense and defense may as well have been something as simple as a Paper Mario style upgrade.

The graphics are actually terrible. And I don't mean because they are simple, I mean they are actually bad. Inconsistent, ugly, and in some instances just having really jank perspectives.

And the "genocide" vs "pacifist" thing can basically be summed up as "good" or "evil" routes that you see so very often in video games.

These are some... interesting opinions.

Lots of reasons, but the biggest reason was the fan base. It was too Tumblr-y for me.

How about I just don't have an interest in it at all.

Sturgeon's law.

i prefer Overtale.

Cynrascal posted...

How about I just don't have an interest in it at all.

okbutytho

UnfairRepresent posted...

These are some... interesting opinions.

How so? Because I see nothing that made it so critically acclaimed.

UnfairRepresent posted...

okbutytho

There's nothing appealing about it. That's why.

Well it's opinions so I can't say they're right or wrong. If you said "I don't like it because there's no character in the game called Johnny Hotpants" then I can flat out say you're wrong. But I can't really challenge the way you felt about stuff

Gear in the game is so basic that even bothering to have an equipment system on offense and defense may as well have been something as simple as a Paper Mario style upgrade.

The gear in the game (as well as being puns) has a profound impact on both the gameplay and the meta-narrative. They belong to the previous murdered children who walked the path that you did. Every item telling you a little about their personality and having an effect on gameplay beyond just a stat boost.

For example the starting item, the warn bandage has terrible defense stat and no combat perks but allows 100% successs rate of fleeing. Other items regardless of damage stat will also have different rhytms or amount of attacks to appeal to different play styles. Or might sacrifice some defense stat for increased I-frames or deceased enemy attack time. Or it might increase the effect of healing items.

You can also use the equipment as an item in battle. The Stick for example can be used repeatedly at the game in actions with enemies at the cost of an inventory slot. Something you'd only learn if you were curious and exploring the world (Or googled it, you filthy cheater you!)

And this is all presented solidly in a gameplay mechanic wrapped in jokes/puns.

If you played the game but didn't pick up on either the story or gameplay connotations of your decisions and then wonder why they even have a equipment system because all it effects is the "stats"... That's just a really strange take.

Something the game never explicitly tells you but you pick up by playing. And the response of "Why even have equipment!" seems very very very very strange....

It's kinda like playing FIFA and saying you don't understand why they even have a soccerball.

The graphics are actually terrible. And I don't mean because they are simple, I mean they are actually bad. Inconsistent, ugly, and in some instances just having really jank perspectives.

With the one notable exception that's supposed to be inconsistent (And I suppose arguably So Sorry) I can't really think of any graphics in Undertale that are inconsistent or ugly. Undertale has some of the tighest and most consistent art/music in all of gaming, largely considering 95% of the game was made by 2 people.

But as I said before, that's an opinion thing, I don't get what you want me to say to that.

Do you feel the same thing about Cuphead?

And the "genocide" vs "pacifist" thing can basically be summed up as "good" or "evil" routes that you see so very often in video games.

I mean at the very base level yes, "kill everything" is obviously bad and "Don't hurt anyone" is obviously good but reducing the story/gameplay down to that seems pretty silly.

I would hardly say the Pacifist playthrough of Undertale is the same as a non lethal playthrough of MGS2 or that a genocide one is the same as a normal playthrough of MGS2 for example.

Unlike a lot of games "Pacifist" doesn't mean relying on stealth or abusing a KO weapon like a no kill run of Deus Ex. You have to actively figure the monsters out and how to befriend them which demonstrates your curiousity and getting closer and more attatched to the world. It's a fundamental shift in the gameplay and expectations of the player. You even have to back track and hang out with the characters to get to know them. Most games including RPGs don't even give a second thought about the enemies beyond their battle. The big inspiration for Undertale was that Toby Fox felt bad about massacring all the interesting cute creatures in Earthbound.

And especially genocide which is never even presented as a viable "route" to playing the game. The entire thing is a metanarrative about Flowey representing the player growing dettatched. Most games don't even have metanarratives at all, and the Undertale genocide route consists of spending a long time (probably hours on your first run) grinding enemy fights that are dull because at this point you know how to beat them and have tons of HP for literally no reason in a way that's purposefully supposed to be boring. Large sections of the game are literally missing, most bosses don't fight back and it's long ardous grind. All for some extra dialogue and 2 boss fights.

You massacre your friends and prove the world doesn't mean anything because you don't care anymore and just wanted to see the small bits of additional new content that are "different" because it's there. Yet you claim they happened so very often in games?

Name 7 pre 2015 games that did that.

It's just some very strange opinions.

It's one of the few games that I really like, but have zero interest in actually playing myself. Story, characters, music, twists, mixing turn based battles with bullet hell and lite platforming/mini-games, etc... it was a very fun ride to watch, but I don't think I'd have more fun doing it myself. Kudos on the success and getting a presence in Smash Bros, though.

UnfairRepresent posted...

The gear in the game (as well as being puns) has a profound impact on both the gameplay and the meta-narrative. They belong to the previous murdered children who walked the path that you did. Every item telling you a little about their personality and having an effect on gameplay beyond just a stat boost.

For example the starting item, the warn bandage has terrible defense stat and no combat perks but allows 100% successs rate of fleeing. Other items regardless of damage stat will also have different rhytms or amount of attacks to appeal to different play styles. Or might sacrifice some defense stat for increased I-frames or deceased enemy attack time. Or it might increase the effect of healing items.

You can also use the equipment as an item in battle. The Stick for example can be used repeatedly at the game in actions with enemies at the cost of an inventory slot. Something you'd only learn if you were curious and exploring the world (Or googled it, you filthy cheater you!)

And this is all presented solidly in a gameplay mechanic wrapped in jokes/puns.

If you played the game but didn't pick up on either the story or gameplay connotations of your decisions and then wonder why they even have a equipment system because all it effects is the "stats"... That's just a really strange take.

Something the game never explicitly tells you but you pick up by playing. And the response of "Why even have equipment!" seems very very very very strange....

It's kinda like playing FIFA and saying you don't understand why they even have a soccerball.

Several RPGs have had weapons that have storyline significance. This is nothing special in the least. A lot of western RPGs weapons will have significance and aren't just "some random weapon you buy at the store."

Which isn't particularly interesting. And I have no idea why you'd even count this as something that's significant. In many cases, it barely makes a difference. It's not a particularly interesting combat alterations. It's certain not changing my approach to combat. It just gives you things that help you in slightly different ways.

Using equipment as items has been a thing in several RPGs from as early as games like Final Fantasy 1. You can't be serious on thinking this is interesting.

It's an indie game. And Japanese games tend to have a ton of puns.

No. I said... It barely has much outside of slight differences. Hence me saying "Paper Mario" style upgrades, as Paper Mario upgrades are simplistic and nature and generally change things about attacks. IE, you put on a badge that makes you immune to spike damage. There's no attack increase, but changes how you can approach combat differently. You can now jump on flying enemies with spikes. I meant what I said, and you confirmed it with what you're saying.

Yes, and when a person could potentially go through a game and not notice the effects of equipment, that literally solidifies my argument through your own acknowledgement that people could possibly not pick up on what equipment does.

No, it's kinda like playing a game and being told that the differences between a red and blue soccerball are super significant because the red ball is owned by Marco and the blue ball is owned by Luis.
UnfairRepresent posted...

I mean at the very base level yes, "kill everything" is obviously bad and "Don't hurt anyone" is obviously good but reducing the story/gameplay down to that seems pretty silly.

I would hardly say the Pacifist playthrough of Undertale is the same as a non lethal playthrough of MGS2 or that a genocide one is the same as a normal playthrough of MGS2 for example.

Especially genocide which is never even presented as a viable "route" to playing the game. The entire thing is a metanarrative about Flowey representing the player growing dettatched. Most games don't even have metanarratives at all, and the Undertale genocide route consists of spending a long time (probably hours on your first run) grinding enemy fights that are dull because at this point you know how to beat them and have tons of HP for literally no reason in a way that's purposefully supposed to be boring. Large sections of the game are literally missing, most bosses don't fight back and it's long ardous grind. All for some extra dialogue and 2 boss fights.

You massacre your friends and prove the world doesn't mean anything because you don't care anymore and just wanted to see the small bits of additional new content that are "different" because it's there. Yet you claim they happened so very often in games?

Name 7 pre 2015 games that did that.

It's just some very strange opinions.

Because that's what it is.

A non-lethal playthrough of MGS2 is significantly more challenging to do. Try doing something like that in Deus Ex or Alpha Protocol or Planescape... It has some different implications and adds a significantly different approach to tackling the game.

It's a shitty metanarrative that shoots itself in the foot.

"Friends" yes, the people that were all trying to kill you. That's exactly what I would call a friend. The people that you could spend most of it running from when combat presents itself.

You mean name games that had good and evil systems before 2015?

KOTOR, KOTOR2, Alpha Protocol, Fable 1-3, Jade Empire, Dragon Age all of them (they don't specifically monitor them, but the game keeps track of them for you). That's like... 10 right there. All pre 2015. Like seriously, this wasn't breaking any new grounds. Like... Every Bioware game made it a thing, and that's before you even count games like Wasteland or Fallout or anything that tries to resemble DND.

Throw in Shin Megami Tensei 3 with its Order/Chaos alignment system for a playthrough's ending.

ArtiRock posted...

Yes, and when a person could potentially go through a game and not notice the effects of equipment, that literally solidifies my argument through your own acknowledgement that people could possibly not pick up on what equipment does.

For sure

Undertale rewards you for being curious and invested. I just don't think that's automatically a bad thing.

ArtiRock posted...

Because that's what it is.

Oh is it? Well you convinced me.

A non-lethal playthrough of MGS2 is significantly more challenging to do.

It's almost as if solely being challenging wasn't the intended goal.

I love MGS2 but a non lethal run of that game is just perfecting the stealth mechanics and abusing the Tranq. It's got no real story, meta or gameplay varation. It's just a fun way to play. Raidan is still Jack The Ripper. Escorting Emma still sucks.

ArtiRock posted...

It's a shitty metanarrative that shoots itself in the foot.

"Friends" yes, the people that were all trying to kill you. That's exactly what I would call a friend. The people that you could spend most of it running from when combat presents itself.

Actually very few of them are trying to kill you. Pretty much only Undyne and Flowey. And if you constantly run you don't get gold and if you don't keep the bandage on, running will be unsuccessful.

You're arguing from a point of min-maxing rather than roleplaying. Sure you can Look up the strats for each boss, flee every fight and cheese the pacifist run but only if 1. You figured out how to do that by getting invested or 2. You googled it.

Feels like complaining Fallout 1 sucks because you can complete it in 7 minutes if you google what to do first.

Niether of which would be an earnest playthrough of the game from someone who is learning about the world and characters. I feel like you never read the text to learn what the enemies were doing when the fight happened.

ArtiRock posted...

KOTOR, KOTOR2, Alpha Protocol, Fable 1-3, Jade Empire, Dragon Age all of them (they don't specifically monitor them, but the game keeps track of them for you). That's like... 10 right there. All pre 2015.

None of those did the same thing Undertale did... WTF. You're just naming games that have "moral choices"

Like seriously, this wasn't breaking any new grounds.

Then name 7 games that broke the same ground.

No the option to pour blood in the Urn of Sacred ashes in Dragon Age Origins is not the same as the Genocide route in Undertale. WTF?

There's no option in Dragon Age to murder all your friends in an incredible grind, missing out on half the game, fundamentally changing the gameplay, just to see new content based on metanarrative of the player becoming detatched because you're no longer invested in the world.

This is what I mean, your opinions are very very strange.

ArtiRock posted...

Several RPGs have had weapons that have storyline significance. This is nothing special in the least. A lot of western RPGs weapons will have significance and aren't just "some random weapon you buy at the store."

If you say so.

I can't really think of any where every Item/Weapon in the game was tied in so succinctly to the worldbuilding and tells you something about the other characters + your role in the world wordlessly. Considering most RPGs are larger in scale, they can't do that. I also can't think of any where they also use them all as puns.

The gameplay, worldbuilding, meta-narrative, jokes and atmosphere all blend together in well crafted game design you can only really get from a really short game made a couple of people. Final Fantay can't be that compact and dense because it has to be grandiose. So it doesn't try to be.

Which isn't particularly interesting. And I have no idea why you'd even count this as something that's significant.

Well as I said, it's an opinion thing. If you don't find characters, carefully crafted game design, worldbuilding, storytelling without dialogue, tone, atmosphere etc significant. That's up to you.

But considering you can't tell the difference between the Undertale Genocide Route and "Corrupt" Fable 2 playthrough, "Because they both are "bad" routes." I feel like you're just not really that imaginative as a gamer.

Which is fine.

Using equipment as items has been a thing in several RPGs from as early as games like Final Fantasy 1. You can't be serious on thinking this is interesting. It's an indie game. And Japanese games tend to have a ton of puns.

I like that you want to remove it but then simtaniously bring up that lots of good games (curiously you can't name any tho) all do it.

Ok.. As I said. Strange.

No. I said... It barely has much outside of slight differences. Hence me saying "Paper Mario" style upgrades, as Paper Mario upgrades are simplistic and nature and generally change things about attacks. IE, you put on a badge that makes you immune to spike damage. There's no attack increase, but changes how you can approach combat differently. You can now jump on flying enemies with spikes. I meant what I said, and you confirmed it with what you're saying.

I don't see how that change would improve the gameplay at all, meanwhile it would make the gameplay, story and worldbuilding signifcantly worse...

No, it's kinda like playing a game and being told that the differences between a red and blue soccerball are super significant because the red ball is owned by Marco and the blue ball is owned by Luis.

It's not like that all but ok.

It's a game that people think it's good just because it's artsy and meta, even if the gameplay itself is overly simplistic

Choosing to not enjoy something because a fanbase for it is bad is really fucking weird.
The only fanbase that's any good at all is Donkey Kong. So that's all anyone gets to play now.

Turbam posted...

Choosing to not enjoy something because a fanbase for it is bad is really fucking weird.

I mean I sort of get it.

I like Dark Souls but the fanbase is so utterly toxic that I completely understand why it puts people off. I mean a lot of Dark Souls/Fromsoft fans actively try to keep to new fans out.

Part of the fun of getting into something is sharing and talking about it with other people. It's a serious blow if you don't like most of those other people.

UnfairRepresent posted...

If you say so.

I can't really think of any where every Item/Weapon in the game was tied in so succinctly to the worldbuilding and tells you something about the other characters wordlessly. Considering most RPGs are larger in scale, they can't do that. I also can't think of any where they also use them as puns.

This sounds like a personal problem. Like again, in Dragon Age, there are some weapons that do have significance. Your base sword in the human origin has significance. In Fire Emblem Binding Blade, some of the weapons are references to characters from the manga that was made. Not everything needs to have a pun as well, but some can and do.
UnfairRepresent posted...

Well as I said, it's an opinion thing. If you don't find characters, carefully crafted game design, worldbuilding, storytelling without dialogue, tone, atmosphere etc significant. That's up to you.

But considering you can't tell the difference between the Undertale Genocide Route and "Corrupt" Fable 2 playthrough, "Because they both are "bad" routes." I feel like you're just not really that imaginative as a gamer.

The worldbuilding is actually kinda garbo in Undertale. That's literally what I'm saying, it's not that great.

I feel like you're even less imaginative since your response to getting a counterargument is to insult the creativity / intelligence of the person rather than attacking the argument.

UnfairRepresent posted...

I like that you want to remove it but then simtaniously bring up that lots of good games (curiously you can't name any tho) all do it.

Ok.. As I said. Strange.

Final Fantasy 1 isn't a game? That's news to me. Like what are you even trying to argue here?

No. It's not strange. It's a disagreement. There's nothing strange about disagreeing with an opinion.

UnfairRepresent posted...

I don't see how that change would improve the gameplay at all, meanwhile it would make the gameplay, story and worldbuilding signifcantly worse...

Equipment that does something significant when you acquire it wouldn't improve the gameplay??? THIS is a strange opinion that actually needs an explanation.

UnfairRepresent posted...

It's not like that all but ok.

It is exactly that.

YoungMutual posted...

It's a game that people think it's good just because it's artsy and meta, even if the gameplay itself is overly simplistic

Pretty much.

The game is just mediocre. It's average. It's okay. But the fans themselves made it out to be so much more than it is.

Turbam posted...

Choosing to not enjoy something because a fanbase for it is bad is really f***ing weird.
The only fanbase that's any good at all is Donkey Kong. So that's all anyone gets to play now.

No, it's not that bad. Getting turned off from something makes sense. I never played Portal for years because "the cake is a lie" was etched everywhere around me and memed to death. When I finally got around to it years later, not only did I find the game pleasant to play, but I also realized how little that stupid meme was even present. Hell, those people were so obnoxious that there wasn't even references to cake within the second game.

ArtiRock posted...

This sounds like a personal problem. Like again, in Dragon Age, there are some weapons that do have significance. Your base sword in the human origin has significance. In Fire Emblem Binding Blade, some of the weapons are references to characters from the manga that was made. Not everything needs to have a pun as well, but some can and do.

For sure. But a blurb telling you that Yusaris is the blade Dane used to kill Fenshal and the werewolf is not the same thing at all as what Undertale is doing. Where EVERY item tells you something about personalities of the kids who fell. Who were all murdered. The path you're walking now. It all ties back to you, what's happened in the underground, what's happening directly around you. All without words. It's tight as a walnut in a corset.

I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down. If Undertale added a new weapon called "The Hammer of Leonardo" which had a blurb (or a NPC) who told you "177 years ago Leonardo used it to defeat the Tyrant melakajajaja one Tuesday" that weapon has "Significance" but provides nothing to the narrative Undertale was weaving.

You're mixing up "Well both these RPG items have lore" the same way you were mixing up "Well both playing as Renegade in Mass Effect 2 and the Genocide route involve making "bad" choices so they are the same thing."

This is what I was refering to about the lack of imagination. It wasn't an insult. It's about the the different ways people's minds work. You're very literal and rigid in your thinking.

The tutu (one of about a dozen items in the entire game) belonged to a girl Asgore murdered and it and the ballet shoes not only effect your attack and defense but also tell you a little about her in a short tight story about one fantasy adventure which is demonstrated to you wordlessly... is the same thing as a dagger (one of about 1000 items in the game) having a blurb of lore in the equipment menu of something someone did with it at some time in a grandiose globtrotting RPG adventure where every 20 minutes you're doing something different with different people in different places.

You see that as the same thing because they're both "Items and lore." and don't see how other people are picking up the worldbuilding, atmosphere, pacing and character focus that is being put down

ArtiRock posted...

The worldbuilding is actually kinda garbo in Undertale. That's literally what I'm saying, it's not that great.

I feel like you're even less imaginative since your response to getting a counterargument is to insult the creativity / intelligence of the person rather than attacking the argument.

I've not insulted you once and I have repeatedly said over and over that opinions are opinions and there's not much I can say to them.

If you say you think Undertale's storytelling is garbo, that's your view.

It's just the "Genocide route is the same thing as a binary moral choice in fable" or "Remove the equipmenet system to improve the game" takes that are very very strange opinions.

There's contrarian and then there's completely random.

ArtiRock posted...

Equipment that does something significant when you acquire it wouldn't improve the gameplay???

That's literally what you were arguing to remove x_X

I played it, but didn't really get it. Toriel told me to wait then never came back. Should I have left the game on for another couple of hours?

UnfairRepresent posted...

There's contrarian and then there's completely random.

Arti's giving some shit takes, but I feel like you could also present better arguments for Undertale's case.

Though I feel I should also get some of the bad out of the way first. While it has a strong start and ending, the middle has a lot of annoying segments that get brought down on repeat playthroughs (looking at you, Alphys/Hotland in general).

But beyond that, to me, one of the biggest reasons why Undertale is good (besides the music) is the sheer amount of thought that went into player choices. Flowey is the easiest example, since he's the one criticizing your choices the most, but he's also there as a tragic figure that you're still supposed to hate for most of your playthrough. On the other hand, there's a reason why Sans is so loved, and for those who know the lore about him (or that he even exists to begin with), Gaster as well. Things like resetting during the final judgment section to get Sans to say some code words or making the opposite choice in repeat playthroughs, only to have certain characters comment in a deja vu-like sense, are pretty eye-opening for what you'd expect from an indie game.