Current Events > Dem: Biden's Black support is dropping because, they don't understand civics.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Things already have changed. It doesn't matter anyway, as republicans and the media will just say it's all shit regardless.

Biden = lesser of two evils.

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Almost 10m people who didn't vote for Trump in 2016 voted for him in 2020 after 4 years of him as POTUS and an especially egregious handling of the pandemic.

There is absolutely fault to be placed with the constituents (general electorate), even if not all of it.

The thing is about takes like this, is that no one cares if the economy is good for the nation or upper class in general. No one cares that money is being made. Vast majority of people care that they're getting reamed from every direction with costs going up on literally everything, constantly seeing in the news companies posting record profits companies, and seeing no relief in sight for themselves.

Not to mention the looming dread from AI, the job landscape changing incredibly fast, and a variety of other issues. "The economy is bad" is code for the population saying "I don't feel valued and only see doom ahead "

A person that doesn't agree with any sides has no opinions on their own? Interesting.

As far as you saying "destroying the country" goes, I have to ask, have you seen any a lot of these cities where drug users walk around like irate zombies? Do you know how much cartel members have crossed our borders and how there's possibly terrorists cells that have crossed to enter the United States? Have you seen king size candy bars that were $1.86 just a couple of years ago up to nearly 4 dollars now. Things are bad here NOW and if our current president stays in power it's only going to get worse.

Especially the purist wing who uses the same mindset of, "I want what I want, regardless if I don't have the numbers in government to get what I want! It's all or nothing!" The purist types are never satisfied no matter what you do for them because it's never good enough. Theyre purely idealistic, and not realistic.

The purist type. You mean people who want Democrats to do more then be Republicans lite. Or don't want the president to lie about seeing dead babies ?

The idea that they are "Republican lite" is definitely your feelings dictating reality given the level of extremism Republicans openly flirts with, and what they openly are telling Americans they will do if Trump wins. The fact that you characterized them as "Republicans lite" is actually my point.

As for Biden lying or not, no one said you cant be upset or criticize him about anything Biden does that bad.

However there is a fine line between criticism, and going down the purist route of acting like they are the same or "almost the same" as Republicans if they fuck up on something or have several stances that differentiate from you while you ignore the majority of stances and efforts that align with you. Especially the types that always say "it's not enough" given what Congress looks like.

Not if you are a leftist.

Even if you are leftist they are still not the same.

Claiming they are is exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone who doesn't perfectly align with you is not the same as the opposite extreme. Or "just as bad."

The fact that you boil things down into extremely binary non nuance level of logic, doesn't change they aren't actually the same.

You conveniently cut out the part where I said "one is better than the other" so you could make your scripted, strawman point.

I didn't conveniently leave it out as your logic by your own words still leads you to claiming, "they're both leading to the same conclusion" when they are not.

The two are not the same, and not pushing for the same outcomes just because you can find a stance they might agree on at a wide variant level.

Your logic also still ignores reality of how politics works, and how laws are actually passed. Even your logic claiming "Democrats fear losing Republicans" which again ignores reality. Love them or hate them, Republicans make up approximately 40% of the country that actually votes. We have to compromise with these people to pass any legislation based on our current make up of congress. In politics that includes sometimes having to sweat talk a few into being willing to compromise. The House literally is controlled (I use that word loosely) by Republicans right now. Like it or not, the 2 parties need to work together right now until we can vote enough Republicans out.

The conclusion is the same, even if they want different things. If you're trying to escape a serial killer by driving away and the serial killer (Republicans) is blocking your path and you (Democrats) genuinely want to escape, but don't put the keys in the ignition or turn the engine on (mobilizing people), the outcome is going to be you sitting there, regardless of what you want.

If you claim to pursue a goal, but don't utilize the tactics necessary to get there, you can't be surprised when you don't reach your goal. Not reaching the goal is what Republicans want and what we'll get if they're not stopped. So by not using the necessary tactics, you're getting to the same goal by a different route.

Let's tie this back to black voters. Lets say Dems want to end school segregation and funding disparities. Republicans want to keep things the same or even make them worse. Let's say that to fix that issue, funding would need to be a taken over by the state or federal government, and would no longer be based on the wealth of the school's area. If a lot of time, energy, and money is wasted on things that don't work, and the thing that does work is taken off the table, the outcome will be a Republican win (the status quo or worse) even though that's not what the Democrats wanted.

Also, I didn't say Democrats fear losing Republicans, I said they fear losing TO Republicans. Compromising into fake solutions that don't actually solve anything benefits Republicans and not Democrats. We have to waste our time defending half measures that still leave people suffering while Republicans prey on discontent and wait to reverse whatever gains we do make. The goal of politics is to solve problems, not merely be in office or pass something.

This entire post doubles down on you not understanding or even grasping Democrats do not have the numbers to pass whatever they want. Which means like it or not they are forced to compromise with Republicans on watered down legislation you don't like. Even being blocked on some of the agendas we may want.

You just didn't get everything you wanted so it's the same as some opposite extreme to you.

Your entire post and even the examples repeatedly ignores the reality that Democrats regardless if they genuinely want to do xyz, they can't based on what we have to work with. Regardless if you like it or not, we have to work with Republicans if we want to pass anything in Congress as we don't have the numbers in Congress to pass sweeping legislation without any obstruction from Republicans and even 1 or 2 flops like Sinema and Manchin. Regardless if you like it or not, how politics, government and civics works.... it mean we are forced to compromise on watered down legislation even if it doesn't check every box you wanted.

That ofc isn't to say one shouldn't criticize Democrats, or that there isn't room for improvement.... but Crocket was spot on. Too many do not actually comprehend how the United States Government actually works. They think because they vote sporadically once in a while that the person or team they voted for can just unanimously pass sweeping legislation from their campaign promises. In reality that is not how politics works.

1. You need to find some other way to convince black people that the current situation is okay enough for them to come out and vote FOR the Democrats. Just insisting people are ignorant and stupid is not going to work. Just saying the other guy will be worse might work, but as 2016 shows, it might not. Democrats are the party that claims they will fix the issues black people care about, but they get elected and don't. People are going to be mad about that and you have to figure out how to deal with that in a constructive manner. The answer isn't lectures about civics or promising less, it's finding a way to deliver. You say you're focused on pragmatism and reality, but seem to be refusing to understand that reality.
2. We can change what we have to work with if different tactics were used and different policies were enacted. Democrats have public support on their side for truly transformative policies. They have the overwhelming support of voting age people in general. But they don't mobilize these people, instead they demobilize them and try to win by upsetting things as little as possible. That's an active choice the Democratic party makes and it results in the constraints that we see. There are things that the Democrats independently control like their platform, their staffing, who they endorse, how they practice politics, how they communicate, etc that play a huge role in what the board looks like and what the possibilities are. For example, a lot more things are on the table if there was a possibility of targeted or even a general strike if any key Democratic priority was obstructed. But the Democrats would have to change to make that a possibility, totally independent of the number of Senators it takes to break a filibuster or the House map in 2024.

You need to find some other way to convince black people that the current situation is okay enough for them to come out and vote FOR the Democrats.

emblem-man posted...

If you had told me that under Biden we would have the lowest unemployment numbers in decades, have passed the largest climate spending bill ever, poured tens of billions into the IRS so that they can go after large tax evaders, cancelled the student loans of millions of people, totalling over 100 billion, with the majority of those cancellations happening to low income people who were unfortunate enough to go to schools that essentially defrauded them and public servents, plus setup a new income based repayment program that drastically reduces student loan payments. Plus codify gay marriage, CHIPS bill, etc.

And all that happened with a 1 seat majority in the Senate?

If you had told me all of the above would happen with my 2020 vote for Biden, I'd have been joyous and would be asking how much of a landslide Biden would win 2024.

That's a much better strategy than what others have suggested. Go with that, not "you blacks are remedial and don't understand how government works." Why is that some people's instinct? If you really think Biden has done wonders, publicize those wonders and say there's more where that come from.

The issue is that there's an underlying current of unease that none of those policy wins actually addressed. People feel their paychecks shrinking, housing is increasingly unaffordable, they're not safe going outside due to mass shootings or just regular shootings, they're still living in segregated neighborhoods, behind on wealth, still overwhelmingly saddled with student/medical/credit card debt, that their kids will be worse off instead of better of than they were. So when you tell them things are actually great, they scoff. THAT'S what need to be addressed, it's what killed Hillary, and it may kill Biden and there really hasn't been a response on that other than telling people things are actually great, they just don't get it.

I'm not calling them dumb. Democrats tend to be bad at highlighting the positive things they do. I think it's good for me to highlight and let people know those positives in case they haven't heard about it.
If they have heard about it and they don't care, then that let's me better know what solutions and policies they want.
Informing people is not calling them stupid.

I can also tell them that part of the IRA was to allow negotiating of drug prices which will drive down prices. Depending on where they live, I can also talk about YIMBY wins that will help drive down the cost of home ownership. I can tell them about the lower student loans they will be paying for outright cancellation of those loans.

If their argument is that they want those things to happen now and not in a year since policy takes time, then you're right. I have no answer for them and I don't think any candidate will, and any candidate that does is outright lying to them.

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It's tough being a democrat, you actually have to do stuff your constituents want... lately they have been coasting on a lot of the: "but if we lose the literal theocratic corporate fascists will end democracy and start up the camps" vote.

Republicans just have to say the right buzzwords and virtue signal their bigotry and intolerance.

It's tough being a democrat, you actually have to do stuff your constituents want... lately they have been coasting on a lot of the: "but if we lose the literal theocratic corporate fascists will end democracy and start up the camps" vote.

Republicans just have to say the right buzzwords and virtue signal their bigotry and intolerance.

A Democratic Party that refused to do what the people want and need is a party that directly dampens the hopes of the people, creates frustration and desperation, and thus creates the conditions for a final Republican win.

It's tough being a democrat, you actually have to do stuff your constituents want... lately they have been coasting on a lot of the: "but if we lose the literal theocratic corporate fascists will end democracy and start up the camps" vote.

Do you genuinely think I don't understand these basic things or are you just trying to smear me?

I'm voting third party, screw both of them.

Neither party deserves my support.

I don't think you dont dont understand; your posts show you don't understand these basic things. I'm not saying that to smear you either believe it or not.

I also don't think this is unique to you, nor am I specifically making this about you to target you. What I said generally applies to the average American voter who gets their news from social media and their favorite talking heads. They think they understand basic civics and how the United States Government works..... but then they start talking with idealistic ideas, with idealistic expectations with the current makeup up even just our existing Congress and show no they really don't understand. As they start saying things that sound nice and idealistic......., but in reality and in practice ignores whether you like compromise or not we are unable to bypass the numbers we have to actually pass their idealistic legislation. The 40% of the country you disagree with doesn't just disappear because we dislike their toxic agendas. Just ignoring them doesn't make them go away, and it most certainly doesn't help "staying home" as some argue as their representation grows more powerful.

We legit have some who think the President can make sweeping policy changes with a flick of a pen. Or those who question why Democrats bother compromising with Republicans despite Democrats not having the numbers to pass what they originally wanted.

So yes, many think they understand how the United States Government works, but they really....dont. We have to work with these people if we are going to get anything done. At least until we can vote Republicans out in enough numbers that its impossible for them to obstruct. And we arent at the whims of 1 or 2 flakes like Sinema and Manchin.

And despite the propaganda, the Biden administration has actually passed a lot of good agendas despite the level obstruction he faced.

Which again I need to stress that isn't to say one shouldn't criticize Democrats, or that there isn't room for improvement.... but Crocket was spot on. Too many do not actually comprehend how the United States Government actually works. You can't pass legislation on idealistic dreams alone, and listening to your favorite talking head who perpetuates we can magically ignore our we don't have the numbers. That isn't how the United States Government actually works. Whether you like what we are stuck with or not, we literally have do not have the numbers in government to pass sweeping legislation without obstruction from Republicans.

TLDR: You. Don't. Have. Enough. Power and numbers. In. Government. Yet. This cannot be stressed enough, which only gets worse with the "why vote" purist types who do not understand they play a part in making shit worse. Who also seem to think there will be a promised turnaround after 2024 to reverse stacking damages and even more numbers of Republicans sitting in seats of government. Idealistic dreams isn't going to overcome the numbers needed in government to pass legislation, obstruction free.

I don't think you dont dont understand; your posts show you don't understand these basic things. I'm not saying that to smear you either believe it or not.

I also don't think this is unique to you, nor am I specifically making this about you to target you. What I said generally applies to the average American voter who gets their news from social media and their favorite talking heads. They think they understand basic civics and how the United States Government works..... but then they start talking with idealistic ideas, with idealistic expectations with the current makeup up even just our existing Congress and show no they really don't understand. As they start saying things that sound nice and idealistic......., but in reality and in practice ignores whether you like compromise or not we are unable to bypass the numbers we have to actually pass their idealistic legislation. The 40% of the country you disagree with doesn't just disappear because we dislike their toxic agendas. Just ignoring them doesn't make them go away, and it most certainly doesn't help "staying home" as some argue as their representation grows more powerful.

We legit have some who think the President can make sweeping policy changes with a flick of a pen. Or those who question why Democrats bother compromising with Republicans despite Democrats not having the numbers to pass what they originally wanted.

So yes, many think they understand how the United States Government works, but they really....dont. We have to work with these people if we are going to get anything done. At least until we can vote Republicans out in enough numbers that its impossible for them to obstruct. And we arent at the whims of 1 or 2 flakes like Sinema and Manchin.

And despite the propaganda, the Biden administration has actually passed a lot of good agendas despite the level obstruction he faced.

Which again I need to stress that isn't to say one shouldn't criticize Democrats, or that there isn't room for improvement.... but Crocket was spot on. Too many do not actually comprehend how the United States Government actually works. You can't pass legislation on idealistic dreams alone, and listening to your favorite talking head who perpetuates we can magically ignore our we don't have the numbers. That isn't how the United States Government actually works. Whether you like what we are stuck with or not, we literally have do not have the numbers in government to pass sweeping legislation without obstruction from Republicans.

TLDR: You. Don't. Have. Enough. Power and numbers. In. Government. Yet. This cannot be stressed enough, which only gets worse with the "why vote" purist types who do not understand they play a part in making shit worse. Who also seem to think there will be a promised turnaround after 2024 to reverse stacking damages and even more numbers of Republicans sitting in seats of government. Idealistic dreams isn't going to overcome the numbers needed in government to pass legislation, obstruction free.

Why are so many people mad at Biden for something someone not part of his administration said?

Okay, let's back up. If someone believed that we need to get certain concrete policy proposals passed in order to still have anything resembling democracy or a habitable planet, how could they advocate for that in a way that shows they understand the government in your eyes? Is that possible? How would it look different from what I've said in this topic.

I mean if you really believe to have your finger on the pulse and know all the right answers then why don't you run for office?

Why are so many people mad at Biden for something someone not part of his administration said?

This. Just this.

Democratic Party was much more of a working class party, they styled themselves that way, operated that way, legislated that

Labor unions have seen their strongest growth and power under Biden