Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Thread 5 (Gaza Invaded)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Starks posted...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/18/us-israel-hamas-reach-tentative-deal-pause-conflict-free-dozens-hostages/

There is a deal.

Or not?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-deal-yet-pm-shoots-down-incorrect-reports-of-imminent-hostage-agreement/

Israel would never agree to anything Hamas wants.

Starks posted...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/18/us-israel-hamas-reach-tentative-deal-pause-conflict-free-dozens-hostages/

There is a deal.

Or not?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-deal-yet-pm-shoots-down-incorrect-reports-of-imminent-hostage-agreement/

I read somewhere that Israel didn't even try to negotiate for the hostages until the last week. 5 weeks of refusing to even talk to the captors.

People are saying that Haaretz is reporting that they Israeli shot some of the people on Oct 7th. I can't think to the Haaretz report because it is a firewalled. Note this was not them saying it was false flag attack.

cjsdowg posted...

People are saying that Haaretz is reporting that they Israeli shot some of the people on Oct 7th. I can't think to the Haaretz report because it is a firewalled. Note this was not them saying it was false flag attack.

If this is about their gunship firing on the crowd without first confirming friendlies from hostiles, I believe we mentioned it in the last thread. I don't remember how solid the evidence was, though.

Forty_Niners posted...

I read somewhere that Israel didn't even try to negotiate for the hostages until the last week. 5 weeks of refusing to even talk to the captors.

With indiscriminate bombing of wherever they "thought" Hamas "might" be located.

Israel made it pretty clear they don't care about the lives of the hostages, I wonder how much of the world still thinks they do.

Forty_Niners posted...

I'm sure there's a sect that will still call Sanders a Hamas associate and anti-semite

Mostly actual anti-semites will say this.

The goal it seems is genocide until the world (mainly the US) finally tells them to stop. Get away with it as long as possible.

darkace77450 posted...

If this is about their gunship firing on the crowd without first confirming friendlies from hostiles, I believe we mentioned it in the last thread. I don't remember how solid the evidence was, though.

Sorry I was not in that one. I know PolitiFact and other places said that was not true. Not Israel is confirming it. I hate I am using this term , but I don't know what way to say this better. I hate that mainstream media believes every single thing Israel says. When it is confirmed that they lied its like oh well that doesn't matter.

Forty_Niners posted...

Bernie calls for conditions to future money going to Israel:

* End to indiscriminate bombing and a pause in action until civilians can get the humanitarian aid
* Faithful negotiations for a 2 state solution
* No long term blockade for Gaza
* Clear West Bank occupation and violence against Palestinians
* Right for Palestinians displaced by the war to return to Gaza

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1726014196276490714/photo/2

Oh so Bernie sanders is a anti-semite now, he should be cancelled just like Musk then, fuckin hypocrites socialist Communists! - chuds

P.S. stop paying for foreigners, America first!

P.P.S. this wouldn't be happening if Trump was president!

P.P.P.S Trump should be king!

80 dead after Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza is hit by Israeli airstrikes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/israeli-airstrikes-kill-80-in-palestinian-refugee-camp

At least 30 premature born children evacuated from hospital, is bound for Egypt
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-19-2023-08a2f441a9ea03bf0bb3db0de6fc5408

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1724698306553504184

It is funny that yes , they do know this stuff is wrong.

cjsdowg posted...

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1724698306553504184

It is funny that yes , they do know this stuff is wrong.

I get that being in such a position can be a special tap dance of what appear to be conflicting positions, but Jesus fucking Christ, man, do you hear yourself?

I have unlocked a new level of rage at seeing this. Didn't even know it was there.

AltAccount3 posted...

80 dead after Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza is hit by Israeli airstrikes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/israeli-airstrikes-kill-80-in-palestinian-refugee-camp

Yeah man but they probably thought there was possibly a guy who once was gardener for a Hamas member there.

cjsdowg posted...

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1724698306553504184

It is funny that yes , they do know this stuff is wrong.

It's only wrong when it's not American taxpayer money funding it. When we or our proxies do it it's fine.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/19/1214024420/gaza-israel-al-shifa-hospital-evacuation

A team of medical and humanitarian aid groups successfully evacuated 31 premature babies from Al-Shifa Hospital in northern Gaza on Sunday, the Palestine Red Crescent Society announced.

They were transported to the south of Gaza to the Emirates Hospital in Rafah by PRCS ambulances, the group said.

The evacuation was organized by the World Health Organization and the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

Just a day earlier, a joint United Nations humanitarian assessment team, led by the WHO, entered Al-Shifa to see first-hand the dire circumstances of the facility, the groups said.

They found piles of medical and solid waste filling the crowded corridors of Gaza's largest hospital, according to the WHO. The team saw a mass grave by the hospital's entrance and was told at least 80 bodies were lying there, the WHO said.

This team's trip only lasted an hour and was "deconflicted" with Israel's military to ensure safe passage, the group said.

In that time, they found that several patients have died in the previous two to three days due to medical services shutting down in the facility, according to the WHO. And now there are just 25 health workers for the 291 remaining patients. The premature babies were considered to be in "extremely critical condition," the WHO said.

The hospital reported it lost power after running out of fuel to run their generators this past week, causing the death of some patients.

U.N. representatives described the formerly advanced and best equipped referral hospital in Gaza now as a "death zone."

ScazarMeltex posted...

It's only wrong when it's not American taxpayer money funding it. When we or our proxies do it it's fine.

We won't give Ukraine long-range missiles in part because we don't want them used to kill Russian civilians.

darkace77450 posted...

We won't give Ukraine long-range missiles in part because we don't want them used to kill Russian civilians.

Ukraine isn't really an American proxy though in the way that Israel is. Ukraine and the US relationship in regards to arms supplying is on this scale is relatively new. Our relationship with Israel goes back decades.

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/19/west-bank-israel-settler-violence-travel-ban

President Biden stressed on Saturday that the U.S. is prepared to impose sanctions on Israeli settlers who are involved in attacks against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.

I'm sure that will happen right after Trump releases his tax returns.

https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-11-18/ty-article/0000018b-e1a5-d168-a3ef-f5ff4d070000

Israel's Haaretz reports, "According to a police source, the investigation also shows that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived to the scene and fired at terrorists there apparently also hit some festival participants,"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/poll-bidens-standing-hits-new-lows-israel-hamas-war-rcna125251

70% of Americans 18-34 disapprove of Biden's handling of this war right now.

Dems simply cannot win without those votes.

Forty_Niners posted...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/poll-bidens-standing-hits-new-lows-israel-hamas-war-rcna125251

70% of Americans 18-34 disapprove of Biden's handling of this war right now.

Dems simply cannot win without those votes.

So we're going to get stuck with someone who would not only handle the war even worse, but will also do even further damage to our own country and other geopolitical relations on top of that.

Mystereave posted...

So we're going to get stuck with someone who would not only handle the war even worse, but will also do even further damage to our own country and other geopolitical relations on top of that.

At this point, the way Biden is refusing to acknowledge what his base is saying is getting close to Trump ignoring everyone around him when he lost the election. You have millions of Democrat voters protesting the war, democratic congressmen calling for a ceasefire, and 400+ members of Biden's own cabinet telling him to do something and he's just going straight gung-ho pro-Israel no-compromises anyway. Nobody is asking him to side with Hamas, people just want him to step in and stop letting innocent civilians die.

The people will not forget this shit next year if he doesn't yield.

AltAccount3 posted...

At this point Biden refusing to acknowledge what his base is saying is getting close to Trump ignoring everyone around him when he lost the election. You have millions of Democrat voters protesting the war, democratic congressmen calling for a ceasefire, and 400+ members of Biden's own cabinet telling him to do something and he's just going straight gung-ho pro-Israel no compromises anyway. Nobody is asking him to side with Hamas, people just want him to step in and stop letting innocent civilians die.

The people will not forget this shit next year if he doesn't yield.

They won't, but they'll still rather vote for Biden than 45 and they'll turn out because of the abortion issue. But otherwise I agree.

AltAccount3 posted...

At this point Biden refusing to acknowledge what his base is saying is getting close to Trump ignoring everyone around him when he lost the election. You have millions of Democrat voters protesting the war, democratic congressmen calling for a ceasefire, and 400+ members of Biden's own cabinet telling him to do something and he's just going straight gung-ho pro-Israel no compromises anyway. Nobody is asking him to side with Hamas, people just want him to step in and stop letting innocent civilians die.

The people will not forget this shit next year if he doesn't yield.

The best outcome would be that this pushes a third party candidate over the line. The second best would be that it forces the Democrats to run a different candidate instead of Joe. Trump winning would be a disaster and make the situation (and many other situations) far worse, but that's the likely outcome if neither of the first two happen.

Forty_Niners posted...

I read somewhere that Israel didn't even try to negotiate for the hostages until the last week. 5 weeks of refusing to even talk to the captors.

Apparently this is an unreasonable stance to take.

https://youtu.be/2lhkKv0deDI?si=0uZZ44TVJBgw5GmJ

Mystereave posted...

So we're going to get stuck with someone who would not only handle the war even worse, but will also do even further damage to our own country and other geopolitical relations on top of that.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/95679242.jpg

AltAccount3 posted...

At this point Biden refusing to acknowledge what his base is saying is getting close to Trump ignoring everyone around him when he lost the election. You have millions of Democrat voters protesting the war, democratic congressmen calling for a ceasefire, and 400+ members of Biden's own cabinet telling him to do something and he's just going straight gung-ho pro-Israel no compromises anyway. Nobody is asking him to side with Hamas, people just want him to step in and stop letting innocent civilians die.

The people will not forget this shit next year if he doesn't yield.

And while I understand that, do any of those people realize the horror that a Trump admin will encourage Israel to unleash on the Palestinians? Not to mention what things like project 2025 will do to the fabric of our society.

That is of course not an excuse for Biden here, he absolutely needs to be forced into compliance with the what the majority of his party wants here instead the traditional US response of letting Israel do whatever it wants.

Forty_Niners posted...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/poll-bidens-standing-hits-new-lows-israel-hamas-war-rcna125251

70% of Americans 18-34 disapprove of Biden's handling of this war right now.

Dems simply cannot win without those votes.

Damn. Didn't realize Israel/Palestine was more important than health care, climate change, abortion rights, supporting Ukraine, income inequality, LGBTQ+ rights, and like 100 other things you would think would all each be equally as or more important to american voters as that.

Yeah, screw Biden. Let's let Trump back in charge, I'm sure he cares about Palestinians more!

streamofthesky posted...

Damn. Didn't realize Israel/Palestine was more important than health care, climate change, abortion rights, supporting Ukraine, income inequality, LGBTQ+ rights, and like 100 other things you would think would all each be equally as or more important to american voters as that.

Yeah, screw Biden. Let's let Trump back in charge, I'm sure he cares about Palestinians more!

Biden would not do anything about the bolded, and some of the others are generous too

Also, even if granted that these are things Biden would materially improve, what's stopping him from improving those things AND supporting Palestine? Why not have his cake and eat it too?

streamofthesky posted...

Damn. Didn't realize Israel/Palestine was more important than health care, climate change, abortion rights, supporting Ukraine, income inequality, LGBTQ+ rights, and like 100 other things you would think would all each be equally as or more important to american voters as that.

Yeah, screw Biden. Let's let Trump back in charge, I'm sure he cares about Palestinians more!

Israel said that was a complex James Bond Villain liar under a Hosptial . With this Biden supported them shelling said Hosptial. When they entered the place. Like lied about the calendar, they lied about finding guns . And the Biden Admin said they found 10 guns. And used justification, then lied and said you won't find guns in Texas Hospitals when you will.

AltAccount3 posted...

At this point, the way Biden is refusing to acknowledge what his base is saying...

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4317318-bidens-support-among-democrats-erodes-on-handling-of-israel-hamas-war/

NBC News noted that only half of Democratic voters, 51 percent, approved of Bidens handling of the conflict.

You guys have to stop pretending you speak for everyone in the Democratic Party. The reality is Biden's going to piss half his supporters off one way or the other.

cjsdowg posted...

Israel said that was a complex James Bond Villain liar under a Hosptial . With this Biden supported them shelling said Hosptial. When they entered the place. Like lied about the calendar, they lied about finding guns . And the Biden Admin said they found 10 guns. And used justification, then lied and said you won't find guns in Texas Hospitals when you will.

They found the tunnels, btw:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67466779

In the last few minutes, the Israeli military has released footage which it says shows a "55m-long terror tunnel, 10m deep underneath the Shifa hospital".

In the video, the entrance to a deep staircase is shown at ground level, among rubble in the al-Shifa complex.

Once at the bottom, troops appear to walk along a well-constructed tunnel shaft that leads to a heavy door.

"This type of door is used by the Hamas terrorist organisation to block Israeli forces from entering the command centres and the underground assets belonging to Hamas," the Israel Defense Forces (DF) say in a statement, adding that investigations "are continuing to uncover the route of the tunnel".

The Israeli forces have claimed for weeks that Hamas has a command and control centre underneath al-Shifa - allegations the group and medical staff at the hospital deny.

Last week, the US said its intelligence similarly suggested Hamas has a network underneath
al-Shifa.

And also evidence that hostages were taken to that hospital:

Daniel Hagari, the IDF spokesperson, shows reporters CCTV footage that he says is from al-Shifa on 7 October - when Hamas attacked Israel.

The IDF spokesperson says it shows two hostages kidnapped from Israel, one of whom is bleeding on his arm, being brought to the hospital.

"We don't know where these hostages are now," he says.

He also shows images he says show an IDF jeep taken from Israel at the hospital, as well as a white pick-up that he says was of the type used by Hamas commandos when they attacked Israel.

"By now the truth is clear - Hamas is waging terror from hospitals," Hagari says.

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1726224194458071160

Mysterious_One posted...

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1726224194458071160

This is very significant I think. Media's trust is being stretched thin

Mystereave posted...

So we're going to get stuck with someone who would not only handle the war even worse, but will also do even further damage to our own country and other geopolitical relations on top of that.

Possibly, but when people are seeing people getting slaughtered and the government tell them 'these things happen', they're going to turn on the government, Trump or not.

I'm starting to think Biden will be a one term President more and more. I don't think Trump will beat him, but I think DeSantis probably will. For various reasons, the people that elected Biden in the first place are slowly abandoning him, according to polls.

Forty_Niners posted...

I'm starting to think Biden will be a one term President more and more. I don't think Trump will beat him, but I think DeSantis probably will. For various reasons, the people that elected Biden in the first place are slowly abandoning him, according to polls.

It looks that way in a snapshot taken today, but after Trump wins his party's nominations and the spotlight settles on him, Americans will be reminded why they voted in record numbers to kick him out of office. DeSantis won't be a factor in next year's general election unless Trump drops dead between now and then, and even this I'm not sure he'd win his party's nomination.

Forty_Niners posted...

For various reasons, the people that elected Biden in the first place are slowly abandoning him, according to polls.

Why does everyone keep going to this and ignoring actual election results we have from the other week where Republicans got smoked?

Yea Biden fucking sucks and a lot of dems disapprove of him but Trump and Roe are going to be on the ballot.

Shadow_Don posted...

Why does everyone keep going to this and ignoring actual election results we have from the other week where Republicans got smoked?

Yea Biden fucking sucks and a lot of dems disapprove of him but Trump and Roe are going to be on the ballot.

Biden wasn't on the ballot last week. Or at the midterms.

Forty_Niners posted...

Biden wasn't on the ballot last week. Or at the midterms.

Ok and? Do you think the people who voted against Republicans aren't going to vote in 2024 or are they going to switch to trump?

Shadow_Don posted...

Ok and? Do you think the people who voted against Republicans aren't going to vote in 2024 or are they going to switch to trump?

That's what polls are indicating, yes.

Forty_Niners posted...

That's what polls are indicating, yes.

That is not what polls are indicating.

divot1338 posted...

That is not what polls are indicating.

What do you call polls that show all Republicans beating Biden then?

Forty_Niners posted...

What do you call polls that show all Republicans beating Biden then?

What do you call the last 4 major elections where Republicans got smoked and the exit polls radically disagreed with the pre-election polls?

Shadow_Don posted...

What do you call the last 4 major elections where Republicans got smoked and the exit polls radically disagreed with the pre-election polls?

I don't get what you're trying to say here. Truly.

Forty_Niners posted...

What do you call polls that show all Republicans beating Biden then?

What do you call when 8 of the last 10 polls show Biden winning despite not even have begun campaigning yet.

Theres also the small problem that its too late to get a candidate on the ballot. But do continue with your uninformed nonsense.

divot1338 posted...

What do you call when 8 of the last 10 polls show Biden winning despite not even have begun campaigning yet.

Theres also the small problem that its too late to get a candidate on the ballot. But do continue with your uninformed nonsense.

This is how Hillary lost. Ignoring problems.

Forty_Niners posted...

Biden wasn't on the ballot last week. Or at the midterms.

He was on the ballot in '20. Would you be so kind as to remind me how that turned out?

Forty_Niners posted...

This is how Hillary lost. Ignoring problems.

Wait do polls matter or no? Because the polls showed Hillary winning.

Forty_Niners posted...

I don't get what you're trying to say here. Truly.

That dems have crushed the last 4 elections and have overperformed the polls.

You're out of your mind if you think the average Joe American cares about the Middle East. Let alone simping for Islamic terrorists. Biden is going to maintain the stance of "Hamas must be eradicated" and the average American will simply reply "hell ya"

Forty_Niners posted...

This is how Hillary lost. Ignoring problems.

People aren't, hence why Democrats have been making gains in these elections EVEN when Biden, Harris and Pelosi campaigns for some candidates.

A lot of pragmatic Democrat voters are not doing what they did in 2016 which is trying to convince "terminally online" leftists to vote. The kind of leftists that complain about everything while not actually doing anything to help but then say they won't vote.