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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 12:02:34 PM #1: |
just 5 days after Jim Ryan current former PlayStation CEO visited their studio and partied with them
--- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Muscles 02/27/24 12:07:58 PM #2: |
What dick bags
--- Muscles Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GameReviews 02/27/24 1:35:28 PM #3: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
just 5 days after Jim Ryan current former PlayStation CEO visited their studio and partied with themI saw this in the news and this is terrible. I wonder if AI is to blame. Or corporate greed. Probably both. What does "current former CEO" mean? --- Sign here. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 1:37:18 PM #4: |
ai is not even on the list of things that can be blamed lmfao
--- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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faramir77 02/27/24 1:42:09 PM #5: |
If anything they need MORE people working for them. The PS5 has been pathetic, more games need to be developed. It doesn't help that they announced that the PS5 is in the end half of its lifetime despite the fact that literally everybody feels like this generation has hardly even started. They're clueless if they think anyone will buy a PS6 after how sad this generation was.
--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk -- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. -- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GameReviews 02/27/24 1:42:15 PM #6: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
ai is not even on the list of things that can be blamed lmfao"AI game generators are redefining game development by automating the creation of game elements like characters, environments, and storylines." You really don't see how this could be a contributing factor to, say, a large, greedy multibillion dollar company laying off 900 employees suddenly to cut costs and increase profit margins? You seem a bit confused, Torchic. --- Sign here. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/27/24 1:46:34 PM #7: |
GameReviews posted...
"AI game generators are redefining game development by automating the creation of game elements like characters, environments, and storylines."Yup. Dumb company: Use AI to reduce costs Smart company: Use AI to increase production We are seeing the part of the capitalism cycle where the big companies fail after so many cuts for quick profit. A new crop of companies is forming. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 1:51:12 PM #8: |
GameReviews posted...
"AI game generators are redefining game development by automating the creation of game elements like characters, environments, and storylines." given that ai isn't involved anywhere in this situation, no, it wouldn't be a contributing factor. we already know that playstation itself is going through a very rough time, what with the ceo getting fired, the cancellation of a dozen or more live service titles, failure to meet sales expectations for everything across the board, and lack of first party titles for at least a year and a half. moreover the massive data leak from insomniac shows that playstation had been planning layoffs and a studio closure for quite some time because they aren't recouping costs anywhere. --- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/27/24 1:56:01 PM #9: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
given that ai isn't involved anywhere in this situation, no, it wouldn't be a contributing factor.All live service games fail these days. So a good choice to cancel them. They are guaranteed money pits. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 1:57:53 PM #10: |
helldivers 2 doesn't appear to be failing any time soon, and palworld is absolutely crushing it
--- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/27/24 2:10:48 PM #11: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
helldivers 2 doesn't appear to be failing any time soon, and palworld is absolutely crushing itI can't speak to helldivers, But palworld has already slowed down. If it was a live service game it would be debating getting killed off now. Down to 282,000 players. Still a lot sure, but not the big times anymore. But you're right, I should amend my comment to say, AAA live service games. Let's hope helldivers in the exception. But if it's to be a live service game, honestly I hope it fails. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ParanoidObsessive 02/27/24 3:11:40 PM #12: |
This is obviously the fault of everyone who made fun of Morbius and Madame Web online.
Sony loses money, Sony has to cut jobs. It's the Circle of Life. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MeatiestMeatus 02/27/24 3:20:49 PM #13: |
ParanoidObsessive posted...
This is obviously the fault of everyone who made fun of Madame Web https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/be034414.jpg --- If you rise up to heaven I'll turn the sun to blind you If you sleep deep in hell I have chains to bind you ... Copied to Clipboard!
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agesboy 02/27/24 3:28:14 PM #14: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
helldivers 2 doesn't appear to be failing any time soon, and palworld is absolutely crushing itneither of those are live service games wtf the palworld devs specifically said its fine to just stop playing their game because games aren't meant to be played forever. that is the exact opposite mantra of a live service game --- https://imgur.com/LabbRyN raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 6:09:13 PM #15: |
it's still a live service at its core, palworld is, even if they haven't done the live service stuff yet because they focused on bugs
helldiver's 2 is straight up a pay 2 win live service game --- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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agesboy 02/27/24 6:50:18 PM #16: |
I'm not sure you understand what the concept of a live service game is
--- https://imgur.com/LabbRyN raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 7:08:55 PM #17: |
what makes you think helldivers isn't a live service game
--- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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agesboy 02/27/24 7:25:13 PM #18: |
what makes you think palworld is a live service game
(thats the one i own and have played) --- https://imgur.com/LabbRyN raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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jsb0714 02/27/24 8:02:04 PM #19: |
It's like Sony's recent rash of terrible decisions has come back to haunt them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 8:08:28 PM #20: |
agesboy posted...
what makes you think palworld is a live service game a online multiplayer world with (supposed) ongoing support in the form of new content at a frequent enough pace (baseline minimum being bungies destiny support of once a year ofc) if it's not live service then it's definitely live service adjacent --- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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agesboy 02/27/24 9:11:09 PM #21: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
a online multiplayer world with (supposed) ongoing support in the form of new content at a frequent enough paceso........ any multiplayer game that hasn't been entirely abandoned? --- https://imgur.com/LabbRyN raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MeatiestMeatus 02/27/24 10:16:44 PM #22: |
agesboy posted...
so........ any multiplayer game that hasn't been entirely abandoned?More like any game, single or multiplayer, that gets continuous support over a lengthy post-launch period that goes beyond mere patches, but isn't regimented into full-blown DLC/expansions Both Helldivers and Palworld fit Palworld has planned endgame support and other post-launch content. That's live-service --- If you rise up to heaven I'll turn the sun to blind you If you sleep deep in hell I have chains to bind you ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 10:21:18 PM #23: |
yeah what he said
--- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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agesboy 02/27/24 10:22:45 PM #24: |
MeatiestMeatus posted...
More like any game, single or multiplayer, that gets continuous support over a lengthy post-launch period that goes beyond mere patches, but isn't regimented into full-blown DLC/expansionspalworld hasn't launched yet. it's on version 0.1.5. that's an extremely far cry from version 1.0 --- https://imgur.com/LabbRyN raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ConfusedTorchic 02/27/24 10:48:40 PM #25: |
i think that's a whole different argument if you consider just being able to buy and play the game as having launched, or it needing a specific version number
--- see my gundams here https://imgur.com/a/F7xKM5r updated 2/18/24; mg freedom 2.0 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Kyuubi4269 02/28/24 5:06:59 AM #26: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
It's early access. And yes, live service games are adjacent to betas, they develop half a game, see if people will fund the other half, then if it's not dead by then, start some DLC with that money --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MeatiestMeatus 02/28/24 5:56:07 AM #27: |
ConfusedTorchic posted...
if it's not live service then it's definitely live service adjacentI think of games like Palworld as "live service lite" Also, a game being early access does not negate that it follows the live service model. Particularly when there's multiplayer, as many multiplayer live service games feature early access or betas prior to the full launch --- If you rise up to heaven I'll turn the sun to blind you If you sleep deep in hell I have chains to bind you ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Vampire_Chicken 02/28/24 9:03:01 AM #28: |
Some senior managers, sacking people to slash the wages bill is the only way they know how to manage and they think it's the only thing they need to know.
--- The shadows are marching. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Dikitain 02/28/24 10:00:00 AM #29: |
Vampire_Chicken posted...
Some senior managers, sacking people to slash the wages bill is the only way they know how to manage and they think it's the only thing they need to know.Good management is like a strainer. CEO's shit on you from high, managers strain that shit and only allow some of it to reach the level below them. Repeat until whatever is left hits the employees. Bad management is like a funnel. CEO's shit on you from high, managers funnel it all down to one person until that person is overflowing with shit, and they get replaced with the next shit bag who is dumb enough to sit under them. --- My bookshelf: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/152760030 Comics: https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profile/dikitain ... Copied to Clipboard!
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[deleted] 02/28/24 10:00:54 AM #37: |
[deleted]
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Metalsonic66 02/28/24 10:12:16 AM #30: |
Seems like every company is doing layoffs this year
--- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/28/24 10:34:17 AM #31: |
Metalsonic66 posted...
Seems like every company is doing layoffs this yearMine just announced that they had their first ever loss this year. No layoffs, instead they are investing more to ride the next wave back up. Since the wave always comes. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/28/24 10:37:27 AM #32: |
MeatiestMeatus posted...
Palworld has planned endgame support and other post-launch content. That's live-service That's early access. Certainly, live service games can have early access/beta periods, but to say "we've launched in early access, we're planning to do a bunch more updates before calling the game finished" is not a live service model. That's just early access. Notably, they explicitly are not planning to make a game that's designed for people to play it forever. Live services are designed with the intent of keeping up a continuous supply of content to keep people playing indefinitely, almost always with some kind of recurrent monetization opportunities (whether a subscription fee, microtransactions, DLC/expansions, or a combination of the above) to capitalize on that engagement. If they're not planning to keep adding stuff to keep people playing forever, it's not a live service. Heck, if we say that any game that keeps getting content updates after launch is a live service, arguably that means almost every game is a live service these days, and at that point the term just loses all meaning. SinisterSlay posted... Yup. The problem with increasing production is that there isn't really a shortage of games coming out of any major studio, nor is there a shortage of games coming out in general. Getting more games out can help to capture a greater share of that market, but games already struggle to stand out enough to be successful, and by and large producing more games means compromising on their quality and therefore jeopardizing their chances. Generally speaking, because the market is finite (people can only buy and play so many games), you're going to see better returns by using new tools to produce the same output at lower cost than to produce more output at the same cost. The exact comparison will of course depend on the magnitude of the savings/production increase (saving 1% is obviously worse than selling 100% more), but I'm not surprised that companies are looking more for opportunities to cut corners than to expand. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/28/24 10:46:02 AM #33: |
adjl posted...
The problem with increasing production is that there isn't really a shortage of games coming out of any major studio, nor is there a shortage of games coming out in general. Getting more games out can help to capture a greater share of that market, but games already struggle to stand out enough to be successful, and by and large producing more games means compromising on their quality and therefore jeopardizing their chances.Your thinking the wrong way, its not more games, its higher quality games in the same time, or games made faster. I like most devs now use copilot, and it is a huge code quality improvement. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/28/24 11:05:47 AM #34: |
SinisterSlay posted...
Your thinking the wrong way, its not more games, its higher quality games in the same time, or games made faster. That's more cost saving than increased production. If you can produce the same product in fewer salary hours, you've saved money, and increasing quality is distinct from increasing production (which I tend to interpret as increasing the volume produced). --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/28/24 11:07:12 AM #35: |
adjl posted...
That's more cost saving than increased production. If you can produce the same product in fewer salary hours, you've saved money, and increasing quality is distinct from increasing production (which I tend to interpret as increasing the volume produced).Well less bugs in first release. Less crunch time. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/28/24 11:34:27 AM #36: |
If anything, it'll probably result in more crunch time because the out-of-touch executives who come up with project deadlines that require crunch in the first place will just buy into the hype that AI can shorten development times without actually taking the time to understand how it can do that and what that actually means for project timelines. Crunch (at least the serious cases, occasional overtime is kind of inevitable) happens now because executives don't understand game development and the capabilities of their employees/studios well enough to form realistic expectations for timelines. AI is more likely to make that worse than to fix it.
--- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/28/24 12:10:33 PM #38: |
adjl posted...
If anything, it'll probably result in more crunch time because the out-of-touch executives who come up with project deadlines that require crunch in the first place will just buy into the hype that AI can shorten development times without actually taking the time to understand how it can do that and what that actually means for project timelines. Crunch (at least the serious cases, occasional overtime is kind of inevitable) happens now because executives don't understand game development and the capabilities of their employees/studios well enough to form realistic expectations for timelines. AI is more likely to make that worse than to fix it.Comes back to the smart companies vs dumb companies thing again --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/28/24 12:33:46 PM #39: |
I'd say it applies across the board. If crunch was ever on the table, having AI tools that supposedly speed things up will probably make it worse. In cases where the tools don't make crunch worse, crunch was probably never on the table to begin with. Either way, AI tools aren't likely to impact abusive crunch.
I'm also not sure I'd go with dumb/smart companies so much as companies that do/don't suck. By and large, the "dumb" companies are quite successful and have made/are making tons of money. It's unlikely that that money is sustainable, but they're engineered such that if the bubble does burst, the executives and board members will get their golden parachutes and the only people really suffering for their myopic greed will be the employees. They may have a few high-profile failures as a result of being out of touch with what it takes to actually make a good game (Anthem being one of the more notable recent examples), but generally speaking, they're quite competent when it comes to the overall goal of making a lot of money quickly. They just suck, from our perspective, because we place more value on having good games and not compromising employees' quality of life than on giving shareholders nice returns. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MeatiestMeatus 02/28/24 12:46:27 PM #40: |
adjl posted...
That's early access. Certainly, live service games can have early access/beta periods, but to say "we've launched in early access, we're planning to do a bunch more updates before calling the game finished" is not a live service model. That's just early access.They stated they plan on releasing more content (islands, pals, bosses, tech) and endgame raid bosses. That's live service, not early access: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/2a55ee40.jpg It has released in early access, but the support they've mapped out is live service lite --- If you rise up to heaven I'll turn the sun to blind you If you sleep deep in hell I have chains to bind you ... Copied to Clipboard!
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agesboy 02/28/24 1:27:23 PM #41: |
again, a game having planed updates does not make it live service, lol
a live service game would be monetizing those features and milking out infinite playtime --- https://imgur.com/LabbRyN raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/28/24 1:41:57 PM #42: |
MeatiestMeatus posted...
They stated they plan on releasing more content (islands, pals, bosses, tech) and endgame raid bosses. That's live service, not early access:I think you are confused because in the AAA world, a live service game is an early access game. In the rest of the world, an early access game is the developer looking for community feedback on how to develop the game. Palworld is doing the latter. They have no plans for additional monetization yet. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/28/24 1:59:34 PM #43: |
MeatiestMeatus posted...
They stated they plan on releasing more content (islands, pals, bosses, tech) and endgame raid bosses. That's live service, not early access: Is Stardew Valley a live service? Is Terraria? Was Hades, before they finished releasing all new zones and weapons pre-launch? Live services are a matter of continuous content delivery to keep people playing. Early access is a matter of "the game's not done yet, here's what we're still planning to add." Some other games get long-term support because the devs have new ideas that they want to add, which may bring players back, but aren't really meant to keep people playing continuously. As far as content delivery goes, the lines can blur a bit, especially when it comes to formatting roadmaps, but the primary distinction lies in the motivation: Live services get more content to hold people's interest, and will therefore continue to get new content until the game stops holding enough people's interest to be sustainable. Early access games (and games like Stardew with long-term support) get more content because the devs aren't done yet, and will therefore stop getting new content when the devs run out of things they want to do. Most notably, though, live services are live, meaning they can die. They're based on servers and can therefore eventually stop when the publisher decides to stop hosting them. If a game doesn't meaningfully change when its servers shut down because the game's support is based on a one-time purchase and not ongoing monetization, it's not a live service. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Yellow 02/28/24 2:06:20 PM #44: |
Live service games are an economic model more than they are a game, their entire purpose is to keep you logging in daily and perpetually giving into microtransactions. The only people who like them are greedy shareholders who want to scrape the bottom of the dumpster.
Palworld doesn't even have microtransactions, it's nothing like a live service game, I have no idea what you people are on about. Having a roadmap doesn't make you a live service game. Fortnite is live service, Destiny is live service, Valhiem is not live service, and Minecraft is not live service. --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_Wrt6pNSw ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MeatiestMeatus 02/28/24 2:14:21 PM #45: |
That's why I call it live service lite. They're adding more to the game in the future. That's not early access. Early access is just that: early access to a game that's largely complete but needs quality of life fixes. Monetization or no, Palworld follows a live service model. In addition to QOL fixes, they're adding to the game. Of particular note is the admission that they're adding endgame raid support. That's definitively live service
Suicide Squad is offering a lot of free updates. No Man's Sky offers a lot of free updates once you've paid for the main game. Just because Palworld isn't charging doesn't make it not live service --- If you rise up to heaven I'll turn the sun to blind you If you sleep deep in hell I have chains to bind you ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/28/24 2:24:03 PM #46: |
MeatiestMeatus posted...
That's why I call it live service lite. They're adding more to the game in the future. That's not early access. Early access is just that: early access to a game that's largely complete but needs quality of life fixes. Monetization or no, Palworld follows a live service model. In addition to QOL fixes, they're adding to the game. Of particular note is the admission that they're adding endgame raid support. That's definitively live serviceBut they straight up say the game isn't done and they are still building it and want community involvement. Is in your mind any game getting post launch updates a live service game? And early access just doesn't exist? From the store page https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/05462945.jpg Full text Why Early Access? --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Yellow 02/28/24 2:25:21 PM #47: |
No you're definitely completely diluting the meaning of that word. You're describing every single game that gets free updates.
This is what youtubers did to the word "paradox" --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_Wrt6pNSw ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MeatiestMeatus 02/28/24 2:34:53 PM #48: |
Diluted or not, Palworld is live service lite
Patches and quality of life improvements are all that's added to an early access game. Additional content makes it live service. It's still monetized even if it's "free" because they're charging for the base game --- If you rise up to heaven I'll turn the sun to blind you If you sleep deep in hell I have chains to bind you ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Muscles 02/28/24 2:35:11 PM #49: |
adjl posted...
I'd say it applies across the board. If crunch was ever on the table, having AI tools that supposedly speed things up will probably make it worse. In cases where the tools don't make crunch worse, crunch was probably never on the table to begin with. Either way, AI tools aren't likely to impact abusive crunch.Companies are so short sighted and stupid. They build a house of cards with no foundation and ruin everything when they could build a strong foundation where product/service quality and employee quality is a higher priority than profits. So they are willing to trade away their foundation for a couple record breaking quarters/years and then let their company dwindle away to nothing instead of being smart about it and building up a system that works long term and will make more money overall while also being better for their customers and employees. It's stupid, these guys shouldn't be running a car wash, let alone a multimillion dollar company. --- Muscles Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/28/24 2:39:16 PM #50: |
MeatiestMeatus posted...
Diluted or not, Palworld is live service liteSo you can't read? It's early access. Read what I posted, very very carefully, use your good eye. Early access literally means the game isn't done. They are still building it, new content will be added as they build it. Your definition of "live service light" is so broad it includes every game ever made ever because they all had early alphas and betas. Final Fantasy 6 was a live service light because it got renamed to final fantasy 3, then back to 6 again. And content was added in the PS1 release. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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