Board 8 > Valentine's Day Mafia Day 11: What's love got to do with it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ulti be likehttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/49cdaf13.jpg

Ulti is specifically referring to
"
Hello Mr. Ulti. Just finished Taekwondo classes..

Soo yeah Lopen Flipping town doesn't look good for you. If he Flipped Scum I was 100% locking you town..

So gun to your head who do we go after tomorrow and why shouldn't it be you?
"

UltimaterializerX posted...

I stand corrected on FD. Yeah it's two of Sultan/Justin/Chris, and Chris is mainly rule 1 paranoia.

I literally cannot make a scum case against anyone else. I really did try, too!

UltimaterializerX posted...

I'll laugh my ass off if it really is Dumey btw. I could maaaaaybe see it based on some weirdness in our chat.

Is it actually possible we just caught all 3 on day one because town was more excited about the game mechanics than they were?

UltimaterializerX posted...

....wow

Dumey really does have me fooled and we really did get all 3 day one, huh

These were Ulti's last posts until he came back to date Isquen, at which point he said

For game integrity reasons, Sultan should be the odd man out today. My PoE is also firmly Justin, Sultan, and FD. The possibility of FD being scum means we shouldnt be allowing him to decide everyone elses pairings. Im also willing to remove Chris from the PoE, on the logic of if hes scum we just kill the host.

Um, what happened here?

To which ulti responded
Honestly Id get going after me, but towns in mylo when you do

I was 100% serious about Dumey using me as bait on day 2 is the actual reason. I *wanted* him to flip me vanilla since scum was very likely already paired.

And my read was legit. Thats exactly how Lopen played kingmaker. But with his flip we know scum wanted him alive to keep sabotaging the town. So the answer is in people that tried dating him today.

He also went from

UltimaterializerX posted...

It would make sense, given scum needs something nasty to even out 3 vs 12.

in regards to Godfather Prosty to

UltimaterializerX posted...

Yes I think Chris is town. If hes scum, then we lost to a dumb role. Who cares.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

And my read was legit. Thats exactly how Lopen played kingmaker. But with his flip we know scum wanted him alive to keep sabotaging the town. So the answer is in people that tried dating him today.

...Isquen tried to break up with me so I could save Lopen >_>

MZero posted...

...Isquen tried to break up with me so I could save Lopen >_>

Yeah..

Not to mention like I said earlier.

He said scum was trying to keep Lopen alive.

So he obviously dates the one who was trying to keep him alive

And thinks the one who picked to save dumey over lopen is scum

It all tracks >.>

(Am I using that face right?)

UltimaterializerX posted...

. The possibility of FD being scum means we shouldnt be allowing him to decide everyone elses pairings.

I literally do not care which of you 4 dies today. Pick a card, any card. The reason it's a mathematical plan is because it guarantees any 2 of you cannot possibly survive as scum.

I also have very clearly left it to OTHER people to decide today's pairings, though Kirby is insisting that I have a more active role in deciding today's affairs. I don't see what that's necessary, but I also don't think it matters, because the logic should hold true regardless.

Once again, you are completely full of it.

MZero posted...

He also went from

in regards to Godfather Prosty to

Dont forget Justin is definitely town inexplicably to Justin is pure scum overnight

Ulti is flipping more than mhiya iman lepaige right now

https://youtu.be/E3Y3QjiXryA?si=Bbr2C82eFmmIc2Mc&t=75s

the timestamp didnt work but it was off anyways, try 1:12

I got immediately busy with work so I was hoping someone else would explain to ulti why having 1 scum remaining in a game that explicitly states we started with 3 scum is not viable.

Also when he accepted ISquen's date request he said "about damn time!". I guess that's in reference to his attempts to date isquen on day 2 to save him from a day 2 lynch. And now he's still just willing to push Isquen an extra day forward regardless of anything happening in the game?

But if Isquen and Ulti don't budge we're at an impasse until tomorrow.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

He said scum was trying to keep Lopen alive.

Someone else said that, not me, but good try.

Hmm.

MZero, in the forever war of Ulti accusing people of always going after him as scum, you've said in the past that you have a pretty successful record going after him, right?

Can you point me to a game where you successfully caught him on inconsistencies like this?

For full transparency, my perception of Ulti is that you can't really catch him on inconsistent logic, but instead on his motivations. Going to be honest and say I feel like I can easily see stubborn town Ulti motivations for a lot of his actions this game, and wondering if you driving into him is scummy.

To be fair, you also pressured Sultan on his inconsistencies in a similar way. I just wonder if your history with Ulti supports this as town MZero versus Scum Ulti.

Isquen posted...

Someone else said that, not me, but good try.

Yeah Ulti did in our chat.

I never said you said that?

Actually I see where you'd get that. I was responding to mzero responding to me

EDumey posted...

my perception of Ulti is that you can't really catch him on inconsistent logic, but instead on his motivations

And his motivations have felt sus from day 1.

Taking a free date with red and holding it forever.

Trying to do the same day 2 with Isquen.

Trying to do the same day 3 with Kirby/Sultan.

Trying to do the same day 4 with Isquen (again).

The ONLY thing he has going for him in terms of seeming more town motivated was putting the power in your hands to kill him day 2. But that can be explained as a risk taken by an already outnumbered scum team OR just a hard read that you would never actually drop him to save a Lea who was not showing much willingness to live and play on.

You take away that gambit and what does ulti have going for him?

Anyways if Ulti and Isquen stay together they are just ensuring that one of them dies tomorrow. All we can do in that case is lynch someone else today and hope there is only 1 scum in that pair and we still have a chance to hit the other.

But I have a feeling we're going to get to tomorrow and someone else will break ranks and the whole plan is just going to be a giant screw me for trying.

EDumey posted...

MZero, in the forever war of Ulti accusing people of always going after him as scum, you've said in the past that you have a pretty successful record going after him, right?

I think that was Lopen. I don't think I'm that great at reading Ulti

I do think his motivations seem pretty shady though

Forceful_Dragon posted...

And his motivations have felt sus from day 1.

Taking a free date with red and holding it forever.

Trying to do the same day 2 with Isquen.

Trying to do the same day 3 with Kirby/Sultan.

Trying to do the same day 4 with Isquen (again).

The ONLY thing he has going for him in terms of seeming more town motivated was putting the power in your hands to kill him day 2. But that can be explained as a risk taken by an already outnumbered scum team OR just a hard read that you would never actually drop him to save a Lea who was not showing much willingness to live and play on.

You take away that gambit and what does ulti have going for him?

He's also heavily pushed mislynches the past two days

Forceful_Dragon posted...

And his motivations have felt sus from day 1.

Taking a free date with red and holding it forever.

Trying to do the same day 2 with Isquen.

Trying to do the same day 3 with Kirby/Sultan.

Trying to do the same day 4 with Isquen (again).

The ONLY thing he has going for him in terms of seeming more town motivated was putting the power in your hands to kill him day 2. But that can be explained as a risk taken by an already outnumbered scum team OR just a hard read that you would never actually drop him to save a Lea who was not showing much willingness to live and play on.

You take away that gambit and what does ulti have going for him?

Ulti with an outspoken appreciation for the power to effectively veto a lynch.

I'm not endorsing his decision making. I am just trying to separate whether his actions are actually alignment indicative.

He said it himself that his plan to save Isquen D2 was set up from before the game even began. Before the game even began, Ulti was already showing interest in abusing this games mechanics. Give a man the ultimate power to disrupt a lynch, and he does it.

Ulti disrespects D1 a lot on principle. I entered the game thinking Red, Ulti, and Corrik all might do exactly what Red did.

D2 Ulti was denied his Isquen love angle, and opted to do something fun with me instead.

D3 and D4 he has stubbornly announced his intent to protect people he thinks is town. And if he's doing it to scum, he's bad. But I kind of think Ulti could just see it as using the format's mechanics in a way that other players aren't willing to. Hard staking players based on his soul reads.

That is where the inconsistencies of him flip flopping on Sultan so much are more damning, by the way. Announcing that Sultan is hard off the table D3 when we clearly see he never really held that conviction.

I'm not really intending to do a hard defense of Ulti here (though that's certainly what it looks like), but I do want to examine the MZero/Ulti interaction like this because I COULD see town Ulti motivations in these actions.

Even with Chris being in a mood, scum have gone for the claimed cops instead of roleblocking, despite him being a cleared silver-tongued godfather prosty (respectfully.) So Chris is 90% fine, 10% covering for a partner by going for the cops.

I said it day 2 - I can never tell when Kirby is extremely insistent loud town wrong or actually scum, and it's easy to pressure him if you can threaten a noose, but this format means it's impossible to actually pressure scum if everyone is as vanilla as they claim, so if he is scum he's not going to buckle. I am, however, still thrown by him not mentioning Corrik's chat at all until immediately after I had pointed it out, nearly three hours after start of day.

Lopen wanted me to look more into JC, since he was acting basically like Lea, but there still never feels like enough info with him.

Sultan is weird, keeps taking umbrage to the least relevant comments and then derailing conversations for part of a page. If he somehow slips under the radar today, he should probably go.

FD has been staring at Excel blocks for so long he has had his head's shape melded into one, and doesn't ever provide any discourse beyond "here's the tracking sheet" unless he's parroting someone.

Ulti - Gregarious as usual, but not checked out or wildly inconsistent. This leads me to believe power, since he gets town-torpedoingly bored with vanilla, but not strong power.

MZero - focused on the game way more than his usual self, but I'm feeling town. Umbrage in personal chat at everyone bitching about his unavailability felt real, and damn do I sympathize with that.

Dumey - has looked scummy since day 1 but hell if I can convince any of you at this point with the blinders on, since my biggest town reads are trying to clear him whereas everyone dead has given him the psychic stink eye.

Isquen posted...

Sultan is weird, keeps taking umbrage to the least relevant comments and then derailing conversations for part of a page. If he somehow slips under the radar today, he should probably go.

What do you consider least relevant? I've been pushing how ulti has been contradictory to himself. How is that not relevant.

If you're saying I'm scum I want more than

SULTAN IS WEIRD.

ME BEING A WEIRDO IS NOT alignment based it's who I am!

Isquen posted...

Ulti - Gregarious as usual, but not checked out or wildly inconsistent. This leads me to believe power, since he gets town-torpedoingly bored with vanilla, but not strong power.

Um have tou read anything he posted today or anything I copied from our chat he is not what you're claiming here...

Isquen posted...

Dumey - has looked scummy since day 1 but hell if I can convince any of you at this point with the blinders on, since my biggest town reads are trying to clear him whereas everyone dead has given him the psychic stink eye.

Push this read if you think it's true. Provide more of what looked scummy since day 1?

Isquen posted...

I am, however, still thrown by him not mentioning Corrik's chat at all until immediately after I had pointed it out, nearly three hours after start of day.

If there was something of substance, I would've mentioned it. Or are you going to conveniently ignore all of quoting I did of Red on Day 2? Red gave me perspectives to work with going into Day 3, which I mentioned as supporting evidence to my thought processes very early into that day.

Corrik, by contrast, said he had absolutely zero clue about scum reads because town is so suicidal. He also convinced me that he wasn't actually Deputy. So there really was no point distracting you guys with unimportant info.

Where has this Sultan been all game

Honestly while this format is cool and I wouldn't mind seeing it return, I think I prefer pushing for votes.

EDumey posted...

Honestly while this format is cool and I wouldn't mind seeing it return, I think I prefer pushing for votes.

I have another experimental idea based on B8 Rumble that we used to do.

Each person starts with 5 hp.
And depending on how many people are in the game they get hurts. Like

Example day 1 everyone gets 2 hurts and the first person to hit 0 is voted out.

Idk I'd have to play with the idea a bit more

Anyway it looks like Ulti and Isquen aren't going to break ups...

I guess one thing to consider if we have to evaluate Ulti from a motivation perspective... why would he try to save Isquen? Could be that by invoking his bold personality and crazy antics, he's expecting us to flinch and think he's town when he is actually scum and would get wiped by FD's plan.

Either way, not like we can do much about Ulti's power tripping, so now we have to decide between lynching Sultan and MZero. And I'm leaning Sultan

Kirby you still stuck on paring mechanics as why you don't like me?

You escaped yesterday and still litterally wanted to kill your town reads to clear other town reads I think lopen was right about you. How you aren't up for consideration is a bit baffling to me.

You also pair with Ulti quite well in a world Veiw

It's oddly to quite.... scum is comfortable right now and it shows

Kirby321 posted...

Could be that by invoking his bold personality and crazy antics, he's expecting us to flinch and think he's town when he is actually scum and would get wiped by FD's plan.

to be honest I expected scum would want to appear willing to go along with the plan to try and dodge the noose today, and then speak out loudly against the plan tomorrow to try and prevent it from resolving then.

But perhaps the threat of logical defeat was enough to spook them entirely.

Kind of mulling it over in my head at work. I feel fairly confident in saying MZero isn't scum with Sultan or Ulti.

MZero has four notable things this game in my memory.

1. Got targeted a little D1 for no real reason. Just a little pressure from Ulti and Chris, but it made me lean town on him at the time.
2. Continued conversation about playing around his schedule.
3. He pushed Sultan for inconsistency
4. He pushed Ulti for inconsistency.

It seems like today we can test one side of this or the other. If we lynch MZero and he's scum, I would confidently push back Sultan and Ulti as targeted Townies and look for another answer. Sultan and Ulti are on everyone's PoE, and are exactly who I would expect Scum to push if they were looking for a mislynch. Or we lynch Sultan, as we have been trying to for days now, with almost everyone in the game pointing shifty eyes at him. And if he comes up scum, I'd be willing to give MZero a pass to look elsewhere.

What do you guys think? Do you see MZero as scum and bussing his partner here as one of his two primary lynch candidates? Or has his play been consistent enough from the start that it looks like they are opposite alignments?

Why do you have Kirby as town? Why does anyone have Kirby as town. He has skated bye and has avoided dying multiple times. I feel like people are blidly just ignoring kirby and what is on the tabIe agaisnt kirby. Ineed answers beacuse lopen was 100% right about everything he said about Kirby. I laid out the same argument or a very similar argument lopen did on Kirby.

People have been looking at me for my slow start to the game and and daring mechanics. The last two days after my blow up i have been working my ass off providing reads and interacting with everyone!

Ask me questions get me to change your reads on me. I'm here. Me being at the bottom is scum plan and that is why the thread is so fucking quite. They probably have town town in the bottom right now and sitting pretty.

I'm sure it is Ulti. Isquen idk if he is or not

It leaves me at Kirby/ulti or we really fucked up.

Honestly if I was Mzero I'd maybe date me and throw the ball back at the "Top people side.

I'm not going to extend Mzero a date offer atm but honestly us dating might force the game to talk...

MZero already said he won't date you Sultan. And if you did do try and force the lynch to be outside of our four primary PoE players, I would lose all charitability, stop looking anywhere else, and truly only tunnel you. You KNOW it's a bad play to do it, so you only serve to lose more credibility.

It's quiet because we killed Lopen and it's 2PM EST on a work day. That's it. And actually look at the amount of players providing thoughts through the day. Outside of Chris and JC, we have a pretty high participation rate across everyone.

I don't know if you're panicking or what, but the ideas you've sprouted about me trying to control the thread before, and now that the game is too slow, feel like you're just lashing out wherever you can.

I HAVE considered Kirby. I think there is a world where exactly Kirby/Ulti makes sense as the scum team. I'd like yo test Ulti for that theory, but he's made himself quite unavailable, and I'm not willing to lynch Kirby on a 1/9 situation when he doesn't really make sense as scum with any other partner to me.

EDumey posted...

MZero already said he won't date you Sultan. And if you did do try and force the lynch to be outside of our four primary PoE players, I would lose all charitability, stop looking anywhere else, and truly only tunnel you. You KNOW it's a bad play to do it, so you only serve to lose more credibility.

Thats why I haven't done it but Kirby is getting a free fucking pass for no reason.

I'm not panicking but I know we are going to have a mislynch today based off of how thread is going.

And you didn't answer me why is Kirby town?

Because of how he's acted in and around end of day situations. Always willing to put himself at risk. Even tilted out if his mind D2, still saved the cop he was tilted at because he knew it was the right thing to do. Kirby was not in every final 3 because he's incapable of finding a date. He's there because he was playing his vanilla role properly and putting himself at risk to pressure claims. Not something that you can say for yourself, can you?

And dumey you amd FD are trying to control everything I know the 4 poe made sense at the time but kind fuck that idea now beacuse its dead. Ulti and Isquen already broke that and honestly it's not great when people are juat going to slide though the cracks and get off scott free. Honestly. Best way to do it now would be just let Chris decide who dies out of who is left beacuse basically the other ideas are lacking now.

And I said if Mzero and I'd date it open up discussion outside of just 4 people. Town has gotten lazy and it shows or scum is just sitting pretty.

Am I wrong?

EDumey posted...

Because of how he's acted in and around end of day situations. Always willing to put himself at risk. Even tilted out if his mind D2, still saved the cop he was tilted at because he knew it was the right thing to do. Kirby was not in every final 3 because he's incapable of finding a date. He's there because he was playing his vanilla role properly and putting himself at risk to pressure claims. Not something that you can say for yourself, can you?

How he acted around end of day situations?! He didn't care who died as long as it wasn't him that's a terrible argument in favor of Kirby tbh.

He was their beacuse he was suspected by basically every person dead like Isquen pointed out ealier..

Uh didn't he forget Corrik existed until I said something....

You got blinders on go reread Kirby it will change your mind or it should.
I

Kirby saved cop beacuse he had no othe option...

@SirChris

Come talk to this game and decide who dies please.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

honestly it's not great when people are juat going to slide though the cracks and get off scott free.

LIKE YOU, YOU MEAN?

Sultan. Read the damn game. People break up and change things ALL the time! We can talk to Isquen and Ulti to convince them to break up, but we have to build a compelling case to do so! We have 48 hours for a reason, to explore in different directions! You are projecting your fantasy on the game, when 7/9 players have been ACTIVELY participating today! You are panicking because it's slow in the middle of a weekday. We get through the entire night and it never picks up again, then sure let's talk about it. Until then, if you want to pursue Kirby. Then post arguments about Kirby. Don't just ride on Lopen's coattails. Trying to evoke Lopens name when he spent the last portion of the day claiming Corrik was scum isn't going to do you any favors unless you can clearly communicate the actual arguments.

I laid out an argument yesterday that you apparently didn't read.

And I laugh you think them 2 are going to break up...