Board 8 > FFVII Rebirth SPOILERS AHOY

(+) Yeah! (+)

People who think game 3 is going to be dramatically different are probably kidding themselves. Remake mostly adhered to the original, with some sequences added. Rebirth mostly adheres to the original, with some sequences added. R3 is going to mostly adhere to the original, with some sequences added.

Kotetsu534 posted...

That said I wouldn't totally write off the profitability/value of a game like this with a straight revenue less costs assessment after a month. Huge releases like this also pave the way to support a boatload of other content (mobile games/spin-offs/merch etc... heck I've just spent the game's price again buying a concert ticket to listen to some of the OST performed!) and generate a long tail of word of mouth and sales running way into the future.

Also helps previous games in the series sell more - I've seen a lot of people buying/playing Remake 1 recently! Plus, it's worth noting that even if this sells less than Remake, it's a $70 game instead of $60, so each sale is worth more.

Platinum done. Wow Sephiroth's challenge was an absolute cakewalk compared to Zack's. Great game. Now to wait for the finale whenever that is

MacArrowny posted...

Also helps previous games in the series sell more - I've seen a lot of people buying/playing Remake 1 recently! Plus, it's worth noting that even if this sells less than Remake, it's a $70 game instead of $60, so each sale is worth more.

Yep - this whole series will have strong legs, especially if Game 3 is comparably well received to Game 2. Not hard at all to see FFVR3 being an early major release for the next console generation coming with a triple pack release to try to bring in new players. More interesting question is what else Square do now - e.g. whether they want to remake other games, and if so in what way as they won't be doing 3-part remakes of VI/VIII/IX/X I'm sure, or just focus on new releases, or more FFVII spin-offs or w/e. Whether they feel they can commit to aiming at their western audience in bigger games (arguably some of the VA and directing choices in this game suggested more comfort with western expectations than Japanese audiences/anime than in Remake - e.g. far fewer "anime grunts").

Pirateking2000 posted...

Platinum done. Wow Sephiroth's challenge was an absolute cakewalk compared to Zack's. Great game. Now to wait for the finale whenever that is

Well done. I'd guess most of us will be here around 2029 chatting about part 3, if GameFAQs lives that long.

I bet it comes out 2027

most of the world's already made. they'll follow tears of the kingdom's lead and keep the map the same, add wutai and a northern continent and change up the chadley stuff. IF they decide to make the game as big as this one, which again I'm not so sure they even do considering dev costs.

Pirateking2000 posted...

FF7 players:
https://youtu.be/t478uHgasII?feature=shared

Me at that ending too

colliding posted...

I bet it comes out 2027

most of the world's already made. they'll follow tears of the kingdom's lead and keep the map the same, add wutai and a northern continent and change up the chadley stuff. IF they decide to make the game as big as this one, which again I'm not so sure they even do considering dev costs.

I dunno, Rebirth had some major changes from Remake. I'd be a little disappointed if R3 doesn't make major changes to the format, though I wouldn't be that surprised.

There are quite a few new areas too, aren't there? Underwater, Rocket Town, Wutai, Wutai, Mideel, Northern Continent. Along with the optional areas. Not to mention the return to Midgar.

I wonder if the Weapons will get whole sidequest chains associated with them.

colliding posted...

I was expecting this game to go way more off the rails, so that part 3 would be basically an all-new game with a few references to the original. But the game actually adhered to the source material way more than I thought it would.

Along this vein, I've thought for awhile it would take three parts to complete FF7's OG-story but there may be enough threads from the new elements in these new games as well as other FF7-related releases that we might get a fourth and final part that is largely brand new...like post-game after-the-main-plot gameplay and story but put together like a new and final conclusion to the overall story they're telling now.

No, I don't know what that looks like exactly.

HaRRicH posted...

No, I don't know what that looks like exactly.

Smells like Dirge to me.

Already introduced them in Intermission!

I was thinking they might do a 4th game to fix Advent Children honestly but the sales probably aren't justifying that so far.

Reminder that the original game ended in an inconclusive way re: fate of humanity, at least until Advent Children came out. So I wouldnt be surprised if part 3 ends the same way the original game did (lifestream vs meteor, Red 500 yrs later), but I just hope for a narratively-satisfying conclusion to this, damn... you can wrap things up KH3-style while leaving the door/some plotlines open for a 4th part, be it AC or DoC or something new.

MacArrowny posted...

There are quite a few new areas too, aren't there? Underwater, Rocket Town, Wutai, Wutai, Mideel, Northern Continent. Along with the optional areas. Not to mention the return to Midgar.

I wonder if the Weapons will get whole sidequest chains associated with them.

Yeah if they stick with world intel and wanted all-new zones then Icicle Inn, Wutai, Mideel, Rocket Town would cover 4. Rocket Town would be the weakest though, like Gongaga... also I hadn't considered Underwater but they could do something like "Meridian Ocean" in this go-around as connecting points for the underwater items to cover.

Weapon questlines makes sense, Ultimate Weapon flying around the world also could make his multiregional. I was thinking 1 weapon per region (like the summons) but that just doesnt fit thematically, unless they want to rearrange who's where & also introduce a bunch more.

I would take a 2027 release for sure, but I'm still expecting 2028.

BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Gongaga > Junon > Grasslands > Corel > Nibel > Cosmo Canyon

Year of Cissnei let's goo

Year of Cissnei where? SMFFFC? plz no my heart cannot bear it...

Hoping that the Midgar 7th Infantry dudes show up again, have them be the crew of the airship or something.

Nibel is the best region just because of the amazing chocobo.

2028 is my guess for R3. 2027 is theoretically possible, but it feels unlikely.

How many Weapons were there in the original? I feel like there were a couple we didn't fight.

Murphiroth posted...

Hoping that the Midgar 7th Infantry dudes show up again, have them be the crew of the airship or something.

oh god this would be amazing

Murphiroth posted...

Hoping that the Midgar 7th Infantry dudes show up again, have them be the crew of the airship or something.

100%. I absolutely adore this whole section.

God I loved the middle chunk of the game sooooo much ughhhhhhhhhhhh.

Midgar 7th infantry showing in the raid on Midgar feels like a likely outcome? But if they're still stationed in Junon they could be part of the escape sequence, though their loyalty is to Cloud who isnt around then so I'm thinking just Raid on Midgar for them...

Original game had 5 weapons, Emerald Ruby Ultimate were optional (and brief Ultimate storyline fight), Diamond regular boss. "Sapphire" (unnamed in game) is the 5th but you dont fight it.

Nibel chocobo really is the greatest, oh man. Wayyyy to much joy just cruising around on a stream of water. Jade in Before Crisis and Omega in DoC but wouldnt expect either to appear. So yeah, opportunity for new Weapons... picturing one emerging from the lava in the Da Chao statue, mmmm!

Nibel was the only region I actively enjoyed exploring because of how good the chocobo was.

It's almost a crime that the rest of them are nowhere near as fun. They all should have at least a soft glide function for easy descent from cliffs.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

100%. I absolutely adore this whole section.

God I loved the middle chunk of the game sooooo much ughhhhhhhhhhhh.

They really need to. Arguably the best section of the game for me. Its kind of funny how in both games it sorta shows how Cloud would have been better off as a regular trooper like ignoring the stuff that went down obviously. That guy who recognized him in Rebirth seemed to like him and he won the hearts of the 7th Infantry by accident lol. Even in the side quest the Captain figured out who the gang actually are and just lets em go.

CassandraCain posted...

They all should have at least a soft glide function for easy descent from cliffs.

The exploration is clearly built around not being able to descend like that. They'd have to redesign everywhere.

Can we talk about how wild it is that this game made me feel just as bad (if not more so) about Aerith "dying" this time as it did the first time?

Honestly the main narrative is a storytelling masterclass aside from maybe Cosmo and Nibel, which feels like a slight dip.

The first half of the Nibel chapter is excellent and one of the game's high points. Even setting aside the new role of the town, the climb up Nibel to the reactor is one of the few times Cloud and Tifa are together for a significant period (more or less) on their own. The way Tifa handles Cloud's (partial) memories of Zack is good characterisation. Also has a rare occasion where Yuffie's naivety/unworldliness gets challenged in a somewhat more serious way re who Murasaki may be (and where Cloud also tells her to shut up...). While it seems like the Wutai/Midgar war thread is not going to be pursued in a big way, it seemed like a compelling edition at the time. Aerith being (implicitly) a bit jealous of Cloud's and Tifa's memories of their childhood together was a different side of her character too which I quite liked because a bit of imperfection is more interesting.

Unfortunately they rather did Shinra Manor dirty and it also has the worst section in the game to play. I love Cait as a character but I would quite happily never play his solo section with added janky throwing mini-game ever again. I'd say the manor and Forgotten Capital got by far the worst representations in Rebirth, which is a shame because they shouldn't have been that difficult to do well compared to big areas like Cosmo Canyon or the Saucer.

The start of part 3 for this is going to be funny. Everyone's depressed but Cloud's like "Fuck yeah snowboarding!"

Kotetsu534 posted...

Aerith being (implicitly) a bit jealous of Cloud's and Tifa's memories of their childhood together was a different side of her character too which I quite liked because a bit of imperfection is more interesting.

This is a good point. Aerith actually expressing a complex and real human emotion was really strong characterization.

Definitely agreed on Shinra manor even though I enjoyed the Cait Sith stuff. It's just a bit lacking compared to the original. I would imagine some Vincent stans are unhappy with his introduction here but I thought it was mostly fine

A video is up with some insight from the developers on what they were thinking about when designing the game's locations. Pretty high level but interesting enough, especially Kitase talking about the balance between exploration and knuckling down on the main story & how they identified the most important things to recreate in Nibel, Cosmo and the Gold Saucer. By the looks of it this is the first of a series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aHRNjccJE8

colliding posted...

I would imagine some Vincent stans are unhappy with his introduction here but I thought it was mostly fine

during a stretch of the game where I was really bummed out, I thought Vincent's intro was the best part!

Kotetsu534 posted...

While it seems like the Wutai/Midgar war thread is not going to be pursued in a big way,

huh?

I mean the war will no doubt happen, but if it's essentially downstream of Sephiroth (or Jenova) machinations to factilitate his ends then it isn't really going to form a distinct story arc from the main narrative. At that point in the game it sounded like it was an independent action being pursued for Wutai's (or Shinra's) own interests. Could still be like that of course, but that wasn't what I took from the ending scene with Rufus.

Red's date: "we'd be better off forgetting the whispers ever existed"

lol

can anyone confirm does any of aerith's dialog to cloud in chapter 14 change depending on the date/relationships in general? it felt to me when i was watching it like it was full of the context of 'but you prefer tifa', but i think the way it's written just let me infer that

I can now rest.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/473f3915.jpghttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6a7e0fa4.png

Man what a fucking game this was! It definitely had a lot of ups and downs, but the highs were some of the best I've ever experienced. It was so damn long, but I was never bored or anything because of how dense it was with shit to do. I think my clock was around 115 hours by the end. The ending was about what I expected after Remake's but I was definitely confused around Aerith's "death" or lack thereof? But love reading theories about how it all makes sense, like that image that was shared earlier so I'm totally down for the craziness. I just hope it all makes sense by the end.

One of my bigger questions though is about Glenn Lodbrok... Like is he an actual person that exists? Or is he purely just a creation of Sephiroth to fuck around with Rufus for funsies? That was left very unclear. Though I did figure pretty early on that there was no actual leader of the SRC.

Anyway I literally just finished it and my thoughts are all over the place. Will probably be back to share more scattered thoughts later.

MartinFF7 posted...

oh I should've posted my spoiler thoughts in here instead of a giant block of spoiler text in the other topic.... would feel bad to copy and paste it

Kinda wish you had, since that topic is gone now

UberPyro64 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euPgi8zOWnk

Oops I accidentally watched this whole thing lol

Waluigi1 posted...

One of my bigger questions though is about Glenn Lodbrok... Like is he an actual person that exists? Or is he purely just a creation of Sephiroth to fuck around with Rufus for funsies? That was left very unclear. Though I did figure pretty early on that there was no actual leader of the SRC.

First time I saw this dude I was like "oh that's Cloud's dad"

Next time I saw this dude I was like "oh that's Cloud himself from an alternate dimension where he's trying to save Aerith by doing all kinds of weird dimension shenanigans"

Third time I saw this dude I was like "oh that's just a random dude from a side game I didn't play and this means that rufus has Sephy cells"

Apparently though his status as Cloud's estranged papa is debatable

Yeah I saw that there's some voice lines that kinda reference that in a vague way. That'd be super weird to pull in the next game though.

colliding posted...

and this means that rufus has Sephy cells

Nah regular people, like other members of the team, also see Sephiroth in lieu of a robed man (sometimes/when he decides to appear as so) so it's consistent, dont think it implies Rufus has S-cells... though could also explain Rufus's superior battle prowess for a regular human.

Waluigi1 posted...

Kinda wish you had, since that topic is gone now

Basically felt the game was near-perfect and liked it so much (other than Cait Sith sequence) riiight up until Temple of the Ancients. Very weak dungeon let alone final dungeon, then I really hated the final battle sequence too, like it pissed me off so much, every phase of that fight and being forced to fight with team members that didnt have the top tier materia so it was a struggle. and I died to the whisper cannon on top of that, with an Aerith that I hadn't properly outfitted, of course. So the ending just left a bad taste in my mouth, but not enough to override the highs I felt the rest of the way.

I think I mellowed on the final battle sequence since, at least the music is top notch and I'm youtubing it extensively until OST comes out. Hated playable Zack being thrust upon us but the fact he teams up with Cloud was pretty cool. The Aerith entrance scene was pretty great and there's lots of other fun moments intermingled, I gotta admit. I like watching streamers go through it but man, at that time, I was not a fan. Bracing for doing it on hard mode.

Also I got the Red XIII date, would've preferred literally anyone else. I cant remember who I got in chapter 8... the lesson is to not be nice to everybody and do all the sidequests, I guess!!

MartinFF7 posted...

Very weak dungeon let alone final dungeon, then I really hated the final battle sequence too, like it pissed me off so much, every phase of that fight and being forced to fight with team members that didnt have the top tier materia so it was a struggle

I really didn't like that aspect of the final battle, only three characters can really be set up with optimal materia at any given time. So requiring every member of the team for the final battle, while conceptually cool, it still dragged down the quality of the fights.

And I didn't expect Aerith to fight at all for obvious reasons so she didn't have a single materia equipped. I still somehow trudged through and squeezed out a win but it did not feel satisfying at all.

Switching materia around in general was really annoying to me though.

MartinFF7 posted...

Nah regular people, like other members of the team, also see Sephiroth in lieu of a robed man (sometimes/when he decides to appear as so) so it's consistent, dont think it implies Rufus has S-cells... though could also explain Rufus's superior battle prowess for a regular human.

Basically felt the game was near-perfect and liked it so much (other than Cait Sith sequence) riiight up until Temple of the Ancients. Very weak dungeon let alone final dungeon, then I really hated the final battle sequence too, like it pissed me off so much, every phase of that fight and being forced to fight with team members that didnt have the top tier materia so it was a struggle. and I died to the whisper cannon on top of that, with an Aerith that I hadn't properly outfitted, of course. So the ending just left a bad taste in my mouth, but not enough to override the highs I felt the rest of the way.

I think I mellowed on the final battle sequence since, at least the music is top notch and I'm youtubing it extensively until OST comes out. Hated playable Zack being thrust upon us but the fact he teams up with Cloud was pretty cool. The Aerith entrance scene was pretty great and there's lots of other fun moments intermingled, I gotta admit. I like watching streamers go through it but man, at that time, I was not a fan. Bracing for doing it on hard mode.

Also I got the Red XIII date, would've preferred literally anyone else. I cant remember who I got in chapter 8... the lesson is to not be nice to everybody and do all the sidequests, I guess!!

Huh interesting. I pretty much feel the opposite about all that regarding the final dungeon and boss gauntlet lol. I always had my party members pretty evenly geared up since the game had you use them all so frequently. Final dungeon was good, not too annoying in terms of puzzles or layout, but meaty and finale feeling. And I'm a huge sucker for having everybody participate in the final battle so I liked how it switched from group to group all fighting the same entity that exists in all those realities at once. Zack showing up to help Cloud was the hypest shit ever and exactly what I wanted!

CassandraCain posted...

I really didn't like that aspect of the final battle, only three characters can really be set up with optimal materia at any given time. So requiring every member of the team for the final battle, while conceptually cool, it still dragged down the quality of the fights.

I just don't agree. I feel like all of my characters were wrecking shop by the end, I wasn't even trying for optimal builds or anything (played on normal). Liked the final battle having the random feeling of party members thrown into it.

The game also flat out tells you to ensure all your party members are equipped for what's about to go down. I loved the entire finale top to bottom.

For the Jenova fight they give all party members except Cloud free limit breaks. For the Sephiroth fight, with the elemental wings, they force Yuffie on you who just counters it with Elemental Ninjutsu. The final battle, Aerith wrecks the Masamune and stuff with Sorcerous Storm. The game really doesn't expect you to have optimal materia on everyone.

Btw I didn't use it but I swear I saw in some cutscenes between phases, there's a subtle prompt in the bottom left to Hold Square to bring up the main menu before the fight begins. And I do remember using it in Remake, and if it works the same, you should be able to reequip and adjust gear between phases without having to back out completely.

you get 1 menuing chance, after Jenova/before the Zack & Cloud team-up fight starts, you don't get another one after beating Sephiroth Reborn. I guess it's a little bit of a different situation than Remake's final Sephiroth fight (which gave a menuing opportunity), but yeah...

the free limits really didn't amount to much vs. Jenova? And I'm pretty sure my final party vs. Jenova after all the little 2 on 1 battles and flippy shit in the air had Red XIII and Cait Sith both of whom I only ever used when forced to. Or maybe that was for Reborn. In any case, yeah you can say that's user error, they were outfitted with stuff but none of the best materia or armor. I don't remember who had Synergy but I assume it was rotting on the vine somewhere.

Which reminds me, I need to confirm what the mechanics are for the teams in the various phases, specifically if they're always set in stone or if they vary based on relationship percentages and/or date partner... I just need to know who to prioritize for the final Jenova and Sephiroth phases, is all.

And Alexander wept.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f333c403.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f333c403.jpg

Just finished. The timeline stuff was weird but I think it ended up pretty straightforward by the end. The lifestream is a multiverse that only Aerith, Zack, Cloud, Seph can traverse.

I don't fully get where/what Sephiroth actually exists in this game though. The final fight is him, but every other time is just Cloud being puppeted? Or sometimes it's a random zombie guy like when he stabbed Tseng?

Also everything about the black materia confuses me. Everyone spent that whole time going through the temple and fighting for it, and then they decide to just put it back because it's not that important? Why the F did Aerith say it was fake? Why did they just toss it around like a toy?And kept letting Cloud get ahold of it even though it obviously was making him psycho for the last 3 chapters?

And finally I don't get Seph's motivation at all. He didn't actually try to get the black or white materias for himself. Why did he need to kill Aerith? What about the alternate dimension Aerith who survived?

colliding posted...

I expect the third game to be smaller and a little more like Remake.

That would be awesome, but I doubt it. Does the 3rd act of the original have these big areas to explore though? If it's tighter then I could see them going back to R1 format.

Also best parts of this game were anything with Zack. It's so clear how much better his character and story is. That's part of what made Gongaga the best area too (though it was mostly the level design).

I hope the next game is like half or more of new Zack stuff. It's probably going to be called Reunion so it would make sense to relate it to the Crisis Core remake.

I think there will be quite a bit of general disappointment if R3's map/exploration element is substantially scaled back. If anything expectations will be heightened because of the Highwind (and apparently they've given interviews suggesting they are going to focus on it in part 3). They have at least the northern continent, the Wutai continent and Mideel's island chain to work with (plus Rocket Town if they want), setting aside that several locations will be returned to (Junon, Midgar, probably Corel + Saucer and Fort Condor), and they'll want to work in the Weapons and the underwater sub I'm sure.

People will be happy with whatever they're given. There's a ton in this game no one would mourn.

If they make the whole game more like the highwind ocean exploration part, that would be cool.

foolm0r0n posted...

Just finished. The timeline stuff was weird but I think it ended up pretty straightforward by the end. The lifestream is a multiverse that only Aerith, Zack, Cloud, Seph can traverse.

Maybe. I don't think too hard about this stuff because I know it'll probably disappoint in the end anyway. Regardless, I definitely don't buy the whole "Aerith at the end is just Cloud being delusional" idea. It's either an AU Aerith or it's somehow Remake/Rebirth Aerith in a pocket universe or something.

I don't fully get where/what Sephiroth actually exists in this game though. The final fight is him, but every other time is just Cloud being puppeted? Or sometimes it's a random zombie guy like when he stabbed Tseng?

Yeah this has always been confusing even in the OG. I think the "endgame" Sephiroth battles (in both Remake and Rebirth) are what I'm calling "lifestream Sephiroth." This is also the figure that Tifa sees in Chapter 8. In game there's presumably also a Sephiroth that is controlling all the robed figures and is currently chilling in the Northern Crater.

Also everything about the black materia confuses me. Everyone spent that whole time going through the temple and fighting for it, and then they decide to just put it back because it's not that important? Why the F did Aerith say it was fake? Why did they just toss it around like a toy?And kept letting Cloud get ahold of it even though it obviously was making him psycho for the last 3 chapters?

Aerith said it was fake to try and get Cloud to stop being weird about it. They tossed it around like a toy and escaped the Temple because it's a trope. The party at this point is both 1) scared of Cloud and also 2) trusts Cloud very much despite his craziness. They also presumably "need" him for his Leet Soldier skills. Yeah, I know, pretty flimsy but I'll roll with it since it's basically what happens in the original.

And finally I don't get Seph's motivation at all. He didn't actually try to get the black or white materias for himself. Why did he need to kill Aerith? What about the alternate dimension Aerith who survived?

Maybe more later, but also there's a line right after Aerith beefs it about despair being the thing that really causes the worlds to merge. Lifestream Sephy is all about eliminating all other possibilities besides the one where he wins. Killing Aerith was apparently the thing that gets him there. Seph is aware of alternate dimension Aerith (he "underestimated her") so presumably he flew off at the end to do some planning. He doesn't try to get the black materia because that's what Cloud is for.

colliding posted...

Regardless, I definitely don't buy the whole "Aerith at the end is just Cloud being delusional" idea. It's either an AU Aerith or it's somehow Remake/Rebirth Aerith in a pocket universe or something.

Why not just ghost Aeris? We already saw her as a ghost in the original FF7 ending and Advent Children

MacArrowny posted...

Why not just ghost Aeris? We already saw her as a ghost in the original FF7 ending and Advent Children

Because we DO get the scenes of Cloud blocking the sword/Aerith waking up. It could be the devs just messing with us and Cloud seeing things. I think there's more to it.

Cloud only goes crazy in the original as soon as he gets the black materia. I don't think there's any awareness of the party at that point.

Sephiroth killed Aerith to stop her from using Holy. He doesn't need the white materia for anything since it just exists to stop his plans.