Board 8 > What was the biggest leap between gaming console generations?

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Grand_Kirby
03/07/24 5:06:32 PM
#1:


(The examples given in brackets are not meant to be comprehensive, just well known examples to help illustrate the general era).

I would be also be interested in seeing ranking opinions in addition to a general poll, because honestly some of these choices aren't really comparable to others. Do you feel that consoles aren't getting significantly more impressive with generation leaps as they used to be?

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Leonhart4
03/07/24 5:07:25 PM
#2:


Just in terms of perception, it feels like 4th to 5th because of 3D, FMVs, etc.

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Fiop
03/07/24 5:18:42 PM
#3:


Was stuck between 2->3 and 3->4. Ended up going with 3->4. Basically, almost every gen 3 game feels dated in some way, while gen 4 games seem pretty much fine. You could say a similar thing about 2->3, though, to the point where I still might want to play gen 3 games but never really wanna play gen 2 games nowadays. Now that I think about it, probably should've gone with 2->3.

I really don't have any sense for what the leap was between 1->2. Now I'm curious.

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Lopen
03/07/24 5:38:12 PM
#4:


To me it's easily 2->3. Not even a contest

Games before then by and large had no substance and the standard was it would be played out after 15 minutes. Graphically the biggest jump is probably 4-5 but 2-3 is the "is this viable as an entertainment medium" check.

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azuarc
03/07/24 5:42:39 PM
#5:


Easily Atari to 8-bit. I'm not sure how this is even a question.

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GameBopAdv
03/07/24 5:46:23 PM
#6:


I voted 4 -> 5, but I would be curious to see how much results might differ based on what people grew up with / what nostalgic experiences trained their brains how to experience games. Me, I mostly just played PC games but I got to occasionally play SNES at a cousin's house before getting an N64 maybe halfway into that generation.

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azuarc
03/07/24 5:53:35 PM
#7:


GameBopAdv posted...
I would be curious to see how much results might differ based on what people grew up with / what nostalgic experiences trained their brains how to experience games

I am completely convinced that is the reason 4th is blowing everything away right now. I lived through that transition, and I think it deserves credit as the second-largest jump, but I also experienced the release of the NES, and...have you guys played Atari games? When the highlight of your entire era is Combat, and then Super Mario Bros releases, you know the industry has changed basically overnight. Until then, that sort of experience was reserved for the arcades.

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Snake5555555555
03/07/24 5:54:25 PM
#8:


Honestly 5th to 6th is an insane jump. The "photo-realistic" graphics introduced are still what gets pushed today. The graphical leap from 4th to 5th is impressive but it also feels more so like an all-together different style instead. Add broadband to console games and highly improved audio quality on top of that and you truly have an insane leap that really hasn't been replicated since then.

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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 6:01:08 PM
#9:


4 to 5 no question

2 to 4 is enourmous, but 3 is so perfectly in between both gens, that it greatly softens the impact on either side

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Paratroopa1
03/07/24 7:14:18 PM
#10:


I never really know how much of my experience is colored by the games I had and did not have in my childhood, but the difference between the 2nd gen and 3rd gen is like... the difference between "proto-video games" and "video games." Playing most Atari games now is like - I don't feel like I'm playing a game, I feel like I'm fucking around with a prototype of something that could be cool later. When I play NES games I feel like I'm just playing video games. Of course, for a lot of people the NES feels as dated as the Atari now (and I dread the idea that even the SNES/Genesis is dated to some people) but to me the 3rd generation is the beginning of modern console games.
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Paratroopa1
03/07/24 7:16:26 PM
#11:


Also I feel like 5th to 6th was a bigger jump forward than 4th to 5th. Like, yeah, the sudden ability to have 3D graphics was amazing at the time but it also felt like a step back in a lot of ways - even at the time I knew that the SNES/Genesis games of the time looked sharper visually and were more polished. The difference between 5th to 6th on the other hand is wild - PSX/N64 games feel noticeably like they're from a totally different time and place but PS2/GC/Xbox can almost pass itself off as current. That was really the last generation where I felt like, holy shit, we're in the future. After that it's been creeping incremental changes.
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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 7:43:12 PM
#12:


Paratroopa1 posted...
When I play NES games I feel like I'm just playing video games
I don't really. It still feels like a more advanced arcade game.

The fancy ones that saved your games do feel like a big step into the future though. That top tier of games was pretty much like modern gaming. But the majority of NES games still feel super outdated.

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MZero
03/07/24 7:47:43 PM
#13:


5th to 6th for me

I remember being absolutely blown away by that Gamecube tech demo of Link and Ganondorf fighting and thinking for the first time that games would never look more realistic (lol). It felt like a huge jump from the blocky Lego models, terrible controls, and wonky cameras. I'm picking it over 4th to 5th because I feel like that was a regression in overall quality, whereas 5th to 6th had the combination of technical and quality improvement. 5th gen felt like a premature jump to 3D, and 6th gen is when they actually figured it out.

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CoolCly
03/07/24 8:00:59 PM
#14:


Yeah, I think supporters of 2 to 3 are looking at the height of the NES's accomplishments, which were significant, but were not that widespread- many games did just feel like arcade games. But because the NES did accomplish those things, the jump to SNES is smoothed out a bit too. foolmo has the right read

5 to 6 did feel like a big upgrade to photo realism but some would say 6 to 7 was too. I don't think it compares to the 4 to 5 change to the very dimensions we live in. what a patch that was

4 to 5 is the way.

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Brayze_II
03/07/24 8:07:44 PM
#15:


2-3 was the biggest leap. It was an extinction event, the types of games that were common in 2 don't really exist now - in fact, the industry really did crash during 2, in part because games were so shit. 4-5 gave us more advanced tools in terms of the scope of polygon use, as well as the mixed blessing of elaborate FMV, but there was no widespread extinction of gen 4 type games.

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Xeybozn
03/07/24 8:13:34 PM
#16:


Has to be 4th to 5th. Every other gen change is basically "previous gen with better graphics and more detailed worlds", but the leap to 3D changed everything.

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Maniac64
03/07/24 8:17:16 PM
#17:


Leonhart4 posted...
Just in terms of perception, it feels like 4th to 5th because of 3D, FMVs, etc.
Also discs and memory cards.

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Lopen
03/07/24 8:27:31 PM
#18:


Xeybozn posted...
Has to be 4th to 5th. Every other gen change is basically "previous gen with better graphics and more detailed worlds", but the leap to 3D changed everything.

Sounds like someone who hasn't played much of the Gen 1-2 libraries

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Lopen
03/07/24 8:28:24 PM
#19:


I mean I guess like

"Has enough basic detail and depth to be considered a world" is technically a "more detailed world"

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Wanglicious
03/07/24 8:42:34 PM
#20:


5th to 6th wasn't just better graphics, it was better engines, better controls, better hitboxes, etc. it was an enormous leap in gameplay.

4th to 5th was a huge leap because of the third dimension and the leap it brought but 5th to 6th is the one that let you use that in all kinds of games and created many, many new genres. basically the older gen was trying something new, the newer gen was perfecting what it could actually do, in every genre.

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KamikazePotato
03/07/24 8:44:59 PM
#21:


foolm0r0n posted...
I don't really. It still feels like a more advanced arcade game.

The fancy ones that saved your games do feel like a big step into the future though. That top tier of games was pretty much like modern gaming. But the majority of NES games still feel super outdated.
I pretty much agree with this. NES was very top-heavy. With that said, the standards of quality did still jump a lot from 2 to 3.

For me it's a dead heat choice between 2->3 and 4->5.

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KanzarisKelshen
03/07/24 9:13:42 PM
#22:


Lopen posted...
I mean I guess like

"Has enough basic detail and depth to be considered a world" is technically a "more detailed world"

Very detailed games existed in the first and second generations, just not graphically. Colossal Cave is from 1976 for example, only four years after Pong. It's hard to say exactly what divides 'actual, real game' games from the first generation from the ones in the second in terms of depth, but they did exist. It was just a hard tradeoff between graphics and gameplay depth is all.

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Haste_2
03/07/24 9:32:54 PM
#23:


Voting for 5th to 6th because the graphical improvements was really notable. Like, it went from blocky, pixelated characters to FMV-like characters.

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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 9:33:40 PM
#24:


Brayze_II posted...
but there was no widespread extinction of gen 4 type games.
What lol. There was SOTN and that's it. All other 2D games were done, forever relegated to handhelds, until indie games came back during the 360 era.

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Brayze_II
03/07/24 9:35:13 PM
#25:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
Very detailed games existed in the first and second generations, just not graphically. Colossal Cave is from 1976 for example, only four years after Pong. It's hard to say exactly what divides 'actual, real game' games from the first generation from the ones in the second in terms of depth, but they did exist. It was just a hard tradeoff between graphics and gameplay depth is all.
I mean you're right; it amazes me that Colossal Cave Adventure, among the first (if not the first among) text adventure games, was written to be played on a mainframe and was usually played via teleprinter without a monitor. It might be safe to say that the biggest leaps were the earliest.

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Brayze_II
03/07/24 9:36:14 PM
#26:


foolm0r0n posted...
What lol. There was SOTN and that's it. All other 2D games were done, forever relegated to handhelds, until indie games came back during the 360 era.
First off no, secondly 'relegated to handhelds' as if that isn't a major part of gaming?

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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 9:38:31 PM
#27:


The crash is a good argument for 3 though. It did turn an industry from a dying fad into a permanent medium of the entertainment.

On that angle though, I think gen 6 turned it into THE medium of our generation and the most profitable form of entertainment.

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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 9:40:32 PM
#28:


Brayze_II posted...
First off no, secondly 'relegated to handhelds' as if that isn't a major part of gaming?
You're right, I should vote for the Gameboy on the poll. It was undeniably the biggest leap in gaming.

Oh wait it's not on the poll because it's not relevant to the question.

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Brayze_II
03/07/24 9:43:04 PM
#29:


foolm0r0n posted...
You're right, I should vote for the Gameboy on the poll. It was undeniably the biggest leap in gaming.

Oh wait it's not on the poll because it's not relevant to the question.
Well fair enough, but regardless there were a ton of 2d platformers on playstation 1, as well as isometric adventure games etc.

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jcgamer107
03/07/24 9:55:12 PM
#30:


4 -> 5, the N64 was pretty mind-blowing at the time, though I think you could make the case for anything up to 5 -> 6

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Lopen
03/07/24 9:59:36 PM
#31:


There's probably over 100 2d games on PSX and N64 combined. It's not remotely an extinction event as was said with the super simple games of Gen 1-2.

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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 10:10:13 PM
#32:


Lopen posted...
There's probably over 100 2d games on PSX and N64 combined. It's not remotely an extinction event as was said with the super simple games of Gen 1-2.
What are 3 popular ones? I literally can't think of them. But the exception does prove the rule.

The NES catalog was majority Atari style games but better graphics, the advanced games were the exception. SNES is when the simple games actually became extinct.

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MZero
03/07/24 10:14:25 PM
#33:


There were still plenty of 2D JRPGs and Fighting games, like DQVII, the Suikoden games, Street Fighter 3, King of Fighters, Guilty Gear, etc.

If anything they died out more in the PS2 era


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TomNook
03/07/24 10:15:25 PM
#34:


Easily 2 -> 3. Based on game design and overall experience. Any historian would back this up too.

Something tells me the poll is trying to get us to vote based on graphics though, because of the choice of dropping all Nintendo consoles after Gamecube, when they stopped competing in graphics each gen.

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KanzarisKelshen
03/07/24 10:22:28 PM
#35:


foolm0r0n posted...
What are 3 popular ones? I literally can't think of them. But the exception does prove the rule.

The NES catalog was majority Atari style games but better graphics, the advanced games were the exception. SNES is when the simple games actually became extinct.

Marvel vs Capcom 1, Strider 2, the various PSX Mega Man Xs. Didn't even have to go past a single company here. 2d didn't die in the PSX/64 era!

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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 10:26:39 PM
#36:


No one I know played those 2D games but I guess some people did

I did play Worms on Dreamcast though now that I think about it

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Lopen
03/07/24 10:47:52 PM
#37:


I would disagree most NES games are "atari style" unless you're being extremely loose in what that actually means. In fact I would wager on percentage there are less of those on the NES than 2d games on PSX/Saturn/N64

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CoolCly
03/07/24 10:48:10 PM
#38:


Brayze_II posted...
First off no, secondly 'relegated to handhelds' as if that isn't a major part of gaming?


This is actually a pretty brilliant comparison by foolmo. Handhelds were essentially "stuck" in 4th gen for a long time by design and the difference between them and consoles/PC's is really stark. It's literally at the barrier.

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Lopen
03/07/24 10:49:20 PM
#39:


Like basically any game with a structure of stages and bosses ceases being Atari style.

Guess what probably 90%+ of NES games are.

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foolm0r0n
03/07/24 11:32:26 PM
#40:


Lopen posted...
Like basically any game with a structure of stages and bosses ceases being Atari style.
It doesn't differentiate it much to me, it still feels like an arcade game.

Mega Man for example does not feel next gen at al. Metal Slug, Contra, Ninja Garden, etc. Even Metroid feels archaic due to the password system alone. Mario though feels totally modern.

Pokemon (if we're treating GB as the NES generation equivalent) is also completely modern. There's such a a huge gulf between that and Mega Man.

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ExThaNemesis
03/07/24 11:34:48 PM
#41:


I went from N64 to PS2 and it felt like a whole new world honestly.

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BlueCrystalTear
03/07/24 11:43:49 PM
#42:


4th to 5th is the correct answer. That leap changed how video games were played like nothing had before. There were so many changes that the leap from 2D to 3D did - graphics, control schemes, level design, you name it.

2nd to 3rd is second. Because while control schemes were similar there, the level design evolved a heck of a lot.

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HeroDelTiempo17
03/07/24 11:52:51 PM
#43:


foolm0r0n posted...
It doesn't differentiate it much to me, it still feels like an arcade game.

Yeah I think a reason 2->3 doesn't feel as impactful to me is that consoles were catching up to arcades in a big way. Thinking about the legendarily bad Atari Pac-Man port, and yeah the NES has Pac-Man at home but it's still just Pac-Man. It's not really a huge leap in terms of the technology as much as it is a market shift that eventually led to shifts in game design. I guess it depends on what you're valuing here.

For me, my mind went to the technological advancement first so I voted 4->5

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Grand_Kirby
03/08/24 12:28:11 AM
#44:


TomNook posted...
Something tells me the poll is trying to get us to vote based on graphics though, because of the choice of dropping all Nintendo consoles after Gamecube, when they stopped competing in graphics each gen.
I dropped it because after Gamecube the Nintendo consoles start getting hard to categorize. They start to feel "in-between" generations. Wikipedia lists the Wii U and the Switch as being in the same gen, which... I guess? But it made things awkward so I felt it was easier to focus on the consoles that are more obviously sorted into their era.

For the record, I didn't make any specific requirements as to what counts as a "leap" because I wanted people to feel open to interpret that however they felt. Whether its graphics or gameplay or whatever.

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azuarc
03/08/24 1:22:26 AM
#45:


foolm0r0n posted...
Lopen posted...
Like basically any game with a structure of stages and bosses ceases being Atari style.

It doesn't differentiate it much to me, it still feels like an arcade game.

Didn't say arcade game, said atari game. Just like the consoles advanced in technology and game design over the years, so did the arcades. (And so did home computer gaming. The C64 and Amiga were leaps and bounds ahead of anything else that came along prior, if you want to use a PC as a gaming platform.)

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lordjers
03/08/24 1:40:20 AM
#46:


  1. 4-5: 3D and FMV explosion, it was something to behold.
  2. 2-3: Super Mario Bros. changed the landscape of videogaming. Still, 3rd gen's early years were still dominated by arcade games in the style of 2nd gen. Consoles like the SG-1000 also overlap generations.
  3. 1-2: Underrated answer. 2nd gen standardized actual game libraries, greatly expanded on genres when the 1st gen only had like 3 of them in very raw formats (sports which were Pong variations, light gun, racing), level progression even if most loops were short, in-game backgrounds, high scores. You have the progression of dots and sticks to Coleco and SG-1000 graphics that look like early 3rd gen.
  4. 3-4: Back then when bits actually mattered.

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RySenkari
03/08/24 2:43:21 AM
#47:


2nd to 3rd is not that big of a jump. If not for the crash, you absolutely would've had games like Super Mario Bros. on Colecovision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nagRvRlEA6I

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Brayze_II
03/08/24 2:50:45 AM
#48:


RySenkari posted...
2nd to 3rd is not that big of a jump. If not for the crash, you absolutely would've had games like Super Mario Bros. on Colecovision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nagRvRlEA6I
It's impressive, but this is after decades of hobbyists plumbing the guts of a system to optimize capabilities; this absolutely would not have happened within the framing of the era.

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Wanglicious
03/08/24 4:48:16 AM
#49:


Grand_Kirby posted...
I dropped it because after Gamecube the Nintendo consoles start getting hard to categorize. They start to feel "in-between" generations. Wikipedia lists the Wii U and the Switch as being in the same gen, which... I guess? But it made things awkward so I felt it was easier to focus on the consoles that are more obviously sorted into their era.

Nintendo's a weird one to categorize because on top of underpowered console hardware, handhelds are consistently a generation behind in tech but with all the experience and development made. I just go more or less by time period which is what I think most people do as well, and that's why Wii U/Switch fall together. Switch was basically a 3DS successor in hardware and a replacement to the failed Wii U.

also anyone talking level design and gameplay is really sleeping on 5th to 6th. it's not just graphics, the biggest improvement was to game physics. the graphics helped on that in that it allowed you to actually visualize clearly, interact clearly, and move in ways that couldn't be done before because, simply put, neither hardware nor software was there yet. as in we literally didn't have the tech yet. for some perspective on this, over on PC land Unreal Engine released in 1998, 2nd was out in 2001. Xbox used DirectX, Nintendo used something similar to OpenGL, Sony was... well, Sony.

survival horror got things like Fatal Frame, Silent Hill 2, RE4, none could've been done before. platformers got things like Ratchet and Clank, action/adventure got Metroid Prime, action got to exist in Devil May Cry and the evolution it had by the time it got to 3 was enormous along with games like God of War that tried a bit of platforming. Katamari Damacy is an easy example of scale and object interaction along with crazy physics that you didn't just see but you made. the PS2 Ace Combat trilogy on gameplay and cinematics, MGS2 and 3 on gameplay and cinematics. turnbased RPGs didn't have much to improve on beyond visuals but action RPGs were able to become a genre that could exist (see: KH) and the concept of freely moving around in combat became real between Tales of Symphonia, Abyss, and Star Ocean 3 (which wasn't a good game otherwise but hey).

oh yeah, can't forget the importance of storage either. between DVDs and yes, even the Gamecube's mini discs, the increased storage helped a ton. the generations after are definitely a case of diminishing returns but that's because it was the 6th gen that managed to reach a level where things worked as opposed to trying to figure out.

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XIII_Rocks
03/08/24 4:59:12 AM
#50:


Paratroopa1 posted...
Also I feel like 5th to 6th was a bigger jump forward than 4th to 5th. Like, yeah, the sudden ability to have 3D graphics was amazing at the time but it also felt like a step back in a lot of ways - even at the time I knew that the SNES/Genesis games of the time looked sharper visually and were more polished. The difference between 5th to 6th on the other hand is wild - PSX/N64 games feel noticeably like they're from a totally different time and place but PS2/GC/Xbox can almost pass itself off as current. That was really the last generation where I felt like, holy shit, we're in the future. After that it's been creeping incremental changes.


I think a lot of this is very fair, but I would still say 4 -> 5

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