Poll of the Day > If Biden loses the election...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Muscles posted...

At least you have guys like Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR preventing either from being the worst ever unless you let recency bias take a hold of you

It's funny how Muscles always lets us know he's playing a clown character when he posts here trying to get a response from us. Placing FDR (the best president in US history) in the same position as a president who did genocide and the guy who was the most racist president in US history.

then it wouldn't be a free market anymore, would it

Muscles posted...

He didn't need to print the extra money that started this crazy inflation. At the very least he could have done something since then to help but this economy is shit. Gas, food, and housing prices are all out of hand and he has done nothing about it.

I just don't see Trump as a viable alternative in this regard. Trump spent like a drunken sailor during his four years as a president, even while times were supposedly good and during his business days always seemed ridiculously overleveraged and indeed went bankrupt several times. I could never see him being a fiscal conservative. It seems to be in his nature to spend like a madman.

Both presidents are pretty mediocre, but at least with Biden, I feel like he would at least listen to his advisors or defer if he is out of his element. Trump is ridiculously arrogant, so he does not listen to anyone, partly why his cabinet was always in chaos until he filled it with a bunch obsequious low lifes. Also why the only long term business partners he seems to have is his family. If he could fill his cabinet with his family members I am sure he would, but ultimately he has to work with other people and he seems to be very poor at this

Makes me not trust Trump with any type of crisis. His handling of Covid was extremely disjointed and no matter what camp you were in, wasn't satisfactory. He mostly lucked out because he didn't have to deal with much during his administration and I attribute that more to luck of the draw than any type of proactive problem solving. He always felt reactionary on most issues, not the contemplative proactive type

DragonClaw01 posted...

I could never see him being a fiscal conservative.

he voted for bill clinton and ended up voting for obama at least once

so

he also had multiple casinos fail, so he was never a fiscal conservative

ConfusedTorchic posted...

he voted for bill clinton and ended up voting for obama at least once

so

he also had multiple casinos fail, so he was never a fiscal conservative

Yeah, I just find the idea of Trump being some type of spend thrift hilarious. The man doesn't have a thrifty bone in his body. But I have heard the arguments that he is before IRL. I guess people just attribute whatever the F to him no matter how ridiculous.

Muscles posted...

but printing so much during covid came back to bite us in the ass too

And do you think Biden was unique in needing to spend money to deal with Covid? That some other option could have miraculously solved the problem for free?

This is what I mean when I say that the things that are most remarkable about Biden are more a matter of circumstance than anything he can/should be credited with. Anything related to Covid? It was a global pandemic, not anything unique to America or his administration. The global inflation crisis? Again, that's a global thing (it's in the name), driven largely by corporations trying to recapture some of the highs they had during Covid's peak and/or make up Covid-induced losses (with a little sprinkling of oil companies using the Russia-Ukraine war as an excuse to double the price of gas for no reason). Biden's stuck managing these crises, and there's plenty of room to praise/criticize that handling, but to suggest that he's responsible for OPEC jacking up gas prices is too myopically naive to even belong on Fox News, let alone coming out of the mouth of anyone that wants to pretend they know what they're talking about.

browsing reddit these past few months and it's astonishing seeing people go "bidens never done nothing for me!!!" and then checking their post history and they're also talking about their student loan debt being wiped away and how not having that burden completely changes their life

so did he or did he not do something for you in an extremely positive way

Muscles posted...

adjl posted...
"Biden is the worst president" is such a hilarious take because it immediately outs the person in question as having "Biden replaced Trump" as the sum total of their political knowledge. Like him or not, Biden is a thoroughly unremarkable president. The only things that stand out about him are that he took power after one of the most controversial presidents ever (two impeachments, an attempt to overthrow the election to install him undemocratically, and over a hundred indictments - whatever your opinion on his political stances, it's undeniable that he's made quite a stir) and during/after the worst public health crisis in a century, both of which are more a matter of circumstance than anything that can really be attributed to him.
Biden's whole thing was not being trump, he's pretty bad and hasn't done anything beneficial (besides not being trump). He's pretty bad and has hurt this country with his rampant spending and printing money, thus causing inflation (it is also because of greedy companies, but printing so much during covid came back to bite us in the ass too).

Biden is mid pack at best and in not even sure if he's better than Trump. At least things were more affordable under him, but I would rather have a dead squirrel than either of them. At least you have guys like Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR preventing either from being the worst ever unless you let recentcy bias take a hold of you

Literally both of these takes are wrong. It can't be understated Biden's accomplishments, especially considering the inept and combative Congress and rogue SC he's had to deal with.

The Infrastructure Act alone has a plethora of great legislative achievements that go beyond fixing our old roads and bridges. Allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices (FINALLY) alone will save untold millions to not only citizens, but lower drug prices and services across the board. That and student loan debt cancelation alone will put this country's middle class back on financial track for generations to come.

And that's just two things.

Although Muscles isn't meant to be taken seriously obviously.

Muscles posted...

He didn't need to print the extra money that started this crazy inflation. At the very least he could have done something since then to help but this economy is shit. Gas, food, and housing prices are all out of hand and he has done nothing about it.

He didn't start the "inflation." Rich people started buying out Congress in the 60s, and it became noticeable in the 70s. You're expecting any one President alone to fight the momentum that's been picking up since before anyone in this board was born (even PO), unless said President were to pull an Andrew Jackson and shut down the very institutions behind this financial strife, redirecting those obscene funds into the debt. We all know that will happen the day known clowns on this board will stop being clowns, Muscles . <_<

ConfusedTorchic posted...

browsing reddit these past few months and it's astonishing seeing people go "bidens never done nothing for me!!!" and then checking their post history and they're also talking about their student loan debt being wiped away and how not having that burden completely changes their life

so did he or did he not do something for you in an extremely positive way

Some people are just downright ungrateful and selfish. Biden was never going to win their votes anyway.

adjl posted...

His rationale is that because the loans were paid back, no harm was done and therefore Trump shouldn't be punished. Obviously, if the loans weren't paid back there'd be no question of his liability for whatever damages were incurred, but in this case it's less a matter of punishing him for causing damage and more a matter of punishing him simply for breaking the rules (rules which need to exist).

It's more than that.

Trump lying about his property values let him secure a loan at a lower rate, because the bank thought it was taking on less risk than it actually was. In essence, the bank should have been paid much more money to finance the loan in the form of higher interest rates, but they lost those profits because Trump defrauded them.

Muscles posted...

He's pretty bad and has hurt this country with his rampant spending and printing money, thus causing inflation (it is also because of greedy companies, but printing so much during covid came back to bite us in the ass too).

If you're going to blame Biden's financial policies for inflation, you might want to consider what's happening in other countries.

Specifically, every developed country on the planet fought high inflation after COVID ended. That's not a result of any one government's monetary policy, that's a result of a massive surge of consumers suddenly getting back out into the real world (thus causing a glut of demand for goods and services that had previously been inaccessible during COVID) and supply chains taking 1-2 years post-COVID to fully bring themselves back online to pre-pandemic levels (thus choking supply of many of those same goods and services). High demand + low supply = soaring prices = inflation.

And the US has actually done fairly well for itself, all things considered. Compared to other G20 economies, the US is actually slightly ahead of the curve, typically ranking somewhere in the 5-10th spots for inflation.

For my own view, I think Biden has been a perfectly adequate president. He hasn't been worldshaking, but he's shown competence and has been a steady hand at the wheel, which the US badly needed after the Trump years. I think most of his accomplishments kind of work against him for how low-key they've been - he did an excellent job rallying the world to Ukraine's aid in the immediate aftermath of the 2022 invasion (and would be continuing to reap dividends if the Republicans in the House would stop dogfucking for five seconds and do their job), his infrastructure bill is sorely needed, and his management of the economy has been solid. His only major misstep has been his handling of the Israel/Palestine conflict - regardless of your views on the belligerents, it is quite clear that Biden's maximal and unconditional support for Israel has not yielded any influence over Israeli decision-making, illustrated most vividly in Israel's complete lack of interest in facilitating humanitarian supplies or stopping West Bank settler violence, despite entreaties from the US to do so, and their decision not to inform the US of a strike against the Iranian consulate in Syria, a major escalatory action that put American troops and assets at risk and threatened (and still threatens) to touch off a wider conflict in the region.

Thus far, I'd probably give him a solid 7.5/10. Maybe 8/10 if I'm feeling charitable.

Muscles posted...

Biden's whole thing was not being trump, he's pretty bad and hasn't done anything beneficial (besides not being trump). He's pretty bad and has hurt this country with his rampant spending and printing money, thus causing inflation (it is also because of greedy companies, but printing so much during covid came back to bite us in the ass too).

Biden is mid pack at best and in not even sure if he's better than Trump. At least things were more affordable under him, but I would rather have a dead squirrel than either of them. At least you have guys like Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR preventing either from being the worst ever unless you let recency bias take a hold of you

Ok Zeus.

BlackScythe0 posted...

It's funny how Muscles always lets us know he's playing a clown character when he posts here trying to get a response from us. Placing FDR (the best president in US history) in the same position as a president who did genocide and the guy who was the most racist president in US history.

When did Woodrow Wilson commit genocide?

Revelation34 posted...

When did Woodrow Wilson commit genocide?

What set you off in this thread? Every post you've made in this thread has been absurdly ignorant. Andrew Jackson did the trail of tears.

darkknight109 posted...

Specifically, every developed country on the planet fought high inflation after COVID ended. That's not a result of any one government's monetary policy,

Which is why many people were saying a near full on shutdown of the economy was a terrible idea and now we're seeing why. It's taking years to recover and really it never will fully recover because let's be real... these prices are never reverting back to pre covid levels. Now people are barely surviving, and in many cases, they aren't surviving. So we've effectively created a global economic crisis when many people were saying that was absurd and it wouldn't happen.

But once again, that wasn't biden's doing. That's all on trump

It's funny, because so many stores were forced to stay open during the shutdown, just to keep the economy running. I was one of the unfortunate workers during that era. Meanwhile, didn't the corporate overlords make obscene profits despite all this? That, I forget the fine details.

Entity13 posted...

It's funny, because so many stores were forced to stay open during the shutdown, just to keep the economy running. I was one of the unfortunate workers during that era. Meanwhile, didn't the corporate overlords make obscene profits despite all this? That, I forget the fine details.

Well yea the whole idea of the shut down was stupid. People were still working, the lucky people who were out of work weren't staying home, they were all swarming the places still open. All the shut down accomplished was shoving more people into less places. If Trump had stuck to his guns and fought back against the fear mongers I'd have given him credit at this point, but he didn't he went along with the stupid shut down.

Entity13 posted...

It's funny, because so many stores were forced to stay open during the shutdown, just to keep the economy running. I was one of the unfortunate workers during that era. Meanwhile, didn't the corporate overlords make obscene profits despite all this? That, I forget the fine details.

100% much of the inflation is artifical due to corporate greed. Mainly they just left these jacked up prices in place when it isn't actually necessary anymore for the most part

And yeah I had to work during covid. I didn't mind. It was actually kinda awesome because there was no traffic on the roads and my commute ruled lol

OhhhJa posted...

And yeah I had to work during covid. I didn't mind. It was actually kinda awesome because there was no traffic on the roads and my commute ruled lol

The 20 minute walks to and from work were pleasant, for sure.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Well yea the whole idea of the shut down was stupid. People were still working, the lucky people who were out of work weren't staying home, they were all swarming the places still open. All the shut down accomplished was shoving more people into less places. If Trump had stuck to his guns and fought back against the fear mongers I'd have given him credit at this point, but he didn't he went along with the stupid shut down.

lol. You got it ass backwards, laddie. It was because of the half-assed and unclear shut down response, and the Right-wing propaganda about Covid that made it such a bungle to begin with. The inconsistent application across the various states meant Covid was free to keep spreading and wreaking havoc. Not shutting down would have cost so much more in blood and treasure.

BlackScythe0 posted...

What set you off in this thread? Every post you've made in this thread has been absurdly ignorant. Andrew Jackson did the trail of tears.

Andrew Jackson was the racist then.

One of many

Revelation34 posted...

Andrew Jackson was the racist then.

Did it occur to you that perhaps one half of that sentence was referring to one of the two non-FDR presidents named, while the other half was referring to the other, and nobody was suggesting that both applied to either one of them?

BlackScythe0 posted...

It's funny how Muscles always lets us know he's playing a clown character when he posts here trying to get a response from us. Placing FDR (the best president in US history) in the same position as a president who did genocide and the guy who was the most racist president in US history.

FDR was pretty racist, he turned away Jewish refugees during WWII, condemning them to the holocaust and started the Japanese internment camps. But hey, he was a democrat so I guess it's ok.

Muscles posted...

Biden's whole thing was not being trump, he's pretty bad and hasn't done anything beneficial (besides not being trump). He's pretty bad and has hurt this country with his rampant spending and printing money, thus causing inflation (it is also because of greedy companies, but printing so much during covid came back to bite us in the ass too).

Biden is mid pack at best and in not even sure if he's better than Trump. At least things were more affordable under him, but I would rather have a dead squirrel than either of them. At least you have guys like Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR preventing either from being the worst ever unless you let recency bias take a hold of you

COVID was during Trump and so where the handouts. Biden hasn't handed out any money whatsoever. Individual states have but that isn't Biden.

ah ah ah >_>

OhhhJa posted...

Which is why many people were saying a near full on shutdown of the economy was a terrible idea and now we're seeing why. It's taking years to recover and really it never will fully recover because let's be real... these prices are never reverting back to pre covid levels. Now people are barely surviving, and in many cases, they aren't surviving. So we've effectively created a global economic crisis when many people were saying that was absurd and it wouldn't happen.

No one who was paying attention was under any illusions that there would be major economic costs to the full shutdown - one does not simply mothball the economy without consequence, after all. However, I disagreed - and still disagree - that the alternative would have been any better.

The US actually showed us this firsthand, because a lot of Republican-led states tried to minimize their lockdowns and were the first to come out of them. Yet their economies suffered just as much, if not moreso, than the blue states that went long on their lockdowns.

The problem with a global pandemic is that the economy was doomed to suffer no matter what people did. Shut down large parts of the economy? You get the results we're seeing today. Don't shut down anything? A lot of consumers and workers will stay away anyways, because people don't want to risk their lives just to make their corporate overlords an extra percentage point on the quarterly profit report, and those who don't will have their ranks winnowed by the disease you're fighting, which is going to make everything worse (by both weakening your labour force and reducing consumer confidence, which is exactly what happened in those red states that opened up early). Turns out that filling up your economy with sick workers and turning your places of business into plague houses isn't good for the economy either.

Muscles posted...

FDR was pretty racist, he turned away Jewish refugees during WWII, condemning them to the holocaust and started the Japanese internment camps. But hey, he was a democrat so I guess it's ok.

Are you suggesting I'm calling him good for those reasons?

Muscles posted...

FDR was pretty racist, he turned away Jewish refugees during WWII

Not surprising, it took the holocaust for (most) of the world to realize that antisemitism was a bad thing.

shouldnt mods close this topic

Zareth posted...

Not surprising, it took the holocaust for (most) of the world to realize that antisemitism was a bad thing.

You say that as if most of the world isn't still antisemitic as fuck. And generally getting worse with every passing year these days.

Yeah okay

pikakaeru posted...

shouldnt mods close this topic

Whats ironic is that I meant to post this on CE. It probably lasted a lot longer here and maybe got more posts than it would have over there, anyway.