Current Events > My gaming pet peeve: Misuse of the phrase "Skill Ceiling"

(+) Yeah! (+)

You see this frequently in discussions on competitive games with different characters/classes.

If what they're trying to say is that the character has an accessible set of moves or abilities, aka they're "easy to pick up", then that character has a low skill floor. They're describing the minimum level of competency to be effective in most encounters.

A healer in a class-based team game usually has a low skill floor because your basic function to heal teammates is usually easy to do and understand while also positively contributing to a fight. A marksman/sniper usually has a high skill floor because you're often only effective when landing critical hits, which takes a higher level of initial skill to be consistent at.

A skill ceiling is the upper limit of a character's ideal movement, abilities, etc. A high skill ceiling is often described as "hard to master". While not always the case, a character/class with a high skill ceiling rewards the time and effort put into mastering those skills with a higher overall effectiveness versus a character with a lower skill ceiling.

Characters/classes with high aerial mobility usually have a high skill ceiling since the extra dimension of movement takes more spatial reasoning and insight versus a character that primarily moves on the ground. Mastery of that mobility puts you at an advantage over grounded targets by giving more angles of attack and evasion.

Anyway that's my rant. Thanks for listening. Feel free to comment.

as someone currently playing an MMO, healers absolutely do not have a low skill floor

are you talking about FPS games with classes or something

DarthAragorn posted...

as someone currently playing an MMO, healers absolutely do not have a low skill floor

are you talking about FPS games with classes or something

That was my primary focus, yes. I don't know enough about MMOs to comment there.

Keep in mind this kind of discussion would exclude high stakes competition types of game modes where the majority of players are seasoned veterans.

ZMythos posted...

That was my primary focus, yes. I don't know enough about MMOs to comment there.

Ironic that your criticism of people not using one term properly has exposed your own lack of awareness in another way. Not a criticism. Just ironic.

Ive literally never heard it used like that. The only time I say it is saying that old shooters like Unreal Tournament have much higher skill ceilings than modern ones.

DarthAragorn posted...

as someone currently playing an MMO, healers absolutely do not have a low skill floor

Would we say tanks are the low skill floor of MMOs, or is aggro management more complicated than I think?

i heard it used in ninja gaiden vs dmc 3 debates

Skill issue topic

Tanking is almost certainly the easiest in most games that I've played. DPS can be trickier, because if you flub stuff, it can cost you considerably getting back to your proper rotation. In my own experience, healing is also generally quite easy, so long as people are doing what they're supposed to do - not that they ever do xD

So explain a low skill ceiling then.

Ar0ge posted...

So explain a low skill ceiling then.

A character or class which doesn't require much competency to reach their maximum effectiveness, regardless of how effective they are compared to other characters.

Ar0ge posted...

So explain a low skill ceiling then.

I can't find the comic, but it's two guys playing Smash.

One has a thought bubble that is combos and angles of approach and ideal damage distances and blah blah blah.

The other guy has a thought bubble with two words.

Falcon Punch.

Ar0ge posted...

So explain a low skill ceiling then.

The name is self explanatory. Think of something like a turn based RPG. If there were any Pro gamers, theyre not going to be any better at it than normal people because the skill ceiling is low. Whereas if you look at an RTS, certain FPS, fighting games, etc., the skill ceiling is insanely high, so the difference between a pro and a regular gamer is going to be earth to sky.

DarthAragorn posted...

as someone currently playing an MMO, healers absolutely do not have a low skill floor

are you talking about FPS games with classes or something

I'm literally a decade and a half out of date, but when I swapped to playing a healer in WoW it was basically mindless unless my tanks were completely suicidal.

ZMythos posted...

A character or class which doesn't require much competency to reach their maximum effectiveness, regardless of how effective they are compared to other characters.

^. Generally the result of said thing being relatively simple compared to its competition.

I didn't think of comparing games themselves but that's a good analogy.

Games, characters, etc. That are more accessible also have lower skill floors by default.

That's not a bad thing. Having a low floor and a high ceiling is also possible.

In Overwatch terms.

Soldier 76, Reinhardt, and Mercy are probably the go-to or safe choices for DPS/tank/healer, as their roles and skills are straightforward, thus, low skill floor. They do still have a noticeable skill ceiling, what with both Soldier and Mercy being combat medic, or Rein needing to know when to barrier and when to charge, so none of them are just hold button to win.

But none of them are as complex as, say, Genji, Winston, or Ana, who all have much higher skill floors since they have harder-to-master skills for their roles, need to pay greater attention to cooldowns and understanding the battlefield, know when to push, when to ult, when to retreat, etc.

PraetorXyn posted...

The name is self explanatory. Think of something like a turn based RPG. If there were any Pro gamers, theyre not going to be any better at it 5an normal people because the skill ceiling is low. Whereas if you look at an RTS, certain FPS, fighting games, etc., the skill ceiling is insanely high, so the difference between a pro and a regular gamer is going to be earth to sky.

Not quite. Just use Pokemon as the easy example. I'm willing to bet I can beat 19 people out of 20 in a Bo3 on this board in ranbats right now.

Of course the gulf changes depending on the complexity of the games in question, but something like Dive Kick is a hell of a lot less complex than Pokemon. You're right that the difference will often be a lot clearer though.

-

Basically, look at how much work/effort it takes to get baseline basic "decent" results with something and compare it to its competition. Using LoL as an example, I taught my sibling how to play Trynd to a Gold rank level in a day. If I tried to do the same but with Jax, or Gnar, or Ornn, it would've taken a hell of a lot longer. And don't even get me started on Riven/Cam/Fiora/Irelia/Yas.

Actually the Yas VS Yone comparison does wonders, as does Talon VS Zed.

ZMythos posted...

I didn't think of comparing games themselves but that's a good analogy.

Games, characters, etc. That are more accessible also have lower skill floors by default.

That's not a bad thing. Having a low floor and a high ceiling is also possible.

Chess is probably the quintessential "low floor high ceiling" game, if we extend past Vidya.

KajeI posted...

I'm literally a decade and a half out of date, but when I swapped to playing a healer in WoW it was basically mindless unless my tanks were completely suicidal.

I don't know about WoW, but in FF14 for regular/non-Savage/Ultimate content I'd say it's DPS > Tank > Healer in terms of ease of being minimally competent.

Ar0ge posted...

So explain a low skill ceiling then.

something like soldier 76 in overwatch.

DarthAragorn posted...

I don't know about WoW, but in FF14 for regular/non-Savage/Ultimate content I'd say it's DPS > Tank > Healer in terms of ease of being minimally competent.

Never played FF14 so I can't comment on it. From my time playing WoW, tanking was hardest because you needed your DPS to not be suicidal and your healer to be awake, but tanking itself was easy. DPS was easy as long as you and the tank weren't suicidal and your healer was awake. And healing was easy as long as your tank wasn't suicidal and your DPS were awake.

But as far as effort went, I hit a lot fewer buttons and moved around a lot less as a healer than either of the other roles, which is why I stopped playing it.

DrizztLink posted...

I can't find the comic, but it's two guys playing Smash.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1927b929.jpg

funny thing is that captain falcon probably has a higher skill floor than marth does

ZMythos posted...

You see this frequently in discussions on competitive games with different characters/classes.

I'm really curious what sorts of ways you see people misuse "skill ceiling". Since I basically never see anyone use it, correctly or not

kirbymuncher posted...

funny thing is that captain falcon probably has a higher skill floor than marth does

I know it's not technically correct, it's just an excellent illustration of the idea.

Also thank you, I couldn't find that fuckin' anywhere.

If you've ever played Team Fortress 2, here's how I would describe the 9 classes.

Low Floor, Low Ceiling: Heavy, Pyro

Low Floor, High Ceiling: Soldier, Medic

High Floor, Low Ceiling: Spy

High Floor, High Ceiling: Scout, Sniper, Demoman

Engineer is pretty middle-ground for both.

DrizztLink posted...

Also thank you, I couldn't find that fuckin' anywhere.

I dug out an ancient external archive drive for it since I knew I had it saved somewhere. last modified date was June 2009

kirbymuncher posted...

I'm really curious what sorts of ways you see people misuse "skill ceiling". Since I basically never see anyone use it, correctly or not

I don't see the phrase used too frequently, but I see it enough and actually saw it used today which sparked my decision to make this topic.

In fact, it was actually about Overwatch. Something about Mercy having a low skill ceiling which they said means she's easy to pick up. They should have used skill floor instead if that's what they were referring to.

ZMythos posted...

If you've ever played Team Fortress 2, here's how I would describe the 9 classes.

Low Floor, Low Ceiling: Heavy, Pyro

Low Floor, High Ceiling: Soldier, Medic

High Floor, Low Ceiling: Spy

High Floor, High Ceiling: Scout, Sniper, Demoman

Engineer is pretty middle-ground for both.

Pyro airblasting is low ceiling?

Id say Medic and Engie are the lowest skill floors. Their higher skill ceilings are mostly for Ubersaw or Frontier Justice variants.

Huntsman Sniper is honestly pretty low skill floor too, as a Huntsman main myself.

I would hesitate to call Heavy low anything either, given how theyre prime Sniper/Spy fodder.

I dont think anyone disagrees about Scout or Demo being the hardest to master though.

Everything in TF2 is low skill ceiling compared to TFC

MagiMarthKoopa posted...

Everything in TF2 is low skill ceiling compared to TFC

No one fucking cares other than the 7 people still playing that garbage game

Surprisingly cathartic read, tc

blackrider76 posted...

Pyro airblasting is low ceiling?

Getting good at airblast isn't too hard, honestly. The skill it takes fluctuates based on your opponent, and while advanced tech like reflect-jumping exists, the current mechanics make it highly impractical as you simply take too much damage. Thus it doesn't contribute much to overall effectiveness despite being difficult to do.

blackrider76 posted...

Id say Medic and Engie are the lowest skill floors. Their higher skill ceilings are mostly for Ubersaw or Frontier Justice variants.

Medic definitely has the lowest floor of the 9 since any healing is good healing. But counting enemy uber, landing arrows, and general heal spread is hard so the ceiling is pretty high.

Engineer requires a minimum awareness to building placement that puts him a bit higher on the skill floor effectiveness chart.

blackrider76 posted...

Huntsman Sniper is honestly pretty low skill floor too, as a Huntsman main myself.

I wouldn't say /pretty/ low. Lower than stock sniper sure but being effective at the huntsman still requires a minimum level of competence above some other classes.

blackrider76 posted...

I would hesitate to call Heavy low anything either, given how theyre prime Sniper/Spy fodder.

heavy is mechanically low-skill. tracking, positioning, and jump-revving are the upper end of his toolkit. Doesn't take much mechanical skill to execute heavy to a competent degree, and there's not much higher he can go than that.

TC needs to explain how its misused with examples