Current Events > Is Windows 11 worth upgrading to yet?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm convinced 99% of problems people have with Windows (any version) are user skill issues.

BewmHedshot posted...

I'm convinced 99% of problems people have with Windows (any version) are user skill issues.

Well, the windows update system has been legitimately trash from at least w10 onwards

Rika_Furude posted...

Well, the windows update system has been legitimately trash from at least w10 onwards

Never had a problem but I have heard it bricked some systems.

BewmHedshot posted...

Never had a problem but I have heard it bricked some systems.

Ive never had it brick any system but its just built on lies

it will tell you theres an update and give you an option to Restart and Update or just Restart. You click Restart because you have shit to do and just need to reboot to fix an issue or something. But then it starts updating anyway.

other times it will want to update and give you the options Update and Shut Down or just Shut Down. Youll click Update and Shut Down because youre done with the PC for the day and want it to be up to date when you boot it up the next day. Then it will restart the Pc, not update, and leave it running overnight.

This has happened across 20 PCs Ive witnessed from different brands and at different companies Ive supported so its not a niche issue just affecting me

BewmHedshot posted...

Never had a problem but I have heard it bricked some systems.

Until recently Windows 11 had an update that completely broke VPNs and it took about a month to fix it. If I was using Windows instead of Ubuntu on my work laptop I might have had to go through the headache of rolling back an update in order to do my job.

Microsoft has a bit of a history (and it's worse than ever with Windows 11) for pushing out updates that have not been properly tested. I know that's not totally a Windows 11 problem in itself but it is a problem that Windows 11 is experiencing probably too often. Microsoft needs to improve their QA.

I lost my Windows 11 license after a simple reinstall.

Since I changed some faulty RAM cards, I guess it thinks I'm using a new computer.

Anyway, it wants me to pay $120 to have that back again.

For now, I'm stuck with a watermark warning on screen. :(

Steffenfield posted...

I lost my Windows 11 license after a simple reinstall.

Since I changed some faulty RAM cards, I guess it thinks I'm using a new computer.

Anyway, it wants me to pay $120 to have that back again.

For now, I'm stuck with a watermark warning on screen. :(

Just go to whokeys and use the code TS25 (maybe TS20, I cant remember) to get a Win a Pro OEM key for about $20-25.

But if you dont want to do that, you should be able to call Microsoft support and theyll probably transfer the license to the new hardware, but Id rather buy another key than spend that much time on the phone.

OEM keys are tied to the motherboard and RAM pretty much. I had no problems after upgrading my CPU, and when I upgraded with a clean install of 11, I skipped entering the key during install so I could copy / paste it instead of typing it in, but when I went to do that, it was already activated because the hardware was the same, I guess.

PraetorXyn posted...

Just go to whokeys and use the code TS25 (maybe TS20, I cant remember) to get a Win a Pro OEM key for about $20-25.

But if you dont want to do that, you should be able to call Microsoft support and theyll probably transfer the license to the new hardware, but Id rather buy another key than spend that much time on the phone.

OEM keys are tied to the motherboard and RAM pretty much. I had no problems after upgrading my CPU, and when I upgraded with a clean install of 11, I skipped entering the key during install so I could copy / paste it instead of typing it in, but when I went to do that, it was already activated because the hardware was the same, I guess.

Thank you!

Yeah, $25 doesn't seem all that bad and I would gladly pay for this to finally resolve.

$125 just seemed a bit extra hateful so I passed.

Steffenfield posted...

Thank you!

Yeah, $25 doesn't seem all that bad and I would gladly pay for this to finally resolve.

$125 just seemed a bit extra hateful so I passed.

Yeah, thats just Microsoft artificially inflating OEM key prices to try and sell more retails keys. They sell OEM keys to OEMs for $20-25, probably less.

No. It is not very good.

I'd you use explorerpatcher, 11 is almost usable. That said, I still don't like it

PraetorXyn posted...

Yeah, thats just Microsoft artificially inflating OEM key prices to try and sell more retails keys. They sell OEM keys to OEMs for $20-25, probably less.

I already checked the price and it was $24.

I was in Incognito mode on my tablet though.

Will make the purchase tonight on my PC.

Thanks again! :)

I've had that nagging watermark on screen for three months now.

I even posted over on the PC help boards here that went 4 pages deep but couldn't get this resolved.

Steffenfield posted...

I already checked the price and it was $24.

I was in Incognito mode on my tablet though.

Will make the purchase tonight on my PC.

Thanks again! :)

I've had that nagging watermark on screen for three months now.

I even posted over on the PC help boards here that went 4 pages deep but couldn't get this resolved.

NP. My friend used it for his build in the last few months and it worked fine. I only learned about it fairly recently.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yes and as I said it's something we shouldn't have to do. The correct solution Microsoft should have enacted was making customizing the context menu easier rather than their "solution" of making us have to do more clicks. It's just poor design.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


And you ignore the fact that nobody wants to be paying for security updates, let alone a payment that each year will cost more and more.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Unless you're advocating piracy this solution requires you to have the Enterprise version of Windows 10 doesn't it? So that's what? Something like $300 or you get into a fucking subscription to get access to Enterprise version.

None of your proposed solutions are good solutions.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

At least on the first one, the latest development build is making that much more difficult. Its a moving target currently. Theyres also apparently going to force BitLocker encryption, and since BitLocker is awful and people have legitimately been locked out of their drives due to it, thats not good.

I overall agree though. 11 just looks and feels much nicer to use, and if the context menu starts bugging me enough Ill figure out how to customize it. This far I havent needed to, but Id have been happier with the old context menu but with the extra padding between items the regular one has.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


The cringe is you suggesting going through more work and annoyance to pirate or to pay Microsoft more money for ease of use.

The real solution is make the switch to Linux. It didn't used to be particularly viable if you were a gamer but Valve has done a lot to change that with Proton.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Literally my first post in this thread mentioned switching to Linux. This is a piece of the puzzle that fell into place ages ago for me.

I advocate for switching to Linux, most people still think it's some onerous thing to do.

Enclave posted...

Literally my first post in this thread mentioned switching to Linux. This is a piece of the puzzle that fell into place ages ago for me.

I advocate for switching to Linux, most people still think it's some onerous thing to do.

It still is for a gaming desktop. Not because of games, but everything around them. Decades of mod managers, save editors, trainers, cheat engines, etc., basically every tool used to customize games in any way, is Windows only, and I cant be arsed to set up WINE bottles manually until Proton can do all that for me, which it probably never will. Not to mention, even when you do go through that hassle, there are examples where the experience is very buggy.

It also helps having a Windows machine around for certain software I like to use, as I havent found a satisfactory Linux alternative for securely ripping CDs like EAC and dBpoweramp.

For ripping Blu-Rays, MakeMKV and FileBot both work fine on Linux, but Im not aware of anything I can play the disc with to note down the special features from the menu to help me name the ripped files correctly.

For any development workstation or server, yeah, Linux is a no brainer. My NAS runs Linux, and I just got a Minisforum MS-01 built up with 96 GB of Crucial DDR5 and two WD N700 2 TB NVMe drives with a TBW of 2500 or so that Im going to RAIDZ1 in Proxmox so I can virtualize a Debian server to move my Docker containers to, maybe virtualize OpnSense to act as my router if I get a separate access point, etc. Should be fun.

Nope. Still can't stand using Windows 11, which I have on one of my laptops at home (not my PC).

I will switch to Linux and use a Windows VM before I ever use shiftfest Windows 11 on my main computers

PraetorXyn posted...

It still is for a gaming desktop. Not because of games, but everything around them. Decades of mod managers, save editors, trainers, cheat engines, etc., basically every tool used to customize games in any way, is Windows only, and I cant be arsed to set up WINE bottles manually until Proton can do all that for me, which it probably never will. Not to mention, even when you do go through that hassle, there are examples where the experience is very buggy.

It also helps having a Windows machine around for certain software I like to use, as I havent found a satisfactory Linux alternative for securely ripping CDs like EAC and dBpoweramp.

For ripping Blu-Rays, MakeMKV and FileBot both work fine on Linux, but Im not aware of anything I can play the disc with to note down the special features from the menu to help me name the ripped files correctly.

For any development workstation or server, yeah, Linux is a no brainer. My NAS runs Linux, and I just got a Minisforum MS-01 built up with 96 GB of Crucial DDR5 and two WD N700 2 TB NVMe drives with a TBW of 2500 or so that Im going to RAIDZ1 in Proxmox so I can virtualize a Debian server to move my Docker containers to, maybe virtualize OpnSense to act as my router if I get a separate access point, etc. Should be fun.

For modding, at least games that officially support modding, Linux tends to not have much issue and support is always improving. Admittedly I didn't consider trainers or cheat engine, I'm certainly not aware of any equivalent on Linux for those.

I also don't have much experience with ripping discs so I'll have to take your word for that.

Used it for a few months on my laptop now, they pointlessly rearranged a lot of things but it's just a matter of getting used to it I guess

Enclave posted...

For modding, at least games that officially support modding, Linux tends to not have much issue and support is always improving. Admittedly I didn't consider trainers or cheat engine, I'm certainly not aware of any equivalent on Linux for those.

Yeah, the mods usually work fine, its just that you either have to run the mod manager through WINE (and some of them dont work well that way, like Mod Organizer, the best one for Bethesda games), or install the mods manually, which is a big pain when youre used to using a mod manager.

Most of that probably runs fine through WINE, but to me the hassle of using Windows is preferable to the hassle of fiddling with WINE by hand on a regular basis. Plus, I kind of dont want Windows apps polluting my Linux anyway.

There is another alternative of running Linux and using SR-IOV to share your GOU with a Windows VM (or using GPU pass through to pass a second GPU through to it), but thsts not as popular these days.

I also don't have much experience with ripping discs so I'll have to take your word for that.

There are definitely disc ripping utils on Linux, some that are supposed to secure rip, but most people just run the two I mentioned through WINE I think.

I havent ripped CDs in a while, though I have a pile I need to, but Ive recently stopped paying for streaming services and gotten into ripping Blu-Rays for my media server. The ripping should work fine on Linux, but I normally play it and note special features down in a text file along with durations so I can easily figure out which file is which and name everything correctly. Kind of silly honestly as Ive never watched any of them, but hey, OCD will do that to you.

I never upgrade my os iuse what my pc has from the factory

Switching to Linux isn't something I'm prepared to do

PraetorXyn posted...

as I havent found a satisfactory Linux alternative for securely ripping CDs like EAC and dBpoweramp.

fre:ac is honestly the best CD ripping software I've used (yes it supports AccurateRip)
https://www.freac.org/

You might as well "upgrade". It's essentially the exact same OS as Windows 10 but newer, although I couldn't tell you what's new in it. I never heard about it being bad for gaming, it works just fine for gaming. Actually there is a thing called Control Flow Guard (CFG) under Windows' Exploit Protection thing that can apparently cause some DX12 games to stutter wildly. But you can disable that feature per application. I've only had to do this for one game so far (Indika).

no.

FL81 posted...

fre:ac is honestly the best CD ripping software I've used (yes it supports AccurateRip)
https://www.freac.org/

Cool. Ill have a look. I need to get all mine set up again and re-test that Im making exact copies to verify the setup anyway.

kind9 posted...

You might as well "upgrade". It's essentially the exact same OS as Windows 10 but newer, although I couldn't tell you what's new in it. I never heard about it being bad for gaming, it works just fine for gaming. Actually there is a thing called Control Flow Guard (CFG) under Windows' Exploit Protection thing that can apparently cause some DX12 games to stutter wildly. But you can disable that feature per application. I've only had to do this for one game so far (Indika).

Whats new in it is the UI. File explorer is tabbed, everything looks way nicer, theres more padding between things which is subjectively nicer IMO, says tray icons are tucked into a menu and you can configure which ones stay outside of it so it hides away the ones you dont use much, they ripped off Deepins application launcher for the start menu, etc.

It has its downsides, as the traditional context menu is hidden behind a less functional but subjectively better looking one, and the local search seems to suck but maybe thats setting related as I havent messed with it.

My new gaming PC is done! Windows 11 is alright (after some debloating lol), but this new Start Menu sucks

will be dual-booting Linux on this thing later, still in the tinkering phase

Yes, it is much better than the earlier versions.

FL81 posted...

My new gaming PC is done! Windows 11 is alright (after some debloating lol), but this new Start Menu sucks

will be dual-booting Linux on this thing later, still in the tinkering phase

I dont see why anyone gives a fuck what the Start Menu looks like. Whatever operating system I use, this is how I launch programs:

1. Hit key to open application menu or runner program. (On Windows or GNOME, this is the Super / Win key, on KDE its Super or Alt+Space depending, on macOS its Cmd+Space, etc.)
2. Start typing the name of the program I want.
3. When its at the top of the result list, hit Enter.

Ive been doing this since Windows 7 at the latest, probably Vista. Drilling into hierarchical menu structures with a mouse is glacially slow and incredibly inefficient in comparison.

The new Start Menu looks nicer than any previous one. I just dont have any particular reason to give a fuck what apps are pinned in there.

Also, if youre going to dual-boot, I advise installing a second SSD to install Linux on and setting that one as the primary boot device after you install Windows. The reason for this is that if the Windows drive is primary, every Windows update will make the Windows boot loader highest priority, whereas if Linux and its boot loader are on a separate drive, Windows updates cant fuck with it and Linuxs bootloaders have no trouble finding Windows.

If you dont do it that way, youre going to frequently have to fix things.

Always has been

It seems to be the same but marginally worse in almost every way to 10 if I were to judge from my laptop to PC.

PraetorXyn posted...

Also, if youre going to dual-boot, I advise installing a second SSD to install Linux on and setting that one as the primary boot device after you install Windows. The reason for this is that if the Windows drive is primary, every Windows update will make the Windows boot loader highest priority, whereas if Linux and its boot loader are on a separate drive, Windows updates cant fuck with it and Linuxs bootloaders have no trouble finding Windows.

On my laptop, I remember this wasn't too difficult to fix (more often than not, it was GRUB updates that ended up breaking things)

If you use Win 11, please explain the point of File Explorer tabs. I don't get the hype. It seems less useful than WordPad. Isn't it better to see the contents of multiple folders at the same time? Can you drag files between tabs? Can you drag the tabs out into their own windows (like web browser tabs?).

Windows 11 is good in fact it's one of the best windows versions since 7

tankboy posted...

If you use Win 11, please explain the point of File Explorer tabs. I don't get the hype. It seems less useful than WordPad. Isn't it better to see the contents of multiple folders at the same time? Can you drag files between tabs? Can you drag the tabs out into their own windows (like web browser tabs?).

Idk you should be using the Windows Terminal and WSL2 anyway so it doesn't matter

PraetorXyn posted...

Also, if youre going to dual-boot, I advise installing a second SSD to install Linux on and setting that one as the primary boot device after you install Windows. The reason for this is that if the Windows drive is primary, every Windows update will make the Windows boot loader highest priority, whereas if Linux and its boot loader are on a separate drive, Windows updates cant fuck with it and Linuxs bootloaders have no trouble finding Windows.

If you dont do it that way, youre going to frequently have to fix things.

This is 100% true I wish more people took this advice

It's amazing how Windows users continually botch the idea of "switching to Linux"

No one should be "switching to Linux". If you want to play games, then leave your Windows installation in tact.

Just throw in a separate SSD (SATA or NVMe, doesn't matter) and install Linux to it and try it for every non-gaming task. To be simple, grab the latest Ubuntu LTS which should be 24.04 at this point I think. Get a decent drive like a 1TB Crucial mx500 or similar. For good measure make sure your Windows drive is unplugged when you install Linux to your new drive.

And that's all you gotta do. When you want to play games, boot into Windows. Otherwise just use the Ubuntu. Or, just keep using Windows. The petty grievances that people have on every Windows OS update are always the most silly things. It's not that bad. Never has need. Don't like it? Get a Mac.

I daily drive all three (macOS, Linux, Windows) and have never had a single issue because I use each system and os for what it excels at. macOS daily drivers, Linux servers, Windows gaming PC. It's that simple.

LtZim posted...

Just throw in a separate SSD (SATA or NVMe, doesn't matter) and install Linux to it and try it for every non-gaming task. To be simple, grab the latest Ubuntu LTS which should be 24.04 at this point I think. Get a decent drive like a 1TB Crucial mx500 or similar. For good measure make sure your Windows drive is unplugged when you install Linux to your new drive.

How fast is the switch? Is each OS hibernating in between or rebooting? In my particular situation, even if it was fast, I wouldn't want to lose certain network connections for quick gaming break.

FL81 posted...

On my laptop, I remember this wasn't too difficult to fix (more often than not, it was GRUB updates that ended up breaking things)

Its not, but its annoyance most people dont know how to deal with and would blame Linux for.

tankboy posted...

How fast is the switch? Is each OS hibernating in between or rebooting? In my particular situation, even if it was fast, I wouldn't want to lose certain network connections for quick gaming break.

Its rebooting if you do dual boot, but by default Windows has fast boot turned on, so it basically hibernates when you turn it off anyway.

Dual booting is annoying IMO. If you want to use both, Id suggest installing Linux as your primary OS, then setting up a Windows VM with QEMU/KVM, and either use SR-IOV to share your discrete GPU with the VM or use PCIe Passthrough to pass your discrete GPU through to the VM (though you can only do this if you have another one for display, like the integrated graphics on a CPU or a second cheap discrete GPU). This takes more effort to setup but youll never lose network or have to reboot to switch platforms, and the performance loss is basically only the overhead of running a VM, as youre literally sharing a physical graphics card with it.

Though, for a Linux desktop, I wouldnt use anything but Arch or Arch-based. As everything else has an out of date kernel and thus out of date drivers.

PraetorXyn posted...

Its not, but its annoyance most people dont know how to deal with and would blame Linux for.

Windows does whatever it can to make the process the least smooth it can be, between bootloader shenanigans, Secure Boot still not working with most Linux distros, not being able to read ext4 partitions, etc

PraetorXyn posted...

Its rebooting if you do dual boot, but by default Windows has fast boot turned on, so it basically hibernates when you turn it off anyway.

Dual booting is annoying IMO. If you want to use both, Id suggest installing Linux as your primary OS, then setting up a Windows VM with QEMU/KVM, and either use SR-IOV to share your discrete GPU with the VM or use PCIe Passthrough to pass your discrete GPU through to the VM (though you can only do this if you have another one for display, like the integrated graphics on a CPU or a second cheap discrete GPU). This takes more effort to setup but youll never lose network or have to reboot to switch platforms, and the performance loss is basically only the overhead of running a VM, as youre literally sharing a physical graphics card with it.

Though, for a Linux desktop, I wouldnt use anything but Arch or Arch-based. As everything else has an out of date kernel and thus out of date drivers.

There are a number of ways to go about it, e.g. Linux with a Windows VM, there's running WSL, but I just prefer the "old" way of installing Windows first, then setting up a Linux partition on the disk itself.

This machine has a bunch of really new parts, so yeah I'm just going with EndeavourOS again. AMD rig this time so I'll finally give KDE/Wayland an honest shot. (although I really love Xfce, good chance I'll just end up back there )

Partitioning a single disk is by far the worst method. Your gonna end up with messed up partitions and boot loader BS because both os's, especially Windows, will always act like they're the only ones present. Just look at any Linux new user forum and it's endless posts by people who screwed up their partition

A SATA SSD is dirt cheap and your PC likely already has ports for it so just avoid the headache, get a separate disk and Ensure that the new os doesn't put boot files on the wrong disk by unplugging all disks except the one you're installing into

Telling new users to touch Arch-anything is horrible. Plain old vanilla Ubuntu has by far the most easily accessible support. Google any issue and there's a solution already on Stack Exchange. Especially relevant to sticking with LTS versions; 24.04, 22.04, etc.. LTS stands for "long term support" and that's what you want as a normal user. "Latest kernel" and "latest drivers" is a load of BS. You don't need the latest. You need the most stable and most compatible. That's what you get with LTS.

Going into anything Linux or anything dual boot and expecting that you're gonna have the same experience you get with plain single-install Windows is a huge mistake. This is not a drop-in replacement for your Windows. It's not a drop in upgrade for your PC. It's not going to be better in any possible way that what you have right now. Nothing is better with Linux. If you want a better desktop OS then you need to get macOS. If you want a better non-desktop OS then you get Linux. If you want to play games you use Windows. If you go into Linux thinking it's gonna be a free version of Windows you're gonna be in for a rude awakening and you're gonna have a bad time.

Personally, as a long time macOS and Linux user, I find that Windows 11 is the best version of Windows I've ever used. I'm continually impressed by it. The aesthetics finally have solid polishing, the new Windows Terminal ships by default, WSL2 is a breeze to install. Graphics support for stuff like HDR has gotten better. Everything just works. A lot of these were features generally available with Win10 and earlier but now it all comes out of the box. A lot more cohesion.

For context, I usually run Windows Pro, I don't touch Home versions at all.