Current Events > Canada seems up be moving towards less immigration?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The global right ward shift on immigration is disappointing

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/2f6d29ae.jpg

As global population increases it's inevitable. Australia is currently going through a housing and cost of living crisis, so objectively speaking the last thing we need is a population increase.

The difference between me and a racist right-winger though is that I make that statement in reference to anyone coming in, not just brown people.

Many countries have failed to build the additional housing needed to keep prices low. Sucks that this lack of building has ultimately led to a housing crisis, that's causing push back on immigration.

They only have 40 million to begin with. And those winters are not exactly inviting.

emblem-man posted...

Many countries have failed to build the additional housing needed to keep prices low.

And they allow corporations to own dozens or hundreds of properties only to keep them empty and overpriced.

Dark_Arbron posted...

As global population increases it's inevitable. Australia is currently going through a housing and cost of living crisis, so objectively speaking the last thing we need is a population increase.

If the Australian construction industry is anything like the American one, the people building homes are disproportionately immigrants. A slowdown in construction isn't going to make housing prices go down.

They really do need to secure their southern border

Canada doesn't even have the healthcare system to support the levels of immigration that have gone on in the last few years, let alone the housing.

It seems like most countries don't have the infrastructure to properly deal with any of this. People are just tossed wherever, not given the proper attention they should. We unfortunately cannot help everyone, so trying to step back, fix the system, and then control the numbers as needed is what everyone should be focusing on.

Dark_Arbron posted...

And they allow corporations to own dozens or hundreds of properties only to keep them empty and overpriced.

Corporations owning housing is an issue, but it's negligible as far as I'm concerned. Or at least, not a priority.

I dislike going hard on this because it leads some people to have blinders, leading to the wrong solutions to our most important problems.

For example

https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1848744328522301686?t=QtKPV5AfGy78y9UKbF7SLg&s=19

It sounds bad but then you realize that 300,000 is .3% of single family homes in the US.
Or that the 300,000 includes 140,000 multifamily apartments (who else would own large apartments ? It will be corporations or the government) and also includes student dorms.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/abb61745.jpg

And that whole corporation framing doesn't talk about the lack of housing supply or how regular home owners are largely the reason why building homes takes so long and is so expensive- restrictive zoning that is upheld by homeowners.

And the x vacant housing for every homeless is just wrong. A vacant house can be one that's unlivable, or is literally empty due to being in the process of a renter moving out and a new one moving in.

Seems ok to me; I like my immigrants I'm just saying that small temporary reductions are acceptable

...

Unless this is signalling that we're not taking in refugees from the Trump regime

Antifar posted...

If the Australian construction industry is anything like the American one, the people building homes are disproportionately immigrants. A slowdown in construction isn't going to make housing prices go down.

Speaking of which, over the past couple of years we've had some major builders go under. At this point everything is fucked.

are they going to build a wall

lol

Nemu posted...

It seems like most countries don't have the infrastructure to properly deal with any of this. People are just tossed wherever, not given the proper attention they should. We unfortunately cannot help everyone, so trying to step back, fix the system, and then control the numbers as needed is what everyone should be focusing on.

Most likely what will happen is, they won't actually make the changes needed to build infrastructure and housing needed. And these temporary changes will become permanent and the status quo becomes "immigrants are too expensive".

Immigration is just a scapegoat and not what's increasing the cost of housing.

Enclave posted...

Immigration is just a scapegoat and not what's increasing the cost of housing.

Correct.

It is absolutely a scapegoat, but it's looking to be a very effective scapegoat

BBC touched on this. Canada is dealing with the pretty severe housing crisis and 97% of the population growth in the last year was immigration. They're calling this a temporary pause so they can actually build the housing for these people rather than just letting them in and instantly making them or somebody else homeless.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd7n3rqyjqzo

The vast majority of Canadas population growth last year - about 97% - was driven by immigration, according to federal data.

At the same time, Canadas unemployment rate has increased to 6.5% and stands at over 14% for young people.

Trudeau and his government have been criticised for increasing immigration without bolstering services or housing construction, and economists have warned that Canada's rapidly growing population has put a strain on housing and public services like healthcare.

It's fine if you want to help people, but if your country is dealing with rising unemployment and a housing shortage, dialing back the source of 97% of your population growth is a perfectly reasonable thing. Resources aren't infinite and at some point you actually do have to prioritize the people already in your country.

emblem-man posted...

It is absolutely a scapegoat, but it's looking to be a very effective scapegoat

Because people are getting inundated with right wing bullshit in the media.

This is pandering to the right. JT isn't well-liked right now, and this won't fix it either. He's cooked.

But perhaps we can let some of the good ones in if Dumpy gets in. Perhaps you guys can talk our chuds out of letting Poilievre become PM.

Enclave posted...

Immigration is just a scapegoat and not what's increasing the cost of housing.

it's not totally a scapegoat.

people need places to live (and other infrastructure, services, etc). as population goes up, you need even more places for them to live. a lot of canada's population growth is immigration.

Yes, one possible solution is to build more places to live. I like this option for sure. But given that this is not really happening, another possible solution is to reduce the population growth. calling it a scapegoat implies it's mostly unrelated, which isn't totally true, it's just an option that doesn't fit well with socially progressive policies

kirbymuncher posted...

it's not totally a scapegoat.

people need places to live (and other infrastructure, services, etc). as population goes up, you need even more places for them to live. a lot of canada's population growth is immigration.

Yes, one possible solution is to build more places to live. I like this option for sure. But given that this is not really happening, another possible solution is to reduce the population growth. calling it a scapegoat implies it's mostly unrelated, which isn't totally true, it's just an option that doesn't fit well with socially progressive policies

It's a scapegoat, the housing costs in Canada has been on a sharp incline for well over a decade. People blaming immigration is on the other hand is comparatively recent.

Enclave posted...

People blaming immigration is on the other hand is comparatively recent.

I don't think that's totally true, people here have been complaining about the chinese buying all the houses for what feels like forever now (whether this is actually true or not is beside the point, I'm just saying it's not a new sentiment)

really I wish they'd just build more. I'm living with my parents since cost and availability of housing is just so bad atm

I mean you cant also have an open border since resources are finite. Also a lot of Muslim extremist seem to be coming in as well. Common sense immigration laws shouldn't be a left vs wing thing.

The water wars haven't even started yet. Climate change hasn't even started to bite. If the entire West is gonna vote far right or fascist over the immigration we're seeing so far, just wait until the 2040s-2070s. It's gonna be downright dystopian.

kirbymuncher posted...

I don't think that's totally true, people here have been complaining about the chinese buying all the houses for what feels like forever now (whether this is actually true or not is beside the point, I'm just saying it's not a new sentiment)

really I wish they'd just build more. I'm living with my parents since cost and availability of housing is just so bad atm

I mean, Austin is like the one city where rents are decreasing because they've been building housing. NIMBYs are a plague

JuanCarlos1 posted...

I mean you cant also have an open border since resources are finite. Also a lot of Muslim extremist seem to be coming in as well. Common sense immigration laws shouldn't be a left vs wing thing.

2016-present has proved that domestic conservative extremism is the actual threat. This isn't the Bush era.

I will say it's been pretty wild watching places like Tim Hortons go from being staffed by older people + students to middle-aged Filipino women to almost exclusively Indian students + immigrants in the span of only like 15 years.

Canada never has a firm stance on anything.

kirbymuncher posted...

I don't think that's totally true, people here have been complaining about the chinese buying all the houses for what feels like forever now (whether this is actually true or not is beside the point, I'm just saying it's not a new sentiment)

really I wish they'd just build more. I'm living with my parents since cost and availability of housing is just so bad atm

That wasn't from immigration, people were complaining about people in China buying up housing as an investment and then not actually living in the houses.

Who posted

If anything the property tax of unlived in houses should be increased, since there is no occupant who partakes in the local economy - which is part of the total tax revenue.

My city keeps expanding outward in big ways because of just how many houses are getting built, and prices are still such that the only reason Im able to afford rent is because Im renting a basement from friends who havent increased rent in the 6 or 7 years Ive lived there, and I have a roommate.

Lokarin posted...

If anything the property tax of unlived in houses should be increased, since there is no occupant who partakes in the local economy - which is part of the total tax revenue.

On that we can agree. Rich assholes who have three homes should definitely be taxed harshly for the amount of time they dont even use those homes.

Canada's population growth is not sustainable at this pace, so something has to be done. The government has been using immigration as a quick fix to boost the economy, but the cracks are definitely showing with health care and housing costs. People are not coming to Canada to live in the prairies of Alberta, they are moving to the greater Toronto area. It's going to hit a breaking point.

LonelyStoner posted...

On that we can agree. Rich assholes who have three homes should definitely be taxed harshly for the amount of time they dont even use those homes.

+1

A huge part of the problem is the rich (as always) owning unoccupied properties as "assets." Something you'd think the government should be addressing in the middle of an overpopulation crisis.

Yeah so don't comment on this unless you know the situation in Canada.

We have this completely fucked up thing called the temporary foreign worker system. A company just needs to submit a sham analysis that they can't find a resident to fill a position, then they're allowed to hire a foreign worker instead on a permit.

Currently, minimum wage jobs across all major cities are being staffed by foreign workers. This is on top of the unchecked immigration of millions of people since 2020 (primarily from one or two regions in India, Canada doesn't even attempt to keep a ratio of origin countries).

The end result is hundreds of thousands of people in city centers can't find even the shittiest of jobs, there aren't enough places to live, there aren't enough health care resources, and our transit infrastructure couldn't even cope with our population 10 years ago let alone now.

So yeah, immigration needs to go down. To zero or a negative number really, but no one will do that.

opopopza posted...

Canada's population growth is not sustainable at this pace, so something has to be done. The government has been using immigration as a quick fix to boost the economy, but the cracks are definitely showing with health care and housing costs. People are not coming to Canada to live in the prairies of Alberta, they are moving to the greater Toronto area. It's going to hit a breaking point.

Ontario may get a larger total, but Alberta still gets a massive amount. Apparently they had the largest increase by percentage last year.

Saskatchewan's growth was 2.5% in the last year but the Sask Party has been fucking terrible and not a lot of people necessarily WANT to move here, but our population is at a record high of 1.3 million.

But A LOT of it is situated here in Saskatoon and the provincial government is failing to really help any sort of growth in important areas like schools and health care. We actually have less doctors right now than in previous years despite the highest provincial population ever cause our system for doctors is SO BAD.

We have a provincial election happening right now so hopefully we can get the Sask Party the fuck out and the NDP can try to improve things.

It's not surprising given liberals love buying into right wing talking points.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

It's not surprising given liberals love buying into right wing talking points.

To be fair, the Liberals are historically not even REALLY centrists, they are slightly right of center traditionally, especially economically. Social policies they tend to usually drift a bit more left.

rick_alverado posted...

My city keeps expanding outward in big ways because of just how many houses are getting built, and prices are still such that the only reason Im able to afford rent is because Im renting a basement from friends who havent increased rent in the 6 or 7 years Ive lived there, and I have a roommate.

I promise you, they aren't actually building enough still.

I don't see what's right wing about this. I support expanded safety nets, but that's mutually exclusive to ballooning the population and making more people need those nets

emblem-man posted...

I promise you, they aren't actually building enough still.

What amount would be enough?

rick_alverado posted...

What amount would be enough?

I assume it's not enough because very few places are actually building enough.
But generally, you want a high vacancy rate because high vacancy rates tend to mean lower housing costs. Most cities are at record low vacancy rates

I'm canadian and this has been a issue for years. The city I use to live in is one of the most populated cities for immigration in the country, I had to quit my old full-time job due to the congestion of international students clogging up the transit system.

It's to little to late to fix the problem the liberal party here is scrambling to fix problems they created over the last 8 years.

apocalyptic_4 posted...

I'm canadian and this has been a issue for years. The city I use to live in is one of the most populated cities for immigration in the country, I had to quit my old full-time job due to the congestion of international students clogging up the transit system.

It's to little to late to fix the problem the liberal party here is scrambling to fix problems they created over the last 8 years.

That is one of the dumbest, shittiest excuses for quitting a job that I've ever heard of. What?

Xenogears15 posted...

That is one of the dumbest, shittiest excuses for quitting a job that I've ever heard of. What?

This. It's not the fault of immigration if public transit is failing.

Teenagers here cant even get their first job anymore because international students on sketchy visas take all the jobs.

This isnt the fake immigration crisis that the GOP parrots in the US. Its a legit problem here.

Xenogears15 posted...

That is one of the dumbest, shittiest excuses for quitting a job that I've ever heard of. What?

I'm not blaming immigration the route I took to work was alongside a college that was taking in a record amount of students back in 2017 and 2018. The city didn't have extra busses running during rush hour so I was late for work waiting for a bus that wasn't packed. That contributed to me leaving the job because the commute was to much.

That's only one of the many issues with the city and schools taking in to much students which have all been reported on the news.