Current Events > What's up with young men being more conservative?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is it the chickens coming to roost from "manosphere" influencers? Backlash against feminism?

I wonder what the political divide between young men and women (if what I hear is true) may have on the future of dating and marriage.

Hold my beer energy

Duh thats exactly what happened.

We just had a topic about how Kim and Kanyes son got caught up in red pill brain rot memes

They feel threatened by equity.
Also, they misinterpret the stuff about white/male/etc privilege as an attack on them.

Jabodie posted...

Is it the chickens coming to roost from "manosphere" influencers? Backlash against feminism?

I wonder what the political divide between young men and women (if what I hear is true) may have on the future of dating and marriage.

Equality feels like oppression when you've been on top. And honestly, social media has a LOT to do with it. It's not just Andrew Tate and shit, this's just normalized by people telling them they'rre victimized and everyone's out after them.

Go check YT. The normie>Alt-Right pipeline is so very real. Kids are getting sucked into the anti-woke vortex. It's everywhere now.

Theyre the same type of people that do extremely stupid stuff like the Tide Pod challenge from several years ago.

Yes to both.

Unless Republicans make marriage and child-bearing compulsory, it's not going to help them find that wife they think they are entitled to.

Everyone blew their cheques on onlyfans and now they want revenge

I'm 27 and I get more progressive every year. This society is brutally inequal.

That being said, I feel a lot of young, socially isolated men listen to Tate bs that blames women and liberalism for them being lonely and not getting any.

Lots of reasons. Social media is probably the biggest one though.

DarkAssassin89 posted...

Lots of reasons. Social media is probably the biggest one though.

Pretty sure identity politics is dead for the foreseeable future right now

I guess my follow up is... what do we do now? I guess I'll never understand how to convince people in the alt right pipeline. In some ways (certainly not all) it feels the same as arguing with a flat earther. To get there in the first place, all credible sources of evidence have to have been dismissed as false by the person you're dealing with. And all your left with is "bro, the earth simply isn't flat."

Idk if that made any sense, but it is how the shift right in young men has made me feel. But more in terms of a stark difference in values than dismissing all science and critical thinking.

Hyena_Of_Ice posted...

Also, they misinterpret the stuff about white/male/etc privilege as an attack on them.

What is it supposed to be?

social media brainrot

Probably rebellion to their parents. I bet it'll happen to them again in the next generation, then vice versa again

Less men going to college and being properly educated.

Hyena_Of_Ice posted...

they misinterpret the stuff about white/male/etc privilege as an attack on them.

This.

And if you're around the manosphere, those people amplify the worst of online discourse. And these people end up thinking that's what all Democrats think

Jabodie posted...

I guess my follow up is... what do we do now? I guess I'll never understand how to convince people in the alt right pipeline. In some ways (certainly not all) it feels the same as arguing with a flat earther. To get there in the first place, all credible sources of evidence have to have been dismissed as false by the person you're dealing with. And all your left with is "bro, the earth simply isn't flat."

Idk if that made any sense, but it is how the shift right in young men has made me feel. But more in terms of a stark difference in values than dismissing all science and critical thinking.

I don't know. One of the things we loved about Tim Walz was he really seemed to have an ability to reach these people. Turns out...

Jabodie posted...

I guess my follow up is... what do we do now?

We've already failed these young men and we just gave all the power to the people grooming them. It's too late, Trump and his ilk will implement policies at the expense of women because we couldn't bother to help young men.

emblem-man posted...

This.

And if you're around the manosphere, those people amplify the worst of online discourse. And these people end up thinking that's what all Democrats think

Trump can shit talk multiple American cities and he gets no push back.

A Democratic politician says something slightly negative about rural areas and it's all "Democrats don't understand the average working American".

A random online Twitter account says "white men suck" and the manosphere is putting out videos saying that "Democrats hate your kind"

Tmaster148 posted...

We've already failed these young men and we just gave all the power to the people grooming them. It's too late, Trump and his ilk will implement policies at the expense of women because we couldn't bother to help young men.

Well, there are more kids born in the world everyday. Not sure how to avoid the same pitfalls with them.

Jabodie posted...

Well, there are more kids born in the world everyday. Not sure how to avoid the same pitfalls with them.

We simply won't. We've decided to let the toxic masculinity that was poisoning these young men take control of the country completely. There's no undo from this point on.

As long there've been stories, lies and airwaves
What makes a man a man's been right up front
In visions boys are sold of what it could be
Grievance when it ain't like what they thought
When money and respect seemed to elude him
And being white alone don't make the ladies swoon
There's no shortage when it comes to hearing voices
Telling him it's him that's done it too

Say his trouble with the ladies can't be his fault
After all he's what it's natural they should want
There's just outside voices turning them against him
A conspiracy to water down his blood
A conspiracy to water down his blood
And it's all the fault of it, or them, or they
Give a boy a target for his grievance
And he might get it in his head they need to pay

Yeah, giving boys targets for their grievance
And then mocking those who bear the pain they cause
It takes a certain special kind of something
To cash the cheque it brings and sweep it off

The demonizing of the troubled mind
With all the usual suspects on the scene
Merchants selling young men reclamation
Merchants selling old men back their dreams

Oh, suspended disbelief and wishful thinking
Comes the vision of a special hell for con-ers
Who sell the marks the doubt it even happened
An eternity for every tear they've mocked
An eternity for every tear they've mocked
May the price of freedom finally be their own
May our thought and our prayers keep them company
As they wallow in their helplessness alone
May our thought and our prayers keep them company
As they wallow in their helplessness alone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ50hC3FpqY

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

What is it supposed to be?

It's not a zero sum world

Young men got caught up in some weird transitional period between patriarchy and feminism where toxic masculinity is discouraged during their formative years yet rewarded by society at-large, and they ended up very pissed about following the rules but getting worse results than the guys who didn't. That's what fuels the manosphere backlash.

There's a hope among them that Trump's continued wins especially rip the veil off of a society and show that scumbaggery is still law, contrary to the values young men are (falsely in their view) raised to believe.

Diceheist posted...

Young men got caught up in some weird transitional period between patriarchy and feminism where toxic masculinity is discouraged during their formative years yet rewarded by society at-large, and they ended up very pissed about following the rules but getting worse results than the guys who didn't. That's what fuels the manosphere backlash.

There's a hope among them that Trump's continued wins especially rip the veil off of a society and show that scumbaggery is still law, contrary to the values young men are (falsely in their view) raised to believe.

this is well put and accurate. I'm not sure how we counter it.

emblem-man posted...

It's not a zero sum world

That really doesn't tell me anything.

LightSnake posted...

this is well put and accurate. I'm not sure how we counter it.

They in revenge mode now. Hard to stop that

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

That really doesn't tell me anything.

I think the rhetoric online is horrid and the rhetoric spreads to easily into the mainstream, causing people to think it is what Democratic politicians think.

Yet, I also really don't think people should see that discourse and think that they are specifically being targeted though. I understand why they might think so and internalize it, and unfortunately I don't see how Democrats can separate themselves from the worst online discourse

Dyinglegacy posted...

They in revenge mode now. Hard to stop that

I guess we see what happens with the coming Trump revanchism

i blame Andrew Tate and other online personalities like him for disseminating that red pill alpha male bullshit...

ai123 posted...

Yes to both.

Unless Republicans make marriage and child-bearing compulsory, it's not going to help them find that wife they think they are entitled to.

They will take it by force and women will be punished for resisting.

Never underestimate the influence of MAGA parents on their kids. They've had over 8 years now to brainwash them good, starting at an impressionable age.

emblem-man posted...

I think the rhetoric online is horrid and the rhetoric spreads to easily into the mainstream, causing people to think it is what Democratic politicians think.

Yet, I also really don't think people should see that discourse and think that they are specifically being targeted though. I understand why they might think so and internalize it, and unfortunately I don't see how Democrats can separate themselves from the worst online discourse

So if it's not an attack, what is it supposed to be?

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I've been looking at it wrong because CE gonna CE but I still don't have an alternate explanation.

LeoRavus posted...

Never underestimate the influence of MAGA parents on their kids. They've had over 8 years now to brainwash them good, starting at an impressionable age.

The other half of this is that young women lean left heavily. There is definitively a gender dynamic here.

Diceheist posted...

Young men got caught up in some weird transitional period between patriarchy and feminism where toxic masculinity is discouraged during their formative years yet rewarded by society at-large, and they ended up very pissed about following the rules but getting worse results than the guys who didn't. That's what fuels the manosphere backlash.

There's a hope among them that Trump's continued wins especially rip the veil off of a society and show that scumbaggery is still law, contrary to the values young men are (falsely in their view) raised to believe.

I mean yeah. They literally just watched a dude who insults everyone and has gotten away with rape get elected president again. They're not going to buy "actually you need to reject all that toxic masculinity". If anything this is going to reinforce their belief in the grifters.

And the discourse coming from progressive areas isn't attracting them at all and I am honestly not sure how it can. I think rebranding is probably needed. Toxic masculinity needs to go as a word. As does feminism helps men too. It's not working. Keep the same concepts but rebrand. Not sure what the best way to do it is, but the well is poisoned at this point sadly.

Diceheist posted...

Young men got caught up in some weird transitional period between patriarchy and feminism where toxic masculinity is discouraged during their formative years yet rewarded by society at-large, and they ended up very pissed about following the rules but getting worse results than the guys who didn't. That's what fuels the manosphere backlash.

There's a hope among them that Trump's continued wins especially rip the veil off of a society and show that scumbaggery is still law, contrary to the values young men are (falsely in their view) raised to believe.

Thats actually quite a well described analysis of the situation. Id never considered it in those terms but it makes a lot of sense the way you break it down.

Diceheist posted...

Young men got caught up in some weird transitional period between patriarchy and feminism where toxic masculinity is discouraged during their formative years yet rewarded by society at-large, and they ended up very pissed about following the rules but getting worse results than the guys who didn't. That's what fuels the manosphere backlash.

There's a hope among them that Trump's continued wins especially rip the veil off of a society and show that scumbaggery is still law, contrary to the values young men are (falsely in their view) raised to believe.

This is an interesting idea. I can kind of see interpreting the world that way. Certainly at college age "good behavior" was not the way to get ahead socially. But my behavior was more about my values than results. But I remember having some bitter years myself.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

So if it's not an attack, what is it supposed to be?

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I've been looking at it wrong because CE gonna CE but I still don't have an alternate explanation.

Some of it is an attack. I just think people are incorrectly ascribing it to the Democratic leaders in power who don't say those things

emblem-man posted...

Some of it is an attack. I just think people are incorrectly ascribing it to the Democratic leaders in power who don't say those things

Its true that some of the discourse aims more to bring young men down rather than raising women up. Trying to equalize things that way is never going to work out for anyone. However, this is just a small part of the movement that should be ignored.

Unfortunately, social media influencers pounce on this and convince young men that this is the message from anyone on the progressive side.

When you have influencers like Andrew Tate, JonTron, and the Paul Brothers existing and being an outlook for young men, this is what happens in the end.

The men felt they were being left out and got angry over it. I remember even some sites talking about it and it felt more like "we need their votes" than "these people need help".

The internet culture of blaming men for everything and nobody even bothering to defend them didn't help. And keep in mind it isn't just a specifically USA thing, shit is much worse in South Korea.

All they had to do was show a modicum of compassion towards the struggles of young men.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

What is it supposed to be?

a condemnation on cultural/societal behaviors, not necessarily the individuals therein

im a white dude and i never felt criticized by those attacks bc i know they dont apply to me, and i empathize with those expressing those sentiments

Dungeater posted...

im a white dude and i never felt criticized by those attacks bc i know they dont apply to me

Do they not? How so?

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

Do they not? How so?

i dont understand the question

if someone says "white men should stop doing X" and i already dont do X, thats how i know it doesnt apply to me

Dungeater posted...

i dont understand the question

if someone says "white men should stop doing X" and i already dont do X, thats how i know it doesnt apply to me

Weren't we talking about the privilege thing?

I don't believe young men are more conservative, but I do think a lot of the support systems that keep people upright have been failing or on the verge of failing for decades.

Communities are rotting, in the great enshittification era, people fall through the gaps, are invisible, feel worthless and without a clear direction towards self-actualization instead of - if they're lucky - a soulcrushing 9-5 that pays the bills but doesn't fulfil the spirit.

Enough fall through and the system fails. Is failing.