Current Events > Issues where you disagree with your own party?

(+) Yeah! (+)

InfinityMonster posted...

Yeah, in February 2024, after several years of record shattering numbers, and only when the polls were looking bad for Biden. A bill with numerous issues, and where going by CBP numbers, would not have triggered the restrictions between February and June. Hence the eventual EO in June with 2.5k (vs 5k), which was stronger, but far too late.

Biden's insane numbers and shit handling are indisputable. Obama handled it infinitely better than Biden. Biden is the one who immediately removed every restriction Trump had put. Gaslighting people about this clearly failed.

Okay, now let's talk about how Trump removed Obama-era gun restriction rules, or how Congressional Republicans voted against the border bill (while claiming Democrats don't care about that stuff). Oh, right. You don't want to admit the bad things your side did/does, do you? You just want to point fingers at everyone else.

I'm registered as Independent, but I've voted exclusively for Democrats.

The biggest thing they are getting wrong in my area is around the migrant issue. I live in one of the most expensive areas of the country, and we've seen a big influx in migrants recently. Housing costs are insane, and I think Democrats don't understand how unpopular giving free housing to migrants is. Or letting them sleep and live in public areas, like our airport is train stations.

Any criticism is being met with 'you're racist' or 'you have no sympathy.' I don't think Republicans have any sort of real plan to address the problem either, but at least they acknowledge there is a problem.

just came in to say you are absolutely wrong about standardized testing--it's one of the least equitable ways to address higher education.

high school grades are simply a better metric.

Too many Democrats are just A-OK with illegal immigration to the point that they're deaf to why legal immigrants would be annoyed about those who just skipped the whole process.

darkbuster posted...

Too many Democrats are just A-OK with illegal immigration to the point that they're deaf to why legal immigrants would be annoyed about those who just skipped the whole process.

Thing is, they're not a-ok with illegal immigration. The politicians, at least. The average Democrat voters seems to be 50/50 on it. Unfortunately, that's the narrative the Republicans weaved, and the Democrats did nothing to publicly show how much of a lie it is.

Im left wing, but I am in favor of charter schools. I understand the concerns with them, but having had fantastic experiences both attending them and working at them, I dont want to see them burned down.

opopopza posted...

The biggest thing they are getting wrong in my area is around the migrant issue. I live in one of the most expensive areas of the country, and we've seen a big influx in migrants recently. Housing costs are insane, and I think Democrats don't understand how unpopular giving free housing to migrants is. Or letting them sleep and live in public areas, like our airport is train stations.

The law currently prevents asylum seekers from getting work authorization for the first couple months; what alternative is there to free housing or living in public areas for people who, by law, can't earn an income?

Undocumented immigrants make up 10-20 percent of the construction workforce; jettisoning them will raise, not lower, housing costs.

InfinityMonster posted...

Obama handled it infinitely better than Biden.

There were real human costs to Obama's handling of the issue.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/12/obama-immigration-deportations-central-america

Immigration experts believe that the Guardians findings represent just the tip of the iceberg. A forthcoming academic study based on local newspaper reports has identified as many as 83 US deportees who have been murdered on their return to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras since January 2014.

Human rights groups warn that deterrent measures taken by the Obama administration after last years surge in arrivals at the border of unaccompanied children from Central America have triggered a series of powerful unintended consequences across the region.

The number of migrants crossing the US border with Mexico unlawfully has declined sharply this year. But the increasingly militarized surveillance and patrol of the southern frontier has forced migrants to take ever greater risks in the routes they choose. And although fewer people are attempting to enter from Mexico, the death rate among those trying has gone up, activists say.

How many more people should Biden have sent to their deaths?

Antifar posted...

That's not a problem that can be solved through "better messaging" then. If the media is going to supplant the views of activists for the views and actions of party officials, it doesn't really matter what the party officials do and say.

Also, not for nothing, but 2020 when BLM protests took place and calls to defund the police were loudest is the best electoral result Democrats have had at the federal level since 2008. How sure are we that it was an electoral anchor?

I think the party officials toe the line too much when it comes to certain things. Maybe they should shut down some of that talk, rather than trying to moderate it and downplay the severity of it amongst certain members in their party. That, and probably going to an alternate media ecosystem might help - it's clear now that the right-wingers have so much of their own media apparatus that left-wingers need one too.

Democrats won in 2020 because Trump handled COVID-19 terribly, but even in 2020, Trump earned a bigger share of the vote with minority groups than he did in 2016. 2024 wasn't the start of something new, it was a continuation of what we already saw - the GOP is making gains amongst working-class voters of all ethnic backgrounds and Democrats aren't doing enough to win them back. There's a reason the "defund the police" has almost been excised from the Democratic party entirely.

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And those aren't really "far-left" policies...they're centrist Democrat policies.

Robot2600 posted...

just came in to say you are absolutely wrong about standardized testing--it's one of the least equitable ways to address higher education.

high school grades are simply a better metric.

No, they are not. School grades are meaningless. Pressure from parents and administration has led to widespread grade inflation that makes comparing students within a given school to be an exercise in futility, to say nothing of comparing students across schools. Nowadays, it's exceedingly rare for students to earn grades that are below B's, even when they absolutely deserve them - between shit like "class participation" (which is frankly meaningless and just an artificial weight) and "homework" (which is meaningless because of ChatGPT), kids are earning grades that aren't reflective of their test scores. CNN termed this phenomenon "B-flation", basically meaning that teachers give out a lot more B's than they used to. Of course, it doesn't address the reason they do so (meddling parents and administrators who side with the parents).

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/us/child-progress-beyond-grades/index.html

This is common in all schools, but it's most common in wealthy schools, because parents there have a lot more influence and can pull a lot more weight when it comes to getting a teacher fired for a kid's bad grade.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

There's a reason the "defund the police" has almost been excised from the Democratic party entirely.

In almost every city with Democratic mayors, police funding has gone up over the last four years. Biden has vocally backed more funding for cops, and did so in 2020. There was never any serious push from Democratic officials to remove power from police forces.

How do you square all this and your belief that "it has been excised from the party entirely" with your belief that it is costing them votes? What more could they do, in your eyes?

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First, you should learn how to spell "centrist."

Second of all, do you honestly think that it is "far-left" Democrats that are opposing the constructing of affordable housing? I do agree that some of these folks may have far-left social views, but they're not your "far-left" Democrats - I think we can all agree that the likes of Bernie Sanders would be an example of as left as Democrats could get, and he's hardly leading the charge against affordable housing.

Antifar posted...

In almost every city with Democratic mayors, police funding has gone up over the last four years. Biden has vocally backed more funding for cops, and did so in 2020. There was never any serious push from Democratic officials to remove power from police forces.

How do you square all this and your belief that "it has been excised from the party entirely" with your belief that it is costing them votes? What more could they do, in your eyes?

I'm not sure, other than get people to stop saying it entirely. It really does poison the well, and Democrats always have to answer for their craziest left-wingers whereas Republicans don't since their party is run by the craziest right-wingers

SSj4Wingzero posted...

I'm not sure, other than get people to stop saying it entirely

That cannot be a strategy. You cannot expect every activist to act as unpaid operatives of the Democratic Party.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

Democrats always have to answer for their craziest left-wingers whereas Republicans don't since their party is run by the craziest right-wingers

If we are taking this imbalance as a given, you can't work around it, because there will always be some "crazy" Fox can point to. You have to change the media enviroment.

Antifar posted...

If we are taking this imbalance as a given, you can't work around it, because there will always be some "crazy" Fox can point to. You have to change the media enviroment.

Yep. Dem leadership needs to just be out in social media a lot more. Leadership needs to take the spotlight rather than online activists

emblem-man posted...

Yep. Dem leadership needs to just be out in social media a lot more.

I think they're on social media plenty (maybe Biden aside). But it doesn't and can't make a dent on platforms owned by Musk and Zuckerburg.

The money Democrats spent on campaigning would be better spent on party-run outlets.

Antifar posted...

I think they're on social media plenty (maybe Biden aside). But it doesn't and can't make a dent on platforms owned by Musk and Zuckerburg.

The money Democrats spent on campaigning would be better spent on party-run outlets.

What are party run outlets?

emblem-man posted...

What are party run outlets?

I'm thinking he means the equivalent of a left-wing version of Turning Point USA and all the shit that right-wingers watch. The key thing here is the right-wing has spent billions of dollars and resources creating a media ecosystem that caters specifically to their viewpoints and pushes a specific narrative.

Could the left-wing do something similar? I suppose it is *possible* but it is going to be much more difficult - the big corporations are all in the pockets of the Republican party and even if you were able to create a left-wing media ecosystem, it'd probably be center-right on economic issues and left on social issues because that's where your big money donors are going to stand - the big money donors in the Democratic party are not the ones who will push for affordable housing and healthcare, they're the ones who are on board with a Republican tax and economic policy, just with progressive social policy.

How can the Democrats actually implement some sort of grassroots-style media ecosystem focused on quality of life issues pertaining to the average American? I don't know. Hideo Kojima predicted the shitty world we'd be in around 20 years ago and I don't have an answer for you.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

How can the Democrats actually implement some sort of grassroots-style media ecosystem focused on quality of life issues pertaining to the average American?

I don't think they can. How do you make an entertainment network that's based on talking about positive quality of life issues?

I think they just have to take over and start going on the existing networks

SSj4Wingzero posted...

the big corporations are all in the pockets of the Republican party and even if you were able to create a left-wing media ecosystem, it'd probably be center-right on economic issues and left on social issues because that's where your big money donors are going to stand

Right, you can't rely on corporations to do it. The Democratic Party is the largest institution with the incentives to put out its own message. They need to be the messenger on these issues because the NYT won't do it for them.

emblem-man posted...

How do you make an entertainment network that's based on talking about positive quality of life issues?

It doesn't have to be an entertainment network: local news outlets, which could once be expected to investigate say, state house corruption, or local-level impacts of policy, have been dying, which leaves people with few alternatives to national outlets and certainly much less knowledge about the impacts of government.

Picture Sinclair, but good.

emblem-man posted...

I don't think they can. How do you make an entertainment network that's based on talking about positive quality of life issues?

I think they just have to take over and start going on the existing networks

They try. Pete Buttigieg goes on Fox News all the time. The problem is, at the end of the day, there will always be some delusional 23-year-old who says some shit like "The NBA is sexist because no women play in the NBA" for clicks and attention, and the media will make sure to play that up as left-wing policy even when no major left-wing figures actually embrace that policy.

I suppose the main downside of social media giving everybody a voice is that some people are delusional.

Antifar posted...

Right, you can't rely on corporations to do it. The Democratic Party is the largest institution with the incentives to put out its own message. They need to be the messenger on these issues because the NYT won't do it for them.

Yeah. The key is branding it. Trump, for all of his fucking flaws (and there are many), is a master of branding, and the Democrats need to learn from him.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

They try. Pete Buttigieg goes on Fox News all the time. The problem is, at the end of the day, there will always be some delusional 23-year-old who says some shit like "The NBA is sexist because no women play in the NBA" for clicks and attention, and the media will make sure to play that up as left-wing policy even when no major left-wing figures actually embrace that policy.

I suppose the main downside of social media giving everybody a voice is that some people are delusional.

We gotta flood that shit. Constantly doing the podcasts round. Make it so people don't associate those kinds of parts with Democrats. It'll just take time

emblem-man posted...

We gotta flood that shit. Constantly doing the podcasts round. Make it so people don't associate those kinds of parts with Democrats. It'll just take time

Time isn't exactly something we have an abundance of.

Rai_Jin posted...

penalizing rich people directly leads to uplifting other people.

And I mean shaky I'll concede when we all share a hobby which is costly.

Though I argue the problem with the 1% is not just leaving their buying at practical things or luxury with sentimental value. More about spending it solely on things just to prove they're rich instead of being content with having enough to cover practical and sentimental stuff for the rest of their lives.

Especially if they are riches that require money to be maintained and stored in larger structures.

At the very least, it would be like me buying original older comics over trades/HC just for the bragging rights. Or buying issues where the writing holds no appeal for the sake of a complete set.

Too many Democratically run cities are corrupt shitshows that need a massive overhaul, ESPECIALLY regarding housing here where NIMBY-ism has completely strangled growth and lives.

LightSnake posted...

Too many Democratically run cities are corrupt shitshows that need a massive overhaul, ESPECIALLY regarding housing here where NIMBY-ism has completely strangled growth and lives.

This is probably the biggest area where Democrats must change and change quickly. Nobody wants Democrats to deliver on housing in DC if they can't even get anywhere close in NYC and SF

Im a registered Democrat so a lot lol.

Democrats have been very adamant about protecting the status quo, despite said status quo benefiting almost no one in our society.

Were also terrible with human rights, were just not Republicans so people give us a pass.

Capital punishment and gun ownership. Pretty much it.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

This is probably the biggest area where Democrats must change and change quickly. Nobody wants Democrats to deliver on housing in DC if they can't even get anywhere close in NYC and SF

For some reason Austin is one of the few cities to NOT do this. They like...build housing. Rents are falling there

TyVulpine posted...

Okay, now let's talk about how Trump removed Obama-era gun restriction rules, or how Congressional Republicans voted against the border bill (while claiming Democrats don't care about that stuff). Oh, right. You don't want to admit the bad things your side did/does, do you? You just want to point fingers at everyone else.

What do guns have to do with this? We're taking about Biden's handling of the border and how the removal of those restrictions ended up causing the whole crisis.

I just explained the issues with the bill, which Biden completely undermined with his EO. If the bill was good, he would have used the 5k, not cut it in half to 2.5k.

Acknowledging these issues doesn't make someone a Republican.

Antifar posted...

The law currently prevents asylum seekers from getting work authorization for the first couple months; what alternative is there to free housing or living in public areas for people who, by law, can't earn an income?

Undocumented immigrants make up 10-20 percent of the construction workforce; jettisoning them will raise, not lower, housing costs.

This might make sense if like the majority were eligible for asylum, but only about 30% are approved, and that's for affirmative, which you have to come through a port for. The majority cross illegally, which is defensive, which has an approval rate of around 15%.

People don't want to blow billions in local and state taxpayer money like here in NYC on people that may be asylum seekers, especially while recovering from a pandemic. Nor do they want to import poverty from other countries and increase competition in the poorest neighborhoods.

Israel.

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This.

I also don't care for the whole supporting Palestinian genocide thing.

LightSnake posted...

For some reason Austin is one of the few cities to NOT do this. They like...build housing. Rents are falling there

And other cities have to emulate this because we're reaching critical mass.

NYC is the most egregious example - the city obviously lacks affordable housing yet every week a massive luxury condo or rental building goes up. Many of the ultra-expensive condo buildings in NYC have so many unsold units, yet developers keep building them because they'd rather hold out for some Middle Eastern oil billionaire to stash his cash in NYC real estate than build more housing units that would actually get sold