Current Events > Issues where you disagree with your own party?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Certainly most of us all have to admit that we vote for the party we like because we agree with them on most issues, but is there an issue that you think your party:

-Isn't doing enough to address?
OR
-Is addressing in the wrong way entirely?

I suppose I'll start. I'm now a registered Democrat, but I think the party isn't doing enough to address the cost of housing (giving first-time homebuyers a housing credit is more of band-aid type of situation). As to one thing I think that the party is addressing the wrong way...I don't know if *all* Democrats think this way, but I have seen a lot of left-wing posts say stuff like "standardized testing is racist and we should scrap it", and I think that's an entirely wrong approach to education - if anything, with the advent of AI and all of the advantages that wealthy students get, standardized testing is the most fair and equitable way to determine which kids are the most successful.

I wouldn't really say I have a "my" party, I switch around based on whoever has chances and a good candidate

But one thing I disagree with on all current parties is their unequivocal support of Netanyahu

teep_ posted...

I wouldn't really say I have a "my" party, I switch around based on whoever has chances and a good candidate

But one thing I disagree with on all current parties is their unequivocal support of Netanyahu

Then I guess we can change it to "what you disagree with about the party you last voted for?"

I think Democracy is important and that's why I changed my political affiliation from Republican to Democrat (amongst other reasons, but that was a big impetus), but I have to admit that there are areas where Democrats are either coming up short and getting away with the Republican being so shitty, or just wrong entirely.

I do agree re: Netanyahu. I don't know why "I support Israel's right to exist but its war in Gaza and against Lebanon has gone too far" is such a controversial take, but here we are

it's all a death spiral unless the superrich are taxed appropriately. It's a game of monopoly in the last stages.

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That's why I think the Dems don't go far enough - what we really need is strong anti-trust legislation to encourage competition (corporations will just pass higher costs onto consumers otherwise and there's no reason to affect their profit margin), and much more public housing where ownership is restricted to people with certain income levels only.

The party I usually vote for is anti-nuclear power and Im bonkers for it.

My main issues I think are with local Democratic governance. There should be a very clear goal of removing barriers to allow more housing and public infrastructure to be built, even if it means pissing off certain people. They care too much about getting community input instead of just doing the work

SSj4Wingzero posted...

but I have seen a lot of left-wing posts say stuff like "standardized testing is racist and we should scrap it"

Yeah, certain California and New York areas have been bad about this in regards to elite highschools and also math requirements for middle and high schools and it's given Democrats a very bad branding.
Such as trying to limit standardized testing to get into the schools and limiting how high of a math class students can take.

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This i definitely agree with

penalizing rich people directly leads to uplifting other people.

We gotta eat the rich otherwise this country is doomed

I hate the establishment Democrats because they're really just Republicans without the bigotry. Over the years I've gotten suspicious about their behavior. Are they really this stubborn to let go of the old ways? Or are they secretly helping the Republicans turn back time?

CADE_FOSTER posted...

We gotta eat the rich otherwise this country is doomed

The wealth gap in America is far too large and the cost of basic necessities (housing, food, transportation, education) is too fucking high. I'm not sure what the right fix for it is, but there has to be some sort of fix for it, because right now it's just ridiculous.

I gotta think that at some point it starts with building a shit-ton of housing and intentionally deflating the wealth of the landlord class

I truly dont thin the rich care we saw them building dooms day bunkers couple years back they will be safe and sound when the house of cards collapses

nocturnal_traveler posted...

I hate the establishment Democrats because they're really just Republicans without the bigotry. Over the years I've gotten suspicious about their behavior. Are they really this stubborn to let go of the old ways? Or are they secretly helping the Republicans turn back time?

The establishment Democrats are the ones that really make things difficult - they're probably the ones that are opposing affordable housing in NY/SF/LA/etc. - they're the ones who will focus on social issues and hold their nose on the economic issues.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

The establishment Democrats are the ones that really make things difficult - they're probably the ones that are opposing affordable housing in NY/SF/LA/etc. - they're the ones who will focus on social issues and hold their nose on the economic issues.

In the old days, Democrats and Republicans really were just two sides of the same coin. What if that never really changed? Progressive Democrats may be the counter argument to this, but who's holding the reins at the end of the day?

I'm not really a democrat, but I vote for them. I disagree with their approach to 2A issues. Do we need to do something to curb gun violence in the US? Yes. Has a democrat ever proposed a good solution? No.

Capital punishment and public transportation. I could also get behind the wealth tax concept tbh.

It pisses me off that politics is such a package deal.

Is there a more comprehensive list of 'issues' that we can answer for? cuz, like, there's so many but I'm drawing a blank.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

I do agree re: Netanyahu. I don't know why "I support Israel's right to exist but its war in Gaza and against Lebanon has gone too far" is such a controversial take, but here we are

My country recently changed the definition of anti-Semitism to include criticism of Israel and a lot of people, including news organisations and charities, are against it

I think the left goes a little too far in absolving people of responsibility. Oh you're struggling? It's racism, it's the rich, it's everything and everyone's fault but yours. I'm not saying that stuff isn't a major factor, or that the right isn't hypocritical with their bootstraps. However, taking ownership of your life goes a long way.

I don't like when the dems try to 'compromise' or 'find middle ground' with filthy goppers. This is why we're in the mess to begin with.

Xatrion posted...

I don't like when the dems try to 'compromise' or 'find middle ground' with filthy goppers. This is why we're in the mess to begin with.

On the flip side, it's really weird when the dems decide to fully capitulate but then the gop rejects it...

...why?

I don't have the list at hand but there's a lot that could be done better

but I point out that we only have two actual options to work with in the american system and it gets me labelled a liberal among other things :\

Dems shouldve federally legalized cannabis years ago.

Predatory student loans should be illegal and higher education should never cost as much as it does.

Lokarin posted...

On the flip side, it's really weird when the dems decide to fully capitulate but then the gop rejects it...

...why?

What counts as "fully capitulating"?

The Democrats are spineless cowards that won't do anything to actually address 90% of the issues that are plaguing the country because it would hurt the bottom line of their donors.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

What counts as "fully capitulating"?

in this context I'm referring to their 'ok, let's build the border wall" bill which the gop shot down

LonelyStoner posted...

Dems shouldve federally legalized cannabis years ago.

Why? We don't need stoned people operating vehicles on the freeway.

Anyway, I'm against abortion (but I'm not of the "your body my choice" crowd. Those people can F right off) despite tending to side with Democrats.

TyVulpine posted...

Why? We don't need stoned people operating vehicles on the freeway.

lol what a clownpost

you think if cannabis was federally legalized, that means people would be allowed to drive under the influence of it and there wouldn't be any regulations prohibiting that?

ask yourself, how does it work with alcohol?

TyVulpine posted...

Why? We don't need stoned people operating vehicles on the freeway.

DUI is already about the most actively punished thing you can do aside from murder or Rich Person Financial Crime Against Other Rich People. Not too fussed about that

SSj4Wingzero posted...

Then I guess we can change it to "what you disagree with about the party you last voted for?"

Oh boy, <_<

Almost literally everything in their entire manifesto.

They're just not as bad as the other guys

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Other than equal rights, when have Democrats ever proposed far left policies? The closest was AOCs New Green Deal, and that's because she's a Progressive, and that got shot down by both Republicans and establishment Democrats.

The Dems listen too much to the extreme left wing on generally unpopular social issues. Announcing your pronouns (which apparently AOC has actually removed from her Twitter bio), Latinx, taking a knee, supporting protestors while we were supposed to be in lockdown, not going far enough in calling out those who turned the protests into riots. All that stuff makes them look weak to middle America. How do I know that? More than half my family voted red and that's the kind of stuff they post about. That's the kind of stuff they need to change to change people's perception of them.
They don't do enough on border security and let the R's get away with claims they want open borders (some I'm sure do, but that's just a bad idea).
Aside from Obama, they've putting low energy candidates out since Bill Clinton. We need someone with that Howard Dean level energy.

Psyloshsr posted...

The Dems listen too much to the extreme left wing on generally unpopular social issues. Announcing your pronouns (which apparently AOC has actually removed from her Twitter bio), Latinx, taking a knee, supporting protestors while we were supposed to be in lockdown, not going far enough in calling out those who turned the protests into riots. All that stuff makes them look weak to middle America. How do I know that? More than half my family voted red and that's the kind of stuff they post about. That's the kind of stuff they need to change to change people's perception of them.
They don't do enough on border security and let the R's get away with claims they want open borders (some I'm sure do, but that's just a bad idea).
Aside from Obama, they've putting low energy candidates out since Bill Clinton. We need someone with that Howard Dean level energy.

This is why I've grown to distrust the Democratic party. It's like they're sabotaging actual progression on purpose by showing our sides loons in full display, keeping quiet about actual Democrat achievements, and hanging on to right wing ideals under the guise of bipartisanship.

I'm not particularly pro gun control since I grew up around guns

The whole condescending nature of the Dems

that crap wont win you any votes

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

The party I usually vote for is anti-nuclear power and Im bonkers for it.

this is exactly what I was going to say

Squall28 posted...

I think the left goes a little too far in absolving people of responsibility. Oh you're struggling? It's racism, it's the rich, it's everything and everyone's fault but yours. I'm not saying that stuff isn't a major factor, or that the right isn't hypocritical with their bootstraps. However, taking ownership of your life goes a long way.

This is so common in education nowadays that it's sad. I've had parents literally take their children out of school for 2 weeks to go on vacation (yes, when school is in session). The kid comes back and struggles in school (obviously, as you would if you missed 2 weeks) and then the parent actually calls us up and gets upset at us, asking "why we're not doing more" for her son. I've had conversations about students who literally don't do a single thing - they barely show up, they don't hand in any work, they don't make the slightest bit of effort, and of course they're jerks in class to their peers and to their teachers, and then the question is always "What are we doing to help him succeed?"

No, at some point it's the responsibility of the student to actually do something. You have the right to suck at school and not go to your college of choice if you so choose.

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Since when has anyone ever implemented "far-left" policies?

Psyloshsr posted...

The Dems listen too much to the extreme left wing on generally unpopular social issues. Announcing your pronouns (which apparently AOC has actually removed from her Twitter bio), Latinx, taking a knee, supporting protestors while we were supposed to be in lockdown, not going far enough in calling out those who turned the protests into riots. All that stuff makes them look weak to middle America. How do I know that? More than half my family voted red and that's the kind of stuff they post about. That's the kind of stuff they need to change to change people's perception of them.

Yeah. Too many left-wing commentators decided to defend slogans like "defund the police" and "abolish ICE" when that shit is very obviously not popular with the majority of Americans at large, and isn't even popular with the demographics that they're claiming to be in solidarity with. Most polling shows that Latino Americans very much are concerned about border security and Black Americans do still want police in their neighborhoods, and while I'd argue that the mainstream Democratic party certainly hasn't adopted those ideas, I don't think they do enough of a job shutting it down and bringing economic populist issues to the forefront. It's tough because they're scared of losing their base (just look at how many left-wingers refused to vote for Harris because of her stance on Gaza, even though Trump is far worse and supporting Hamas would've tanked any semblance of a campaign), so they have to toe the line, but they do it in the worst way possible by playing to identity politics and giving half-assed economic plans that don't address major issues.

I actually think that a left-wing economic populist agenda with moderate stances on social issues would be quite successful in this country but it seems as if nobody dares go there.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

This is why I've grown to distrust the Democratic party. It's like they're sabotaging actual progression on purpose by showing our sides loons in full display, keeping quiet about actual Democrat achievements, and hanging on to right wing ideals under the guise of bipartisanship.

Democrats didn't take the lesson of 2016 well. Trump won back a huge number of "blue wall" states in the electoral college and Democrats chalked it up to third-party voters and the electoral college, but it was a sign of a coming trend. 2020 Dems won back the White House by quite slim margins only after Trump presided horribly over a pandemic and apparently thought that Trump in 2016 was just an aberration - ignoring the fact that Trump actually increased his share of the popular vote in 2020 and performed much better than a President who presided over a failed pandemic policy *should* have performed. So of course they go in to 2024 thinking that there's no way Trump can win again but of course he does, and this time it's not even close either.

I'm still waiting for the day where we get policies that will provide tangible changes to quality of life - improving the quality and cost of housing, increasing the affordability of basic necessities, and promoting the public welfare. Right now it seems as if Dems' best solutions to these things are some tax credits here or there, which is probably why Trump's "burn it all to the ground" schtick actually resonates with voters.

No. We desperately need ranked voting. Ranked voting has been implemented in other countries. It says a lot that we do not have it in Illinois.

Even if I was chair of DNC, they would not be my party. There are historic cases where the democratic party has advanced issues for the common man but most of the support comes from the same place that Trump gets his.

Government is the bane and savior of the 99.99%. The rich and powerful have the most say in government. But a foot in the door is better than being outside.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Other than equal rights, when have Democrats ever proposed far left policies? The closest was AOCs New Green Deal, and that's because she's a Progressive, and that got shot down by both Republicans and establishment Democrats.

He said far left NIMBY policies. He's talking about anti housing policies that stop developers from building homes, which in turn keep housing supply low and expensive.
For example, neighborhoods that fight tooth and back from rezoning or from allowing apartments to be built in their area.
The kind of person who will have signs saying "no hate in this neighborhood", and then will attend town meetings to stop a new apartment complex from being built.

Or those who are against new home builds due to "gentrification", when building new homes is how to get home prices cheaper.

emblem-man posted...

He said far left NIMBY policies. He's talking about anti housing policies that stop developers from building homes, which in turn keep housing supply low and expensive.
For example, neighborhoods that fight tooth and back from rezoning or from allowing apartments to be built in their area.
The kind of person who will have signs saying "no hate in this neighborhood", and then will attend town meetings to stop a new apartment complex from being built.

I wasn't aware that these NIMBY policies were "far-left" - usually the NIMBY types I've met who are Democrats are your centrist Democrats who are all about racial equality but don't actually support any tangible efforts to make things better for poor people.

I do get that NIMBY types could be far-left on social issues, yeah. But they're kind of by definition not far-left on economic issues

emblem-man posted...

Or those who are against new home builds due to "gentrification", when building new homes is how to get home prices cheaper.

The problem is gentrification *does* price people out of neighborhoods. The issue that we have is we only build new homes in select areas, we don't build them fast enough, and we allow developers and landlords to hold real estate as an investment, so many of the new homes that are built in gentrified areas aren't accessible to the people already living in those areas, and then the goal of the landlords is eventually to drive them out so that the asset appreciates.

Allowing housing to be exposed to market forces at such a scale is detrimental since the chase for profit will always outweigh the public good in developers' minds, so I think the only real solution is massive public construction of real estate to the point where there is a glut of real estate on the market (and of course, these publicly-constructed housing units would only be for sale at sub-market prices and only individuals earning less than a certain amount of income would be eligible). This would devalue many homeowners' and landlords' assets, so they'd be pissed (which is why they lobby Congress to stop it), but it is what's necessary to solve the problem in the long-term.

Psyloshsr posted...

They don't do enough on border security and let the R's get away with claims they want open borders (some I'm sure do, but that's just a bad idea).

Under Biden, Democrats in Congress put forth a bill that would give the president the authority to "shut down the border" when border crossings are above a threshold they've been above since the pandemic.

You can't create a reality that Republicans and their allies in the media won't lie about. But you can cause real harms in the process of trying to prove how "tough on immigration" you are.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

I wasn't aware that these NIMBY policies were "far-left" - usually the NIMBY types I've met who are Democrats are your centrist Democrats who are all about racial equality but don't actually support any tangible efforts to make things better for poor people

Yeah, I'd make the correction that, not wanting housing, is non partisan.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

Allowing housing to be exposed to market forces at such a scale is detrimental since the chase for profit will always outweigh the public good in developers' minds, so I think the only real solution is massive public construction of real estate to the point where there is a glut of real estate on the market (and of course, these publicly-constructed housing units would only be for sale at sub-market prices and only individuals earning less than a certain amount of income would be eligible). This would devalue many homeowners' and landlords' assets, so they'd be pissed (which is why they lobby Congress to stop it), but it is what's necessary to solve the problem in the long-term.

I have no issue with public funding being used for mass building homes. We just have to make sure that we can reduce costs enough to where the public funding used for it is maximized.

Antifar posted...

Under Biden, Democrats in Congress put forth a bill that would give the president the authority to "shut down the border" when border crossings are above a threshold they've been above since the pandemic.

You can't create a reality that Republicans and their allies in the media won't lie about. But you can cause real harms in the process of trying to prove how "tough on immigration" you are.

Centrist Democrats have been as tough on the border as Republicans. This notion that Biden and Obama allowed for open borders and illegal immigrants to come in in massive numbers is just not true and not borne in any semblance of reality. That said, there are enough left-wing types who oppose any sort of border enforcement that they poison the well. The media seems to magnify the craziness of the extreme left-wing (i.e. the "Defund the Police" crowd) whereas they do everything in their power to make Trump seem more palatable. It's disgusting, really.

emblem-man posted...

I have no issue with public funding being used for mass building homes. We just have to make sure that we can reduce costs enough to where the public funding used for it is maximized.

That really is a problem. The cost per unit of a lot of these public infrastructure projects is usually through the roof because of various kickbacks and inefficiencies. I seem to recall that California attempts to do this on occasion and they end up costing like 1 million dollars per unit. That's just inexcusable.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

The media seems to magnify the craziness of the extreme left-wing (i.e. the "Defund the Police" crowd) whereas they do everything in their power to make Trump seem more palatable.

That's not a problem that can be solved through "better messaging" then. If the media is going to supplant the views of activists for the views and actions of party officials, it doesn't really matter what the party officials do and say.

Also, not for nothing, but 2020 when BLM protests took place and calls to defund the police were loudest is the best electoral result Democrats have had at the federal level since 2008. How sure are we that it was an electoral anchor?

I don't have a party, but for the purpose of this topic I'll just use the Greens platform since that's the party I would be voting for if America's electoral system wasn't a total sham.

https://www.gp.org/platform

They're against nuclear energy. I am not.
They're for the return of the Fairness Doctrine. I am not.

emblem-man posted...

He said far left NIMBY policies. He's talking about anti housing policies that stop developers from building homes, which in turn keep housing supply low and expensive.
For example, neighborhoods that fight tooth and back from rezoning or from allowing apartments to be built in their area.
The kind of person who will have signs saying "no hate in this neighborhood", and then will attend town meetings to stop a new apartment complex from being built.

Or those who are against new home builds due to "gentrification", when building new homes is how to get home prices cheaper.

Oh. Thanks for that information.

Antifar posted...

Under Biden, Democrats in Congress put forth a bill that would give the president the authority to "shut down the border" when border crossings are above a threshold they've been above since the pandemic.

You can't create a reality that Republicans and their allies in the media won't lie about. But you can cause real harms in the process of trying to prove how "tough on immigration" you are.

Yeah, in February 2024, after several years of record shattering numbers, and only when the polls were looking bad for Biden. A bill with numerous issues, and where going by CBP numbers, would not have triggered the restrictions between February and June. Hence the eventual EO in June with 2.5k (vs 5k), which was stronger, but far too late.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

Centrist Democrats have been as tough on the border as Republicans. This notion that Biden and Obama allowed for open borders and illegal immigrants to come in in massive numbers is just not true and not borne in any semblance of reality.

Biden's insane numbers and shit handling are indisputable. Obama handled it infinitely better than Biden. Biden is the one who immediately removed every restriction Trump had put. Gaslighting people about this clearly failed.