Board 8 > Board 8 Ranks Crime Films Part II: Disorganized Crime - The Rankings!

(+) Yeah! (+)

I almost went with Taxi Driver, I think that's the only other one it could be besides Bullet Train. But sticking with Bullet Train.

I'll guess Baby Driver, just to be different.

Also, just for the record, Jackie Brown was #17, right? I think you had it labeled as #16 in the reveal post (in addition to having the wrong director listed).

Seanchan posted...

Also, just for the record, Jackie Brown was #17, right? I think you had it labeled as #16 in the reveal post (in addition to having the wrong director listed).

That's correct, whoops

I watched Taxi Driver for the first time back in 2018. I barely remember anything about it. Carry on.

SimplePlan30 posted...

I watched Taxi Driver for the first time back in 2018. I barely remember anything about it. Carry on.

Are you talking to me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV7AfWxKxyQ

speaking of Taxi Driver, next ranking incoming!

16. Good Time (2017)
Directed by Josh & Benny Safdie
Score: 160

Seginus: 5
Johnbobb: 11
Seanchan: 13
Mythiot: 14
Suprak: 14
Karo: 15
Lightning: 18
jcgamer: 20
Poke: 23
Inviso: 27

Seginus
This movie slaps every which way, the music, cinematography (best version of the orange-and-teal look), pacing, tension, its just superior craftsmanship and vision. The twist that Connie breaks the wrong guy out of prison is so well done, I love that it leads you on for like twenty minutes about it. And the framing device of Nicks therapy session coming back at the end is brilliant, it would be an entertaining enough movie with just the main story but that ending hits so hard after spending a few hours with the other characters. Its a legit tearjerker.

Psychedelic coca-cola product placement, take a drink

Johnbobb
Why I included it:
I really considered including Uncut Gems on this list, the Safdie movie that shook the world with Sandler's incomparable New York gambler madness. But it's Good Time, a few years earlier, that put the Safdies on the map as directors AND Benny Safdie as an actor, while also kickstarting the return of Robert Pattinson as a legitimate actor beyond the typecast of Twilight that he had been stuck in for most of his career prior.

What I thought:
I think any Safdie movie I see is going to need at least two watches to really appreciate, because there is just so much happening all the goddamn time but it's just so good. Start to finish, the lighting, the music, the mouth-running headache of it all. Pattinson gives a career-defining performance... or it would be, if he didn't give another even MORE career-defining performance in The Lighthouse two years later. I mean you can see that this is a man looking to prove to the world what what exactly he can do and he achieves it 10 times over.

Favorite 1/2 star Letterboxd review:
*orders a Big Mac at McDonalds*
Music: BWOOOOOOWWWWWW

Seanchan
I enjoyed this one, in spite of the fact that the main character is an asshole. He loves his brother and yet hes the cause of the brothers misery. From there, we witness the downward spiral of bad decisions, and all the while youre not sure if you want to be rooting for the asshole but it remains pretty entertaining the whole time.

Since I forgot to write something up just after watching, Ill leave some of the notes I took while watching: Oh, Robert Pattinson! Lots of suspension of disbelief during the hospital sequence. Really, with a 16 year old Hahaha the wrong guy (I thought he sounded different)! Damn, thats quite a ride from Queens to Farmingdale. It really does suck to be a non-white person with cops around. How the fuck does someone working at Adventureland afford that nice apartment. SPLAT!

Karo
This bank robber thinks it is a good idea to bring his 'special' brother along with him on a holdup which of course goes well and thus he needs to come up with a brilliant plan to secure his sibling's freedom.
Or not, because the police just let him walk right in to the hospital and relieve a patient from their custody, who turns out to be a totally different random criminal because lol. They then try to go BACK to the hospital but end up getting sidetracked to an amusement park where they mug a security guard and then think it might be a good idea to spend the night at the apartment of the guy they just beat senseless. Uh, I think the mentally disabled brother like might actually be the smartest character in this movie.
It honestly almost seems a little like something the Coen Bros might do, just in case we didnt have enough of their movies in the project.

Lightning
Hes right where he belongs, and youre right where you belong.

Good Time feels like the kind of film that should have been totally forgotten. Its a low budget crime thriller by filmmakers both in front of and behind the camera on their way to much bigger things afterwards. Yet the film is so good I think its become a cult classic already. For my money this is still Robert Pattinsons best performance, and he has some good ones. Its also at least on a similar level to Uncut Gems for the Safdies, if not a bit better.

Like the Safdies other work, this is a film that is nothing but non-stop, constant anxiety throughout. It starts tense and ratchets it up with every scene. From the beginning you just know that everything Connie does is going to end badly and you have this almost second hand embarrassment watching it play out. In particular the character of Nick is so sympathetic and you hate watching him be put in this situation by his brother. All else being said it is that simple setup and dynamic that makes the film work.

The other key element is of course Robert Pattinsons excellent performance. He is fantastic here, and this is one of those roles that reminds you of what he can do when hes not being a sparkly vampire. It is so different to his other performances yet I have a hard time imagining anyone else doing what he does here. I really do feel like Robert Pattinson could be a generational talent. This is a film that entirely focuses around his central character and that performance really shines.

4/5

jcgamer
I waited for the good time.but it never came!! One of the few cases where I can recognize that a film is well-made and effective, but also made me so uncomfortable that I cant rate it too highly. The Safdie Brothers are skilled, no doubt, but it seems like their goal is to simply stress out the audience as much as possible for 90 minutes. When youre watching the main character and thinking you idiot every 3 minutesthats a little too often. Objectively a good movie, but challenging to watch, and not too much fun.

6/10

Inviso
Yeah, this was not my cup of tea. Its just such a trashy film about an unlikable protagonist doing horrific and unpleasant shit for the full duration of the runtime, and I can think of almost NOTHING I enjoyed about the film. Its not the WORST film on this list, because at the very least, it never hits the pure depths of the films Ive ranked lowerbut it feels like a very staunch dividing line to point out that anything I rank ABOVE Good Time was at least decent to watch and didnt make me feel gross for having watched it.

Here's the thing: Good Time is very much a crime movie; a LOT of crime happens over the course of the film. The problem is that the film itself feels like largely a character study into Robert Pattinsons Connie, and that name is a little on the nose, because holy fuck hes a massive con man. But the movie OPENS with him pulling his mentally challenged brother out of therapy in order to have said brother as muscle when going to rob a bank. And then after a dye pack goes off, the duo get chased by the cops and Connie leaves Nick behind, where he is brutalized by crashing through a glass window, and then getting beat up in prison because he doesnt understand the general etiquette and vibe going on there. Thats how the film STARTS: a mentally handicapped person being used and abused. Great fun. Good times.

From there, you get Connie trying to get this girl hes seeing to pay ten thousand dollars for Nicks bail (whichlikeConnies not nice or charming long-term, yet for some reason his charisma helps his schemes along more often than not). Then he attempts to break Nick out of the hospital when he learns that Nick got attacked in prisonbut he actually broke out a different scumbag entirely. He then tricks an eldery/handicapped bus service into giving him a ride so he can lay low in a random acquaintances housewhere he winds up making out with a sixteen-year-old girl to prevent her from seeing his mug shot on TV in connection with the robbery.

The grossness just keeps going as the hospital crook (Ray) wakes up and recounts why he ended up in the hospital, leading to Connie wanting to go find his drug buddies stash of drugs and money to pay Nicks bail. They break into an amusement park and Connie beats up the security guard before drugging him with acid, and he lets the aforementioned sixteen-year-old girl get arrested for being in the vicinity when the police come to investigate the park. And the whole story finishes with Connie and Ray hiding out in the security guards apartment (having stolen his keys and wallet), getting into a fight when Connie tries to coerce payment for the acid, and Connie gets arrested just as he leaves the apartment, while Ray falls from at least ten stories up while trying to escape. The whole movie is just one night of Connie being a disgusting person, ruining multiple lives, and then he just gets arrested almost out of nowhere, since the cops show up SUPER randomly. At least Nick winds up okay in the end, since hes not being exploited anymore. But stillyikes.

Leaderboard:
Inviso: 105
Seginus: 100
Mythiot: 99
Seanchan: 97
Poke: 96
Karo: 93
Johnbobb: 90
Lightning: 86
Suprak: 84
jcgamer: 61

We've got our first two to break into triple digits, with Inviso retaking his lead after finally dropping the first of the four he hated. Seginus makes a huge play from 6th all the way to 2nd at a perfect 100, while Mythiot, Sean, and Poke all trail very closely behind. Meanwhile, jcgamer still keeps a 23 point gap between himself and second-to-last place.

Hint for #15: We're finally entering the top half! And we're going to kick it off by dropping not one but TWO first place rankings. Yep, this list is so controversial that two first places only gets you 15th.

Favorite 1/2 star Letterboxd review:
*orders a Big Mac at McDonalds*
Music: BWOOOOOOWWWWWW

I am so so happy you are still doing these.

And man two first place votes and only 15?!? Could it be Oldboy maybe?

Good Time was another one I watched early on that I was never really sure I had properly ranked in the end. I knew it was a good film but like some others said, it was hard to know if it was really enjoyable.

Im going to guess A Clockwork Orange next. That seems like the type of controversial movie to have a couple of 1s and a couple of 28-30s.

Still one left I really hope drops before too long but I doubt will be next. REALLY hope its not my #1 next but wouldnt shock me. Will guess Oldboy as I can see it being divisive.

Im gonna guess Clockwork, because its a Kubrick film, so definitely could have multiple number 1s, and I at least think Im alone in ranking my 1 at 1.

Both Good Time and Uncut Gems improved significantly for me the 2nd watch. Like Uncut Gems I think was like a 3/5 first watch and 5/5 second. They're just a LOT thr first time through when you don't know what to expect

Johnbobb posted...

Hint for #16: Some of these movies titles are vague or a little obscure. With this one, what you see is what you get.

Lol so......it was actually the opposite of what you said

jcgamer107 posted...

Lol so......it was actually the opposite of what you said

I mean I had a good time

15. Lon: The Professional
Directed by Luc Besson
Score: 156

Karo: 1
Poke: 1
jcgamer: 6
Johnbobb: 14
Inviso: 14
Suprak: 20
Lightning: 24
Seanchan: 24
Seginus: 24
Mythiot: 28

Karo
A stoic hitman takes in a wayward waif who the police are trying to kill and begins training her to be an assassins apprentice.
The characters are some of the best you'll ever see in a movie, there's Leon, the murderer who discovers that he is not entirely heartless despite his best efforts to emotionally close himself off from the world.
But the real star here is Mathilda, buoyed by Natalie Portman's haunting debut performance that should have earned her an Oscar nomination but the academy is stupid.
Mathilda avoids so so many of the annoying pitfalls of young characters in cinema, she is not just a decorative set piece to stand around and act cute, she has real feelings and goals, and they are examined with the respect they deserve.
And then there of course is Stansfield. Uhh, yeah. I mean he is entertaining, but a policeman has gotta at least pay lip service to wearing the mask and pretending he isn't a murderous psychopath. How is this guy still employed?
Leon is not only my favorite movie on this list, it is also one of my favorite movies of all time and there was never any doubt that this was going to take the top spot.

jcgamer
Goddam does Gary Oldman play a great villain. His performance alone moves this up like 10 spots. Leon is of course a badass as well. I recommend that everyone watch this movie.

EVVVERRYYYYONNNEEEE!!!!

9/10

Johnbobb
Why I included it:
Luc Besson was already getting to be a big deal in France before this movie, but Leon introduced him to American audiences and led to the creation of sci-fi favorite The Fifth Element a few years later. There can't be a crime film list without assassins, and Leon largely set the standard for the "hired killer with a moral code" trope in film. It's also the very first film appearance of Natalie Portman, which served as a real breakout role for her given her dominant performance, and also delivered one of Gary Oldman's most over-the-top villains.

What I thought:
Ranking Leon is tough. I absolutely adore 96% of this movie. The other 4%? Fuckin' yikes. I think a large part of what makes Leon as good as it is was Jean Reno taming Luc Besson's ideas and making the character his own. Besson is a great director, but he's also a fuckin creep, and Reno takes what were, on paper, very uncomfortable scenes, and mostly makes them palateable and at times even a little wholesome. That only goes so far though, and it eventually becomes difficult to defend some of the creative decisions regarding Portman's character. Even still, I can't really knock it down much further than this, because the main three cast are just incredible, the action is exciting and dramatic, the story is compelling - it's almost everything I want out of a crime thriller.

Favorite 1/2 star Letterboxd review:
This movie felt like a frat dude holding a gun to your head forcing you to watch their favorite YouTuber who desperately tries to hit the ten minute mark so they can absolutely demolish their video with mid roll ads and then also defend pedophilia to you by bringing up mens natural biological instinct to be attracted to younger women for reproduction purpose

(note: almost every low rating of this film is just calling Luc Besson a pedophile, which, fair)

Inviso
I liked this movie a lot, and the main reason I dont rank it higher is because at a certain point, the relationship between Mathilda and Lon is just a LITTLE creepy. I get that Lon wants absolutely no part of what Mathilda does, but its still just a TINY bit too uncomfortable of a plot point in a film that I otherwise quite enjoyed. Its an interesting concept: guy is a hitmana really GOOD hitman, and he happens to live in the apartment next to a scumbag drug dealer, who gets his whole family killed by corrupt cops that think he stole drugs from them. And Lon doesnt want to get involved; he just wants to stay in his apartment and tend to his plant. But the family has one survivor: a young girl who has no one else to turn toso for a brief window of time, Lon begins showing her the ropes to become a hitman herself.

Its all very touching (again, outside of Mathilda making it weird), and its fun to see a misanthrope like Lon trying to be a good parental figure in the wake of Mathildas familys brutal demise. But Ive also gotta give credit to Gary Oldman chewing the scenery as he did in a LOT of 90s movies, and just being a hilarious crackhead of a character. His ultimate fate felt as goofy as he was, and it also felt like a satisfying conclusion to Lons story (after he goes out like a fucking boss, killing a bunch of crooked cops and then walking out in their own uniform as a disguise). Really, I think this is one film that couldve done with an additional half hour of scenes just allowing that bond to grow between Lon and Mathilda. Just not the weird romantic angle.

Lightning
EVERYONE!

So this is a film with a complicated external history so Im going to review the film on its own merits as a work first then spend a little time talking about that. This film on its own is great. The action scenes are incredibly well done and the performances, in particular Natalie Portman and Gary Oldman are spot on. Luc Bessons frantic and stylised direction fits the set pieces perfectly. There is plenty of comedy that works, but its the emotion of the central relationship that really shines through.

We also have one of the most memorable villain performances of all time. While Oldman definitely takes it all the way over the top it works for a film this eccentric. There are flaws, in particular Portmans character having a crush on Lon is something the film would have been much better off without, but more on that later. However overall this is a really well made, stylish action film with a solid emotional core.

Now, to the troubling parts. Originally in the script there was going to be a sex scene with Portmans character and Lon - thank god they took that out. More troubling is that this was based on an actual relationship between Besson and his second wife who he met when she was 12 (he was 29), began dating at 15, and married and had a child with at 16. Needless to say, thats pretty horrible. Ive still given the film a positive review because I didnt know that when I watched it and it doesnt come through in the final cut in my view. But still, this is highly distressing and worth being aware of.

4/5

Seanchan
Yeah this was okay. Goes to check IMDBwait, this is a TOP 50 movie?!? Color me gobsmacked by that high rating because I just wasnt seeing it. Is this one of those films that was groundbreaking at the time and now just has a reputation? Yes, Oldman is unhinged and memorable (and had me wondering how much this performance affected Dafoe in The Boondock Saints). Yes, Portman is good, if a little bit weirdly sexualized at points. But I dont know, maybe Ive just seen all the themes and elements of this too many times already at this point, and this one just didnt land with me.
Couple of random thoughts: EVERYONE! (But seriously that was a shit load of cops!) Wasnt expecting the pig potholder

Seginus
I liked this as a kid, now I find it ridiculously melodramatic and cheesy. I used to think Gary Oldman was really good in this, now I just see one-note shouty acting. I get it, he likes Beethoven because he just did Immortal Beloved, okay. I took notes when I went through these movies and my only notes for this one were as follows:

Weve got company ahh dialogue
Death is whimsical today ahh dialogue

I do still think Jean Reno and Natalie Portman make a likeable pair as the badass protector/youth in jeopardy. However much the movie works for me is entirely due to the tragic relationship between these two characters. Although even that occasionally verges into cheese (ugh, charades).

Basically everyone in this movie dies because one batch of cocaine was 90% instead of 100% pure, thats how crazy cokeheads are.

Leaderboard:
Seginus: 122
Poke: 110
Karo: 107
Inviso: 106
Seanchan: 106
Mythiot: 99
Lightning: 95
Johnbobb: 91
Suprak: 89
jcgamer: 70

Big hits from Karo, Poke and Mythiot here and moderately big hits from jcgamer, Sean, Lightning and Seginus as well! Almost nobody gets away unscatched, but Vis topples from first down to a tied 4th place.

Hint for #14: A significant portion of this movie is spent inside of a car or otherwise dealing with cars.

Very glad to see Bullet Train still on here. It's probably my favorite movie released in the last five years or so.

Note that I said "favorite," not "best." I recognize its flaws, I just think it's insanely enjoyable from start to finish.

Good time is a fucking elite movie

Knew I should have said Lon but didnt think it would have two number ones. Flawed movie though I do still like it.

Going with the trick option of Bullet Train next. Train cars hah. Though it could just be Baby Driver.

Laaame. Leon is top tier stuff.

14. Bullet Train (2022)
Directed by David Leitch
Score: 153

Inviso: 1
Karo: 2
Poke: 4
Johnbobb: 10
Seginus: 11
jcgamer: 13
Suprak: 26
Seanchan: 28
Lightning: 29
Mythiot: 29

Inviso
Its weird to have the last movie on the list wind up at the top for my personal ranking, but what can I say? Many of you have participated in these lists with me for years now, and it should come as no surprise that Bullet Train is exactly the sort of movie that would resonate well with me. Hell, there are several other films on this list that have very similar positives that Ive described in their write-ups. Give me a large cast of characters with unique personalities and put them in a chaotic situation where theyre regularly bouncing off one another and creating new scenarios to explore their characters. Plus in this case, Brad Pitt, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, and Brian Tyree Henry just fucking steal the show with their comedic performances largely played completely straight throughout the movie.

But also, I love the use of visuals and audio in this movie, with some bangers on the soundtrack, and the largely color-coded train cars almost coming across as additional characters themselves. And this is a film that makes good use of flashbacks and foreshadowing to really create a cinematic experience. I love the fact that, while the movie occasionally pulls out a big revealthere are so many instances where the film establishes something early on, and the movie goes on long enough that the audience isnt thinking about it. Lemon getting shot multiple times by Prince makes you think hes deaduntil you remember Tangerine riding him about wearing a bulletproof vest earlier in the movie. White Death deliberately going the harder route against Elder, because its stated he kills would-be assassins with their own weapon, hence grabbing the cane and trying to pull his throat into his own sword. Its those little touches, combined with the fun, witty dialogue and generally light-hearted atmosphere that sell this as a great film to watch, and one where the two-hour runtime just FLIES by. It was a great watch for me, and enough to top my list.

Karo
An assassin who brings with him incredibly bad luck (to everyone around him) boards a high speed train in Tokyo with a lot of colorful characters, most of whom are also assassins and as you might expect a lot of killings and misunderstandings ensue.
There's a certain air of silliness to the movie, but in a good way. It's like it doesn't take itself too seriously and you shouldn't either. There are in depth discussions about Thomas the tank engine, snakes on a train, a hilarious fight in the 'quiet car' with this old lady continuously shushing them as they beat each other senseless, and a lot of gaijin tourists acting very horribly.
But it is not just randomness, there is an interconnected story behind all the weird coincidences, and the way everything is woven together so meticulously is utterly delightful.
It is certainly something that is way better than it has any right to be and I really liked it.

Johnbobb
Why I included it:
Honestly? Personal bias. I fuck with Bullet Train. All my friends fuck with Bullet Train. But only 53% of critics fuck with Bullet Train, because 47% of critics don't understand what fun is. HUGE all-star cast with distinctly memorable characters, uniquely taking place in a single location for just about the full runtime. Take a bunch of assassins from all over the world, throw them on a train together, see what chaos ensues.

What I thought:
I love it. This is like the 5th time I've watched it in 2 years and it just doesn't get old. I went in with absolutely no expectations when I saw it in theaters and was smiling from start to finish. It cracks me up, the color and lighting design is great, the soundtrack is great, the major and minor characters are all entertaining. The recurring themes of luck and fate may be a little over the top, but I don't think that's a bad thing; it stays consistent in its themes and has like 25 different setups that all manage to pay off in one way or another. Chekhov would have a hernia. Just an absolute blast.

Favorite 1/2 star Letterboxd review:
Its like a trantino dupe korean drama mixed with super agents

Seginus
Hey, some old school fun that doesnt take itself too seriously. Cool setting, great characters. Brad Pitt is excellent in bumbling comedic roles like this (here in a very Jackie Chan-esque dont want any trouble situation). Theres so much buildup for villain, when it did the classic feet-up reveal shot to Michael Shannon in a huge wig, I lost it. His Russian accent being terrible just adds to it. Great stuff. Im also a sucker for over-the-top cameos in a comedy and this delivered.

This one might have the best straight-up action on the list. Its got martial arts, swordfighting, a big cgi trainwreck (which I thought looked rather impressive). This movie kinda kicks ass, Im greenlighting Bullet Train 2 right away.

Fiji water product placement, take a drink

jcgamer
This movie was a ton of fun; better than I expected. It actually crossed the line into too ridiculous at times, but the action and comedy are so strong you usually dont mind. Brad Pitt is great in a role I wouldnt have expected him to play, and all the side characters have charm. A solid popcorn movie if you wanna just see witty banter and crazy fight sequences.

7/10

Seanchan
What do you get when you mix Guy Ritchie with Quentin Tarantino? You get a movie that feels like its trying to ape Ritchie and Tarantino but not as good! Bullet Train is a quintessential style over substance movie. Youve got lots of big name actors doing cool things in a cool environment but it all just feels a little flat.
Theres also large swathes of the movie that just dont make any sense and break the immersion. Why is there no one else noticing all the chaos happening? I know theres a pithy in-film explanation but it doesnt feel earned. Its a quiet car until its not. You can break a window with some brass knuckles on your fist while holding onto the slick surface of a train going 200 km/hr. And so on. A better movie would have me overlook those things.
This is merely a passable, turn off your brain, popcorn movie.

Lightning
Youre a Diesel!

This is a film that very much pitches itself as a fun action romp with a starry cast playing some crazy characters. To top it all off it has a fantastic setting, Japan is an amazing setting for most films but especially a crime caper like this and trains are such a dynamic setting for stories as they are at once confined and constantly moving. Unfortunately, for me this film didnt really work in what it set out to do.

Honestly, its just not fun enough. There are some good sequences but it kind of lacks the energy of some of the best fun action films. Similarly the actual action choreography is not the best either. None of the performances really shine with one exception, and its not Brad Pitts lead. Aaron Taylor Johnson steals this film in a career defining performance that blows everybody else out of the water. It is because of this film that I can see him as Bond. He does genuinely stellar work and helps elevate some thin characters.

Despite not loving it, the film still manages to be bouncy enough to keep me going until the last act. Then the proverbial and literal train comes off the tracks. The last act of this movie just does not work, and it is marred even more by bad CGI that makes the whole climax look terrible. It is a shame because I love the concept and didnt hate the film. But for me this film doesnt quite get it right.

2/5

Leaderboard:
Seginus: 125
Poke: 120
Seanchan: 120
Karo: 119
Inviso: 119
Mythiot: 114
Lightning: 110
Suprak: 101
Johnbobb: 95
jcgamer: 71

For a movie as divisive as this one, it didnt result in many changes to the ranking? Vis stays tied for 4th, only now with Karo instead of Sean. Suprak, Lightning and Mythiot all break into triple digits, while jcgamers continuous small scores are making his chances of landing outside the bottom spot increasingly miniscule.

No update tomorrow or Friday as Ill be away. Happy Thanksgiving!

Hint for #13: As my holiday present to you all, well finally kill off one of the final remaining last place rankings.

Well that's the most depressing back to back drops ever.

"One of" the final last place rankings you say?

I'd like to hope it's my lowest remaining film (that I have at #26) but that doesn't feel right. Again, I'll say A Clockwork Orange, with Oldboy as a backup. Both of those seem divisive enough that someone might hate them. (And didn't someone kind of just say that in the other topic?)

For fun, since we've got a break, here's my rankings so far:

1. ?????
2. Jackie Brown (17)
3. ?????
4. ?????
5. ?????
6. ?????
7. ?????
8. ?????
9. ?????
10. Serpico (22)
11. The Town (28)
12. Heat (18)
13. Good Time (16)
14. ?????
15. ?????
16. M (20)
17. ?????
18. You Were Never Really Here (29)
19. The French Connection (26)
20. Blood Simple (19)
21. ?????
22. The Man Who Wasn't There (25)
23. Burn After Reading (27)
24. Lon: The Professional (15)
25. Bad Times at the El Royale (24)
26. ?????
27. Raising Arizona (21)
28. Bullet Train (14)
29. The Boondock Saints (30)
30. Bonnie and Clyde (23)

Happy early Turkey Day!

30) The Boondock Saints
29) You Were Never Really Here
28) Burn After Reading
27) The Town
26) Bullet Train
25) The Man Who Wasn't There
24) ???
23) ???
22) Jackie Brown
21) ???
20) Lon: The Professional
19) Bad Times at the El Royale
18) M
17) ???
16) ???
15) Heat
14) Good Time
13) Serpico
12) ???
11) Raising Arizona
10) ???
9) Blood Simple
8) Bonnie and Clyde
7) ???
6) The French Connection
5) ???
4) ???
3) ???
2) ???
1) ???

Entire top five still intact is pretty shocking for me.

Interesting to see Bullet Train so divisive, guess we actually basically reflected the critics with being split down the middle on it. And I do want to be clear, despite the score I found it middling not bad. However, for me the big problem with Bullet Train is not that its trying to be a fun movie. I love fun! Oh that Lightning, they like fun so much people always say! Its just for me this wasnt fun enough. I do wonder if I would have liked it more if I had watched it at home instead of at the cinema though as the big screen probably made it more apparent how horrible the CG at the end was. Oh well. Its all subjective and glad for the people who really like this, just explaining my perspective.

Anyway:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. Heat
8.
9.
10.
11.
12. The Man Who Wasnt There
13.
14.
15. The Town
16. Serpico
17. M
18. Good Time
19. Bonnie and Clyde
20.
21. Raising Arizona
22. Jackie Brown
23. You Were Never Really Here
24. Lon
25. The French Connection
26. Blood Simple
27. Bad Times at the El Royale
28. Burn After Reading
29. Bullet Train
30. The Boondock Saints

Glad my top half is largely intact! Thinking its Shoplifters next as I can see the films pace being offputting to some. Have a lovely break.

I liked Bullet Train fine but I think that kind of movie has a tendency to be dismissed as unoriginal by critics for whatever reason. Also it should not be above The French Connection and ESPECIALLY Heat.

Like, I understand why people here are not down with Heat but I knew full well going in that it would be a drama more than a thriller. Dang it!

LightningStrikes posted...

Interesting to see Bullet Train so divisive, guess we actually basically reflected the critics with being split down the middle on it. And I do want to be clear, despite the score I found it middling not bad. However, for me the big problem with Bullet Train is not that its trying to be a fun movie. I love fun! Oh that Lightning, they like fun so much people always say! Its just for me this wasnt fun enough. I do wonder if I would have liked it more if I had watched it at home instead of at the cinema though as the big screen probably made it more apparent how horrible the CG at the end was. Oh well. Its all subjective and glad for the people who really like this, just explaining my perspective.

I didnt hate any movie on this list. Bonnie and Clyde was just boring. The Boondock Saints was the only real bad movie on the list but even then it wasnt unwatchable.

Bullet Train had a lot of good going for it. I just wished the suspension of disbelief wasnt so stupid. This apparently didnt bother a lot of people. For me, it might have been the only movie on the list to truly break the spell.

Hmmmmm.........guess Big Lebowski next

13. A Clockwork Orange (1971)
Directed by Stanley Kubrick
Score: 141

Mythiot: 2
Lightning: 4
Poke: 5
Johnbobb: 8
jcgamer: 9
Seanchan: 17
Karo: 20
Seginus: 22
Suprak: 24
Inviso: 30

Lightning
I was cured, all right!

This to me is one of those movies that I think just about everybody has picked up the thrust of the plot of via cultural osmosis. I have to admit, Id never actually seen it before this project, despite being a massive film nerd and having watched a huge number of movies in my time. It just felt like I knew everything there was to know about the film already because it was so iconic.

Little did I know this film still had mountains of surprises to offer. Even knowing the story, the way the film uses its aesthetics to tell the story of this world is remarkable. From the clothes and hair to the use of slang it builds a setting that feels futuristic yet also extremely close to reality. Kubrick shoots everything perfectly, and the soundtrack effectively uses classical music to bring contrast to the chaos. The musical choices here seem to be pointing out that Alex sees himself as a cultured individual but is at the same time both a thug and a child. Nothing sells this aspect better than Malcolm McDowells performance, which takes him from pure menace to totally pathetic and back again.

It must be said, this is a brutal and gruelling film. The violence and cruelty is still pretty heavy even by modern standards, and I wouldnt call watching it a pleasant experience. Sure enough, the film despite being really successful caused a moral panic over supposed copycat crimes leading to Kubrick receiving threats and a visit from the police, which ultimately led to him asking for the film to be pulled from UK cinemas. This is sometimes misinterpreted as the film being banned which it wasnt, but it did not get another release until 2000 nearly 30 years later. Its still a very challenging film but also one of purely excellent craft.

5/5

Johnbobb
Why I included it:
For one, it's Stanley Kubrick. For two, it was universally acclaimed, getting four Oscar nominations (one of the only X-rated films to ever be nominated Best Picture) and being named by the American Film Institute as one of the best films and best film villains of all time. For three, and likely most importantly, it was a hugely controversial cult favorite due to its unprecedented (for the time) amounts of violence, going as far as to get it banned from several countries.

What I thought:
Kubrick has always been hit or miss for me, but A Clockwork Orange was the biggest hit by a mile. I expect this will be one of the most controversial films on the list, but I've always really enjoyed it. It's disturbing, but in a way that never ceases to be uninteresting. Malcolm McDowell gives the performance of his life here and the sheer amount of creativity in its framing, set design, costume design, dialogue, and music integration is on a different level. I'd quote this film in my daily life more if half the words weren't just completely made up. I do still occasionally call vinyl records fuzzy warbles though.

Favorite 1/2 star Letterboxd review:
I understand that different people like different things and not every popular movie will be to my taste however if this particular one is to your taste please do not come within 50 feet of me (vis, is that you?)

jcgamer
I used to find Kubrick films kind of boring, but as Ive gotten older Ive come around to appreciating him for the visual genius that he is. 2001, The Shining, and Full Metal Jacket are all incredible pieces of work. I had tried watching this movie a couple years ago, but bailed early as they hit you hard with the sexual violence right out of the gate. I still dont really care for that stuff, but now seeing the film in total, I can better appreciate the story and performances. Malcolm McDowell should have at least been nominated for an Oscar, and many of the actors in minor roles do a stellar job - Philip Stone is great as Alexs timid, apologetic father, and Mr. Deltoid is one of the most ridiculous side characters of all-time, what an accent.

I found the dialogue and Alexs way of speaking pretty delightful, and was really intrigued by the 2nd half of the film, with the states attempt to cure Alex, and the aftermath as hes let loose to deal with the consequences of the mess he left.

9/10

Seanchan
When I was in college, I had some roommates that loved to watch the opening boot camp part of Full Metal Jacket. And then theyd shut the movie off because the rest wasnt as entertaining. Why do I mention this? Well, I think you know where Im headed. The first third of this encompasses what most people are going to remember about A Clockwork Orange, as the crew goes on their merry little spree. Then youve got the second third in jail/treatment, which people might remember the scenes of being forced to watch the films. And then theres the last third that Id definitely forgotten about despite having seen this before. While that final third might be important from a storyline perspective, its also the least memorable.
Aside from that, this has got to be one of the most bizarre movies on this list. The imagery, the dialogue, the dichotomy of the music to the action, this one is just designed to make you feel odd and slightly disturbed. Ultimately, Im not sure I truly understood it.
Couple of random thoughts: That was a weird fight scene at the beginning. Look at that fucking car! Drinking denture waterugh! The porcelain penis statue. Oh god, that eye contraption, that must have been hell to film as the actor. Of course they became cops!

Karo
A bunch of weirdos in tophats frolic about doing a spot of the old ultra-violence in a night upon the town. These thugs talk in an annoying made up language combined with strong british accents which means I can understand roughly 40% of the noises escaping their mouth holes. It's like the Minions grew up and became violent delinquents, somehow getting even more annoying in the process.
I don't really get what this movie is trying to say, sometimes it almost seems like there might be some moral about the prison industrial complex or mental health, but that soon disappears into the aether and I think the movie just wants to be weird and that's all there is to it.

Seginus
Downgrading on rewatch. I like this the first time but it doesnt seem to reward repeated viewings, unlike other Kubrick films. I found myself irritated by the voice-over, stilted dialogue, nauseating visual style (intentional as it may be). The hyperviolence comes off as a shock value gimmick more than it does any sort of meaningful social commentary. I think my biggest problem is that it presents such a funhouse mirror version of reality that I cant take it seriously when it wants me to consider the philosophical qualms of criminal rehabilitation in the second half. I mean, I wouldnt care if they gave DeLarge the death penalty in this world, because I see him as cartoonishly evil. He might as well go to Superjail. So the back half of the story just doesnt land for me in that basic regard.

It is a very colorful and interesting looking movie, with a lot of memorable shots and sequences. Synthesizers compliment Beethoven to complete a garish aesthetic, which is effectively off-putting. There is a thick meta layer to the use of film as a conditioning tool here.

But maybe in that sense it works too well? I feel like it has plenty of themes and concepts I could write ten page essays about but its simply not an enjoyable enough movie to warrant thinking about that much. As far as disorganized crime goes, I think The Killing would have been a more suitable Kubrick pick.

Inviso
Heres the thing: unlike 2001 or The Shining, which I thought were boring and instances of Kubrick thinking far too highly of himself as an auteur, I think A Clockwork Orange WORKS as both a film and a piece of artistic media. The plot introduces a main character whos a violent hoodlum, he gets caught and punished, and said punishment becomes torturous to the point where the very society whose norms he subverted then turns around to apologizes to HIM. It all makes sense. And it makes sense in an extremely unpleasant manner, which is why I rank this film as I do. Just about every moment of this movie (not necessarily VISUALLY, though there were a few scenes of grime and squalor) feels gross. The characters are all meanspirited and nasty, the actions undertaken by the characters are meanspirited and nasty (and in such a flippant manner at that), and the ultimate conclusion to the whole plot is this nasty, meanspirited sociopath getting used as a political prop by both sides of the government, which makes society feel pretty shitty too. I do GET that this is all meant to convey a message, but its just not a message that I enjoyed watching, thats all.

But just to keep from being fully negative, Ill give credit for the use of classical music in the film. A lot of scenes felt almost like ballet dances with their choreography, even if the subject matter was heinous. It really tied into Alexs fascination with Beethoven as a composer, and it elevate the film a little bit as something worthy of being considered art.

Leaderboard:
Inviso: 136
Seginus: 134
Poke: 128
Karo: 126
Mythiot: 125
Seanchan: 124
Lightning: 119
Suprak: 112
Johnbobb: 100
jcgamer: 75

A huge swing from Inviso bumps him right back up to 1st agian, though the race between the top 6 stays very close. I finally hit 3 digits, leaving jcgamer the last to stay at two.

Hint for #13: If you've been keeping track, you'll know there's exactly one 30th place left that hasn't dropped yet. Today, it finally does!

It's gotta be Shoplifters next

nobody saw that

Seginustemple posted...

It's gotta be Shoplifters next

Not sure I see Shoplifters being that divisive. I'm going with Oldboy because I could definitely see someone hating that movie.

That was a rewatch for me. I remember really liking it like 15 years ago but this time I just liked it. Ive read the book in between so I dunno if that was affecting things or not.

Ill also guess Oldboy next (sadly).

There was a time that Clockwork was in my top 5 of all time and here it barely made my top 10 of this list, so it's definitely dropped for me over time too, though it's still think it's a top tier film

12. Dial M for Murder (1954)
Directed by Alfred Hitchcock
Score: 140

Inviso: 7
Seanchan: 7
Poke: 9
Lightning: 9
Suprak: 10
Mythiot: 15
Seginus: 15
Karo: 17
jcgamer: 21
Johnbobb: 30

Inviso
Im fairly certain this is the first Alfred Hitchcock movie Ive seen, because I cannot remember actually watching Psycho from beginning to end. And for that first time dipping my toe into the work of one of the most famous directors of all time, I enjoyed this. Im down for a good Monk-style murder mystery, where its all about figuring out how the bad guy did it (even though he get to see Tony lay out his entire plan, without taking into account the handful of elements of human nature that might ruin everything). And it all just plays out so wonderfully, because you can have the cleverest plan in the world, and you can read the human nature of a guy youre blackmailing on a whim, but everything changes when your wife behaves in a manner that doesnt facilitate her own murder. Watching the back half though, when shes been framed for murder and everyone is trying to figure a way out for her (including the inspector being a smart motherfucker) is great. Tony is SO smug, right up until the last possible second, and his own inability to account for human error bites him in the ass one last time and gets him caught. Its all very clever and fun the whole way through.

Seanchan
I thought I had seen this one before but that turned out not to be true. Anyway, I enjoyed it quite a bit. It's a very tense and taut film, where youre always wondering how things are going to go wrong (or right). Perhaps a bit overly explanatory at times, but its also the nature of movies like this.
I especially enjoyed the acting of the husband. One tiny detail that stuck out to me was when he was having the conversation with the guy from college. He wipes down the lamp, the glasses, the picture, etc. The conversation continues and the college guy ends up gripping the desk chair as theyre looking at the bank records. I thought for sure that would be a gotcha, either as part of the plot (that he forgot) or as a plot hole, but moments later he takes a rag and wipes the chair down. The fact that they paid attention to little details like that is telling.

Lightning
I usually put myself in the criminals shoes and then I keep asking myself, uh, what do I do next?

Alfred Hitchcock shows that hes the absolute master of suspense in this murder thriller with a fantastic setup and structure. The setup is simple but extremely well done; a jealous husband wants to have his wife killed and it goes wrong. The twists and turns this takes are exciting to watch, and this ties into the films brilliant structure. The first portion of the film establishes the characters and sets up the murder attempt, then there is the only real sequence of action in the middle with the home invasion scene leading into the wife being framed. This then goes into a sequence thats a mirror of the first one where the detective and the boyfriend try to reveal the truth and set her free. There is a kind of clever symmetry to the film with that exciting sequence in the middle dividing two clear acts.

Its really impressive that aside from the one big set-piece, the film is almost entirely people standing in the same room talking (usually just two of them) but its gripping throughout. The performances are all great (though Kellys accent isnt the best) and it manages to sell the dialogue and keep you hooked even when you might think it would be slow. This all leads to a very clever finale where they manage to expose the husband in a pretty smart way using what had been set up previously with the keys. In that plan you can see a lot of modern detective stories get their inspiration. My only issue with the film is probably the score. It doesnt quite fit the serious nature of whats happening, it is almost too buoyant. However this is only a small critique of a brilliant film. Overall this is a great crime thriller that holds up brilliantly today.

5/5

Seginus
Classic Hitchcock thriller about a guy who blackmails a patsy to kill his wife for him, and is cocky enough to think his scheme will go off without a hitch. Ray Milland plays this role with delicious hubris and its a joy to watch his carefully laid plans unravel all because he fails to anticipate his wifes lethal judo instinct, which forces him to think on his feet for the second half of the movie. This precipitates a Columboesque downfall at the hands of a diligent chief inspector, who puzzles over an increasingly complex set of clues until they all line up. Could the letter have been planted on the body? But then why was the money still in the briefcase? Then theres the matter of the missing stocking - and how did Swanns latchkey end up in Margots handbag? What about the mysterious behavior of the barbecue lid? Is it possible the sewing machine was taken over by the spirit of Byrons grandmother? It would be a nightmare to get jury duty on a case like this, Id be so confused the whole time.

But I dig this type of locked-room mystery, where the mechanics and details of a confined space are so intricately plotted and thoroughly considered that the limited setting enjoys a heightened veracity. The story here is clever enough to make the filmed play aspect work for me, and I get a kick out of the old-school English thespian acting.

Karo
This Hitchcock classic is an old fashioned murder mystery story only from the unusual point of view of the criminal as he plans his perfect crime.
This setup means the audience knows things the detective doesn't, and rather than trying to figure things out for ourselves we are merely passive observers to his attempts to crack the case. Indeed, for this time around it is the motives and methods of the police that are hidden from out view, and the big reveal at the end in not whodunit, but rather howdunit, as in how did the cops manage to break through his airtight alibi? (hint: it involves entrapment and tampering with evidence but hey, that's the police for you)
I mean I guess it is pretty good for an old movie but it's not even close to Hitchcock's best efforts.

jcgamer
This was right before Hitchcock really peaked - in fact he released a much better movie, Rear Window, later that same year. Dial M is OK but isnt one of the Hitchcock pictures that really sticks with you afterwards, like Psycho for example.

6/10

Johnbobb
Why I included it:
I may not be the biggest fan of Hitchcock as a director, but I can admit that it would feel weird having a crime list without at least one of his here. In fact, there'd likely be more included in the list, but I do intend to run a Mystery movie list someday, which will likely have quite a few of his. Dial M for Murder's legacy is undeniable as one of the key early murder conspiracy movies, it's been adapted and remade and is often considered one of Hitchcock's best.

What I thought:
Again, not the biggest Hitchcock fan in general - for someone specifically known for thrillers, his "thrilling" scenes never really click with me, with overblown performances and convenient plot points. That being said, Dial M is better than most of what I've seen from him. Hubbard may never be Poirot, but he still manages to have a decent bit of needed charisma. Overall I enjoyed it, even if it didn't quite blow me away.

Favorite 1/2 star Letterboxd review:
you lost me at the key thing bro

Leaderboard
Inviso: 141
Seginus: 137
Poke: 131
Karo: 131
Mythiot: 128
Seanchan: 129
Lightning: 122
Johnbobb: 118
Suprak: 114
jcgamer: 84

Finally a decent hit for jcgamer. Did that make a difference? Well, no, because 2nd to last place had a much bigger hit. Not much movement here at all, given that 8 out of 10 rankers had this one placed with 5 of its actual ranking position.

Hint for #11: There are only around 5 movies left on this list that I would call "thrillers." This is one of them.

Never would have guessed that one.

It may be Nightcrawler?

I'm thinking Dog Day

If that happens, I will stab

(Mods, this is what is called a joke)

Dial M For Murder at 30?!?!

I would not have guessed that would've been anyone's number thirty. Even with the list as stacked as it was.

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

Dial M For Murder at 30?!?!

I would not have guessed that would've been anyone's number thirty. Even with the list as stacked as it was.

in fairness I love 90% of the list, so my bottom few were the ones I thought were just ok