Current Events > The topic of tariffs

(+) Yeah! (+)

I feel like a lot of people misunderstand what these actually are. I am going to try and explain it to make it as simple as possible to understand.

So when a country decides to place a tariff on another country, this means that all goods getting imported from there will go up a certain percent.

So for example, say there is an expensive shirt you want. For the sake of argument, the US and China both make this shirt. They both make it from the same type of materials, both are the exact same quality.

But normally, the US sells it for $100, while the Chinese sells theirs for $80. Most people are more likely to purchase the Chinese product to save some money, right?

So enter the tariffs, which slaps China with a 50% increase. Meaning add $40 to it so it is now a $120 shirt. So people will now be more likely to buy the American one, right? And you'll save money?

Wrong. Enter a thing called capitalism. With the Chinese item now more expensive, Amer8ca no longer has to be as competitive and will raise the price on theirs. So now they might charge you $115 for it.

That is how this usually goes. There are decades and decades of data that shows us what happens.

And most of the time, when one country hits another with tariffs, that country will usually impose retaliatory tariffs right back. Meaning, China will make American products more expensive. This exact thing happened years back with soy beans, which China buys a lot of from the US. They stopped buying them and it nearly bankrupted the soybean companies before they used taxpayer money to bail them out of it.

And ok, so what? It creates jobs, right? Wrll sometimes, they can. But it also destroys other jobs. So its not really going to help Americans in the long run.

Most republicans were always against tariffs, and this is an issue they happened to have always been right about.

everyone here knows tarrifs are stupid as fuck

post this to facebook or something

metralo posted...

everyone here knows tarrifs are stupid as fuck

post this to facebook or something

no let him tell it

Part of the reason why people are so stupid about it is because Trump told everyone that China would pay for it. When reporters pointed out that it would increase the cost of goods for Americans, Trump called it bullshit.

FYI tariffs worked during the Founders' time because the vast majority of foreign goods came from overseas, which made them luxury goods by default. And transporting goods across the sea wasn't exactly easy back then. It was certainly quite dangerous for the sailors. Occupational injuries were also incredibly high.

It's a sneaky way of transferring wealth from the proletariat to the capitalist class.

It's like someone took the time to explain what a tariff is to cheeto benito and he was half asleep and on his phone but then somehow ran away with the idea that china will somehow pay us more money......somehow. Idiot.

DisgracefulSins posted...

I feel like a lot of people misunderstand what these actually are. I am going to try and explain it to make it as simple as possible to understand.

So when a country decides to place a tariff on another country, this means that all goods getting imported from there will go up a certain percent.

So for example, say there is an expensive shirt you want. For the sake of argument, the US and China both make this shirt. They both make it from the same type of materials, both are the exact same quality.

But normally, the US sells it for $100, while the Chinese sells theirs for $80. Most people are more likely to purchase the Chinese product to save some money, right?

So enter the tariffs, which slaps China with a 50% increase. Meaning add $40 to it so it is now a $120 shirt. So people will now be more likely to buy the American one, right? And you'll save money?

Wrong. Enter a thing called capitalism. With the Chinese item now more expensive, Amer8ca no longer has to be as competitive and will raise the price on theirs. So now they might charge you $115 for it.

That is how this usually goes. There are decades and decades of data that shows us what happens.

And most of the time, when one country hits another with tariffs, that country will usually impose retaliatory tariffs right back. Meaning, China will make American products more expensive. This exact thing happened years back with soy beans, which China buys a lot of from the US. They stopped buying them and it nearly bankrupted the soybean companies before they used taxpayer money to bail them out of it.

And ok, so what? It creates jobs, right? Wrll sometimes, they can. But it also destroys other jobs. So its not really going to help Americans in the long run.

Most republicans were always against tariffs, and this is an issue they happened to have always been right about.

You forgot something else. I can't think of any examples off my head, but let's say there is a product that is only made in China. Trump slaps a 50% tariff on it in order to encourage American production. Except that there is no American production, and it would take a couple of years to get a factory up and running.

Modern US economy was built on the back of cheap chinese products. Pretty much why walmart and stores like it grew so much. Now bringing back some of these products would just make them absurdly expensive to the point that it isnt cost effective. Apple has said that the iphone would cost thousands more if it was made in the US. Would probably be the same for many other products.

So even with tarriffs theyre still likely cheaper. So no jobs back and left with higher prices thatll cripple the economy.

Nice explanation, but it doesn't even cover the possibility of a trade war, where if China were to respond with tariffs of their own, to the ones imposed on their own industries, to discourage the purchase of American goods.

darkbuster posted...

Nice explanation, but it doesn't even cover the possibility of a trade war, where if China were to respond with tariffs of their own, to the ones imposed on their own industries, to discourage the purchase of American goods.

I did, in one of my last paragraphs.

Its sad cuz China isnt paying any tariff they pass that onto anyone that needs stuff and those corps pass that onto us they arent gonna eat that fee so everything so exceptionally more expensive

Trump is dumb as fuck when it comes to economics.

Elon literally said Trumps policies will kill the economy yet why isnt he telling Trump that shit

darkbuster posted...

Nice explanation, but it doesn't even cover the possibility of a trade war, where if China were to respond with tariffs of their own, to the ones imposed on their own industries, to discourage the purchase of American goods.

Like how Canada responded to Trump's tariffs on steel and aluminum back in 2018. He dropped that one pretty quickly.

DisgracefulSins posted...

I did, in one of my last paragraphs.

Whoops, totally missed that part.

CADE_FOSTER posted...

Elon literally said Trumps policies will kill the economy yet why isnt he telling Trump that shit

You generally don't try to outshine your masters, especially if they have a high opinion of themselves, & don't take well to the idea of being corrected. It's a common theme for a good percentage of "The 48 Laws of Power"; I imagine even Musk can catch on that Trump wouldn't like anyone acting if they know better than him.

Lonestar2000 posted...

Trump is dumb as fuck when it comes to economics.

He is grifting for the rich and himself to be richer. He will steal as much taxes as he can from here on out.

TC forgot to post an example of tariffs causing a crippled economy. Tell the people about the Smoot/Hawley Tariffs.

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 was a law that raised import duties on more than 20,000 goods, including agricultural products, by an average of 4060%. The law was named after its sponsors, Senator Reed Smoot of Utah and Representative Willis C. Hawley of Oregon, and was signed into law by President Herbert Hoover on June 17, 1930.

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff had a number of consequences, including:

• Global trade decline
• The Smoot-Hawley Tariff led to a 65% decline in global trade.

• Retaliation by other countries
• Other countries responded to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff by raising their own tariffs on American goods, which further reduced trade.

• Exacerbated the Great Depression
• The Smoot-Hawley Tariff is often cited as a contributing factor to the Great Depression.

• Political considerations
• The Smoot-Hawley Tariff was driven by political considerations, with members of Congress being influenced by interest groups.

Hyena_Of_Ice posted...

You forgot something else. I can't think of any examples off my head, but let's say there is a product that is only made in China. Trump slaps a 50% tariff on it in order to encourage American production. Except that there is no American production, and it would take a couple of years to get a factory up and running.

I can't think of a product that is literally only made in China however there are many products for which American production cannot meet even close to the level of demand. Generally speaking the result of this is the domestic product price gets raised to match the tariffs anyway because they can and have nothing to lose.

CADE_FOSTER posted...

Elon literally said Trumps policies will kill the economy yet why isnt he telling Trump that shit

It's because it's part of the plan. Break America as we know it beyond repair and then reforge it in their own evil way.

Saying TARIFFS BAD is a gross oversimplification. They come with a cost, but they can have benefits as well. Sometimes the benefits are worth the cost, sometimes they aren't.

Most developed countries have tariffs on the books and work on an exception basis rather than defaulting to free trade and leveling tariffs from there. The US is a huge outlier in this regard, but the sheer amount of shit that we import is a big part of why. Tariffs generally don't make as much sense for us as for other countries because we are a black hole of consumerism that will take practically everything the world produces.

DisgracefulSins posted...

But normally, the US sells it for $100, while the Chinese sells theirs for $80. Most people are more likely to purchase the Chinese product to save some money, right?

So enter the tariffs, which slaps China with a 50% increase. Meaning add $40 to it so it is now a $120 shirt. So people will now be more likely to buy the American one, right? And you'll save money?

Wrong. Enter a thing called capitalism. With the Chinese item now more expensive, Amer8ca no longer has to be as competitive and will raise the price on theirs. So now they might charge you $115 for it.

That is a criticism of reckless, excessive tariffs rather than a criticism of tariffs themselves. Tariffs are often raised on commodities with well-established prices, which makes avoiding this very easy. When they aren't, the countries involved tend to negotiate tariffs toward the point where there isn't really room to raise prices. Many countries are also unafraid of mandating that companies maintain the price point that they are raising tariffs to secure.

There are a lot of mechanisms that make tariffs work significantly better than your example.

And most of the time, when one country hits another with tariffs, that country will usually impose retaliatory tariffs right back.

Retaliatory tariffs get thrown out by the WTO. In fact, the retaliatory tariffs you cited got thrown out by them last year.

It still took five years though, so there is still damage done. Tariffs need to be raised intentionally and for good reasons.

Covenant posted...

Saying TARIFFS BAD is a gross oversimplification. They come with a cost, but they can have benefits as well. Sometimes the benefits are worth the cost, sometimes they aren't.

i think you're missing one crucial element here

trump said tariffs. that's pretty much automatic evil death hell on ce. no matter what you argue.

People really only talk about consumer goods in regards to these tariffs but what about shit like steel? Lmao we're gonna get fucked big time

If there are tariffs across the board of even 10% (and Trump's saying 20-40% IIRC) that means things like tech purchases go absolutely crazy expensive.

There's no excuse for these tariffs. They're garbage policy that will break the global economy. The only amusing part is how all these wannabe oligarchs think they'll be the winners off destroying the current order, money flows up not down. It's why China abandoned the socialist path to combine communism with capitalism.

M1Astray posted...

If there are tariffs across the board of even 10% (and Trump's saying 20-40% IIRC) that means things like tech purchases go absolutely crazy expensive.

There's no excuse for these tariffs. They're garbage policy that will break the global economy. The only amusing part is how all these wannabe oligarchs think they'll be the winners off destroying the current order, money flows up not down. It's why China abandoned the socialist path to combine communism with capitalism.

He's said 60% for Chinese made goods, 100% for Mexican made (except for stuff specifically imported by John Deere which will be 200%), and 20% from everywhere else.
He added the Mexico and Deere ones explicitly in retaliation to Deere saying his initial teriffs (the 20 and 60%s) are going to force them to move manufacturing to Mexico. So expect the teriffs to exponentially increase as other manufacturers abandoning the US due to prohibitive costs or shutdown further fractures his anus.