Current Events > Pro-Palestinian Activists Who Shunned Harris Now Have More to Lose with Trump

(+) Yeah! (+)

Biggest lesson I've learned over the years is to stop punching down (or even sideways) to people who largely aren't making decisions for you. Punching up is the way to go. Stop hyperfocusing on immigration, Muslims, uncommitted movements, or EVEN conservative voters. Start focusing on those who are really running the show here. Put pressure on ALL of your leadership. Start calling out media for their lies and narrative forming. Fighting each other is exactly what what these people want anyway. It distracts you from the real enemy.

I've become proud of a lot of people in this message board over their stance changing over issues in Gaza when back in October of 2023, I felt very alone when I was defending Palestinians. I'm proud of you whenever you all call out the media for their bullshit. I'm happy whenever I see people blasting Elon. But then topics like these spring up and I realize, there's a long way to go before people fully start discussing real issues in this place.

Tmaster148 posted...

The point is at no step along the way did people ask "Did Trump earn my vote?" before he won.

This is wrong. You are out of touch with conservative voters. I'm trying to help you.

ModernPost posted...

This is wrong. You are out of touch with conservative voters. I'm trying to help you.

No you aren't.

ModernPost posted...

You guys are delusional if you think Republican politicians don't offer exactly what their little piggies want. The little pigs want abortion gone, they want immigrants rounded up and shot, they want liberals to suffer, they want to gorge on trickle-down scraps from the table, and Republicans make promises to do all those things.

The question then becomes do you want those things? Because if you don't, you have to vote to keep them out of office.

Tyranthraxus posted...

The question then becomes do you want those things? Because if you don't, you have to vote to keep them out of office.

I've always been open about who I voted for: Harris. I'm just not blaming the election on a very small cadre of voters who tried to exert what little political power they have over a broken system that doesn't democratically represent the actual will of the people. Harris didn't lose the election because of the anti-Israel voters who stayed home. Anti-Israel voters staying home had absolutely zero impact on the outcome of the election. Blaming them is absolutely delusional, and I'll call that out every time I see it.

ModernPost posted...

I've always been open about who I voted for: Harris. I'm just not blaming the election on a very small cadre of voters who tried to exert what little political power they have over a broken system that doesn't democratically represent the actual will of the people. Harris didn't lose the election because of the anti-Israel voters who stayed home. Anti-Israel voters staying home had absolutely zero impact on the outcome of the election. Blaming them is absolutely delusional, and I'll call that out every time I see it.

This isn't about you, or anti Israel voters.

This is about the general argument that Harris "didn't do anything to earn my votes"

As you rightfully pointed out, Trump made many promises that motivated his supporters, including everything from mass deportations to straight up extermination of Gazans and their American supporters.

Not only did approximately half the country just not vote, but millions less people voted this election than 2020. So much less so that even if all Harris did was match Joe Biden's numbers in 2020, she would have won.

So the same condemnation applies to all of them, regardless of the reason they chose to not vote for Harris.

Tyranthraxus posted...

This is about the general argument that Harris "didn't do anything to earn my votes"

That's not my argument. Again, my argument is that if Harris thought she needed those votes to win, she would have done more secure those votes. I don't think she thought she needed those votes to win. And for what it's worth, she's probably right about that. I've been consistent on that since even before the election.

Tyranthraxus posted...

So the same condemnation applies to all of them, regardless of the reason they chose to not vote for Harris.

Understanding the reason is key to doing better in the next election. Harris didn't motivate people to vote for her. I think she made a lot of mistakes but most of the blame is actually with Biden and the DNC. Biden's hubris cost Democrats the election, not a tiny bloc of abstainers.

ModernPost posted...

Biden's hubris cost Democrats the election, not a tiny bloc of abstainers.

Nah, those very vocal abstainers only helped encourage other people to stay home instead of voting.

Humble_Novice posted...

Nah, those very vocal abstainers only helped encourage other people to stay home instead of voting.

If 'vocal abstainers' can successfully influence this group, why can't the Democratic Party?

ai123 posted...

If 'vocal abstainers' can successfully influence this group, why can't the Democratic Party?

Because their voices were constantly amplified by the mass media to further discredit Democrats? You'd be blind to believe that the media has been very fair to both parties.

Humble_Novice posted...

Because their voices were constantly amplified by the mass media to further discredit Democrats? You'd be blind to believe that the media has been very fair to both parties.

It seems to me, then, that you're describing a problem with media. If it wasn't uncommitted, the media would have just amplified other critics instead.

You can't get 100 percent of the public on board with uncritical support of the party, but you can wrest control of institutions and media.

Humble_Novice posted...

Because their voices were constantly amplified by the mass media to further discredit Democrats? You'd be blind to believe that the media has been very fair to both parties.

So a disorganised rabble of social media 'vocal abstainers' are more effective in their outreach than an organization with thousands of professional strategists and a budget of hundreds of millions?

Seems like something they ought to try and address, because convincing people to vote for them is pretty much their most important job.

Complaining about media bias and voter stupidity while believing they ran a 'faultless' campaign isn't going to do it.

ai123 posted...

So a disorganised rabble of social media 'vocal abstainers' are more effective in their outreach than an organization with thousands of professional strategists and a budget of hundreds of millions?

not really because the democrats received far more votes than people who were swayed by the idiots from " abandon harris"

Are they going to display images of Trump's face with the words Genocide Don underneath or was that only for Joe Biden?

Sonixs posted...

Are they going to display images of Trump's face with the words Genocide Don underneath or was that only for Joe Biden?

I really hope that any President who supports a regime involved in ethnic cleansing and war crimes is strongly opposed every step of the way.

There's no question that Trump will deserve such an image. No one expects otherwise. Some protestors were naive enough to think the Democrats might not.

Sonixs posted...

Are they going to display images of Trump's face with the words Genocide Don underneath or was that only for Joe Biden?

they already achieved their goal of getting trump elected, they dont really need to do anything else

Rika_Furude posted...

they already achieved their goal of getting trump elected, they dont really need to do anything else

Exactly this. Their goal wasn't to protest genocide. It was to get Trump elected.

ModernPost posted...

You guys are delusional if you think Republican politicians don't offer exactly what their little piggies want. The little pigs want abortion gone, they want immigrants rounded up and shot, they want liberals to suffer, they want to gorge on trickle-down scraps from the table, and Republicans make promises to do all those things.

They don't just want immigrants round up and shot but they want live TV shootings of them, the LGBT, the disabled, and anyone who has voted for Hilary, Biden, or Kamala.

Sonixs posted...

Exactly this. Their goal wasn't to protest genocide. It was to get Trump elected.

Some were there to protest. They were hijacked by corporate interest to become the boogeyman for the dems. Actively telling them that they failed their mandate with shame. Voters couldn't defend and stayed home. Stopping people from voting is as effective as getting them to vote against their interest. Media influence can't be under stated.

ai123 posted...

I really hope that any President who supports a regime involved in ethnic cleansing and war crimes is strongly opposed every step of the way.

There's no question that Trump will deserve such an image. No one expects otherwise. Some protestors were naive enough to think the Democrats might not.

I think the point of that users question was will the same energy these people used against Dems before and more importantly during election time.... be used on Trump and the GOP.

Because recent history going back as far as 2016 says the answer to that question is a resounding no.

And the real funny part about it, this is literally one of the GOPs main strategies to take us gradually backwards.

Convince enough Dem leaning voters to stay home, while they gradually chip away at things. Ultimately making it harder and harder for Dems to reverse shit. Especially thanks to putity bs left leaners who demand all or nothing, or "its not good enough."

Our side is more susceptible to voting (includes not voting) in a way that ushers in a GOP winner. With said non voters/3rd party voters being easily convinced in their delusion they somehow stuck it to anyone but themselves and the people they claim to care about.

Sonixs posted...

Exactly this. Their goal wasn't to protest genocide. It was to get Trump elected.

As conspiracy theories go, this one is Pizzagate levels of stupid.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

As conspiracy theories go, this one is Pizzagate levels of stupid.

Its just a matter of looking at their actions and their accomplishments.

youd have to bend over backwards to align their actions with what they were saying and try and make those align. Thats the actual conspiracy shit

Rika_Furude posted...

Its just a matter of looking at their actions and their accomplishments.

youd have to bend over backwards to align their actions with what they were saying and try and make those align. Thats the actual conspiracy shit

If a person were genuinely opposed to the president's material and moral support for war crimes and ethnic cleansing, should they not have protested them?

ai123 posted...

If a person were genuinely opposed to the president's material and moral support for war crimes and ethnic cleansing, should they not have protested them?

If they were genuine they would vote against the worst option

Rika_Furude posted...

If they were genuine they would vote against the worst option

Not what I asked, but answered in a way.

"We will continue to boycott Democrats, and blame them for everything. We will then act shocked when they don't side with us."

Rika_Furude posted...

If they were genuine they would vote against the worst option

We have vanishingly little way of knowing who these people voted for as individuals. You're getting mad at hypotheticals.

Ifrit posted...

"We will continue to boycott Democrats, and blame them for everything. We will then act shocked when they don't side with us."

Couldn't this logic just as easily be reversed?

"We will continue supplying the weapons to slaughter a vulnerable group, and then act outraged when those who care about that group don't vote for us."

Rika_Furude posted...

If they were genuine they would vote against the worst option

That's why a lot did vote for Harris, but people in favor of the genocide would rather have people focus on those who didn't to make those opposed to the genocide look bad.

Antifar posted...

Couldn't this logic just as easily be reversed?

No, because they aren't protesting Republicans, who are also supplying arms and everything to Israel.

Antifar posted...

Couldn't this logic just as easily be reversed?

"We will continue supplying the weapons to slaughter a vulnerable group, and then act outraged when those who care about that group don't vote for us."

No, not really. As the people supporting not voting or going 3rd party stand more to lose.

Ifrit posted...

No, because they aren't protesting Republicans, who are also supplying arms and everything to Israel.

Republicans don't control the White House. Despite the belief of some that the executive branch is a powerless appendage, it really does have a lot of power in foreign policy and weapons sales that Congress does not.

Antifar posted...

Republicans don't control the White House. Despite the belief of some that the executive branch is a powerless appendage, it really does have a lot of power in foreign policy and weapons sales that Congress does not.

Really? They won't control the white house in... say 16 days? Weird how they're going to switch to 'local politics' now.

Antifar posted...

Republicans don't control the White House. Despite the belief of some that the executive branch is a powerless appendage, it really does have a lot of power in foreign policy and weapons sales that Congress does not.

Nothing you said changes Republicans have the power to approve sales, and was not powerless either.

Dems are always expected to be held to a high standard of accountability, while Republicans always get excuses and a pass for things they have done even worse. Even from supposed left leaners, the excuses poor in.

Somehow some way the focus is either all on Dems with excuses why we should ignore the GOPs actions, or some rationale that tries to pretend the 2 parties are about/almost the same.

I thought we were already past the finger pointing phase, and on to the popcorn eating phase.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4e33a38a.jpg

Humble_Novice posted...

Yet Trump somehow got more votes from them than Jill Stein.

Muslims are socially conservative.

kage_53 posted...

Muslims are socially conservative.

If there was ever a time for leftists to reevaluate how they do their purity tests without getting rid of it (which they probably never will get rid of it), this should've been it.

I still have no idea if Republicans would do better or worse without Trump.

Like, I don't know if this all is literally just Trump support, or if this is "the Right" coming out in general more than ever before.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

I still have no idea if Republicans would do better or worse without Trump.

Like, I don't know if this all is literally just Trump support, or if this is "the Right" coming out in general more than ever before.

It has more to do with Democrats messing up bigger than ever before. Hell, they lost States they had in the last election, Republicans are acting worse than usual, and they used Trump as a candidate to boot. This should've been a slam dunk for the Democrats.

Rika_Furude posted...

Its just a matter of looking at their actions and their accomplishments.

Or look at the Democrats' actions and their accomplishments - their blunders (including but not limited to their active support for mass murder in Gaza) led to Trump winning. It would be less stupid to say it was Biden and Harris's goal to get Trump elected - still very stupid, mind, but marginally less so.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

If there was ever a time for leftists to reevaluate how they do their purity tests without getting rid of it (which they probably never will get rid of it), this should've been it.

I think a lot of us overestimate how consistent white leftists tend to be with their purity tests.

Humble_Novice posted...

I think a lot of us overestimate how consistent white leftists tend to be with their purity tests.

Finding material (and illegal) support for ethnic cleansing and war crimes unacceptable is a very minimal standard for any 'purity test'.

It's not some abstruse point of political dogma.

ai123 posted...

Finding material (and illegal) support for ethnic cleansing and war crimes unacceptable is a very minimal standard for any 'purity test'.

It's not some abstruse point of political dogma.

When the people who are the subject of the ethnic cleansing literally said "Anyone but Trump" and yet people wouldn't listen to their plea's, it points to one of two things.

1. They believe that they know better than the very people being ethnically cleansed.
2. It was never about supporting them at all, it was about supporting their own personal views and using the genocide as a scapegoat.

It speaks to a HUGE issue with a lot of people in general. They don't fucking listen to the people who are being persecuted.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

They don't fucking listen to the people who are being persecuted.

If you want to talk about people not listening to the victims of Israeli persecution, start with Joe fucking Biden and Kamala fucking Harris.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

If you want to talk about people not listening to the victims of Israeli persecution, start with Joe fucking Biden and Kamala fucking Harris.

So when Palestinians said vote for anyone but Trump, you know better than them?

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

So when Palestinians said vote for anyone but Trump, you know better than them?

So when Palestinians said stop giving Israel money and weapons to kill us, you know better than them?

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

So when Palestinians said vote for anyone but Trump, you know better than them?

I'd be curious to see the polling numbers on this.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

So when Palestinians said stop giving Israel money and weapons to kill us, you know better than them?

Voting for Trump accomplished that?