Current Events > What's the problem with female as a noun again?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I missed the transition between it being a normal thing normal people do and it being a thing that makes Internet people flip their shit, and I'd appreciate a recap

contextual thing. referring to women as "females" comes off as incelly, but saying "female users" if you're talking about gfaqs for instance is different

It is generally used in scientific contexts, and so in everyday speech it just comes off as cold and dehumanizing.

The word 'woman' is right there. More inclusive and less biological.

Depends on the context.

Using "female" is fine normally. Using "female" as if describing something non-human when you're describing human women is when you run into problems.

Example 1: "Female lions hunt in packs."

Example 2: "These females out there don't know how to behave."

Because women are not iron men.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

I missed the transition between it being a normal thing normal people do

When was that?

It's a matter of connotation. Incel/Andrew Tate types started using the word to refer to women, so now if you use it to casually refer to them, people think you're that kinda guy.

pegusus123456 posted...

Andrew Tate

Oh, that guy. Should have figured.

There are several issues that it could be. First off, it is more a biological term rather than something that is used in normal day language so it sounds super funky a good chunk of the time. "Female's restroom" is a pretty easy one to point to as a highlighter for how wrong it sounds as not even the people that normally would misuse "female" in that exact way will do so. "Ladies", "woman/en", and "girls" are almost always able to be seemlessly be placed in the spots: something that cannot be said for most of the times that "female" should actually be used. Next, it is commonly used in contexts that explicitly highlight that it's mostly just people who are so used to crappy translation jobs (ie. machine translation) that use it rather than normal English-speaking people, with most of the people using "female" incorrectly being on the younger side and having grown up with easy access to pirated Chinese/Japanese media. Finally, there are some times where you should explicitly never use "female" in which it is commonly misused in the sense that "female" includes children. If someone asks if someone else "finds females attractive" not only does it hit the previous two things but it goes a step further and sounds more like a dogwhistle.

Nothing really. People just kinda look for reasons to be mad. Most cases, it's clearly harmless.

ai123 posted...

The word 'woman' is right there. More inclusive and less biological.

Except there are times where it doesn't make sense to use, because you could be referring to something that specifically refers to females and that's faster than saying "women and girls" and sounds more natural from speaking.

It genuinely feels like the type of people that's get upset about it are perpetually online.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/df5e649e.png
Interesting.

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/df5e649e.png
Interesting.

Okay.

Because I have no idea what "sus opinions" I have on Ukraine.

When was it normal? The Star Trek shows of the 80s and 90s had Ferengi referring to women as females in order to make the Ferengi more off-putting.

rick_alverado posted...

When was it normal? The Star Trek shows of the 80s and 90s had Ferengi referring to women as females in order to make the Ferengi more off-putting.

If you're referring to a demographic where age isn't specific. Ie, if you said "males," you're referring to anything that is a boy or a man. Ditto for females.

Most people aren't going to say "female" or "male" unless they are using it that way. Which is why it's weird to even try to avoid it.

pazzy posted...

Nothing really. People just kinda look for reasons to be mad. Most cases, it's clearly harmless.

Except there are times where it doesn't make sense to use, because you could be referring to something that specifically refers to females and that's faster than saying "women and girls" and sounds more natural from speaking.

It genuinely feels like the type of people that's get upset about it are perpetually online.

For those times when it 'doesn't make sense' not to use it, you can go ahead and use it. No one is trying to erase the word from the vocabulary.

You're trying to create confusion by saying that, just because it is fine in some contexts, people should accept it in all.

Language is more subtle than that. You don't have to be 'perpetually online' to realize this.

pazzy posted...

If you're referring to a demographic where age isn't specific. Ie, if you said "males," you're referring to anything that is a boy or a man. Ditto for females.

Most people aren't going to say "female" or "male" unless they are using it that way. Which is why it's weird to even try to avoid it.

If it's for situations that are not age-specific, that makes it worse, as a lot of adult men use the word "females" when talking about their dating lives.

pazzy posted...

Because I have no idea what "sus opinions" I have on Ukraine.

I can't remember either, but I trust past me when see things to be suspicious about :)

ai123 posted...

For those times when it 'doesn't make sense' not to use it, you can go ahead and use it. No one is trying to erase the word from the vocabulary.

You're trying to create confusion by saying that, just because it is fine in some contexts, people should accept it in all.

Language is more subtle than that. You don't have to be 'perpetually online' to realize this.

You're joking right? This isn't trying to create confusion.

That has nothing to do with people actively getting upset about it's use, hence the OP's question and topic.

But I can already see the revving of people pointlessly wanting to argue so good night.

rick_alverado posted...

If it's for situations that are not age-specific, that makes it worse, as a lot of adult men use the word "females" when talking about their dating lives.

And yes, that is poor usage of the word. Because they aren't dating just females, they'd be dating women presumably.
Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

I can't remember either, but I trust past me when see things to be suspicious about :)

I don't actually care what you think.

pazzy posted...

That has nothing to do with people actively getting upset about it's use, hence the OP's question and topic.

Then why this?

pazzy posted...

It genuinely feels like the type of people that's get upset about it are perpetually online.

pazzy posted...

But I can already see the revving of people pointlessly wanting to argue so good night.

pazzy posted...

I don't actually care what you think.

Why are you so pressed? On top of that, do you disagree with the connotations that other people have pointed out?

It makes you sound like a damn Ferengi

People got all revved up at me for saying it before, I can see negative use to it I guess but also where you/I grow up it might be used more or less

I've referred to females as females around other females and no one has ever had an issue with it therefore I shall continue to do so

The people that take offence to stuff like that are just out looking for stuff to be offended by.

pegusus123456 posted...

It's a matter of connotation. Incel/Andrew Tate types started using the word to refer to women, so now if you use it to casually refer to them, people think you're that kinda guy.

Wrong, I've heard it used since the 2000s. My black friends used it for decades, too, before anyone even knew Tate existed. They weren't being offensive either when using the word... they just called women females, and even said it to women, too, and those ladies didn't care. The ones that get mad/upset over it are white knight/overly sensitive types really.

It's fine for stuff like a nature documentary
"And now we see the female lion hunt a zebra"

Or statements like "this county needs more female police officers "

But it's wierd in everyday talk.
"Hey, dudes, guys, bros, and i guess, hello to the females"

kinetika_ posted...

Wrong, I've heard it used since the 2000s. My black friends used it for decades, too, before anyone even knew Tate existed. They weren't being offensive either when using the word... they just called women females, and even said it to women, too, and those ladies didn't care. The ones that get mad/upset over it are white knight/overly sensitive types really.

Okay.

But then

pegusus123456 posted...

Incel/Andrew Tate types started using the word to refer to women, so now if you use it to casually refer to them, people think you're that kinda guy.

When incels started to become the big buzzword, using "female" got associated with it, and now people always get their knickers in a bunch if you ever use it outside of a very formal context.

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/df5e649e.png
Interesting.

You should add sus views on women.

Some of you guys need to learn the difference between a noun and an adjective.

GiftedACIII posted...

You should add sus views on women.

There seem to be quite a few sus comments ITT from people who have no problem with it. How interesting.

There are some people who cannot cope with the fact that words shift meanings, and that they really are not in control of this.

They take it almost as a personal affront and, instead of adapting, respond with a stubborn 'well, that's the way I always use it and nobody has ever been offended so I'm not going to change'. As if that is a bold stance they should be proud of.

rick_alverado posted...

When was it normal? The Star Trek shows of the 80s and 90s had Ferengi referring to women as females in order to make the Ferengi more off-putting.

Oh, those Hoomons! Did you know they let their females wear clothes!?!

This right here is the problem: men are men (or dudes) but women are females
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/2ce13408.jpg

oh Jon

Guide posted...

When incels started to become the big buzzword, using "female" got associated with it, and now people always get their knickers in a bunch if you ever use it outside of a very formal context.

I don't think this is true. I remember "female" having the same connotation as it does now long before the internet age.

It's more specifically weird when people use "females" to describe women and do not use "males" to describe men

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f2a2ae38.jpg

Despised posted...

People got all revved up at me for saying it before, I can see negative use to it I guess but also where you/I grow up it might be used more or less

I've referred to females as females around other females and no one has ever had an issue with it therefore I shall continue to do so

Do you refer to men as males?

Nothing seriously wrong with it, but it's incorrect like addressing a man twice your age as "boy". Some women don't really like the way it comes off, not really rude but grating. I'd liken it to how some ppl don't like when person curses every other word. This is what my female friends relay to me.

I get you though TC. Every one of my black friends consistently use female in their vocab. I've never given it a second thought.

Oh stealth racism

"Female" as an adjective is very common. "Female lion," etc. and so on.

"Female" as a noun is very NOT common, and is typically used by incel/MRA types to try and dehumanize women.

Thus, it's an immediate red flag when somebody refers to a woman as "the female" or something similar, because that is not even remotely a normal way of speaking, and thus there is likely intent behind it.

Tyranthraxus posted...

This right here is the problem: men are men (or dudes) but women are females
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/2ce13408.jpg

Whew. /topic

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

I missed the transition between it being a normal thing normal people do and it being a thing that makes Internet people flip their shit, and I'd appreciate a recap

Absolutely nothing

It's kinda like how you can't refer to Asian people as oriental anymore. What context you use female is what draws the line between general statement and being condescending.

Also, you'll notice that those insisting that calling women "females" or "that female" is fine never actually answer the question of if they refer to men as "males" and "that male."

Wonder why.

Only use it if you'd use male in the same context.

The word "female" itself is not inherently wrong, but it can be problematic depending on context and usage. Some reasons people find it problematic include:

1. Reductionism: When referring to a person, using "female" as a noun (e.g., "the female") can reduce individuals to just their biological or reproductive traits, which may feel dehumanizing or overly simplistic.
2. Impersonal: In some contexts, using "female" might come across as clinical or impersonal, especially when referring to humans. People may prefer terms like "woman" or "girl" for clarity and respect.
3. Biological vs. Gender: "Female" is a biological term referring to sex, whereas "woman" or "girl" refers to gender, which encompasses identity and societal roles. The distinction between sex and gender is important in discussions around inclusivity and respect for diverse identities.
4. Connotations in Some Contexts: The word "female" can sometimes carry negative connotations when used in a context that feels objectifying, such as when describing people in certain social or professional settings where the term "woman" or "person" would be more appropriate.

In short, while "female" is appropriate in certain biological or scientific contexts, it's important to be mindful of how language might impact others in different situations.

I use it because it applies to the whole range of ages