Current Events > Where Are the Pro-Palestine Protesters Now?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Easier to punch down at the powerless, than up at the people in power. Highly unproductive though.

Tyranthraxus posted...

But on a more basic level, anti-genocide isn't really the same thing as civil rights. While there's a lot in common, there's a far more accurate protest to draw a comparison to: the Vietnam war protests. It checks basically all the same boxes. We just called it war or "protecting people from communism" instead of genocide.

Indeed, it is virtually impossible to conduct war against a homogenous population without meeting the UN definition of genocide. The Vietnam War would certainly be considered such.

Beany posted...

It is so bizarre to me that TC treats anti-genocide protesters as his #1 enemy.

It seems to be a recurring theme, but at least he's mixing things up now.

??? You seriously are unaware of the massive boycotts that have taken place over this?

Google seems to only be pulling up Trump making threats. Not so much protests themselves.

Aaron Bushnell literally set himself on fire in protest.

I'll never understand this type of protesting. Martyrdom only works when it's the oppressor doing the killing.

In any case, Tyranthraxus already corrected me on the differences.

They'll be gunned down.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Google seems to only be pulling up Trump making threats. Not so much protests themselves.

I'm sure people can debate how successful it's been but here's one quote from an article I found:

The boycott movement gained extraordinary momentum in 2024, fueled by global outrage over Israels escalating violence against Palestinians. Public protests turned into sustained economic resistance, with consumers disengaging actively from corporations complicit in Israels apartheid policies. Starbucks is one example of a global brand that felt the economic pressure. Reports indicate that the coffee giant lost millions in revenue due to targeted boycott campaigns and protests in multiple cities. Activists pointed to the companys ties to pro-Israel lobbying groups, making it a symbol of consumer pushback against complicity. This financial hit illustrates the boycotts growing power, forcing even the largest corporations to reckon with their associations. Yet, the boycotts significance is not merely economic. It is Israels fear of this movement that tells the real story. Laws have been passed across the United States attempting to suppress boycotts against Israel, exposing the fragility of a state that relies on global complicity to maintain its occupation.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241230-palestine-and-the-power-of-the-boycott-movement/

tankboy posted...

Indeed, it is virtually impossible to conduct war against a homogenous population without meeting the UN definition of genocide. The Vietnam War would certainly be considered such.

Even on a non "this is technically the UN definition of genocide" argument though. We literally dropped more bombs on that tiny country than we did in all WW2. We sprayed cancer causing chemicals everywhere designed to destroy the environment and people indiscriminately, and invaded TWO neighboring countries to try to kill people fleeing from what we were doing to them. This easily clears the bar for genocide.

This isn't actually a contest though. I'm not trying to say one is as bad/worse than the other. But the parallels are there. When people say things like "what if the civil rights movement waited" that misses the context of the circumstances. There wasn't ever going to be a "safe time" for people to demand equality for themselves.

But so the saying goes, help yourself before you try to help others. It applies on a macro level as well. If you can't even prevent your own country from being taken over by Nazis, you're certainly not going to be able to stop Nazis 5000 miles away.

Antifar posted...

The same place BLM went. Or the Women's March. Or, to go further back, Vietnam War protests.

Protests require energy, effort, and attention to maintain. People burn our, especially when they're facing professional and legal consequences. It becomes harder to attract new voices if it doesn't seem like change is possible. And the media stops paying attention as the novelty wears off.

The campus protests that drew such attention last spring either didn't exist or received a fraction of the attention even by fall semester, with Biden still in office.

Truth. Unfortunate truth, but truth. Even at massacre levels. The world completely forget about Syria until Assad fell for example, despite all the terrible things being committed every month by the Assad regime.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

What?

People say that Biden is running a bad campaign and should drop out before its too late > Biden drops out very late > Harris runs a campaign alligned with Biden's > People say this campaign is also bad and could lose > Campaign loses

What are you insulted by in this chain of events?

Progressives weren't just saying he was running a bad campaign. They were going on and on about how they hated the man. This is all before the debate even happened. Biden had unfavorable conditions before the debate because of the shitfest progressives had to start leading into 2024. Then rather than focus on some of the strengths of Biden's presidency and the real world implications of a subsequent Trump presidency, an enormously discouraging amount of progressives decided to join in with so called "anti-establishment" bashing that right-wingers eagerly egged on concerning any shortcoming they could point out about Biden. This hurt Biden's image horribly before typical, politically uninvolved Americans, and to act like it had no impact is complete bullshit.

LoZguy709 posted...

Biden had unfavorable conditions before the debate because of the shitfest progressives had to start leading into 2024.

This just isn't true. His approval polling had hovered right about 40 percent from late 2021
https://news.gallup.com/poll/329384/presidential-approval-ratings-joe-biden.aspx

If there's a noticeable decline in his polling because of Gaza, it is very hard to see here.

Unfortunately, the event that coincides with the biggest drop in his approval was withdrawal from Afghanistan - one of the best things he did with his presidency!

Antifar posted...

This just isn't true. His approval polling had hovered right about 40 percent from late 2021
https://news.gallup.com/poll/329384/presidential-approval-ratings-joe-biden.aspx

If there's a noticeable decline in his polling because of Gaza, it is very hard to see here.

Unfortunately, the event that coincides with the biggest drop in his approval was withdrawal from Afghanistan - one of the best things he did with his presidency!

He couldn't get approval from progressives, and thus his approval rating suffered. Not only that, but presidents often have struggling approval ratings a decent way into their presidency (it's not about having over a 50% approval rating, just having a higher one than the other presumptive candidate), and the Afghanistan withdrawal, Israel/Palestine conflict, and inflation arising in large part from government spending related to COVID, coupled with the relative few on the left willing to go to bat for him, he had a shitty set of circumstances to deal with and we basically made him a modern Jimmy Carter.

A presidential administration can't expect other people to do the work - the politics - of selling its record for it. Biden's staff largely shut him away from media from an early point in his presidency.
https://www.axios.com/2024/07/04/biden-media-interviews-press-data

This left a vacuum that was filled by voices critical of the administration. The debate made clear to the public what those around him already knew: he was no longer an effective salesman for his agenda.

Intro2Logic posted...

A presidential administration can't expect other people to do the work - the politics - of selling its record for it. Biden's staff largely shut him away from media from an early point in his presidency.
https://www.axios.com/2024/07/04/biden-media-interviews-press-data

This left a vacuum that was filled by voices critical of the administration. The debate made clear to the public what those around him already knew: he was no longer an effective salesman for his agenda.

Shitty advocacy at inopportune times has severe consequences. You act like it was all Biden's job to convince Americans to vote for him, as if we're not all suffering the consequences of progressives being a crux of any campaign Democrats wanted to get off the ground.

apocalyptic_4 posted...

TC crusade against Palestine protesters is getting old.

What's old is the very vocal "uncommitted" people here refusing to apologize for their actions and behavior.

LoZguy709 posted...

You act like it was all Biden's job to convince Americans to vote for him

...Yes,it is the job of the candidate to convince people to vote for him lol. How is that in any doubt >_>.

and yes, as someone who doesn't live in America, I can tell you that Genocide Joe was not liked all over the world not just in America, for precisely what the nickname states. And I know a LOT of people in my country who agree that he deserved the nickname. The terrible actions of Trump doesn't in anyway excuse the terrible actions of Biden. Each head of state is fully responsible for the actions he takes during his tenure and should be praised or condemned for them.

LoZguy709 posted...

You act like it was all Biden's job to convince Americans to vote for him,

yes.

That's what he and his staffers get paid for, yes.

If you want the unpaid labor of activists and college students, you can't afford to alienate them with repeated violations of US law in support of the slaughter of people they care about.

Intro2Logic posted...

yes.

That's what he and his staffers get paid for, yes.

If you want the unpaid labor of activists and college students, you can't afford to alienate them with repeated violations of US law in support of the slaughter of people they care about.

It's up to the voter to know the candidates before they chose one.

It's the duty of the candidate to provide that information.

But at the end of the day, it's the voter in the voting booth, not the campaign staff.

Beany posted...

I'm sure people can debate how successful it's been but here's one quote from an article I found:

The boycott movement gained extraordinary momentum in 2024, fueled by global outrage over Israels escalating violence against Palestinians. Public protests turned into sustained economic resistance, with consumers disengaging actively from corporations complicit in Israels apartheid policies. Starbucks is one example of a global brand that felt the economic pressure. Reports indicate that the coffee giant lost millions in revenue due to targeted boycott campaigns and protests in multiple cities. Activists pointed to the companys ties to pro-Israel lobbying groups, making it a symbol of consumer pushback against complicity. This financial hit illustrates the boycotts growing power, forcing even the largest corporations to reckon with their associations. Yet, the boycotts significance is not merely economic. It is Israels fear of this movement that tells the real story. Laws have been passed across the United States attempting to suppress boycotts against Israel, exposing the fragility of a state that relies on global complicity to maintain its occupation.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241230-palestine-and-the-power-of-the-boycott-movement/

Thank you for this article.

They're all being rounded up for a stay in Guantanamo Bay as we speak.

FFTHEWINNER posted...

...Yes,it is the job of the candidate to convince people to vote for him lol. How is that in any doubt >_>.

and yes, as someone who doesn't live in America, I can tell you that Genocide Joe was not liked all over the world not just in America, for precisely what the nickname states. And I know a LOT of people in my country who agree that he deserved the nickname. The terrible actions of Trump doesn't in anyway excuse the terrible actions of Biden. Each head of state is fully responsible for the actions he takes during his tenure and should be praised or condemned for them.

So you live in a country other than America and are unfamiliar with how most Americans thought of the Israel/Palestine conflict? The Genocide Joe crap started with the very same progressives I was talking about, and don't start thinking most Americans were on board with going hard on Israel to demand a ceasefire, or you clearly don't have any idea what the fuck the cultural landscape is in this country other than what you read online.

Nothings ever gon change lol

LoZguy709 posted...

So you live in a country other than America and are unfamiliar with how most Americans thought of the Israel/Palestine conflict? The Genocide Joe crap started with the very same progressives I was talking about, and don't start thinking most Americans were on board with going hard on Israel to demand a ceasefire, or you clearly don't have any idea what the fuck the cultural landscape is in this country other than what you read online.

wasn't there a poll that most american's did in fact support a cease fire i remember a poster who posted it but outside of this the conflict after the election was shown not to be the top reason voters turned out but instead they blamed biden admin for the price of eggs going up
and progressive aren't a monolith ofc most of them will rip on the dems cuz they want their party to be better and have more teeth in their fight against the gop instead of the usual decorum BS which is stupid when you see how the gop wants to throw civility out the window but in the end of the day they vote blue
the ones you are angry are the voters who don't engage in politics and only vote on vibes and how their life is going and note this election tells us if it wasn't for covid which effected americans then the 2020 election would've had trump win again cuz these non engaged voters believe that trump is a genius business man who knows how to make them rich

gikos posted...

wasn't there a poll that most american's did in fact support a cease fire i remember a poster who posted it but outside of this the conflict after the election was shown not to be the top reason voters turned out but instead they blamed biden admin for the price of eggs going up
and progressive aren't a monolith ofc most of them will rip on the dems cuz they want their party to be better and have more teeth in their fight against the gop instead of the usual decorum BS which is stupid when you see how the gop wants to throw civility out the window but in the end of the day they vote blue
the ones you are angry are the voters who don't engage in politics and only vote on vibes and how their life is going and note this election tells us if it wasn't for covid which effected americans then the 2020 election would've had trump win again cuz these non engaged voters believe that trump is a genius business man who knows how to make them rich

Sure, most Americans (which to be clear, I mean US citizens) supported a ceasefire, but it was a matter of how vulnerable we were willing to make Israel, and while it's more complicated than I can really speak on in full, Biden cutting funding in Israel followed by more Israeli deaths following October 2023 would have been a central effective attacking point of Trump's campaign. It was only when the election had already been decided that Netanyahu (for now) has seemed to be willing to really come to the table.

You're right progressives aren't a monolith and I hold no contempt whatsoever for the types like AOC who stood by their principles but in no way undercut Biden's or Harris' campaigns.

I'm angry with the progressives who helped set such negative vibes against Biden, when they should have known full well that Project 2025, including our country's role in the climate crisis, our foreign policy, and our democratic institutions, was on the table. They knew the true threats but chose to act upon irresponsible impulse instead.

Probably wishing that all of them had voted for Kamala instrad of most of them. Not that that stops Humble from blaming that tiny fraction for overturning the entire election. Theyre like DEI is for Trump. A scapegoat to blame for everything.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3a14e260.jpg

LosingStreak06 posted...

TC tacitly admitting he hasnt taken part in any pro-Palestinian demonstrations is one of the biggest self-owns I can imagine. Let me guess, you sat on your computer ceremoniously typing while the Black Lives Matter protests were happening in 2020, too?

How is that a self own on the TC if his point is most of the protestors ever so coincidentally disappeared the moment Trump was elected?

The BLM protestors actually protested against Trump during his presidency.

Cory898 posted...

Probably wishing that all of them had voted for Kamala instrad of most of them. Not that that stops Humble from blaming that tiny fraction for overturning the entire election. Theyre like DEI is for Trump. A scapegoat to blame for everything.

I wouldn't compare the 2.

The non voters arent blameless in their actions, don't deserve to be coddled flwanting sympathy for their suffering, and they certainly aren't comparable to people who at least tried to stop Trump but now being labeled, "DEI."

LoZguy709 posted...

I'm angry with the progressives who helped set such negative vibes against Biden, when they should have known full well that Project 2025, including our country's role in the climate crisis, our foreign policy, and our democratic institutions, was on the table. They knew the true threats but chose to act upon irresponsible impulse instead.

progressive weren't the ones who flamed those vibes instead they wanted someone fresh cuz biden had too much negative thanks to the media and come one at this point we can see the dem leaders not pushing for biden not running again was a mistake plus biden picking garland for DoJ was another blunder as well and we heard how polling from the biden team had he lose swing states hard against trump so him not dropping out sooner is another mistake on him plus the cherry on top was when he admitted he wasn't sure if he can continue his next term if had he won so at least biden and the dem leaders aren't blameless here but the vast dumb voters who voted for trump show but the ones to get all our anger cuz they choose to be conned by him

asdf8562 posted...

I wouldn't compare the 2.

The non voters arent blameless in their actions, don't deserve to be coddled flwanting sympathy for their suffering, and they certainly aren't comparable to people who at least tried to stop Trump but now being labeled, "DEI."

I didnt say anything about non voters. I said Pro-Palestine protesters probably wish the few of them who sat out had joined them in voting for Kamala.

Cory898 posted...

I didnt say anything about non voters. I said Pro-Palestine protesters probably wish the few of them who sat out had joined them in voting for Kamala.

What I said goes for the Pro Palestine Protestors who promoted staying home, going uncommitted, going 3rd party.

Also the ones that didn't vote are non voters btw.

gikos posted...

progressive weren't the ones who flamed those vibes instead they wanted someone fresh cuz biden had too much negative thanks to the media and come one at this point we can see the dem leaders not pushing for biden not running again was a mistake plus biden picking garland for DoJ was another blunder as well and we heard how polling from the biden team had he lose swing states hard against trump so him not dropping out sooner is another mistake on him plus the cherry on top was when he admitted he wasn't sure if he can continue his next term if had he won so at least biden and the dem leaders aren't blameless here but the vast dumb voters who voted for trump show but the ones to get all our anger cuz they choose to be conned by him

Let's not be mistaken - I am deeply ashamed to be American right now because of the voting decisions of the majority of our population. I also don't hold the DNC or our Democratic leadership in 2024 blameless. However, given the situation we were in in 2024, the loudest progressives were the worst of allies a party could want and they proved they are not a reliable voter base, and instead have incentivized the Democratic party to sway further right to convert would-be Republican voters to vote Democrat or even not vote at all for whatever reason, as the latter would still be a net plus equivalent to a progressive vote.

Cory898 posted...

I didnt say anything about non voters. I said Pro-Palestine protesters probably wish the few of them who sat out had joined them in voting for Kamala.

seeing the math had even some of them did she would still lose despite the total votes from those who voted 3rd party
and another thing some of you don't get tc doesn't want these voters to vote for dems he wants dems to drop them and the left as well cuz he thinks if that happens somehow some magic moderate centrist voters will replace them and this time they will win and if they don't he will use them as punching bags to blame them for not voting them or daring to voice their angry at the party
so i see his next punching bag might be trans community cuz i see some asshole dems throwing them under the bus so once they start speaking out against that he will shit to them next

LoZguy709 posted...

the loudest progressives were the worst of allies a party could want and they proved they are not a reliable voter base, and instead have incentivized the Democratic party to sway further right to convert would-be Republican voters to vote Democrat or even not vote at all for whatever reason, as the latter would still be a net plus equivalent to a progressive vote.

and how did that work out cuz let me tell you from someone who saw this tactic blow up in another country that doesn't work period there isn't a would be moderate or rightwinger would vote for a discount rightwing party not this era when they have a true rightwing to vote for that will do their intended damage
the UK tired this and the only reason the nutjobs lost is cuz they split into two parties of gop and maga version that is the only reason UK was barely saved let that sink in throwing progressive under the bus and courting centerish is just asking to get your ass handed to you

asdf8562 posted...

What I said goes for the Pro Palestine Protestors who promoted staying home, going uncommitted, going 3rd party.

Also the ones that didn't vote are non voters btw.

Ok but TC didnt talk about them. He talked about pro Palestine protesters in much broader terms. And as a group my belief is most of them followed their leaderships recommendation to vote to prevent Trump from winning to its most logical conclusion.

gikos posted...

and how did that work out cuz let me tell you from someone who saw this tactic blow up in another country that doesn't work period there isn't a would be moderate or rightwinger would vote for a discount rightwing party not this era when they have a true rightwing to vote for that will do their intended damage
the UK tired this and the only reason the nutjobs lost is cuz they split into two parties of gop and maga version that is the only reason UK was barely saved let that sink in throwing progressive under the bus and courting centerish is just asking to get your ass handed to you

Oh so basically the UK held on because the party divide happened on the other side of the spectrum? How convenient.

LoZguy709 posted...

Oh so basically the UK held on because the party divide happened on the other side of the spectrum? How convenient.

you joke but i expected this to happen in america if had trump lost a second time and that would've saved america in 2028

gikos posted...

you joke but i expected this to happen in america if had trump lost a second time and that would've saved america in 2028

I very remorsefully joke because if the left had their shit together and quit trashing on their own party like it was the latest trend in town, we could have done more to pigeonhole the right to fight amongst each other with their own party divide.

LoZguy709 posted...

I very remorsefully joke because if the left had their shit together and quit trashing on their own party like it was the latest trend in town, we could have done more to pigeonhole the right to fight amongst each other with their own party divide.

seeing how france after the kick in the nut for the centrist in the first round they started to panicked and went and united with left which helped them contain the right a little showed what happens when the status quo party stop fighting with the left but after the election ofc those assholes went back and started fight the left wing and is courting the right wing party cuz they would rather work with them then let the left form a govt which they are having their own shitshow there

gikos posted...

seeing how france after the kick in the nut for the centrist in the first round they started to panicked and went and united with left which helped them contain the right a little showed what happens when the status quo party stop fighting with the left but after the election ofc those assholes went back and started fight the left wing and is courting the right wing party cuz they would rather work with them then let the left form a govt which they are having their own shitshow there

I wish the US could have been more like France, but that's not what happened, and if you're asking me as an American that has lots of left-leaning people in his social circle, progressives (as a collective or even just the most prominent voices) were the true agitators in 2024 within the party. I don't care what grudges they had; they dropped the ball by effectively promoting political apathy and should damn well have been aware of the possible consequences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2c_-9kIjyU

Usually this same type of topic regurgitates the same arguments, but this discussion with foreign parallels is putting a new spin on it.

Tyranthraxus posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2c_-9kIjyU

...This has to be fake >_>

tankboy posted...

Indeed, it is virtually impossible to conduct war against a homogenous population without meeting the UN definition of genocide. The Vietnam War would certainly be considered such.

I mean it's easily possible if you simply don't conduct war crimes.

LoZguy709 posted...

Progressives weren't just saying he was running a bad campaign. They were going on and on about how they hated the man.

And rightfully so.

This is all before the debate even happened. Biden had unfavorable conditions before the debate because of the shitfest progressives had to start leading into 2024. Then rather than focus on some of the strengths of Biden's presidency and the real world implications of a subsequent Trump presidency,

Why are progressives, who the democrats have ignored and belittled for ages, responsible for running Biden's campaign and messaging?

an enormously discouraging amount of progressives decided to join in with so called "anti-establishment" bashing that right-wingers eagerly egged on concerning any shortcoming they could point out about Biden. This hurt Biden's image horribly before typical, politically uninvolved Americans, and to act like it had no impact is complete bullshit.

Again, progressives aren't responsible for democrat messaging. If they didn't want Biden's shortcomings pointed out, they should've ran a candidate that didn't have those shortcomings.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Why are progressives, who the democrats have ignored and belittled for ages, responsible for running Biden's campaign and messaging?

Progressives are definitely not solely responsible, but once Biden was the nominee the specific ones joining hands with Republicans to message on "Biden bad" as if Trump was better.... have some responsibility.

Non voters, 3rd party voters and voters who didn't want Trump to win but spent 60 to 90%+ of their time specifically attacks Democrats want no accountability in the role they played. It doesn't work like that.

Elections have consequences regardless. The Democrat General nominee will win or the Republican General nominee will win. Spending months before the General election directing most of your messaging at negatively attacking Democrats only served to help Trump.

Regardless of whatever shortcomings the Democrat nominee has. It doesn't change spending months helping Republicans, and messaging on trying to convince others "they mind as well be the same" or absurd logic akin to it helped Trump.

asdf8562 posted...

Progressives are definitely not solely responsible, but once Biden was the nominee the specific ones joining hands with Republicans to message on "Biden bad" as if Trump was better.... have some responsibility.

Non voters, 3rd party voters and voters who didn't want Trump to win but spent 60 to 90%+ of their time specifically attacks Democrats want no accountability in the role they played. It doesn't work like that.

Elections have consequences regardless. The Democrat General nominee will win or the Republican General nominee will win. Spending months before the General election directing most of your messaging at negatively attacking Democrats only served to help Trump.

Regardless of whatever shortcomings the Democrat nominee has.

Also progressives love to play the victim when they don't go out and cultivate a progressive candidate in primaries. They wonder why Democrats don't have more progressive candidates, but it's simply because progressives don't show up at a meaningful level.

But remember everyone, those of us that called them out for only wanting to get Trump elected were somehow pro genocide lol

And now we have Trump, and they protesters nowhere to be found.

Liberals living up to the reputation of hating leftists more than MAGA.

squall567 posted...

Liberals living up to the reputation of hating leftists more than MAGA.

I'll never understand it.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

And rightfully so.

Why are progressives, who the democrats have ignored and belittled for ages, responsible for running Biden's campaign and messaging?

Again, progressives aren't responsible for democrat messaging. If they didn't want Biden's shortcomings pointed out, they should've ran a candidate that didn't have those shortcomings.

Progressives are part of Democrats messaging, especially in a presidential election season, and people like you were abysmal to have as part of it.

squall567 posted...

Leftists living up to the reputation of hating liberals more than MAGA.

Fixed it for ya!

Leftists, tell us what you think of Harris and the Democratic party? Can you do so without tearing them down?