Current Events > Kamala's campaign DIDN'T EVEN COLLECT DATA on Gaza as an issue

(+) Yeah! (+)

lilORANG posted...

Who cares. She was clearly the better candidate. Voters are stupid and or evil

This mindset is why Democrats fucking suck & lose

gmanthebest posted...

Didn't Trump say he'd tell Israel to "finish the job" or something similar? Not sure why Harris would need to address Gaza when the opposition was clearly much worse than the (at the time) current administration.

Gaza was a big issue for a lot of people, and Harris dropped the ball hard by assuming that most Americans still want to bow down to Israel. I voted for Harris because Im trans and it would have been suicidal not to, but a lot of people did sit out over Gaza.

gmanthebest posted...

Didn't Trump say he'd tell Israel to "finish the job" or something similar? Not sure why Harris would need to address Gaza when the opposition was clearly much worse than the (at the time) current administration.

Democrats play defense too much. It was a clearly winning issue. She could've gone on the offensive. She didn't press him to elaborate on what he meant by "finish the job." A lot of Americans needs it spelled out for them and if Trump was allowed to ramble on about that issue it could've made a difference.

McMarbles posted...

What fucking cartoons are you watching?

https://twitter.com/DropSiteNews/status/1846612457734942923

Have you ever seen a bigger snake in your fucking life? If you were tuned into the conflict, it was a nonstop barrage of clips of this weasel lying about blatant Israeli war cimes without a single ounce of guilt in his body. Every time Biden drew a red line, Netanyahu crossed it without a second thought and you'd get a headline of Biden having a "very tough phone call" to Netanyahu before rubber stamping another billion dollars of bombs to drop on toddlers. I don't know how much more cartoonish it can get.

Garioshi posted...

Have you ever seen a bigger snake in your fucking life?

The guy people like you helped elect.

Akuryu posted...

The guy people like you helped elect.

If the Democrats had an ounce of a spine, Trump wouldnt have been up for re election because he would have faced justice

I think she was couldn't win on this issue. I don't know that acknowledging the moment and meeting whatever their demands were would have gotten her enough votes in all the states she needed to win. Especially when you consider she could have lost some votes in the process as well.

Edit: I still think it's dumb people withheld their vote over this issue given Trump was the alternative

hivebent4life posted...

If the Democrats had an ounce of a spine, Trump wouldnt have been up for re election because he would have faced justice

It's always the Democrats fault isn't it? Everything they do or don't do AND everything Republicans do or don't do.

Akuryu posted...

The guy people like you helped elect.

Oh, shut the fuck up. I voted for Kamala. Are you telling me I shouldn't have uttered a single word of criticism towards her and her campaign on top of that?

Akuryu posted...

It's always the Democrats fault isn't it? Everything they do or don't do AND everything Republicans do or don't do.

You think its a good thing that Biden appointed and failed to replace Garland, who actively chose to let Trump get away with all his crimes?

Garioshi posted...

Oh, shut the fuck up. I voted for Kamala. Are you telling me I shouldn't have uttered a single word of criticism towards her and her campaign on top of that?

Yes, there are actually a handful of users on CE parroting the same discussion-derailing silliness whenever theres criticism of Harris campaign regardless of validity. Though I will also say that there are like 2 or 3 people on CE (not you, to be very clear) whose posting habits do veer more into sounding like a conservative shock jockey rather than levying legitimate criticism or skepticism toward the Democrats.

Anyway, I find the continuous mislabeling of Democrat detractors as MAGA or Trump voters to be pretty juvenile, but I can sympathize with lashing out at others during times of extreme duress. I still feel its immature and misguided, though.

Akuryu posted...

You're a clown. Unironically making "but Kamala!" threads while our democracy crumbles. Do us all a favor and stop talking. Somewhere, there's an orange dick that needs sucking. Probably Florida.

Sorry, I was under the impression that saving our democracy was incumbent on the government for the past 4 years and the candidate running against the guy loudly screaming he'll destroy our democracy. Guess I missed that one, I'll get right on it. Is there anything in the world that the Democrats ARE responsible for?

JoCrazy posted...

This mindset is why Democrats fucking suck & lose

Democrats suck and lose bc they are wimps and competing against cheaters. Trump didn't gain 3 million more votes than in 2020 bc Kamala didn't talk about Gaza. He did that bc voters are morons.

Akuryu posted...

It's always the Democrats fault isn't it? Everything they do or don't do AND everything Republicans do or don't do.

No Hitler is still bad...but Chamberland still get the blame for not stopping it when he could. And unlike Chamberland . And honestly Chamberland had a lot more reasons not be aggressive .

Garioshi posted...

Oh, shut the fuck up. I voted for Kamala. Are you telling me I shouldn't have uttered a single word of criticism towards her and her campaign on top of that?

During the general election?

FUCK NO, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE!!! (Publicly, that is.)

ai123 posted...

If more people felt that she had, the Trump nightmare would have been avoided.

Which is a moronic thought process of the people defending those who defended not voting for Kamala when Trump was the other choice.

Voters also have a responsibility to assess the consequences of the other guy winning.

Those that keep going "but genocide" doesn't change Trump was worse. While you specifically aren't doing that, the "but genocide" crowd seems to think chanting that absolve themselves of any accountability as a voter to make sure the worse option doesn't win.

Everything that's happening now, democrat voters predicted and begged people to hear them.

I'll leave it at that.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Bro either can't comprehend 3 simple sentences posted on gamefaqs.gamespot.com or deliberately misrepresents what was said, thus demonstrating my point.

Amazing

Tom_Joad posted...

During the general election?

FUCK NO, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE!!! (Publicly, that is.)

Why stop at public criticism?

Thoughts influence actions, and the actions of one person influence the actions of others.

Even thinking about criticism against the Democrats during the general election was tantamount to venmoing the Trump campaign $1000 and roughly 5 - 8 Trump votes depending on whether they were in a swing state or not.

Truly shameful that some people will think this line of thinking is ludicrous - but hey, folks will do whatever they can do escape accountability for their actions.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That isn't what he said.

Saying the word genocide doesn't magically change what was at stake for everyone including the people you claimed to want to help but only was cheerleader to make worse.

"But genocide" doesn't magically change Trump was worse for those people, the protestors, Gaza itself, and more

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Read this sentence out loud for us, please. You arent making the point you think youre making.

the protest voters dismissed concerns about the genocide because they thought they were clever/cute saying genocide is genocide, genocide Joe

Liberalism is and has historically always been unable to provide effective opposition to fascism. The fact that most liberals are okay with genocide as long as their side is doing illustrates that fact well. Only leftism can oppose fascism

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Not dismissing the genocide in Gaza. But i am perfectly within my right to think protest voters are also stupid for not weighing their options.

I'm wondering how the people of Gaza feel about those protest votes knowing it meant Trump was going to make their lives even harder.

Even if you feel that "the voters are stupid" is correct analysis, it's a political dead end. Where are you to go from there? Will a smarter electorate into existence? Berate people and call them morons until they agree with you? It can't be done one by one at the scale required.

Institutions and campaigns, however, can reach and influence mass audiences. Even marginal improvements in their approaches can have significant effects.

You're pulling at the short end of the lever and wondering why it won't budge.

Antifar posted...

Even if you feel that "the voters are stupid" is correct analysis, it's a political dead end. Where are you to go from there? Will a smarter electorate into existence? Berate people and call them morons until they agree with you? It can't be done one by one at the scale required.

Institutions and campaigns, however, can reach and influence mass audiences. Even marginal improvements in their approaches can have significant effects.

You're pulling at the short end of the lever and wondering why it won't budge.

Because coddling these people and telling them yet again that nothing they do is ever wrong; telling them they have no responsibility for embracing ignorance has done us so many favors?

It's not like we don't have plenty of past elections yielding poor results from coddling these people. Frankly even now they're still being coddled.

Tom_Joad posted...

During the general election?

FUCK NO, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE!!! (Publicly, that is.)

Do you have no upper limit on the atrocities that can be committed by an administration before criticizing them is acceptable? 50,000 dead is too low, what about 100,000? 500,000? A million? All of them? Would Kamala have to personally construct concentration camps? An entire ethnicity was being wiped off the map and I have to shut my mouth because it would hurt the people committing the genocide? Their campaign is so weak that talking about the things they're doing is enough to sink it?

Instead of making excuses, the Democrats need to come up with some winning strategies for 2026 and 2028.

Antifar posted...

Even if you feel that "the voters are stupid" is correct analysis, it's a political dead end.

It's not a dead end in the sense that we have to know what the electorate looks like and Democrats regularly overestimate that the average voter won't be a mouth breathing moron. There need to be better ways to communicate with these people at their level if we want them. But whining about Kamala months after the fact is also pointless. Thus "who cares"

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Trump voters and the abandon Harris voters arent victims. They are perpetrators. They looked at two options and chose, of their own free will, the greater evil.

What is the "silenced Palestinian speaker at DNC" about. I vaguely recall hearing this at the time, but as more details came out, it was a lot more nuanced. Like one speaker was accepted and another was going to speak, but then kept moving the goalposts in regards to what they wanted in order to speak.

loafy013 posted...

What is the "silenced Palestinian speaker at DNC" about. I vaguely recall hearing this at the time, but as more details came out, it was a lot more nuanced. Like one speaker was accepted and another was going to speak, but then kept moving the goalposts in regards to what they wanted in order to speak.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/08/dnc-speech-uncommitted-movement-harris-walz-ruwan-romman/

asdf8562 posted...

Because coddling these people and telling them yet again that nothing they do is ever wrong; telling them they have no responsibility for embracing ignorance has done us so many favors?

It's not like we don't have plenty of past elections yielding poor results from coddling these people. Frankly even now they're still being coddled.

What does your approach for not "coddling" them look like?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

No, because again, THEY DID NOT COLLECT IT.

I think Harris would've won if she signaled stronger support for Gaza. I think she had too many zionists in her sphere of influence. For issues she's not personally passionate about, she has shown a pattern of listening to those around her.

I think what the Uncommitted movement was doing was generally correct, but it was Abandon Harris and the affiliated people that were burning bridges. The uncommitted movement met with Harris and things were looking good, so I'm not sure what happened during their meetings.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d50640d2.png

Intro2Logic posted...

What does your approach for not "coddling" them look like?

Educating these people they also are accountable and responsible for making sure the greater evil doesn't win.

It's not just the politicians who have a responsibility and accountability. Voters have that too.

So when you champion or defend not voting for the lesser evil in a 2 party system, you are assisting the greater evil. No amount of trying to score morality points will change we have a 2 party system.

So if the greater evil won, and is doing something you don't like, you did indeed contribute to this happening by championing to not participate in the 2 party vote of the lesser evil. Your hands are not clean. These people need to be made aware they assisted in causing the things they are complaining about. Because coddling them yet again that they are innocent while they continuously play the morality card has only yielded us worse results as well.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

There was a recent article that said nearly a third who voted for biden in 2020 but not harris in 2024 did so because of Gaza.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/biden-voters-passed-kamala-harris-because-gaza-new-poll-shows
That is a lot of people

FFTHEWINNER posted...

There was a recent article that said nearly a third who voted for biden in 2020 but not harris in 2024 did so because of Gaza.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/biden-voters-passed-kamala-harris-because-gaza-new-poll-shows
That is a lot of people

Does that also take into account the increased amount of right wingers that showed up in 2024 as opposed to 2020? Genuinely curious.

Garioshi posted...

Do you have no upper limit on the atrocities that can be committed by an administration before criticizing them is acceptable? 50,000 dead is too low, what about 100,000? 500,000? A million? All of them? Would Kamala have to personally construct concentration camps? An entire ethnicity was being wiped off the map and I have to shut my mouth because it would hurt the people committing the genocide? Their campaign is so weak that talking about the things they're doing is enough to sink it?

We fundamentally need a way to constructively criticize the actions of the party without shooting ourselves in the foot. What the uncommitted movement did with meeting with Harris was a good first step, but how/why did communications break down?

Maybe they assumed people who didnt want Gaza to be wiped off the map wouldnt be stupid enough to vote for the guy promising to wipe Gaza off the map

littlebro07 posted...

Maybe they assumed people who didnt want Gaza to be wiped off the map wouldnt be stupid enough to vote for the guy promising to wipe Gaza off the map

You know it was getting wiped off the map already, and Harris said she would not do anything different. So yeah there is that.

littlebro07 posted...

Maybe they assumed people who didnt want Gaza to be wiped off the map wouldnt be stupid enough to vote for the guy promising to wipe Gaza off the map

Have you seen what happened to Gaza during Biden's presidency? With his support.

It looks a lot like it was wiped off the map.

Yeah I get it. They clearly weren't doing enough. But still wild that people chose someone who would continue to not do enough, even make things worse, while also making things far worse here.

Maybe this country deserves to burn to the ground after all.

So were the anti-kamala protestors pivotal and important and lost her the election and got Trump to win

Or did they not matter?

gmanthebest posted...

Didn't Trump say he'd tell Israel to "finish the job" or something similar? Not sure why Harris would need to address Gaza when the opposition was clearly much worse than the (at the time) current administration.

Trump said early on in 2024 he wanted Bibi to finish the job. The problem is, Harris is in office as weapons go to Israel to bomb palestine, so she is directly part of it, even if republicans would do the exact same thing(which is why they cry about how much aid goes to Ukraine but never mention how much goes to Israel). However, people thinking critically knew Trump would likely be worse because of who he is, and statements like him saying he wanted Bibi to finish it, and his Muslim ban in round 1, despite the lack of Harris messaging, and despite how she is in office as bombs get sent by the US and dropped over there, there really is not much excuse to actually think Trump would be better. Then, we get down to how, yes, while I know she hasnt been too receptive on the campaign trail to Gaza issues, in office, she could actually be talked to, possibly. With Trump, well, you're brown, and he's blown off every arab american figure since winning the election, so there is zero chance whatsoever you can protest and talk him down.