I will never understand why people care about seeing a topic get to 500 posts.Eh, I think is similar why people are so eager to tell what kind of tag they used at each other, we just like useless trivia.
It really feels like "nothing else going on in their life" if that's a goal (not saying this is TC's intention.)
I would be careful with this argument.The issue here is too many are blurring lines to argue everything is about hating.
Those loads of things often includes traits that the person finds revolting, awful, or terrible which would be bigoted if connected to gender identity.
The issue here too many are blurring lines to argue everything is about hating.If say you're attracted to women, their gender identity is woman, what is the issue with their gender identity?
Its not bigoted to not be romantically attracted to ones gender identity. You can have whatever gender identity you wish to have, that doesnt mean you should shame a person into being romantically attracted to it. Nor does it mean you wish harm on the person you dont have romantic interest for, or wish they lose basic civil rights.
If say you're attracted to women, their gender identity is woman, what is the issue with their gender identity?I covered this already in an earlier post.
I can't think of immediate deal breakers that aren't "awful traits."
This argument finding ways to shame those who arent romantically open to being interested in trans people is honestly not a far cry from those shaming gay/lesbian people, or "pray the gay away" brigade who think they should be open to converting to hetero or frankly open at all to it.
If say you're attracted to women, their gender identity is woman, what is the issue with their gender identity?
Maybe they dont want their partner to have male parts? I feel like that is bait. Even if they identify one way they still may not be comfortable having sex with a partner that has male sex organs if they identify as a cis straight person.Not all trans women have male parts? You call this bait yet you seem unaware of basic information on trans people.
As a gay person Im not particularly interested in a sexual encounter with someone that has female sex organs, regardless of gender identity and I was married for 13 years, I gave it a really good try.
The only common thing among all trans women is that theyre trans. There is no one set of genitals, one personality, one taste in music, one sense of humor, etc that you can use to describe all trans people. To dismiss them categorically is therefore transphobic.
So what specifically about their transness is offputting if you were otherwise into them before you learned the news and would have remained into them had you not learned?It doesnt matter what ones reasons are.
It doesnt matter what ones reasons are.All of those more of less have a logical flow.
Does a gay man need an explanation if he loses interest in a man he thought was also gay, but turns out he is just flamboyant?
Does a Muslim need an explanation if they lose interest in another person they thought was also Muslim, but turns out they're Buddhist?
Does a woman need to explain herself with a reason you deem valid, if she loses interest in a man shes dating for whatever her reasons she just doesnt find the dude shes dating attractive anymore after some recent event that caused her to lose interest?
The answer is no to all of them, regardless if you find the reason "not enough." No one is owed forever romantic attraction by someone who was initially attracted. Nor should that person be shamed into loving some they lost romantic interest to.
Not all trans women have male parts? You call this bait yet you seem unaware of basic information on trans people.
All of those more of less have a logical flow.I answered the question. The reason doesnt matter. Similar to all 3 examples I gave with the Muslin, Gay Man and Woman. The woman example in particular I purposely I had her reasok be weak and vague, because the point is she shouldnt be shamed into staying romantically attracted to someone she lost attraction to.
But what about a trans person's transness, if you otherwise had no idea and would have liked them still had you not known, changes things?
Answer the question.
Of course I know that.That is what I am asking.
I had misread your post as a hypothetical scenario of someone dating a trans woman, so that was my mistake I guess.
As in, if you were dating a trans woman and your preference was women, and her gender identity was a woman, what would be your issue as a straight cis man?
In my defense I am high, and upon rereading what I originally responded to I dont think that is what you were saying, so my response is kind of nullified.
I hope that makes sense.
The reason exists though.They just don't want to say it because they know what it is.
The reason exists though.The topic asked is it transphobic to not be attracted to trans people. The answer is no. With someone mid way through bringing up initial attraction.... as if one is supposed to be attracted to someone forever and cant possibly lose attraction for even the most mundane things, nevermind what some view as controversial things.
No one is saying you hate trans people. But the reason you wont date them exists. Youre entitled to that reason.This is false. Theres several users just in this topic alone who believe andor argued if you are not open to being romantically attracted to trans people, then you hate them. Its literally what this entire topic is about. With their entire clutch to this argument demanding a sufficient "reason" to justify losing attraction or then implying or else its hatred driving this "reason."
This is false. Theres several users just in this topic alone who believe andor argued if you are not open to being romantically attracted to trans people, then you hate them. Its literally what this entire topic is about. With their entire clutch to this argument demanding a sufficient "reason" to justify losing attraction or then implying or else its hatred driving this "reason."I mean you could just answer the question about what the reason is to clarify, I would be curious what changes when you learn someone is trans.
We even had someone bring up "initial attraction" as if one is owed forever attraction.
Hence my 3 examples post 113 asking she we force the woman, Muslim and gay man to forever love someone they were initially attracted to as well? The answer is no ofc.
Ill be honest, I skipped half this topic so Ill just take your word for it, but youre still pretending that the reason you wont date trans people doesnt exist.Then you should go back and read then as I said the reason doesnt matter. I didnt say or "pretend a reason didnt exist." Date someone whos actually romantically interested in you, not try to shame the people who arent. Romantic attraction is not something people everyone can control.... and its not something boild down to just looks or initial attraction.
That is what I am asking.
If you were dating a woman, and your preference is woman, and she says she is a trans women, what would be the issue?
I'm not saying you have to find all trans people attractive or be interested all trans people, but when someone in the hypothetical scenario was super into someone, and would remain into someone until learning they were not trans and only losing attraction at the knowledge of them being trans, that to me is pretty sus.
What is sus about it? Do you not think that once a person is presented with new information about their partner being a trans woman theyre going to have questions? What if those questions bring up a valid issue and they no longer find themselves compatible with their partner? Are they automatically transphobic?It depends what those valid issues are, which is why I was asking.
It depends what those valid issues are, which is why I was asking.
If the only issue was that they are trans when all else would be fine, then yes, I think they are transphobic.
I think there is some validity to that, but I also dont think that is 100% fair either.Well I am open to discussion, but I would need an actual reason to go off of, and so far none has been provided, and the more defensive people get over it the more I am likely to assume it is transphobia.
Hang on a minute. The problem with saying the reason doesnt matter is that it conveniently sidesteps the whole point people are making, that when you preemptively rule out every person in a group without even knowing them as individuals, youre making a judgment about that group as a group.Its being sidestepped because its doing everything in ones power to argue its about hating ones existence. When it literally doesnt mean that.
And in that sense, yeah... when the only common denominator is this person is trans, its worth examining why thats the disqualifier, because thats where the bias shows up.No.
Well I am open to discussion, but I would need an actual reason to go off of, and so far none has been provided, and the more defensive people get over it the more I am likely to assume it is transphobia.
If someone was like "Well I want to have biological children with my partner" then that is a reason, life goals not matching up.
But I feel for a lot of people it's just some variation of "trans people icky."
So how do you feel about me being gay then? Because to me it feels like I cant win
I came out of the closet because I want to have sex with and date gay cis men
Do gay men have to sleep with trans people or theyre suddenly transphobic assholes or something? I am just so confused. Why dont you tell me what you think I should do here?
Win what?
I do find that slightly odd since most gay men I have met came out of the closet to have sex with and date men but still
Well, what would your reason for not wanting to date a trans man be?
Personally the phrase "I don't date" just sounds rough to me. It also feels "definitive." As mentioned, I identify as heterosexual and I have never been romantically or sexually attracted to the same sex BUT I wouldn't say I "don't date women". I would just say "I have never found a woman I was sexually/romantically interested in."While its definitely fine for you to personally feel its rough, and Im not saying on a personal level you shouldnt feel that way for yourself so you personally word it the way you do.
To me it is weird when someone says "I don't date (blank)." because it doesn't feel, with that wording, the person is simply uninterested but a statement of a hard moral line. Maybe not everyone looks at it/feels that way but to me it comes off like that.
I like being with men, and to me I think of a cis man. I have really romanticized the idea I guess, and my best encounters have been with cis men so I feel like I know that about myself. I have really put thought into what it would be like in every aspect with a trans person and myself in a relationship, and I dont believe the compatibility would be there. I am very open minded though, and I would never say never.
I kind of feel like its similar thinking to me coming up to one of my straight friends and asking him on a date, and then calling him homophobic for not wanting to go on a date.
What would be the issue of compatibility be?
It's not. He is not attracted to men. A trans man is a man though, so I would be curious to know where it becomes an issue.
Thats a little personal, but probably not what youre thinking.
And the sex organs would be a factor for the record, and I already know trans people can have any sex organ. But trans men can also have vaginas, and Im not interested in that.
This topic is always so weird. The same kind of people who'd champion free expression of sexuality get weirdly opinionated and way too nitpicky on this one specific caveat. People should be free to decide the boundaries of their own sexuality, nothing more, nothing less. If someone wants to have an open and free discussion on their sexuality with another person, there may be questions and deeper discussion, but that's not something to broadly apply to everyone.
The topic asked is it transphobic to not be attracted to trans people. The answer is no. With someone mid way through bringing up initial attraction.... as if one is supposed to be attracted to someone forever and cant possibly lose attraction for even the most mundane things, nevermind what some view as controversial things.No. The topic asked, is it transphobic for someone with no posting history to say "I don't date trans people?" To which, I say yes. It's a hard line that doesn't need to be a hard line. And it's especially suspicious when it comes from some random alt. It's the same as saying "I don't date black people" as opposed to "I don't want to date that specific person."
This is false. Theres several users just in this topic alone who believe andor argued if you are not open to being romantically attracted to trans people, then you hate them. Its literally what this entire topic is about. With their entire clutch to this argument demanding a sufficient "reason" to justify losing attraction or then implying or else its hatred driving this "reason."Literally no one has said that. They've said that it makes you sound transphobic. But there's a lot more to the definition of a phobia than hatred. So only focusing on the "hatred" part sounds as disengenuous as the people who used to go "I'm not homophobic, because I'm not afraid of gay people" as if that's the only definition.
If I don't know then it makes it harder to have the discussion but that is up to you.
That's fine then, genital preference is a real thing.
What if they had male sex organs?
I respect that, but it is too personal. Thank you thoughSounds fair then, open to trans men with the sexual organs that match your preference. Doesn't come off as transphobic to me.
With male organs I think things would be better intimately
No. The topic asked, is it transphobic for someone with no posting history to say "I don't date trans people?" To which, I say yes. It's a hard line that doesn't need to be a hard line. And it's especially suspicious when it comes from some random alt. It's the same as saying "I don't date black people" as opposed to "I don't want to date that specific person."I would concede that any topic created randomly to literally only say "I dont date trans people", would be sus.
Literally no one has said that. They've said that it makes you sound transphobic. But there's a lot more to the definition of a phobia than hatred. So only focusing on the "hatred" part sounds as disengenuous as the people who used to go "I'm not homophobic, because I'm not afraid of gay people" as if that's the only definition.All my past posts applies to this as well. Not being romantically open to being attracted to someone doesnt mean you hate them, are afraid of them, think they shouldnt exist, wish for their basic civil right to be removed, etc etc.
I mean I get it but I feel that it closes you off from the potential theoretical "exceptions" that might occur. Dunno, that's just my thoughts. This might be nerdy but I tend to evaluate everything scientifically.
I am heterosexual because I haven't met someone of the same gender I am attracted to romantically/sexually but if I do I would have no issue re-evaluating my sexuality the day it happens.
It works very similar to the scientific principle. I may not put much stock in something that doesn't have evidence to it's existence but I wouldn't resist that very same thing if ample evidence is provided. I would just simply re-evaluate my beliefs. I feel hard stances can really make someone miss out if that exception comes along and I personally would advise someone to be open to those exceptions. I wouldn't want to be that person to miss out of some stubborn self-imposed rules.
Just my 2cents.