From: Rad Link 5 | #363 I don't know because I don't even know where people are supposedly seeing the segment-by-segment ratings of Raw. Also I've heard Orton's ratings are bad as champion, since people find him less interesting when things are going in his favor.
Orton's ratings are bad even when he's not Champion. <_<
Ratings spike for Cena and Divas (and legends), little else. Which is entirely WWE's fault because they can't ask casual viewers who don't watch every segment to get behind guys if they only get pushed for a month or two and then demoted.
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From: Wanglicious | #359 but really you aren't going to get people to watch because of X person who people are only NOW learning about. you need them to have exposure, bring them up, and THEN get them. that's why the older guys get ratings - they're known. by all means, wwe should continue to push punk to the forefront as much as they can because in 1-2 year's time, he'll be ratings.
Again, you're absolutely right, but if all the ex-Creative guys are to be believed, Vince has grown increasingly short-sighted over the years, and if anyone in his ear has an agenda against Punk, they will spin things any way they can to dissuade Vince against pushing him harder.
Keeping him in the middle of the show with no mic time really isn't a great sign to be honest.
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From: Wanglicious | #356 heels can be profitable too. they just need to move their merch along. besides, punk is killing everyone right now, so they can do it if they wanted to. if a heel cena gets them more ppv buys, more people watching, and his sales drop a bit in the process it's worth it because somebody else is filling his merch shoes.
I completely agree, IF you can actually have long-term planning in WWE to really build things properly.
I just hope the Network doesn't scare them away from any major creative changes in the product.
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From: TheRock1525 | #353 Cena won't turn heel until he stops being hugely profitable. I think the flaw is that the WWE is not taking a serious enough approach to building up someone who could push merchandise just as well.
Punk does really good merch sales, but his problem is ratings. It's the same problem that keeps cropping up: the fans who spend money on the product have vastly different tastes than the fans watching at home for free, and Cena is the only one who captures a large segment of both markets.
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From: TheRock1525 | #330 In Miami? I'd be surprised. The only reason I think Cena might win is because Rock has gotten the upper-hand nearly every time.
Cena has to win, because otherwise Rock rides off into the sunset again and then we're left with "Yep, Rock was right, Cena sucks, and now we're stuck with an inferior product."
If Rock was actually COMING BACK then yeah, there'd be places to go with a Rock win, but since he's not, Rock winning clean just buries the Cena era completely before it's even over.
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I'm pretty sure the mask looks the way it does because it's supposed to be burned. If you recall his return promos, he was setting fire to one of his old masks in them.
I'm not saying your criticisms are baseless or anything, but at least there's reasoning behind some of it.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
Heck, Shane Helms is out there right now claiming that he was the #3 merch seller in the early 2000s after Austin and Rock, and he got his start in WCW as a boy band member.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
From: muddersmilk | #285 "I would again encourage you to find me the list of people who shed a gimmick like this and moved on to any serious level of stardom."
I hope this guy's email got flooded with Isaac Yankem, DDS responses.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
From: XIII_rocks | #280 I enjoyed that time the SES counted down Attitude Era moments with disdain, then Austin's music hit and it was just Punk trolling. That was on an anniversary ep, I think.
"You're not funny and nobody likes you."
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
From: Forceful_Dragon | #041 Is it vaguely annoying after we've been spoiled by shows like Community and HIMYM? I suppose. But it's also something that it's much too late to change. You wouldn't hate on an amazing classic movie for being in black and white.
You do realize that HIMYM has a laugh track, right? <_<
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- GoFightLive has added the ROH Tenth Anniversary event on March 4th to their schedule as an iPPV event. The company will now have three iPPV events in March, as they are also running iPPVs on March 30th and 31st from Miami.
Awesome news.
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From the Hall of Fame press release, in case anyone still needed clarification about which Horsemen:
The Four Horsemen, consisting of Ric Flair, Arn Anderson™, Tully Blanchard™, Barry Windham™ and manager J.J. Dillon, were the most dominant group of the National Wrestling Alliance (NWA) in the 1980s, transcending the world of sports entertainment into all avenues of pop culture. This grouping was the first of its kind, paving the way for the likes of the NWO®, Evolution® and DX®. While the Four Horsemen would undergo many transformations over the years, none would ever be as paramount as Flair, Anderson, Blanchard, Windham and Dillon.
...how the heck do they own the trademark on Tully Blanchard's name?
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Oh pish posh, that stuff is fine when there is legitimate reason to celebrate (and 1000 episodes and 20 years are both fine reasons to celebrate yourself).
When it's stuff like The Rock's birthday, I totally agree. <_<
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Yeah, it amazes me that Dolph has been essentially silent for this whole angle.
He's just "there" as the obstacle. I thought MAYBE they were gonna go somewhere with him stealing the actual title belt (sorry Punk), but that never got resolved. Punk just magically had it back the next week IIRC.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
No one ever helped get Triple H over as a main eventer, he did it all by himself! <_<
Only some minor title changes before Wrestlemania 2000. Pete Gas captured the Hardcore Title from Crash in an airport while Crash was at the baggage claim, but Crash then immediately pinned him to win it back.
Essa Rios's reign didn't last long as Dean Malenko defeated him for the Light Heavyweight Title, giving the Radicalz their first WWF gold.
The McMahon-Helmsley Era resulted in another abuse of power, as Stephanie cheated her way to a win over Jacqueline to become Women's Champion. Now husband and wife rule the company both with matching gold!
WWF Champion: Triple H Tag Team: The Dudley Boyz Intercontinental: Kurt Angle European: Kurt Angle Hardcore: Crash Holly Light Heavyweight: Dean Malenko Women's: Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
Watching the Summer of Punk/Dr. Horrible video just reminds me that CM PUNK NEEDS TO CUT MORE PROMOS.
I dunno if silencing the voice of the voiceless is a deliberate attempt to undercut his popularity or not, but his character doesn't work as just some awesome wrestler. He needs to SPEAK. OFTEN.
Also it makes me wish wrestling had the continuity freedom of comics and movies. After Money in the Bank and its mainstream media aftermath, I wish that the next thing seen could be "ONE YEAR LATER..." or something. If there was ever a valid reason to just flat out skip time in kayfabe to effectively advance the story, that might have been it.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
From: Wanglicious | #212 jakyl, are you suggesting that Planet Funk has invented cloning devices. because if so i want AJ and Kaitlyn to go to that planet.
AJ is always hot, but is it me or is she like REALLY hot lately?
Or maybe Daniel Bryan just makes everyone around him sexier? <_<
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From: Wanglicious | #207 in WWE he never was anything impressive. didn't seem to ever really matter, or didn't even look to be that good.
I could direct you to a few matches during his Cruiserweight Title run if you'd like. <_<
He was part of that crazy Yung Dragons vs. Three Count feud in WCW and all of those guys got noticed, and then when he got to WWE he really did stand out as something special and a freaking AMAZING wrestler during his first WWE run.
Once he came back though he was pure lowcard comedy, yeah, except for that Noble/Palumbo/McCool angle which was actually one of WWE's better love triangles.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
There can certainly be Women's World Titles, but they're separate from Men's World Titles, for obvious reasons.
IMO the Knockout's Championship actually IS the most prestigious Women's Title in the world right now. The Divas title is actually newer than the Knockouts Title, and you get more top women wrestlers jumping from WWE to TNA than the other way around.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
And just for the record, I'll re-iterate my personal stance on why I don't consider the ECW Title nor the ROH Title to be World Championships, even if I may casually refer to them as such for ease of conversation.
They are not destination companies for the most sought-after wrestlers in the world.
Given the opportunity to go to WCW or the WWF, no one chose to stay in ECW. Their talent constantly got raided by the two bigger companies, and yes sometimes people would come back, but only when neither of the bigger dogs wanted them. Conversely, talent routinely jumped between the WWF and WCW. They were equals as far as attracting the top talent of the '90s.
Same with ROH. As much as I love the company, no one chooses to be an ROH guy if either TNA or WWE wants them (WGTT might be the sole exception since I can't imagine TNA not wanting them, but even that is just speculation). Every time one of them is given the chance to jump to a bigger company, they take it. Some of the top talent in the world is in ROH, but it is not where they WANT to be if given complete control over their careers. Conversely, TNA and WWE trade talent back and forth. TNA might not be on the same level as WCW, but still some of the world's top talent chooses them over WWE. They actually have wrestlers that WWE wants but cannot get (and vice-versa, obviously). Therefore I can still justify calling their Championship a World Title.
The major Japanese heavyweight titles meet that "top talent" criteria, but not the "defended around the world" criteria that ROH and ECW actually did meet. Plus they don't even call their titles "World Titles" to my knowledge.
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From: edwardsdv | #200 Actually. DO they count Douglas's infamous ECW reign as a world title reign? Do they count his ten seconds as NWA champ as a "world title reign?"
I don't think they do. They (like me) are not of the mindset that "once a title reaches World Title status, it will always be a World Title." They revoked the NWA's World Title status at some point, and they even revoked the WWWF Title's World Title status at some point during Backlund's reign too (but later restored it).
If they didn't consider any ECW Title reigns as World Title reigns prior to the advent of ECW on TNN, I doubt they would have considered any NWA Champion without national exposure as a World Champion. I don't know that for a fact though.
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From: 14_and_counting | #194 PWI considers it a World Title, they are literally the only thing in the world that actually really judges these things. (To me) It is a World title.
While I do value PWI's input on a lot of things, I don't think they override WWE, the OWNERS OF THE LINEAGE, saying "It's not a World Title." Especially when they DO count the WCW Title as a World Title, when mentioning both Show's and Booker's World Title totals.
If PWI suddenly declared the X-Division Title as a World Title, it wouldn't supercede TNA telling us that it isn't one.
Now, it CAN alleviate cross-company stuff. Based on Christian's storyline last year, WWE doesn't consider World Titles in TNA (whether it be the NWA World Title or the TNA World Title) to be World Titles. But they don't own those lineages, and I think in those cases it is clear that Christian's 2 NWA World Title reigns in TNA should be counted as World Title reigns.
They didn't count Booker's TNA Tag Title reign as a World Tag Title reign either when they said how many times he had been a Tag Team Champion in his career. They just don't want to acknowledge TNA at all. <_<
Again, just my opinion.
Also, a clarification: Are we sure that PWI considered the post-revival ECW Title as a World Title? I remember them steadfastedly refusing to grant the ECW Title World Title status in the first place until late in 1999. In their eyes, no ECW Champion was a World Champion until midway through Taz's first reign. I legitimately have no clue as to whether or not that distinction survived the buyout and re-kindling of the title by WWE.
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1.) ECW (post-revival) was never presented as a different company, but rather just a 3rd brand under the WWE banner.
2.) WCW (during the Invasion) WAS presented as a different company entirely, and even for a short while was meant to be distinct from WWE once again eventually.
It's a murky situation, I know, and you're free to have your own definitions.
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From: 14_and_counting | #188 I do, never has been a debate. It sucks that Matt Hardy is a World Champion (Jackson as well) but it is the world we live in.
You give that title more credit than even WWE does!
WWE definitely doesn't count it as one. Last week's Tale of the Tape for Show vs. Bryan listed Show as a 5-time World Champion...which means in their minds, his ECW reign was not one.
Also there were plenty of ex-ECW Champions in Jesse Ventura's match series that was specifically set up to give non-World Champions a chance to be #1 contender (won by Sheamus).
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The WWE version of the ECW Title is in a weird nebulous place between the World Titles and the Secondary Titles. I don't think it has any place in a Modified Triple Crown or Grand Slam, although if Kane or Show (or Punk) completes the cycle and wins every brand-split title PLUS the ECW Title, I think it should be acknowledged as something unique.
A Brand Slam?
But even that, like the Grand Slam, is now a relic that newbies can no longer hope to accomplish.
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From: Rad Link 5 | #178 2) Oh my god is this kid head booker for the WWE? How did he...? Why did he...? When did they...?
This probably took place during the week where Rey vs. Miz was already booked for the title on Raw.
He obviously thought Rey would win (as he should since he's a kid and Miz is poopy). His only real stretch was the idea that Cena would then beat Rey, but hey, predicting that John Cena would get the next title shot isn't a HUGE leap.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg
I just figured out another one. ROB VAN DAM of all people has held 7 different titles in WWE.
I think it's much much easier when discussing Grand Slams/Triple Crowns to just distinguish who has won it under the original definition (with all the original titles) and under a modified definition (including equivalent titles), and UNLIKE Wikipedia I would definitely count the US Title as an IC equivalent for a Modified Grand Slam/Triple Crown.
There is no modern European/Hardcore equivalent though, so anyone who doesn't already have one of those is SOL for a modified Grand Slam.
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