Lurker > HanOfTheNekos

htaeD posted...

Han, why is Red scum? You probably have a post about that somewhere.

I don't really feel that he is Scum. I think you have to light a fire under Red if you want him to contribute to the game before Day 4.

Hb said that somebody claiming miller and getting counterclaimed was spicy. I wish people would stop pretending that isn't a thing.

Secondly, him entering to say it was spicy felt like commentary and that's, in my mind, the thing he looks worst for.

Can I ask everyone around - who DOESN'T want to lynch Sultan and/or Hb?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80157272

If you think that, then can I convince you to vote for Red?

htaeD posted...

I envy your ISOing speed, Han.

it's not like chang posted more than 5 times in topic 1

I've reread topic 1 isoing chang and I still don't really see him as Scum from that. The worst thing he did is ask Kirby to not claim item. Typically Scum are the ones who are more likely to ask for incomplete claims.

In the process I also continued to see that Corrik's play this game has been more talking about DOTA than it has been mafia.

Chang being Scum invalidates his read on Lopen.

I'll do some isoing of chang. I haven't seen him as Scum insofar.

And Death, leave your vote on Red.

Death, vote for Red right now. That's an order.

Quick Lea, push some angles and see who bites back at you.

Kirby321 posted...

I'm disappointed Corrik hasn't said anything yet. I thought I caught him in a pretty significant contradiction, but he's just staying silent.

which thing?

Obellisk posted...

What if Lopen is Roshan and he's just going to project Roshan onto everyone he tries to lynch all game...

I've said something along these very lines.

Ulti is here now to catch up so that's cool. Sultan and Hb have given some on their returns, though not a whole lot. Red has still given very little.

Or... shit.

Ahhh Jaime

Obellisk posted...

So ulti is reserved cause he's town and want to use his item and doesn't want scum to kill him too quickly this game?

is that the theory?

I mean, he's assuredly busy. But it's more weird that he just doesn't seem to have much of a thumb on the game when he does pop in.

Like I said, when he gunned at Kirby for a flavor thing then hopped off, it struck me a little like him thinking he had a good angle to pursue Kirby on, then getting cold feet when he realized it wasn't what he thought it was.

I'm of the mindset that Ulti is the best choice. I don't like it because Ulti has barely been here, but that's where my head is.

Red is good to push around as well, but y'all know I always this by now.

Lopen posted...

I never said Sultan lied about what he thought I said he lied about what he did

Just figured I'd explain why you're using it in jest differently than I would in case you weren't sure

Oh, it's not in jest. At this point, I think it's just clear you're lying when you keep me on your Scumlist.

And you think it's sensible for this same Scumlea to add the "ninja" modifier later on, when that's traditionally also a Scum-only thing?

ctesjbuvf posted...

I felt fine about you, which is better than most. Generally somewhat similar vibes to last game, though you've been around a bit less I believe.

is it better than most?

I've really only seen 4 people say they think I'm Scum and at least one pulled back. Lopen is clearly lying about having thought it.

A handful of other people have said I was Town or Town leaning in that area. And then half the game said nothing.

Ctes, do you really think that a Scum Lea sees a Town Miller claim claiming in post 1 and think "Hmm I'm going to counterclaim that"?

Yeah, that.

Anybody else in here aside from Hb think that I was Town yesterday while Lopen/SBell were going off?

Seanchan posted...

Phase 4 D+ shows > Phase 4 Movies?

Eugh, you can't even say that.

There's a lot of content in Phase 4 and it's all over the spectrum. That's the short of it.

ctesjbuvf posted...

A small pointless takeaway from this game is that I want to host Purple Monkey Dishwasher mafia.

It'd be the only good flavor lately aside from SW&P imo

ctesjbuvf posted...

Think it was mostly not knowing if it was mandatory to use he was confirmed about. He also said he was sure he thought his item was a night action until he was promted to look again. But yeah, whole thing seemed a lot more confusing than it probably was.

Given the way he described his item, it sounded like a night action. And in general, most every role in our meta is assumed to be optional except for SK NK's. Really seems like he had his head on straight and then everyone made it confusing, particularly Corrik, and that the confusion Kirby seemed to have through it pointed at him more likely telling the truth.

Lopen posted...

Han scumbuddy of yore care to elaborate for me on why this situation is different.

Kirby is better than Plum for one.
For two, Plum bought the power in that game.

How many holes did Kirby really have in the way he claimed his role worked?

What are the odds that Sultan is Scum and Scum told Scum Poppy to gun for him out of the gate to look good?

Sure.

Common sense and general experience dictates that people will dedicate more time to the game of Mafia when they are being accused, regardless of alignment.

I read that the same way, Death.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


It seems Scummy to me for Ulti to avoid commenting on that whole debacle.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Did Ulti say anything about Lopen and SBell hounding me yesterday?

Lopen posted...

It's easy to think you're clever without understanding

All I'm saying is that, if you plan to actually care about the "social" side of the social deduction game, then a socially-wise person would know that accusing someone of lying is aggressive. It's not the clever way to pull more information out. It's just throwing punches at that point.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Every time I come back i see lopen being a broken record about me Being a Liar?

For the sake of argument Sultan, why didn't you post anything about the shop after saying you were reading up on it?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I think you've paid better attention than I have:

Ulti in "mislynches Lea to lose the game" mafia, did he have bravado?
Ulti in "chang taunts Lopen" mafia I don't think had bravado at the beginning? But he did at the end.
Ulti in "last game sucked" mafia I think had bravado but then got mad and accepted getting mislynched.

Is Ulti not having bravado in this game an effect of him not rocking any boat? Or is it because he's cowed from the previous game? Do we believe he'd be cowed by that? Or is it that he's just busy enough to not do much more.

If Ulti is busy as f, then in the limited time he is here, would you expect him to do things differently... as either alignment?

Lopen posted...

I cannot believe this is an authentic reaction to what I'm saying.

Sure you can. Why are you lying about this?

Lopen posted...

My issue with Sultan isn't whether he's done the things or not as much as his constant need to announce that he's currently doing the things and then not actually showing any sign he's done them when he says he does.

Then gun at him for that. If you're Town, you'll do that instead of just trying to shut him down by calling him a liar.

If you're Scum, calling him a liar is probably a better strategy, as angering mislynch targets usually works better for Scum (as we recall from Crescent).

"Why lie about it" is the question you have failed to answer, though. What's the point of lying about reading up on the shop? What's the fucking point? There's no good one.

And frankly, the thing that has turned me off about your arguments on him the most this game (which are the same exact things that turned me off about all the arguments about BCT in that other game) is that sometimes it just seems like you're expecting him to be somebody who is NOT Sultan.

Obellisk posted...

He's lying about not taking notes...

Ah, but I wasn't lying.

Lopen posted...

Why say you're looking at the shop and have nothing to say about it

Because you might have nothing to say about it.

Why say you're catching up and say nothing about what you caught up on

Worth asking them to follow up on

Why do an ISO on me then have nothing to say about my posts aside from things related to you and/or are wrong

Why have you posted a bunch of stuff about me this game that is wrong?

Neither the timeline on what he says he's doing (if he was still catching up, why jump to the shop which was the most recent post) nor the follow-up actions line up with what he's claiming he's doing, ergo likely lying.

Or he has nothing to say or he's busy or maybe he's Scum and couldn't figure out a thing to say.

There's room to utilize untruthfulness in making suspicions, but accusing someone of lying about basic actions just disincentivizes people.

Mike's also good for an empty stomach in a pinch.

Obellisk posted...

Don't think that i dont realize this.

Maybe it is Kingmaker... still fairly recent. But we've had games together since then, haven't we Han?

Maybe. None that I was Scum in.

Hey Lopen, stuff like "he's lying about looking at the shop" or "he's lying about catching up" or "he's lying about being busy" is like, lame. Don't do that.

Obellisk posted...

Didn't this JUST happen? What games have we been in together recently. IF i am remembering incorrectly please tell me. I am not attempting to spin a false narrative.

I was just sitting here and I distinctly remember you being scum and me being town and you were trying to buddy up to me in order to convince me you aren't scum or bringing up our history together and how I was totally wrong this go around (even though i was right).

This sounds exactly like how I was describing my thoughts towards Lea earlier this game, which you attacked me on.

Hbthebattle posted...

The main reason you called me scum is that you thought I was sitting on the sidelines and not giving any thoughts worthy of note, and thus was probably scum.

I think something you're missing is I harped big on how I don't think you interacted with Lopen day 1 at ALL, even when he voted you. He's pointing to lack of interactions with you at the moment, but that didn't spell you as Scum that game.

Obellisk posted...

I just want to toss it out on the table that last time I was Town and Han was Scum and I challenged him he gave me a "we dont have to fight, we can be friends" vibe. Same vibe i'm getting this game.

Which game was this?

Chillerang was cool. Scorpion whip was taken. Tie was good. Spider quiver was good. Sleeping gas was useful. Rebreather was useful. Cyanide penny was useful. Manhunter's Mask you took? Baker's Dozen was good. Mines are always good. Spoiler's Mask was taken. Flippers were good. Compact that sees through invisiblity or shapeshifting is good. Fists that increase damage by +3 only 20x is good.

There were a lot of good items there!

(Mike was also good, of course)

htaeD posted...

Setting me aside (because what else can I say to that except lol)
Why is HB town?
You were pretty much on the ball with sudden insights last role madness, so if you are town I do greatly appreciate your opinions.

It's not a strong lean. But post 154 in this topic laid out my thoughts.

Lopen, I know you are saying you think Sultan is Scum, but why did you remove your vote from Hb?

Maniac64 posted...

So what were your thoughts when they chose to take Mike instead of a helpful item?

I imagine Scar would be surprised if they DIDN'T take Mike.

Ermine isn't the hardest person to predict the actions of

So I'm right in that it's not proven that Scum Sultan is hard to lynch!

When I remove players that I have some reason to think are Town, I arrive at this list.

6 - htaeD
13 - red13n
14 - TheSultanOfSlam
15 - UltimaterializerX

I think Sultan is difficult to lynch when he is Town because people are pretty good at reading him as Town, and if he's not seeming too Townlike here, then it might just be because he is Scum, and in this instance, I think the thesis that he is difficult to lynch as Scum doesn't apply, because it is yet to be proven.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


This discussion has reminded me that I'm not convinced on Sultan either. I think people could be onto something with this, and Lopen DID make a good argument on him.