Lurker > Wanglicious

i mean realistically an absolute ban on choke holds doesn't make sense since cops are already allowed to kill under certain circumstances. putting choke holds on a category of guns would be a significant improvement but just not a ban.

if states get funding ideally they'd be able to put their budget to the other areas hurt by corona too. but that's basically a workaround to the fact that states are fucking broke right now.

no knock warrants are shit.
qualified immunity, at the very least, needs massive reform or just be canned. and this is a weird one since technically that should have some bipartisan support. one of the few times Thomas has an opinion i like.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

https://twitter.com/tkag2020_ann/status/1273075677454098436?s=21

cops victim complex is reaching critical levels

man, can't wait to find out what her reaction is to getting 1 less chicken nugget.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

they've already effectively gotten Hong Kong with the political takeover, that also "coincidentally" happened at the same time as we've been protesting. we already said that if they complete the takeover to the final step, we won't acknowledge it separately for tax purposes and the UK said they'd take in 3 mil HK refugees. closest pressure we could do under the circumstances.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Corrik7 posted...

But two Indian security officials familiar with latest developments told The Associated Press that soldiers from the two sides engaged in fistfights and stone-throwing, which led to the casualties. Both said that no shots were fired by either side. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity in keeping with government regulations.

....huh.
20+ dead, 43+ dead/injured by... stone chucking and fisticuffs?
they've either got some of the best stone throwers in the world or something ain't right here.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Corrik7 posted...

It is less of a border war and a Chinese landgrab if it goes to actual war, which it won't. They will ceasefire in a few weeks or so, in my estimate.

hopefully, yeah.
if this was by itself in a vacuum it'd probably end there but if this situation builds on itself at the same time as NK/SK are having their biannual spat on the DMZ and at the same time the West is busy with itself, it's worrisome as there's a limited check.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

did i say 3 indians and 5 chinese dead. apparently that's all outdated.

media reports are saying Indian deaths are 20+ and Chinese deaths/severely injured at 43+. numbers continue to fluctuate and Chinese numbers are more unknown but obviously any increase here for both is pretty dangerous.

edit:
adding in some sources.
Chinese claim is this one:
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1272927922177765376

India being 20+ can be found on a couple Indian journos who work at different outlets. easiest to find was this:
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1272926793889050624

but saw it here first:
https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/1272925361047834624

either way, shit's fucked.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

they're a bit under 2 weeks apart, yeah and you can absolutely draw connections there. it's the other ones that are like... well... suicide is up and it's common. again, 2nd leading cause of death among men of most age groups and in this year who knows if it'll take 1st in some specific demos.

the Houston case was a suicide yesterday that had initial rumors saying he was black, that's wrong. it's been corrected to say hispanic/caucasian sometime yesterday night.
his own family acknowledged he was suicidal today. that one's pretty open-shut.

Manhattan one can use some more info but honestly may be exactly what it is as well. it's all case by case.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

Wait, what?

You know how the deep web works

i do, but i don't see anything to draw the cases together. the SoCal ones at least have proximity of location, time, and one of them has a very political setting. that one might well be at the very least a murder. the other SoCal case, within 1-2 weeks of it, might well be suicide, have the girlfriend lying, or an extremely fast sequence of events. it's weird, more info needed. both are being investigated.

but the Manhattan case doesn't really have anything that strange about it. maybe the direct family will speak up about it in a way that isn't grieving but right now it's kind of being let go as is.

and just checked, the Houston case? a few hours ago there were updates on it. hispanic man with a suicidal past.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

do people actually ever hang themselves from a tree to commit suicide?
It just seems like a bad method since you can hang yourself inside instead if youre into hanging so why take it outside where someone might stop you? If youre gonna do it outside you jump off something

unfortunately yes, it happens. in a city, parks are probably the easiest place to go that's actually somewhat secluded and has good height.

i also don't understand it either as there's far better ways to off yourself and far better places to do it. jumping off things, surprisingly not a common way in the US. it's guns, hanging, and poison (includes stuff like OD'ing on purpose), in that order, for over 90%. guns do make up over half but i don't think i'll understand why hanging is over a quarter considering how many things can go wrong.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

One instance of it happening is suspicious, but no reason to jump to conclusions without a deeper investigation

Five instances of it happening is beyond suspicion and into clear malice

five instances depends on how related they are. you won't find a connection between manhattan and the pair in southern california, those should be unrelated in all ways. maybe the City Hall one is more than the initial report, the circumstances there are definitely more political. the manhattan one not as much; dude was found dead in a park. gotta remember that before the pandemic started suicide was already the 2nd leading cause of death for men in most age groups and that spikes in times of unemployment (almost 16.8% for the black demo, highest since the 80s), and in health crisis (we already know black communities got hit really hard). even the method, hanging, is unusually popular - last year it was 26% of all suicides. ultimately each case has to be examined on its own. i don't know the status of all of them, just that those 3 are suicides officially right now, with feds getting involved for the SoCal ones.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i see your reading comprehension is as shit as ever.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

hangings are weird.
entirely possible it's lynching but a lynching in manhattan seems a bit off to put it mildly, especially when we're in the middle of a pandemic and depression, meaning suicide rates should be significantly up. at the same time, why that method of all of them? get it wrong and you're alive after a lot of pain or are dying a really slow, painful death. and there's no way you don't know what the implication is in the overall environment. potentially is a figurative statement, that they weren't actually lynched but felt like they were.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

ninkendo posted...

Blow them both up

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Seanchan posted...

Any links to the news for this? Much as you've implied, I've not heard anything about this.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-india-china/india-says-officer-two-soldiers-killed-in-violent-faceoff-on-border-with-china-idUKKBN23N0ZD

the 5 chinese dead is a bit harder to find, probably because it's china. but there's some reporting on it, like here:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/news/five-chinese-soldiers-killed-in-lac-faceoff-reports/videoshow/76404289.cms

HashtagSEP posted...

which very much implies you instantly, 100% bought the intentionally part.

except you aren't going to know intent right off the bat.
like you're saying that i'm the guy always saying wait for the facts while at the same time saying that i'm gonna forget about that on the biggest unclear issue at the start of a crime, intent. meaning i either messed up (fair assumption) or that you're reading me wrong (actual case).

Jakyl25 posted...

We are at the point unambiguously implies that you are presenting this as a deliberate escalation of the tensions between the public and the police

well yeah, as that's how it's presented by them. claim is believable and made its rounds quite a bit. now we're in the part where you've got the basic facts as true but also the intent as false, making nobody look good. shake shack is going with incompetence, i'm sure various NYPD members going with malice due to the timing, even if the official take by them is also incompetence. not fake news or a hoax but also not accurate.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

uhh....
India and China are nuclear powers with over a billion people and make up a massive amount of the world's manufacturing of literally everything.

it's the entire world's business if the two go to war and they're already at the stage where they're having armed conflicts resulting in deaths. it then becomes a WW3 problem since India's allies will include various European countries, Japan, and the US. technically Russia too but they play to both.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

also, while completely unrelated to this subject uh...

the rest of the world is still moving and a lot of media isn't focusing on stories that are way, way, way more important than our domestic issues.

we currently have a major world war 3 situation happening.
China and India have been fighting over the border for the past few weeks now. not sure that's been mentioned in this topic, it just so happened to occur shortly after everyone got obsessed on the Floyd murder. yesterday this escalated to violent conflict that killed at least 3 Indians and 5 Chinese. meaning, they're getting really close to war.

that's separate from North Korea's antics with the demilitarized zone and seeming to want to start a fight again. while not that unusual out of NK, the timing is a major issue due to China/India as that means we've got two major events happening at the same time with potential for war, in a similar region, at a time when the western world is busy with its internal affairs.

and that all happened on the halfway point of 2020.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Inviso posted...

You shared the post. You made it clear what the implication was behind sharing that post and the wording you used to share it. Don't be a coward if you're not going to stand behind the words you used.

i'm sticking behind the words i used.
i'm not sticking behind the words you made up.

Jakyl25 posted...

Simple question:
Did you take the statement you shared at its word when you shared it

depends on which part.
that they were poisoned, sure. i'll take that at its word because it's a severe enough claim that can be easily verified by media/investigators that it'd be a massive error. if that part were to be faked that'd be a major story in and of itself.

the intent, not so much. it's either really inconvenient timing or on purpose, one of those two. either way, intent ain't gonna be known immediately but of course the union's gonna go that way. and it of course will become national news and way more important than, say, a cup. your options are either attempted murder or massive negligence to the point of a crime, either way someone fucked up pretty badly at that shake shack.

the rest of the flavor text, nah. that's just rhetoric.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

...by debunked you mean still confirmed they got poisoned due to Shake Shack right.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/16/nypd-finds-no-criminality-by-shake-shack-workers-in-case-of-sickened-cops/

After a thorough investigation by the NYPDs Manhattan South investigators, it has been determined that there was no criminality by shake shacks employees, Chief of Detectives Rodney Harrison said in a tweet early Tuesday.

Police sources said the case has been deemed unintentional after it appeared that whatever cleaning solution was used on the shake machine wasnt rinsed off enough.

gotta keep in mind the wording used. it wasn't denying the facts, it was saying there's no criminality, which doesn't mean that what happened didn't happen, just that it's not intentional. like you do realize the biggest difference between something like, say, writing pig on a cup and people literally go to the hospital is that the latter's a much more serious accusation which would need an actual record to it, right? that you can't just randomly say that one and have a he-says/she-says moment? it's effectively being accused of attempted murder, they'd straight up be opening themselves to an easy libel suit if the basic facts were made up.

MrGreenonion posted...

All you had to do to not show yourself to be a credulous bootlicker was withhold an opinion for 5 hours and 17 minutes in the middle of the night

1) since when is 11 the middle of the night
2) life comes at you fast etc, ya could've waited another 2-3 hours to have it clear that it's not a hoax or fake that they got poisoned. the main thing that's been rebutted is the claim of intent.

if the story does escalate further in either direction it'll be known pretty quick.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

uhhh....

https://twitter.com/NYCPDDEA/status/1272721892131188743

we are at the point where people working at shake shack are literally poisoning cops.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

if the slogan went from defund the police to eliminating traffic violations, you'd go from 16% support to 61% support in no time flat.

even if the goal ultimately wouldn't be all of them being removed, a significant reduction there would be greatly welcomed to drivers.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

why would we want to ban self driving cars.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Corrik7 posted...

You actually probably won't get out of it.

I know a dude who got a DUI sleeping in his turned off car with his keys in the back seat in his own driveway. Lol. And it stuck. He spent a lot of money fighting that to lose.

It's debatable if the sticking your keys in your gas cap helps your case. Our one instructor who did classes said he has seen tens of thousands of people over the years for DUIs. Says he has seen it all. People getting DUIs for sleeping in vehicle with keys thrown outside the vehicle. Sleeping in back seat with keys in has cap. People already out of their vehicle and walking into their house.

Idk if I believed all his stuff he said, but I do know getting caught sleeping in a vehicle while drunk is gonna net you a DUI almost all the time unless you got lucky with a cop.

that's some serious bullshit of government just looking for a paycheck. if you aren't driving under the influence and are not at any risk to drive then wtf. like do you need to have a breath test to operate your machine in there to get away with that? just a dumb policy.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

you'd totally get charged with one, yeah. could probably get out of it with proper recordings of what's going on but if you lack that, expect it. that just says more of our fucked up system than not. if you're in the car and NOT operating it, you shouldn't be getting anything, that way drivers won't have to choose between a higher chance of being caught vs. a greater chance of a car accident. so that's one reform to be agreed on.

and the fact that he's not doing it now and identifies the problems of it does say he learned. he just didn't learn immediately, didn't learn at the time. which... is honestly common for this sort of thing, DUI or no. like say he had gotten away with it without ever getting a DUI - that doesn't make anything better. the DUI is immaterial to the argument of drunk driving.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

People in here really stanning for prison time in the case of multiple DUIs

We need FEWER people in prison, not more

Prisons are bad

agreed on this.
the goal is rehabilitation, not punishment.
now there's some cases i can totally understand punishment as the priority for and some cases where i can't disagree with a bullet to the back of the head being the best resolution. but as a general principle if you can establish methods for rehab, you take it.

and DYL - yeah, the rich get away with more. but the issue isn't that you get away with more, it's that you're disproportionately hurting them more. you want to talk drug crime, sure: yes the rich got away with more and you know who got hurt more with multiple offenses? poor people, usually minorities. it's a failed policy structure that only hurts people, especially the ones it's trying to help. DUIs would fall under the same category here as it's the working, lower, and middle class that needs to drive the most. you would be inflicting punishment on people who need those cars to live and a flippant "oh well, should've thought of that first!" is the same argument that got us to shitty policies in the first place in a variety of other fields. it is not focusing on the underlying aspects of why someone would do this, it is not focusing on trying to minimize it, it is simply being punitive after the fact as opposed to trying to prevent it from occurring in the first place. prevent the drunk driving, foster a situation where even in more suburban areas it's clear that this is desirable, work on addiction treatment, etc. but don't create more criminals out of policy, that's absolutely the wrong direction to go.

xp1337 posted...

GOP Senate is ruling out ending qualified immunity and going as far as calling it a "poison pill."

unsurprising.
that's definitely a state level measure that needs to happen.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

iiaattgg posted...

Now there is a major difference between the college kid who thinks he is invincible and just thinks hes going to make it home no prob and kills someone, versus the person who is gripped by addiction and cant stop without a massive external intervention. I dont have any respect for the former. The latter is harmful to society, but its more pity that i feel than disdain

whoops, should've included addiction too. that's definitely an issue. i wouldn't assume this addiction is to alcohol either, there's a certain dopamine hit you get from socializing with people and if it's going to be at a bar then your addiction is just to social drinking, to being around people in that environment, etc. that'll cross over multiple fields (e.g., culture of meeting this way while driving, emotional reasoning of "I want to be there," addiction to the environment).

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

the guns vs car thing can sorta help understand why there's reform needed. guns are constitutionally protected, cars aren't. but people outside cities with major transportation can live without a gun in most professions, they can't live without a car. a car is a bigger necessity but it's easier to take your right away from using it. as a result people will be faced with either driving without a license or being unemployed, which will end up meaning more crime. this disproportionately hurts the lower and working classes far more so it's totally the wrong direction to go in. you should want a different punishment than outright removal.

corrik mentioned that tech is catching up at least, with DUIs resulting in car modifications that force you to breath into it before working. that's a good middle ground to work with, basically forcing you to be sober while also allowing you to drive. that hurts the fewest people there.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

there's a lot to deter you from driving drunk. you need a car, it's against the law, you don't want to literally kill people, you don't want to die, if you're going to a bar to socialize then you want to keep socializing with them another day, etc.

but people do it anyway, fully aware that it's wrong. even in NYC you'll find a lot of that type in bars despite the fact that there are car services you can use. in a more rural or suburban spot where that doesn't exist, i imagine that'd be the norm. rural more so since there's a certain point where it's like you've got dozens of miles of empty road.

tried to figure it out over the years and ended up coming to the conclusion that if you try to think of it logically you aren't going to get anywhere. it's clearly wrong, it's logically a horrible idea, so if you still do it anyway it's going to be a mix of 1) culture, 2) stupidity (especially for younger people, invincibility aura's a thing), 3) emotional reasoning.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

not sure why you keep spouting this bullshit rhetoric. actually, i'm not sure why you're commenting at all, since you admitted that you only "glanced" at the argument in the previous topic.

uhhh it's half the topic dude.
and surprise, i read the topic more in between the time i said that and this because i was tired of seeing that be the entire subject matter while still escalating somehow.

and this ain't the first time the topic got brought up and yes, it does seemingly get brought up randomly or through the loosest of tangents. usually it goes away again in a few but this time around it stuck for the rest of the topic and into this one, escalating the whole way because people don't seem to know his actual position but are perfectly fine assuming they do or gaslight him in jest.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

taking just some stuff said in this topic, from the first page...

• he's right when he says bars don't really care.
• there are plenty of bars that are just drive in only essentially. no other transport, including car services, are readily available.
• he agrees that it's wrong.

...so is the issue just "why go to a bar at all?" after that?
as this seems to be admission that it's morally wrong to do but also explaining why it happens. that yes it's a shitty thing to do but people do it because ___.

checking the last topic...

• losing your license for a DUI is a flawed system. (true)
• ...sniping drivers. (...seriously dude, you're the right winger in a part of PA that likes guns, don't make everyone else look like they've got a better knowledge of firearms than you on this.)

seem to be the general positions through all the crap in there putting bets on him killing people, wanting him shot, etc. some of the arguments against him don't make any sense at all from a practical view either, so many insist on removing a license for a DUI while ignoring the reality that a significant amount of the country needs a car for a living. something that would affect the poor far more, which he brings up. Jakyl and Hero were the only two that addressed that. there's not a lot wrong being said here. yeah the sniping stuff is dumb and sure if you're trying to correlate his stance with the recent Atlanta shooting you can draw some parallels, but if you don't even represent his position properly to begin with anything you draw is gonna be a mess.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Corrik7 posted...

The problem I always had with singling out texters is that really it is any distracted drivers cause wrecks. Which encompasses such a huge swath of things.

I mean, some states now cite you if you look at your GPS on your phone when driving. It's hard to draw the exact line in my opinion on it.

Distracted drivers period are an issue though.

GPS should be fine.
the line should just be if you're doing something on your phone that demands your visual attention and isn't directly related to the driving.

StealThisSheen posted...

It's not something to just handwave as a "shitty thing to do."

it's not handwaving to call it a shitty thing to do, it's being realistic that humans are complicated.

you can be a good person and still do shitty things. if you talk about a person then you're talking about their character, their being, in total. that is separate from an action they have committed. there is a certain point where a pattern of behavior will reflect on an individual but where that line is will vary based on the offense, the scale, and the rationale.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

If literally everyone here except red and maybe Wang is fully aware of the fact that Corrik is a worthless piece of shit, why are we still talking at him?

some of you guys ain't ones to talk on this.
We literally just spent half the last topic on a subject brought up to troll him and then, somehow, progressed seemingly nowhere in the argument. maybe it's just him being stubborn. but i'm gonna go on a limb and also include that some people arguing in this dozen to one spat aren't doing it in "good faith" as it's often said around here, they just don't like him and just want to flame and troll him before preening around acting superior. there is zero intent to argue, just more intent to add to the noise. if half a topic gets spent and there's little to no progress, something is clearly wrong with the conversation you're having. at best it means you're talking around each other and gotta clarify some basics. at worst, you're being a bunch of dicks. don't know where you fall. but that's basically the dumpster fire the last topic was.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

oh he'll totally troll and flame back. there is that, somewhere in the like 10 to 1 "argument."

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

...i'm also honestly surprised you guys are still arguing the DUI stuff. my eyes just gloss over it entirely because far as i can tell like 80% of it is trolling/flaming Corrik, 10% is his response that seems to go all over the place, 5% is actual discussion, and 5% is wondering wtf you all are you doing. besides trolling him, anyway. because that's blatantly the biggest takeaway in all this, y'all have been doing that shit since what, page 2 or 3? again?

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

definitely. like i get the idea of "it's the culture war!" as essentially an exaggerated oversimplification of things but if you're gonna actually take it literally and start treating it like war then the entire purpose of war is domination, by any means necessary. including, and especially, death and killing.

what a great attitude for a topic whose purpose is to contain political discussion.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

...alternatively just discuss stuff in a discussion topic and if you don't want to, don't.
and fuck any "war" rhetoric here, that just polarizes sides even further to push people even more in their camp. there's no reconciliation in a war, it's explicitly only one side dominating the other. no conversation, no discussion, apart from submission. that's just radicalization in a nutshell.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

oh, we're going back to the old standard that's essentially arm's length?


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

oh totally. weather is good and after the protests it's impossible to say in good faith "hey guys, maintain 6 feet" like before. the main thing i've seen are people eating outside, restaurants with outside areas are common here. said outside area is usually a few feet in front of the place on the sidewalk, which was always fine. cocktails to go being drank are probably the open container law stuff but both rules were always stupid ones nobody likes and should be kicked off the books.

and revenge calls/claims are definitely something people do. people are petty enough to do it. in some cases there isn't much of a violation occurring either - the functional difference between meeting up with friends as opposed to meeting up with friends in a bar is zero for guidelines. you're allowed to be in groups of 10 for any lawful reason here. bars and restaurants can't enforce a lack of social distancing there because there's already a purposeful lack happening in social gatherings like this.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

open container law is complete nonsense and always was. that shit should go away too.
and that's a lot of karens.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

something to pay attention in all this is the business side of things.
i didn't see it talked about a lot but decided to check how AMC was doing. they released their Q1 data just a few days ago.

revenue for Q1 was <$1 billion and they've a net loss of $2.2 billion.

they say they want to open all theaters in July but 1) that depends on the state (won't for NY) and 2) even if they do manage to open people just won't go to it that quickly. 3) nobody knows what condition the theaters will be in considering how much debt is being taken on. Q2, April - June, is going to have a revenue closer than not to $0. you are looking at billions upon billions in debt. if they manage to survive the only good news is they won't need to pay taxes for a while with this kind of situation.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

honestly i'd say the biggest issue to that is the classification tasers have. they get called non-lethal because they aren't necessarily lethal like a gun is. when you fire a gun you intend to kill and there's a good chance it can and will kill. at the very least, it will cause severe harm to an individual. tasers are, generally speaking, safe. compared to a gun, far, far safer. with that said, it doesn't take much thought to realize that if this is a weapon meant to disable it's also a weapon that can kill. it is impossible to find a middle ground. if you weaken its ability to kill you will also weaken its ability to disable, and then you'll see cases like the rioter at CNN who laughed off getting hit with two tasers. or if you wanna go a few years back to another death by cop, Eric Gardner, who also tanked a couple tasers to no effect. incidents like that just further the misconception of these weapons' lethality.

but figured lemme shelve my general opinion/thoughts and decided to check for recent info on it. turns out Reuters ran a 5 part series on 'em in 2019. here's one section:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-taser-deaths-insight/as-death-toll-keeps-rising-u-s-communities-start-rethinking-taser-use-idUSKCN1PT0YT

that's a really long and really in depth article that i won't get fully into, read if interested, don't if not. there's a few key takeaways though, including the fact that PDs know that it's not really a non-lethal weapon. they know it can kill, they know of the underlying aspects that can result in deaths, they're aware that there's a notable lack of training on their usage, that there's a mistaken belief of how often it should be used even within the PD, and the usage of tasers is something that should be re-considered. some PDs have done that even by the time of the article, others were working on it.

this info would be something that, despite being public, isn't that well known by the public. and yeah, it mentions 1001 deaths by tasers. this isn't a lot, especially over the time period, but i'm not sure if this covers every PD they got info for, what PDs those were, or how long exactly. but figure it opens up with saying there's some 50~ deaths a year on it based on their info, which, alright. safer than guns, sure. still lethal, sure. but was still bothered by this. common sense says shoot an electric current in a person and it can kill them. easy, right? don't stick a fork in a socket, etc? so why do we consider them non lethal here, exactly?

unfortunately here's where it gets darker, found this interview: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/police-killed-1000-people-tasers-since-2000

and this quote really stuck out.

And Taser says that these weapons have been studied, and that they're overwhelmingly safe. Taser's position is that the risks to the heart are more theoretical. The company does not concede that there has ever been a death direct a cardiac-related death directly attributable to a taser.

in other words: propaganda.
TASER is a company.
they have spent literally decades in saying this is non lethal.
everyone has heard this being called non lethal and immediately compares it to firearms. compared to a gun sure, it's non lethal, but that's just sleight of hand.

so that's a nice piece of propaganda we've all fallen for at some point or another. law enforcement and security likely know already and design revisions are frequently with TASER/Axon (the company's current name) talking about how it can deliver a strong current but not a lethal one even better than before and they acknowledge that today's are safer than previous years were. so uh... they know. so if that cop runs with the defense "if he shoots me with that, he can kill me," he's got a decent amount of evidence to agree with him.

the problem is the taser and potentially the way PDs have trained the usage/security of it.
also if you were interested in one, miiight be a good idea to get one sooner than later. they ain't particularly well regulated but if you get a series of events involving them, people will turn their heads and start asking questions that have already been answered and are just being ignored.

xp1337 posted...

I think there's three different arguments here: "Was this a legal response by the officer?", "Was this the right response by the officer?", and "Should we support a framework in which 'legal' and 'right' are distinct qualities here and if so to what extent?"

this is a good breakdown of the situation. nicely done.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

StealThisSheen posted...

I don't know, I'm not the one that fired him.

Clearly they either think he actually did something wrong, or did something they don't think they can actually defend, since they fired him. So clearly he did his job incorrectly enough to warrant it in their eyes.

alternatively they just fired him because it's easier to avoid in this controversy.
i do expect him/the union to go take it to the courts, where he'd probably get a good settlement out of the city. aka, they're gonna pay him to go away. it's a political firing.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

Your moral code seems to say that if there is no defined obligation for an entity to do something, you cant fairly say they did something unethical if they fail to act.

that's a confusing oversimplification that's not entirely true, not particularly relevant, and purposefully broadens the subject when it's rather specific. just taking your words here and expanding on them, the moral code being described here is...

Entity 1 has X/Y/Z obligations defined.
they "fail to act" on something that isn't defined in X/Y/Z.
they can't fairly be accused of being unethical for said failure.

if we're talking business, that's usually accurate as ethics aren't just a moral code but specific rules laid out. if we're using ethics as another word for moral, it becomes more questionable. a company may not violate any of its ethical policies but still violate the ethical standards of those outside. so we've gotta be clear on which definition we're using here as both may lead to different conclusions.

but this doesn't really have anything to do with the case here. the basic facts:
people burnt down a Wendy's
people who worked there are now out of a job

you're the one making the proposition that it is their ethical obligation to pay those workers anyway and fuck 'em if they don't.

from a business ethics stance, that's totally wrong. they offered specific services for money. no more services, no more money. it's that straightforward.

from a moral perspective, there is no obligation to continue paying you for services that cannot be rendered. however, due to the unfair circumstances, should there be a way to pay them for other services, that ought to be looked into. if there isn't, then that should be the end of it as at that point you're just asking someone be given money for nothing, which is just an undue burden on that party, which will usually be unethical. though i don't really go that far as i just leave it at undue burden is enough reason to dismiss.

those two views will overlap heavily here. you're the one having to make up some other external, moral obligation for a company to pay in the event of arson. not even an act of god, but act of individual people purposefully burning down a place. you actually have people responsible for this situation and are still saying the company has a moral duty.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

worth noting is that P4G on Steam has Denuvo as its DRM.
why, nobody knows.

it just does.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

Ill bite. Why not?

other way around. why would it?
terms of a job are simple, i pay you for your labor. your labor disappears, you don't get paid. that can be in the form of quitting, firing, or the job disappearing. arson would count for that last one.

you're the one asking to change the rule and making it flowery by saying it's "ethical" to do something when there's no rules of business or moral aspect to this. your place of employment is gone. you do not have a place to work at anymore as the location got literally fired. it would be good policy to see if there are other places that they can work at, other job opportunities available inside the company, but if there aren't, well, you're out. asking for more than that is placing an undue burden on the business. there's no aspect of morality in this demanding you to continue being paid while doing nothing. they do not have an obligation to you, they have an obligation to your services. if that's completed, so too is your pay.

if anybody has an ethical obligation for those salaries, it's the people who burned down the wendy's. by all means, they ought to pay for damages and for people's livelihood. ...and if you can't find who they are then that's where the fuckery starts since it's going to go to the closest scapegoat that would include them: the neighborhood. in which case, now the people living in that area need to pay for their own repairs because some from it decided to do arson.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

third time's the charm!


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

yep. articles, pictures, reliable testimony, video, it's all there. it's legit. they are using already grown plants, not seeds. they did not layer it multiple times over, you can visibly see the paper in some pics. they are trying to grow a garden, in a park, in the summer.

oh yeah, even if they, through some miracle, grow something edible out of it, their efforts are quite useless because the amount of food is next to nothing relative to what a person needs. they're expending more energy than the food they grow can possibly provide.

it is the greatest LARP.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i mean some people in the CHAZ are trying to start up a garden in a park.
they put the paper down, some soil, grabbed some grown plants, and put 'em in.

they have absolutely no idea what they're doing. unfortunately while i'm amused by the joke of a situation, it's affecting the rest of Seattle as police response time is dramatically up thanks to not having access to the station. still, give it a full week and things will be in a situation that demands cops.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

elmo's dad is a deadbeat.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

honestly he shouldn't need to do that. if you make the topic, don't block.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

was wondering why a new topic sprung up so early.
if you're making the politics topics you shouldn't be blocking people like that.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

corrik is a democrat now. this is all clearly part of his new transformation.
give him a year and he'll be in love with AOC.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1270507442074460161?s=21

if wang ever says tucker Carlson is good again im just going to post this tweet a dozen times

fuck elmo's dad.
he's been missing for like 40 years.

nobody should take advice from that deadbeat!

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.