Current Events > If Bernie were President, would he be polling better now?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bernie would be for Palestine I'm sure.

I probably should've included a "no, since he'd get nothing done" option, oh well.

Justin2Krelian posted...

no, since he'd get nothing done

This is my stance

If Bernie wins the Dems likely don't win the Georgia run-offs, he has a garbage relationship with the rest of the party so trying to get anything done with the Democratic house margin being so slim and McConnell gumming up the senate means any legislative policy is DOA

As for any executive actions? You saw what the Supreme Court did to Biden's student loan forgiveness, you can bet they'd be equally as vindictive and terrible towards any of Bernie's EOs.

He probably still gets a boost when the Dobbs decision comes through, but who knows if Democrats will be in a position to take advantage of it in the midterms the way they did in OTL.

I think he polls the same as Biden or worse.

He'd be polling at 100% because he'd be a communist dictator!!!

Higher, and for a specific reason.

Biden's initially high favorability was composed in part by moderates. Moderates are notoriously easy to lose. And Biden lost them when his withdrawal from Afghanistan boosted the Taliban. Then he lost progressives with his Israel policy.

Bernie's supporters weren't the type to concern themselves with world policing to begin with, so the complaining would mostly come from people who were never supporting him at all. His initial favorability would remain.

100% due to the fact that Bernie comes across more coherent. Claiming policy as a reason is giving too much credit to the average American voter.

SecretBase posted...

Higher, and for a specific reason.

Biden's initially high favorability was composed in part by moderates. Moderates are notoriously easy to lose. And Biden lost them when his withdrawal from Afghanistan boosted the Taliban. Then he lost progressives with his Israel policy.

Bernie's supporters weren't the type to concern themselves with world policing to begin with, so the complaining would mostly come from people who were never supporting him at all. His initial favorability would remain.

So in this hypothetical world, Bernie has a strong backing by people who are firmly left in the country, while alienating moderates to the point they can't be won back, thus guaranteeing a Republican win next time over?

But yeah, if you're asking me straight up, it's really hard to hypothesize what chain of events would have taken place. My inclination, though, is to think that Bernie is at no better a standpoint, and very likely a worse one due to his inability to work with a divided government, as compared to the situation we have currently. The only benefit is that maybe concern trolls don't have as much fodder to work with in dividing the left, though they would instead be hammering moderates over the head with Bernie's agenda of turning us into a socialist country or whatever.

Too bad I can't vote in this poll though because both "no" options are very inadequate at recognizing any of this.

SecretBase posted...

Moderates are notoriously easy to lose.

And Bernie keeps them?
SecretBase posted...

His initial favorability would remain.

His initial favorability would be much lower than Biden's, though.

Justin2Krelian posted...

I probably should've included a "no, since he'd get nothing done" option, oh well.

What are you basing this on?

It's the current establishment democratic party leadership that gets so little done and keeps losing ground when the republican party is imploding and can't stop shooting itself in the feet.

You'd actually be surprised at what a populist can do when they hold the presidential microphone AKA "The Bully Pulpit"...Look at how Donald Trump can get the entire conservative media and republican party infrastructure to focus on the issues he wants. Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders... it doesn't matter who has the office, they are in a position to elevate and act on key issues.

Imagine if he became president instead of Trump. The middle class would have better tax breaks and the 1% would actually be paying their fair share.

Instead we're paying for the billionaire tax breaks.

LoZguy709 posted...

Bernie is at no better a standpoint, and very likely a worse one due to his inability to work with a divided government

Where does analysis like this come from?

I've heard some Hillary and Democratic party shills on corporate news say that, but what does this actually MEAN!

For what reasons, and as opposed to what current standard is Bernie Sanders unable to "work with a divided government"? Because I got news for you folks... Joe Biden, the most centrist of the centrists sucked at "working with a divided government" so did Obama.

I need someone to explain in detail, using specific issues or circumstances, why Bernie would be even worse at "working with a divided government".

Torgo posted...

What are you basing this on?

It's the current establishment democratic party leadership that gets so little done and keeps losing ground when the republican party is imploding and can't stop shooting itself in the feet.

You'd actually be surprised at what a populist can do when they hold the presidential microphone AKA "The Bully Pulpit"...Look at how Donald Trump can get the entire conservative media and republican party infrastructure to focus on the issues he wants. Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders... it doesn't matter who has the office, they are in a position to elevate and act on key issues.

Wow.... So much over-simplifying in just a couple sentences. You're acting like Biden had a strong Democratic house and senate, thus NOT having to go through tireless negotiations to pass the Inflation Reduction Act, without a strongly conservative-biased Supreme Court. Whatever fantasy world you're living in does not recognize the real-world constraints going on in this country politically.

Torgo posted...

Where does analysis like this come from?

I've heard some Hillary and Democratic party shills on corporate news say that, but what does this actually MEAN!

For what reasons, and as opposed to what current standard is Bernie Sanders unable to "work with a divided government"? Because I got news for you folks... Joe Biden, the most centrist of the centrists sucked at "working with a divided government" so did Obama.

I need someone to explain in detail, using specific issues or circumstances, why Bernie would be even worse at "working with a divided government".

Wasn't even expecting you to post something asking for the very explanation I just gave. You really need to educate yourself on how the US government works before going on more blatantly uninformed diatribes.

No, he'd be polling worse given that he would've promised way more than Biden did and delivered way less given how divided congress is and how conservative the judiciary is.

Not to mention that loads and loads and loads of moderate Dems were already looking to idiotically jump ship, so you'd better believe that a third party offshoot would've emerged siphoning at least a third of the Dem base away from him and barely denting GOP numbers.

Justin2Krelian posted...

I probably should've included a "no, since he'd get nothing done" option, oh well.

Still missing the "No" option I want. That it'd be like any other democrat. He'd be fixing shit, things would be going well, he would be polling poorly because the media and republicans would be lying about everything. He would still be supporting Israel though, like every other president, which apparently makes people want Trump - who also supports Israel - to win, or something.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Like I said.

Heineken14 posted...

lying about everything.

LoZguy709 posted...

So in this hypothetical world, Bernie has a strong backing by people who are firmly left in the country, while alienating moderates to the point they can't be won back, thus guaranteeing a Republican win next time over?

Bernie's numbers would still outline his doom, yeah. The whole argument for Dems winning 2024 at all relies on Biden's polls just being inaccurate. If his numbers are real and stick then it's already over.

I just argue that they'd be higher since he'd have bled less of his original electorate.

LoZguy709 posted...

My inclination, though, is to think that Bernie is at no better a standpoint, and very likely a worse one due to his inability to work with a divided government, as compared to the situation we have currently.

Good point. But the only legislation that actually boosted Biden's numbers was the American Rescue Plan, which was emergency legislation that probably would've passed no matter what.

The possibility that Bernie just wouldn't have flipped Georgia, and therefore would've lacked any aligned Congress to get things done with, was raised, and it's plausible. But I'm reluctant to assume it since both Warnock and Ossoff won their run-off races even without Biden on the ballot to help them. Georgia seemed just about done with MAGA candidates period.

Doom_Art posted...

And Bernie keeps them?

He never had them lol. His support was composed by other types of voters. (some Dems, progressives, populists, etc.)

Doom_Art posted...

His initial favorability would be much lower than Biden's, though.

It statistically was not, though. Biden's peak 2020 primary period favorability was 46% while Bernie's peak 2020 primary period favorability was 47%, virtually the same. Biden shot way up to 50% in the months after Bernie dropped out but that's when he was the only option left against Trump.

Torgo posted...

You'd actually be surprised at what a populist can do when they hold the presidential microphone AKA "The Bully Pulpit"...Look at how Donald Trump can get the entire conservative media and republican party infrastructure to focus on the issues he wants. Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders... it doesn't matter who has the office, they are in a position to elevate and act on key issues.

Whoa, Donald Trump must have had a lot of great conservative legislation passed while he was president! The wall is like 3000 miles, right?

K181 posted...

No, he'd be polling worse given that he would've promised way more than Biden did and delivered way less given how divided congress is and how conservative the judiciary is.

Not to mention that loads and loads and loads of moderate Dems were already looking to idiotically jump ship, so you'd better believe that a third party offshoot would've emerged siphoning at least a third of the Dem base away from him and barely denting GOP numbers.

Yeah, this. If the president was a less popular (he got fewer votes) and less able president (and judging by how fucking crazy all of Bernie's campaign people are, I don't think he would have been able to navigate the senate to get even the few bills Dems have passed), would he be more or less popular? Obviously, less popular.

SecretBase posted...

Higher, and for a specific reason.

Biden's initially high favorability was composed in part by moderates. Moderates are notoriously easy to lose. And Biden lost them when his withdrawal from Afghanistan boosted the Taliban. Then he lost progressives with his Israel policy.

Bernie's supporters weren't the type to concern themselves with world policing to begin with, so the complaining would mostly come from people who were never supporting him at all. His initial favorability would remain.

ironman2009 posted...

Bernie would be for Palestine I'm sure.

This is just complete wishcasting. Maybe Bernie's favorability would been sky high because people just project whatever they want to him. For palestine? Supporters not worried about world policing?

Bernies always been highly favorable with anyone not obsessed with the right leaning insiders of liberal podcasting/MSNBC.

And even then half of those types say they wouldve voted for him but were convinced he couldnt win by a podcast grifter or MSNBC host (both of which have since embarrassingly melted down and lost their cushy gigs)

animebop posted...

Whoa, Donald Trump must have had a lot of great conservative legislation passed while he was president! The wall is like 3000 miles, right?

The wall not passing was Trump's fault. Schumer offered Trump a wall deal back when the GOP had the House, but Trump's advisors told him it wasn't racist enough, so Trump rejected it.

animebop posted...

If the president was a less popular (he got fewer votes)

He's less popular among Democrats. Not the general public, according to polling.

Biden still has 80%+ approval among Dems, so you can't go by their opinions to determine what everyone else thinks.

No, none of his policies would have passed Congress nor would he have gotten any bipartisan support.

General voters couldnt name anything Bidens passed. They just see his inability to speak on TV and arent balancing that against how geeked they are for the giveaway to chip companies.

Biden spent every breath in the primary championing the public option as a realistic thing he could get done immediately along with the Republican fever breaking due to his civility politics. Believing him made you feel mature and understood how govt works.

The former was just a weapon he used against modernizing US healthcare that was forgotten as soon as he gained control and the latter, Republicans have never been crazier.

Yet the people that believed those promises are still his most ardent supporters now.

Easily yes. Bernie is significantly better at messaging than Biden was.

Polling better than who? Biden?

Maybe. Biden is polling like 10 points worse than the generic democrat.

But the generic democrat isn't absorbing the 24/7 attention of fox news like biden is.