slightly related - but during the Punk/Vince segment i like how in the apology segment of it even Vince has trouble keeping a straight face. like Punk goes for a good minute with Vince gonna jump in twice but Punk had it under control. after the LIKE IT! part Vince actually lets out a smile and takes the second or two to recompose himself.
and that part is probably the most self-identifying moment of it too. "I am CM Punk! And I am the voice of the voiceless!"
totally what he's running.
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The future must protect the clone's past. "Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
It doesn't RUIN the segment that he's not a Sox fan (seriously how does that even happen with someone living near there?), because the analogy is still accurate. It just means it doesn't hit as close to the heart.
The logical extension of that analogy is that CM Punk is the Cubs, which doesn't bode well for him! It would explain his PPV losing streak though.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
Cena still grew up in that culture. Anyone and everyone around the Boston area (as far as I know) bleeds red and gray if you so much as mention the Sox. Maybe that's a media fabrication, but the entire psyche of that town has been "we're downtrodden, we've been the whipping boy for so long, we're going to **** you guys up." That's no longer the case, but Cena was defending the Boston sentiments, and his own pride.
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"Should I slice off your tongue or break your countless bones? Either way, I get paid; you'll bleed to death and die alone." - Blood Money
Yeah, Cena laid that Boston accent on pretty thick too, kinda throwing it out there that he was one of them, for the purpose of setting up Punk's sports team metaphor.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
It doesn't RUIN the segment that he's not a Sox fan (seriously how does that even happen with someone living near there?), because the analogy is still accurate. It just means it doesn't hit as close to the heart.
Well, I think the fact that Punk was able to bring up Cena's family and wish death upon Vince McMahon and get off with a warning, but bringing up the Yankees resulted in physical assault doesn't RUIN the segment, but it sure as hell takes away a lot of the credibility of it.
Also, the fact that something that was shaping up to be one of the greatest promos of all time was all leading up to a grand finale of "insult the local sports team" was pretty damn disappointing.
-- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized http://img.imgcake.com/lolkrugmanjpgry.jpg
That was so much more than "insult the local sports team" though.
Like we've just been discussing, it wasn't cheap heat, it was using the fairly unique Boston/New York dynamic to completely demolish John Cena's image and paint him as a hypocrite and...a phony.
Huh.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
Right, because "Cena isn't actually the underdog" is some new and shocking revelation?
It WAS insulting the local sports team. If that show takes place ANYWHERE else, they have to do a completely and totally different ending to that promo for it to work. And hell, it still DIDN'T work because the crowd didn't really turn on Punk there at all. I honestly feel like Punk has been trying his damndest to play straight heel here, but someone up top completely underestimated the percentage of the fanbase that is at least sympathetic towards smarks.
-- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized http://img.imgcake.com/lolkrugmanjpgry.jpg
would go a step further - the image of John Cena is set within the fanbase unquestionably. the opinions in the back are also set pretty well.
but Punk is after the image of Cena as Cena identifies himself. Punk's goal, and judging by the punch he succeeded, was to get Cena to realize that time's passed and he's not just a champion, but the champion. that he can't play off like he's anything less as it's way too late. Punk's goal was to make Cena aware of himself and because of that, the analogy works. it's not a sports team bashing - hell he didn't bash ANY sports team at all in that segment. not one insult came from there. just the simple fact that they are no longer the underdogs. that they're the man now, they're top of the line - none of that's an insult.
the only way that becomes an insult is if he's shattering the image you have of them. in which case, really, it's an insult at you as a person and your being forced to see the truth.
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The future must protect the clone's past. "Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
if it takes place in NY it'd work pretty well too. the only thing that really needs to change is to get item 1 that's perceived differently than what it is. but Punk didn't insult Boston or their teams, just basically said "hey guys, you can't be the underdogs anymore when you've got a couple championships in every goddamn sport." naturally said in a more explosive way, but the focus was not on the sports teams. they were the analogy. it was entirely to Cena. he constantly made sure that Cena was referenced - even with the very ending, "you are what you hate" or pointing out his family in the front row. sports are just an easy way to make people everywhere understand, and it's of course best if you stick it with the region.
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The future must protect the clone's past. "Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
The revelation that Cena is afraid to admit is that he's no longer the rebel, he's no longer the upstart raging against the doubters, but he is in fact just another Evil Empire.
The Yankees get "undeserved" playoff chances because of their outlandish payroll. John Cena gets "undeserved" opportunities because of his outlandish merch sales.
Cena ran down that laundry list of guys he's had to prove wrong, and said he was gonna continue to do it against Punk. Cena that very night was still painting himself as a guy with something to prove. Punk obliterated that concept by pointing out his dynasty status.
Punk has never said that John Cena is a bad wrestler in kayfabe. He just thinks he's better, and that he doesn't get the same opportunity because he doesn't kiss ass.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
And I don't think Punk was trying to play 100% evil heel who is wrong in every way. The final stop for this angle is gonna be in a place that they openly acknowledge will cheer Punk to new heights and will be trying to boo Cena out of the building. The fact that a lot of people see the truths in Punk's message is enough to gain him a following.
Punk, Cena, and Vince are all three very distinct and flawed characters here, all in different ways. All three of them have something backing them that they firmly believe in that gives them strength, and yet they all have one glaring deficiency that gives none of them the moral high ground. It just took awhile to finally nail down Cena's.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
They had something going like that originally with Orton/Christian/Teddy too, where all 3 guys had clear understandable logic behind their actions and words, but yet there was still a flaw in all of their arguments.
It only took a month for that to devolve into something typical but still!
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
The revelation that Cena is afraid to admit is that he's no longer the rebel, he's no longer the upstart raging against the doubters, but he is in fact just another Evil Empire.
this exactly. and that's what i'm excited for right now with the arc. the character known as Cena's in a pretty dangerous spot right now not because of an outside factor like the case usually is (including Nexus), but because he himself is doing this to himself.
Cena's worked his ass off for the business and became champion. Cena did this repeatedly, keeping in the title scene PPV after PPV and given an infinite number of opportunities (not just the merch comparison, but also if you assume PPVs are the "playoffs", there you go). Cena's on a really good streak of WM main events and is even set for the NEXT one. Cena wanted Punk to be reinstated and put his job on the line. Cena stood up to Punk like he stands up to everyone else.
but Punk's not after the same things everyone else. Punk has worked his ass off through the industry from the bottom. Punk being where is he is comes nothing short of a ton of dedication, love, and respect for the business. Yet Punk's halfway an afterthought in ME matches. Cena sees this and understands where Punk is coming from, yet at the same time he's being forced to see what's basically a smarter, tired, pissed off, and younger version of what he pictures himself as. Cena's the rebel. Cena's the one who the people can love or hate, but go to watch. Cena's the man that you have faith in will prevail. ...except all that is what Punk is, and he's doing it to Cena.
and mind you, Punk accepts Cena the wrestler, Cena the man, and even Cena/Rock's match. remember that he said that Vince can keep that match if he wants, but it will be Punk in the main event. meaning, he's fine with Cena/Rock as a money making match. he understands that, he accepts that.
he does NOT accept Cena/Rock as the main event of the show. go back to his 6 minute promo-shoot - "the fact that Dwayne's in the main event at Wrestlemania and I'm not makes me sick!" the issue is not necessarily the Rock. the issue is that he should not be ME'ing it. that's a position that means something to Punk, yet Cena has taken it not only for granted, but literally took it at the first opportunity he had available this year. didn't earn it. took it, like it's his right to be there. yet he talks about how Punk earned this match.
so how again did Cena or the Rock earn the Wrestlemania match?
Cena just got told what he is and had no rebuttal outside of punching the guy. Cena is now self-aware and has to deal with that fact. even his feud with the Rock didn't make him self aware because really this entire time he's been shown as the underdog. i mean a rock bottom put Cena down for like an 8 count. >_>;
now granted. if WWE wants to miss the boat on this one they can do it pretty easily 'never compare me or boston to the yankees', but the comparison as well as the statements are all true. and i like to think that with something this big, and something that even Vince himself is pretty much chubbing up for, they'll treat it well.
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The future must protect the clone's past. "Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
oh yeah if it wasn't obvious enough - i really hope they go aomewhere with this main event argument. the argument of "Rock and Cena can have their WM match, it just shouldn't be the main event" is one that i think has legs to it, for both Cena's character (since he took it at first opportunity which goes against everything he's said), for Vince's relationship (since he's obviously in favor due to the money), and... well it doesn't do anything for the Rock in either direction. which makes it all the better i suppose. it also brings back the idea the main event as something special, which is something i really want to see them try. it should not just be a match, but the match. as the self-professed best in the world, Punk feels he should be in that match as an exclamation point to not just his talents, but what talent in WWE represents - if you are this good, you can make the top match of the top PPV. Rock/Cena did nothing for that position. nothing was earned, it was taken. it doesn't show anything to the talent backstage beyond "no matter how good you are, two people, one being a man who hasn't wrestled in almost a decade, will override all the hard work that you have done and WILL do over the next year." i want to see Punk (or anyone really, but Punk i feel does this best) give that position meaning again. as right now, you could be the best at everything all year and come Wrestlemania at best you're No. 2 to something that was done on a whim with no build, no work, no magic, and barely any talking.
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The future must protect the clone's past. "Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
Regardless I still love Evolution because it's so very rare that something like that gets set up and then in the end is actually allowed to reach its logical conclusion and finish later on.
i.e. "The stable is built around the Past, Present, and Future of the industry, now what happens to the Present when the Future arrives?"
Perfectly booked and completely satisfying downfall, which is more than I can say for any other mega stable in history, I think.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
1.) Verne Gagne 4,677 2.) Bruno Sammartino 4,040 3.) Lou Thesz 3,749 4.) Ric Flair 3,615 5.) Hulk Hogan 3,362 6.) Nick Bockwinkel 2,990 7.) Bob Backlund 2,138 8.) Harley Race 1,860 9.) Dory Funk, Jr. 1,502 10.) Gene Kiniski 1,159 11.) Triple H 1,155 12.) John Cena 1,126
Just out of curiosity, how high do we think Cena can realistically climb here. Is he gonna end up stuck at #10, or can they milk another few years worth of title reigns out of him?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
You know, I think we're kind of overrating the factor of "age" when we consider these things.
I think something like "total years spent in the business" would be a more meaningful measurement, due to the toll it takes on the body. I don't think Orton will wrestle for longer than Sheamus or Miz, he has to have taken a much greater amount of cumulative bumps and bruises than those guys. Look at Edge, or (even better) Jeff Hardy. Age isn't everything!
-- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized http://img.imgcake.com/lolkrugmanjpgry.jpg
oh definitely, a bad injury can really kill 10 years of your life off. Stone Cold and even Foley are solid examples to showcase just how bad the damage can get - Austin's only what, 45? 46? and he had to retire when he was around 40? y'know, R-Truth's and Jericho's age? Benoit hit 40 and was in fantastic conditioning. HBK's about as old as Austin and look how long he ran.
but age does matter as it takes a toll, rapidly, as you reach those middle years (ask Rey, and Morrison in 6 years). Orton i think will outlast Sheamus barring any major career disabilities. Sheamus is older and while his body's less damaged, his style is much more aggressive so he's gonna be doing harder matches. this is one aspect where Orton's speed is much more favorable to him. Miz also seems fairly safe and simple. Punk.... probably just continues by virtue of physical conditioning more than anything else. i honestly don't think there's a single guy on that roster who's in better shape, both physically AND for wrestling, than Punk. goes with the whole straight edge living. though Dragon should have a good while for him too for very similar reasons.
and drugs just murder you. <_<; to that end, HBK lasting so long as he did is one hell of a feat.
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The future must protect the clone's past. "Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
snowcs2 3:40 am (03:40:45): well if you look at it from a "faces strike back" angle (03:41:08): it's not so bad (03:41:27): i'm less disgusted with impact than usual (03:41:40): have i finally lost my mind?????