Board 8 > Obama advises a farmer to contact the USDA for an answer to his question

(+) Yeah! (+)

A journalist tried to do so. Here's how it went.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0811/call_uncle_sam_5c130fdd-0e34-4b04-99e1-3d923ea3919e.html

TLDR version: It didn't work.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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not his fault it didn't work.

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Totally not the point or the implication.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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I would think it not working would be the exact point.

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The farmer probably asked him in the first place figuring that the person at the top would know if anyone did!

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90s games > 00s games

This is what happens when your country is too big and people just don't care.

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This is just a consequence of modern America living in a technological state far more advanced that that of the government's infrastructure. If there were a USDA wiki or something this wouldn't be a problem.

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_foolmo_
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But I hope Obama is having a good vacation and really relaxing at Martha's Vineyard. Presidents really should get some time where they can get away from all the responsibility of being president........let the Vice President deal with it for a few days or something.

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90s games > 00s games

If there were a USDA wiki or something this wouldn't be a problem.

So why isn't there one? While you ponder that, allow me to highlight the really important part of this article.

Why do you suppose that everyone was laughing at him when he insisted that his answer was serious? Possibly because his perception on how government works is radically different from most people's (and from reality). As someone who has spent most of his life working for governmental agencies rather than requiring their assistance, I have no doubt that he truly did expect this question to be simply resolved within a few minutes with one simple phone call.

Anyone who has ever actually tried to do that knows that the odds of such a thing happening are about a million to one. Hell, even the most simple and common interactions with government usually require an appointment a week in advance, a good hour of showing up in person at some office, and filling out multiple complicated forms. How disconnected from reality must you be to not realize this? I'm sure when he calls the USDA, he gets a simple answer quickly, but to expect that such a thing would happen for any of us is insane. I'm sure that in medieval times, the lords thought the serfs lived quite well and were treated fairly, too.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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comparing the president to a monarch,eh?

In all reality i wonder why his modernizing how government works idea he ran on never went anywhere. even if it needed some funding youd thinkit would be such a common sense tthing to do that not even deficit hawks would mind too much.

i mean i dont know the details but contracting out to web designers to make a easy to use USDA wiki cant cost more than say one day of our three wars.

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i mean i dont know the details but contracting out to web designers to make a easy to use USDA wiki cant cost more than say one day of our three wars.

yeah but going into third world countries and ****ing everyones **** up is IMPORTANT

n all reality i wonder why his modernizing how government works idea he ran on never went anywhere. even if it needed some funding youd thinkit would be such a common sense tthing to do that not even deficit hawks would mind too much.

You're also missing the point.

It's not as if the information was easily available by an inferior technological method (the phone). The information wasn't available at all, and it took an exhaustive amount of effort to determine such. The issue isn't technology, it's accountability. Faceless bureaucratic organizations are literally not accountable to the people whatsoever, and they don't even pretend to be. This isn't even a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, this is the left hand not knowing what the left hand is doing, not caring, and refusing to explain to the rest of the body.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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Reminds me of when we tried to call the Health Department to report that our neighbor had mold growing on his vehicles (He's a hoarder. He should be on that hoarders show. It'd be a great series finale probably. He's pretty psycho. The FBI was looking into him at one time, though I don't think they ever realized that... thing was his house)

They redirected us to someone else. Who redirected us to someone else. Who directed us back to the health department. At which point we gave up.

The author of the article is referred to the EPA multiple times but never contacts the EPA.

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Yep, beaurocracy sucks, even when the president is Obama.

Crazy, isn't it?

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The difference being that Obama has increased bureaucracy and wants to increase it even more. Also, I doubt you'd be able to get a really committed leftist to agree with you that it sucks.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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So you have a nebulous question about vague policies that may or may not even exist and you expect a timely and concise answer. I wish the world were that easy. Referring to a department that works more closely with such policies on a day-to-day basis is the correct move.

Also, as noted, this sounds more like an EPA thing. The USDA would be concerned that the foodstuffs produced are of a certain minimum standard, no?

Really, the problem is with media not citing the ****ing source. I mean, look at how ars does this ****.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/08/need-a-warrant-to-unmask-internet-users-not-if-canada-gets-its-way.ars

This is completely nebulous non-existant policy right now (parliament isn't even in session right now, so it obviously can't exist). You have a link to a previous attempt by the Conservatives at similar policy (you can even refer to it by name: Bill C-52), so expect similar in the future. You know exactly how far in the pipe it is and what to expect.

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I think even leftists would agree that bureaucracy sucks. Only government employees would think otherwise.

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90s games > 00s games

The author of the article is referred to the EPA multiple times but never contacts the EPA.

because that would defeat the point that Obama wasn't technically right about who he should contact!

anyway this isn't just a government problem. not really even a bureaucracy problem! I see it happen all the time. for instance, when I bought a computer from Best Buy a couple years ago, the keyboard didn't work properly. so I called, they said "bring the keyboard back, we'll replace it on the spot for free." I did that, and was bounced between four different "departments" or whatever because no one I talked to had responsibility for replacing keyboards or had any idea who did. took about half an hour for something that actually took them about 30 seconds once I eventually found the right guy.

tl;dr this isn't government only, most people don't really have a clue on things they're supposed to know about!

They probably bounced him around since it was such a vague question. "Are there going to be more rules and regulations?" What kind of question is that?

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MIB, I'm glad you bring that up.

It does in fact happen in the private sector, but the difference is, in the private sector, your freedom of choice absolutely dwarfs that of the public sector. For one thing, you didn't have to buy the keyboard at all. That was a choice. But that aside, you could have easily chosen to pay a little bit more at a small local computer store and likely receive better service. But you didn't, so okay. In the private sector, you always have the option of delivering the ultimatum of "give me satisfaction or lose me as a customer." And yes, big companies will often call your bluff and say "don't let the door hit you on the way out," but that is still an option available to you.

Try doing that with government. They're likely to label you a terrorist and throw you in prison!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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SmartMuffin posted...
It does in fact happen in the private sector, but the difference is, in the private sector, your freedom of choice absolutely dwarfs that of the public sector. For one thing, you didn't have to buy the keyboard at all. That was a choice. But that aside, you could have easily chosen to pay a little bit more at a small local computer store and likely receive better service. But you didn't, so okay. In the private sector, you always have the option of delivering the ultimatum of "give me satisfaction or lose me as a customer." And yes, big companies will often call your bluff and say "don't let the door hit you on the way out," but that is still an option available to you.

Try doing that with government. They're likely to label you a terrorist and throw you in prison!

smartmuffin literally posted this

A terrorist? I think they'd send a couple notices that you owe back taxes, eventually audit you, then fine you, then after a period of months or years if you didn't pay up then they might try you for tax evasion, and if you were found guilty by a jury of your peers, then they'd put you in prison for a length determined by a democratically elected judge.

But yeah, terrorist, okay.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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