(5) General Tor From Iji, Tor is a Komato general who fights in an Eidolon class exoskeleton (which is 13.2 meters). This exoskeleton is physically extremely strong, and is equipped with a nanofield, which among other things acts as a powerful energy shield. He takes no damage at all from traditional firearms, and is in general extremely resistant to attacks that don't cause immediate concentrated damage, requiring hundreds of explosive rockets to take down. While somewhat slow and lacking in agility, Tor can jump over a kilometer in a very short span of time. Augmented by the exosuit, his muscles are strong enough to cause tremors with a stomp, and he can fire large missiles that multiply everywhere, shoot a shotgun blast of energy pellets that causes explosions where it hits, launch several spinning energy sawblades, fire charged balls of concentrated energy, shoot lasers that cause 5 foot high shockwaves when they hit anything, fire homing bombs that are 4 and a half feet in diameter, fire a laser rain that blasts a wide area, fire a laser that ignites the ground in a huge blast, release a nanoswarm that explodes on anything it comes in contact with, and carries a Phantom Hammer weapon with him, capable of cracking a planet.
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Though the Host emerged victorious, his clash with Neuro sent ripples through MPFCspace. Right turned to left, up became down, and a match that was never supposed to happen took place. A wise, resourceful immortal was unceremoniously dropped into an MPFC arena to face a deadly foe.
(Translation: You want silliness? Fine, but out of the normal tourney. Those interested may submit any one character to face The Doctor, plus TARDIS, and the character with the most votes will face off against him in a bonus match, alongside GANON/Vriska. There you go. Now, back to your scheduled transmission.)
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-Matches will last exactly 24 hours. Votes after that much time has elapsed will not be counted, even if a new topic hasn't gone up yet. -This is a contest to determine which character is the most *powerful*. Vote only for the character you think would win in a fight, not the one who's funnier, cooler, or sexier. If you don't do that I can't count your vote. -BOLD YOUR VOTE. Unbolded votes will NOT be counted. -Rallying is allowed. Alts are not. -Fights will take place in a neutral terrain. This does not necessarily mean a *featureless* terrain: assume that both characters will have a chance to use all of their skills to the fullest here, barring setting-specific abilities and anything that requires the presence of multiple enemies (but see below). -Characters start the fight alone. They don't bring allies with them, like Kerrigan and the Zerg Swarm for instance. Summons are allowed though, provided they're brought once combat has started. -Fighters retain their usual personalities. They won't fight to kill unless that's their MO, and won't spam their best attacks to win unless, again, that's how they act in their original media. -Similarly, fighters are unaware of their opponents capabilities at the start of the fight unless their powers facilitate them information (like knowing all there is to know in the universe - this would include who the opponent is and what he can do, as well as weaknesses) -You don't have to justify your vote, but it helps. If you feel like you can add something to the debate, go right ahead! -Seriously, BOLD THE VOTE. So important it bears repeating. -Bracket Link, for viewing past results and future matches: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?&tid=408528&tclass=
Past Results:
An obvious upset. An unexpected close match. A hilarious battle. A debacle. A reality breaking catastrophe. All of these epithets and more could be applied to the match between Neuro and The Host. In the end, the entity known as Plot advances after a slugfest (but see fourth post). Votals: 9-14.
(4) Zero
From the Mega Man X/Zero series, Zero is an android and one of the main heroes of the series. Zero is capable of lifting several thousand pounds in weight and has advanced speed, capable of creating afterimages of himself. Zero tries to suppress his emotions in battle, but he truly desires peace and hates unnecessary killing.
Zero's trademark weapon is his Z-Saber, a beam weapon that can perform combo attacks. He also has access to the Buster Shot Gun, which is detachable, the Shield Boomerang (a shield created by spinning the Saber in a circle), and the Zero Knuckle, which rips off enemy robots' parts and uses them.
vs.
(Cont)
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What is this Doctor with TARDIS stuff? Somebody said something about fanboy logic so I'm not sure if looking up the source material is going to help me here.
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Wanglicious posted... the general idea that it's invincible and he's invincible in it and that he can find a way to win pretty much. aka, fanboy incarnate.
It factually is invincible and thus he is invincible while in it. The only "fanboy logic" comes from arguing that he would actually hide inside it the whole time.
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Yeah, Doc's thing is that he will always come out of the Tardis to go look at possible weirdness, even if it would put him in terrible danger. That said, Saint's bullets track endlessly and phase through whatever's between them and the target to get where they're going, so 'bang'
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From: redrocket | #011 Wanglicious posted... the general idea that it's invincible and he's invincible in it and that he can find a way to win pretty much. aka, fanboy incarnate.
It factually is invincible and thus he is invincible while in it. The only "fanboy logic" comes from arguing that he would actually hide inside it the whole time.
An immovable force is only immovable until it meets an unstoppable object. There's always a bigger fish out there.
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it's pretty much the same kind of reasoning behind character X being the strongest in the world. good for them in their universe, too bad for them if they get put in a different one.
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KanzarisKelshen posted... From: redrocket | #011 Wanglicious posted... the general idea that it's invincible and he's invincible in it and that he can find a way to win pretty much. aka, fanboy incarnate.
It factually is invincible and thus he is invincible while in it. The only "fanboy logic" comes from arguing that he would actually hide inside it the whole time. An immovable force is only immovable until it meets an unstoppable object. There's always a bigger fish out there.
That's fine. But it is invincible within his own universe, that part of the argument is not "fanboy logic".
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
From: redrocket | #015 KanzarisKelshen posted... From: redrocket | #011 Wanglicious posted... the general idea that it's invincible and he's invincible in it and that he can find a way to win pretty much. aka, fanboy incarnate.
It factually is invincible and thus he is invincible while in it. The only "fanboy logic" comes from arguing that he would actually hide inside it the whole time. An immovable force is only immovable until it meets an unstoppable object. There's always a bigger fish out there.
That's fine. But it is invincible within his own universe, that part of the argument is not "fanboy logic".
Which is fair, but irrelevant. Calling it invincible implies certain things. If you say a character is omniscient and said character is then jumped by something he isn't omniscient for instance. Same with the TARDIS and defensive might.
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KanzarisKelshen posted... Which is fair, but irrelevant. Calling it invincible implies certain things. If you say a character is omniscient and said character is then jumped by something he isn't omniscient for instance. Same with the TARDIS and defensive might.
I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying that because it might not be invincible to things from outside his own universe, that we shouldn't call it invincible in the first place?
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
invincible, unstoppable, etc only last until something proves otherwise. juggy's the classic case to use - is he unstoppable? to 99% of things out there, yeah. there just happen to be characters who can literally rip a planet in half if they felt like it and are able to stop him. even if they didn't exist, he would only be as good as he's shown. doesn't really exist all in all. so no, saying something is invincible doesn't actually say anything, but infers a lot of things (e.g., if there were a series where a nuke is the highest level of damage possible, and something doesn't even get phased by it, in that series you can call it 'invincible,' however it's entirely worthless with higher level beings).
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The future must protect the clone's past. "Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
From: redrocket | #018 KanzarisKelshen posted... Which is fair, but irrelevant. Calling it invincible implies certain things. If you say a character is omniscient and said character is then jumped by something he isn't omniscient for instance. Same with the TARDIS and defensive might.
I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying that because it might not be invincible to things from outside his own universe, that we shouldn't call it invincible in the first place?
Yes. Go and look at Sarda's writeup for instance. Since we know he was blindsided, I listed him as nigh omniscient in spite of the 8BT wiki giving him full omniscience respect, because it was clearly not the case. I'd rather avoid misunderstandings, that's all.
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And yet the writeup for the Host just lists him as omnipotent and omniscient, with no qualifiers. Care to explain that?
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
Again, Zero vs Tor is pretty much a Megaman endgame boss fight (right down to Tor having a weakness to having his own shots batted at him). Except Tor is probably on a higher level than any Megaman game boss. He takes *ages* to kill when you aren't hitting him with reflected shots, and even those take awhile
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From: redrocket | #022 And yet the writeup for the Host just lists him as omnipotent and omniscient, with no qualifiers. Care to explain that?
The Host is listed as omniscient because he actually has showings of him entirely bypassing veils placed to deceive someone with knowledge of everything ("The facsimile of knowledge you created to shroud your rooms was very subtle, but I am the master of this realm. Hiding things from me for long is impossible.", in a context where...bah, I should really just go back and pick up the part where the cloaking was set), he knows what will happen at every point in time (as evidenced by the time trap he laid during his bout with his butler, which triggered as soon as he stepped to the beginning of time and hurled him back). He's listed as omnipotent because he has all the powers, too: name an ability and he can do it. This doesn't mean unbeatable, however. There's a couple characters who would tie him and some more who could potentially beat him. This dovetails with the way I described Sarda, by the way: I listed him as "all powerful", but not "omniscient". AKA omnipotent but not all-knowing.
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KanzarisKelshen posted... From: redrocket | #022 And yet the writeup for the Host just lists him as omnipotent and omniscient, with no qualifiers. Care to explain that? The Host is listed as omniscient because he actually has showings of him entirely bypassing veils placed to deceive someone with knowledge of everything ("The facsimile of knowledge you created to shroud your rooms was very subtle, but I am the master of this realm. Hiding things from me for long is impossible.", in a context where...bah, I should really just go back and pick up the part where the cloaking was set), he knows what will happen at every point in time (as evidenced by the time trap he laid during his bout with his butler, which triggered as soon as he stepped to the beginning of time and hurled him back). He's listed as omnipotent because he has all the powers, too: name an ability and he can do it. This doesn't mean unbeatable, however. There's a couple characters who would tie him and some more who could potentially beat him. This dovetails with the way I described Sarda, by the way: I listed him as "all powerful", but not "omniscient". AKA omnipotent but not all-knowing.
So your argument for listing the Host as omnipotent/omniscient is that has always been shown to be so within his own show.
The TARDIS has been shown to be invincible within Dr. Who. What is the problem?
And there is no way anyone could beat an omnipotent being without that being's consent. If there is a character who can, the other being is by definition not omnipotent.
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
From: redrocket | #026 KanzarisKelshen posted... From: redrocket | #022 And yet the writeup for the Host just lists him as omnipotent and omniscient, with no qualifiers. Care to explain that? The Host is listed as omniscient because he actually has showings of him entirely bypassing veils placed to deceive someone with knowledge of everything ("The facsimile of knowledge you created to shroud your rooms was very subtle, but I am the master of this realm. Hiding things from me for long is impossible.", in a context where...bah, I should really just go back and pick up the part where the cloaking was set), he knows what will happen at every point in time (as evidenced by the time trap he laid during his bout with his butler, which triggered as soon as he stepped to the beginning of time and hurled him back). He's listed as omnipotent because he has all the powers, too: name an ability and he can do it. This doesn't mean unbeatable, however. There's a couple characters who would tie him and some more who could potentially beat him. This dovetails with the way I described Sarda, by the way: I listed him as "all powerful", but not "omniscient". AKA omnipotent but not all-knowing.
So your argument for listing the Host as omnipotent/omniscient is that has always been shown to be so within his own show.
The TARDIS has been shown to be invincible within Dr. Who. What is the problem?
And there is no way anyone could beat an omnipotent being without that being's consent. If there is a character who can, the other being is by definition not omnipotent.
omnipotent [%u0252m%u02C8n%u026Ap%u0259t%u0259nt] adj having very great or unlimited power
Definition of OMNIPOTENT 1 often capitalized : almighty 1 2 : having virtually unlimited authority or influence <an omnipotent ruler>
in·vin·ci·ble/in%u02C8vins%u0259b%u0259l/ Adjective: Too powerful to be defeated or overcome: "an invincible warrior".
Definition of INVINCIBLE : incapable of being conquered, overcome, or subdued <a seemingly invincible army>
In other words: Invincible is even more superlative than omnipotent. You can argue this is semantics or whatever, but omnipotence has leeway. Invincibility does not.
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From: DeathChicken | #005 Tor is very much like a Megaman endboss, except way the hell tankier than anything Zero's probably fought. I dunno
This sounds like my exact thought, though Zero's killed some pretty big things before.
"Can Zero just slash it to death" is the question really.
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I think Zero is outclassed here. Tor is tankier and has more firepower than anything I recall Zero facing. I think Iji has similar firepower to Zero, and I'm pretty sure that maximum charge Tor can't be harmed by any of her weapons (or maybe they only just barely hurt him), aside from her reflecting his attacks back at him
I doubt that Zero will be able to survive Tor unloading on him long enough to whittle away at him
From: DeathChicken | #023 Again, Zero vs Tor is pretty much a Megaman endgame boss fight (right down to Tor having a weakness to having his own shots batted at him). Except Tor is probably on a higher level than any Megaman game boss. He takes *ages* to kill when you aren't hitting him with reflected shots, and even those take awhile
Oh and Zero's Boomerang reflects.
This is ripped right outta MM.
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om·nip·o·tent adjective 1. almighty or infinite in power, as God.
Only definition of omnipotent I've ever used or seen used, but whatever.
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I think Zero is outclassed here. Tor is tankier and has more firepower than anything I recall Zero facing. I think Iji has similar firepower to Zero, and I'm pretty sure that maximum charge Tor can't be harmed by any of her weapons (or maybe they only just barely hurt him), aside from her reflecting his attacks back at him
I doubt that Zero will be able to survive Tor unloading on him long enough to whittle away at him
Why are you referring to Zero as a female
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It's also only one type of attack out of Tor's dozen or so that can actually be reflected (I think it's his energy shotgun thing, but I could be wrong)
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Also, back on the main topic, this fight is pretty damn amazing. It is indeed ripped straight outta a particularly badass MMX/Z game, and lots of fun. Personally, I think Zero can take this, as he's wayyyyyyyyy more agile than Iji. The only thing that goes against him is that he doesn't have the Phantom Hammer know-how to bounce the charges back at Tor, but that's a small detail when you consider he's like an unholy fusion of Iji, Iosa, and Asha, merging a bunch of their best qualities and adding his own.
Also, he could totally Zero Knuckle Tor's gun. Jus' sayin. >_>
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From: Jeff Zero | #038 Zero came back from the dead several times. His opponent today sounds nasty as hell but Zero is a bit OP in terms of plot armor.
He was repaired though. The best he'd have here is E-Tanks if that.
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One thing you should note about Tor before voting here. His fight against Iji was extremely atypical. He agreed to a fair deathmatch against her due to guilt over wiping out her entire planet. He doesn't normally act like that, just look at when he fought Hel Sarie. She starts flying into combat, he phantom hammers her from halfway across the planet. He would have no qualms staying at range in this fight if he had to, I'm fairly sure. At the very least he wouldn't stick around if he was close to losing.
But really, I can't see Zero reflecting the charge shots, and there's no way in hell he'd survive the hammer. Tor's weapons pack quite a punch as well, and he's smart with them. He uses the more effective ones more often (in gameplay, the more he hits you with a weapon, the more he uses it). Not to mention he's one hell of a tank. Assuming Zero's charged buster shots are as strong as a plasma rifle from Iji, he'd have to land 400 shots to take Tor down. I mean hell, look at one of the weapons in Iji. A railgun that fires thousands of rounds per second. And there's no way in hell you'd beat Tor with that alone >_>.
Plus, Maximum charge Tor summons skysmashers quite often. Those things are very hard to hit, and pretty tough.
Anyways, Tor
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His weapons are designed for fighting Armies, not induviduals. But he could just step on Zero probably, and he can cause quakes strong enough to launch you quite a ways into the air just by stomping the ground, so...
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From: Wanglicious | #041 <_<; e-tank? you... never played the Zero series i see. cyber elves. a lot of cyber elves.
Weren't those basically noncanonical (i. e. Zero always got by on not using cyber elves)? Or am I just remembering the requirements for endings and that's not what happened?
From: saveus_Maria | #044 also what is to stop Zero from dashing between the giant mechas legs and slashing into it from below
as far as I can tell all of his attacks have a trajectory of 'straight forward'
"fly, mega laser, cooked."
Not that it couldn't work though.
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From: Wanglicious | #041 <_<; e-tank? you... never played the Zero series i see. cyber elves. a lot of cyber elves.
Further commenting on this: Zero has subtanks in Z4. So...uhhh...yeeeeeeah. >_>
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From: saveus_Maria | #044 also what is to stop Zero from dashing between the giant mechas legs and slashing into it from below
as far as I can tell all of his attacks have a trajectory of 'straight forward'
The fact that Tor can jump miles at once and he stomps the ground hard enough to send Iji flying into the air?
Anyway
Tor
This is probably the most badass fight to visualize in all of MPFC
I think he wins though because he's insanely durable. The attacks you reflect back at him are the charges he uses to fire the Phantom Hammer, so every attack you reflect is basically 1/4 of a blast that can cut through a planet. Iji's own weapons barely scratch him, and it's worth nothing her weapons are a *lot* better than just a standard machinegun or shotgun or whatever - one of the logs you can find says that the Komato are amazed because the weapon she's using has been reverse engineered to the point that it's basically a smaller scale version of the gun their Generals use. Granted she doesn't go into battle with the energy of an entire reactor in her system or anything but she's still packing much heavier firepower than you'd think.
And as said before, Tor fought Iji on even terms because he felt pity for her/was impressed by her (depending on whether you're a pacifist or not). He would be a lot less hesitant to use his mobility against Zero, and we know "wipe out the target and everything even close to it from extreme range" is a strategy he's used to great effect in the past.
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