Board 8 > Castlevania - Harmony of Despair : PSN Game Of The Year : Out This Tuesday!

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GANON1025
10/06/11 6:09:00 PM
#151:


Yeah, with yorick and puppet master Soma has some good shortcuts, plus he can usually go where Shanoa can

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Lopen
10/06/11 6:10:00 PM
#152:


There are very few places Yorick can get you that a nearby enemy can't. And there are some places pegs get you that Yorick can't get you.

The peg also launches you so it's not just about being able to get places as much as it's faster to use them.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 6:11:00 PM
#153:


Soma can beat chapters 1-5 in under a minute and 2 for DLC chapters (barring Chapter 10's start to Dracula glitch)

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 6:13:00 PM
#154:


And there are some places pegs get you that Yorick can't get you.

Uh no? Medusa Head +Yorik can get Soma anywhere Shanoa can go.

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GANON1025
10/06/11 6:22:00 PM
#155:


I can hardly think of place Soma can't get to that Shanoa can. And there are plenty of places where yorick is beyond essential, like the various shortcuts in 4.

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Lopen
10/06/11 6:24:00 PM
#156:


Shanoa can do most chapters about as fast if you know how to abuse imps/harpies-- losing only the time it takes to lure the enemy to you. Richter can probably do them faster.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 6:26:00 PM
#157:


Only place where the magnes has an advantage over Yorik is chapter 7's outside with the rocks. But Shanoa still has to go inside and get the switch while Soma can just Yorik climb the wall to the boss which still makes him the fastest in all chapters.

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Lopen
10/06/11 6:51:00 PM
#158:


Actually I'm pretty sure Shanoa can speedrun chapter 1 faster than Soma in theory simply because he uses yorick to get through areas that have pegs which are faster. Chapter 2 can be a pain but with a few seconds you can lure a green boomerang guard out to jump on him which I think is the majority of the time yorick saves there. Chapter 4 you can actually lure an imp to take the same route Soma does in a speedrun and you lose like 10 seconds and I suspect Richter might be able to save time there despite having to lure the imp. Chapter 3 I suspect the same thing is possible with the imp but I haven't looked into it cause I don't really run that level ever. Chapter 5 you can actually ride the harpy up the right side to do the same thing Soma does though I'm unconvinced it saves that much time vs the left side anyway as I can run that level taking the left side with shanoa, no speed boots, and going for not taking hits (meaning I have to wait for some of the gears rather than plowing through them) in 2 minutes. Chapter 6 they take identical routes cause there are no shortcuts so Richter is faster at the very least. I dunno about the DLC levels but yeah.

It's easier to speed run with Soma but with some outside the box thinking and using enemies you can get similar results with most characters. And other characters just feel faster if you're not outright speedrunning, I think.

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Chinballz
10/06/11 7:06:00 PM
#159:


For Soma, try focusing on getting a Muramasa or its +1 version.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:07:00 PM
#160:


So much wrong there.

Soma can yorik up the bridge you have pull down above the water you have to let down to go past the buzzsaws, Oxoectuntior lets him Yorik past the Axe Armors and angels and he can kill Gergoth faster than Shanoa.

Soma can walk through everything chapter 2 with Oxocutioner and Yorik up to Puppet Master no prob. He can kill Puppet Master faster with Fish Head or Miser Rings.

Chap 3, no contest, Soma can just Yorik to Menace from the start and wake him him in 10 seconds and kill him with fish heads.

Chap 4 obviously Soma.

Chap 5, again, Soma can just tear through the harpies with Oxocutioner and Yorik to Death and kill him with Fish Heads.

6 obv Soma, he can destroy final guards with valmanways or Puppet Master behind them. Shanoa doesn't really have an answer to Final Guards.

Already explained 7.

8, Oxocutioner cuts through everything, Fish Head kills Leigon faster than Globus or Acerbatuts.

Ditto for 9.

Shanoa is mediocre in Chapter 10, Soma has fish head, leigon, warg, ukoback ect to rape the stage with.

11 Konami just gave up with the slash resistance and Soma can Valmanway through.

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:15:00 PM
#161:


I'm not talking about killing speed I'm talking about getting through the level. Shanoa can get to the boss about as fast as Soma in pretty much all the base chapters and I just explained why. You want to "tear through the harpies" well cool I'm just saying they're very viable routes to get up the side if you know how. Also Soma having a solution to get past final guards is rather irrelevant because it's quicker to either bounce over its head or just eat a hit than to use puppet master-- both of which Shanoa can do.

Like I said you just have to think by using enemies as kickdive platforms rather than just having an easy way to do it in your pocket. Kinda like playing Soma vs other characters, actually. Other characters you have to think Soma you just run through mashing attack.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:17:00 PM
#162:


Except you have to rely on luring enemies while Soma is already there opening a gold chest.

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:19:00 PM
#163:


Yeah but luring enemies only really matters in chapter 4 (and maybe 3, haven't tested) and it only takes you like 10 seconds tops. And Richter might make that up since he's faster in straightaways.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:21:00 PM
#164:


And Yorik only takes 1-2 seconds depending if he has to climb. And there's no levels where Richter can beat a stage faster than Soma or even get to the boss.

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:22:00 PM
#165:


But like I said this isn't really about speed running anyway. Normal play of the game, looting all the purple chests and whathaveyou, Richter and Shanoa both feel faster than Soma cause they have mobility options that actually speed them up rather than simply allowing them to circumvent parts of the level. I doubt SHINE is going to be speedrunning with Soma anyway.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:28:00 PM
#166:


lol who needs purple chests outside of a Shanoa spell, Fuma Gear and R. Boomerang/Firebomb. Everyone speeds runs online because Boss chests are the only chests worth opening.

You can say they feel fast but I've almost got every item in the game by just having local co-op characters sit there and letting Soma kill the boss, I've already 100% chapters 1-9 and only need stuff on chapter 10-11 because mostly of the chapter 6 garbage showing up in chapter 10's stuff and Muramasa +1 is stupid rare and the level is long without any shortcuts. And the game is barley a week old.

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GANON1025
10/06/11 7:28:00 PM
#167:


I never tried Julius, how is his maneuverability? He can use the pegs too.

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GANON1025
10/06/11 7:31:00 PM
#168:


Very few people speed run online from what I've seen. People like purple chests, along with other chests, because exploring the different items and layouts for characters and having a gradual progression of power is more fun for a lot of people than a laser-focused "get all the best stuff right now, forget the rest" mentality. Not that that can't be rewarding for some, but to completely dismiss a large portion of the game like that seems silly.

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SHINE GET 64
10/06/11 7:33:00 PM
#169:


GANON1025 posted...
I never tried Julius, how is his maneuverability? He can use the pegs too.

Omnia Vanitas

Omnia Vanitas

Omnia Vanitas

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:34:00 PM
#170:


Well like I said, Soma's kinda "autopilot" and the other characters you have to think about how to use tools to abuse the level to speedrun it. But if it's only gonna take me a few seconds more to beat a level in most cases it's not really a big deal.

Also if you want a level Richter can 100% beat Soma's time it's chapter 6. There are a fair amount of straightaways, no real shortcuts, and Richter's dash attack is quicker at getting through final guards than Puppet Master or just taking damage.

I haven't really ever got items ridiculous enough to try a full fledged speed run so I can't say on the other chapters but yeah. I'm sure it's at least conceptually possible with a lot of them.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:34:00 PM
#171:


You must not play online much past the DLC being shiny new, since the 360 version's online is all speed runner blenders with a Belmont in chapter ten trying to get Retro equipment. It's not that bad now since the game is new and a lot of people haven't gotten their Valmanways yet.

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GANON1025
10/06/11 7:36:00 PM
#172:


Well, I meant in PS3. Certainly by now on 360 there's not many new players left.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:42:00 PM
#173:


Also Richter doesn't beat Soma in chapter 6 since he still has to fight off the Thunder/Sea Demon who will follow him and Soma can just plow through them with Oxocutioner.

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:42:00 PM
#174:


I only play casual online with people I know and offline. 5 blenders running to the boss over and over is zzz.

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paperwarior
10/06/11 7:42:00 PM
#175:


I have $20 PSN. This or Saints Row 2?! I know you guys might be biased.

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:44:00 PM
#176:


From: SSJSephirothGokuX123 | #173
Also Richter doesn't beat Soma in chapter 6 since he still has to fight off the Thunder/Sea Demon who will follow him and Soma can just plow through them with Oxocutioner.


Richter can kill these things on the move with subweapons and dashing. No stopping required.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:48:00 PM
#177:


He still has to stop and fight them, Soma doesn't. Those demons are the roadblocks that prevent Richter from getting there since those are at the parts where he can slide through while Soma will have the advantage of Oxocutioner/Yorik in the Medusa Head rooms.

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:51:00 PM
#178:


I just told you you don't have to stop. You throw attacks out while moving and it doesn't slow you down at all because if you attack midair you keep your momentum.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:52:00 PM
#179:


If you miss with the weapon or whip/dash/kick you still have to go back and finish them off. Also Soma has to do is use Oxocutioner when they try to dive into him.

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Lopen
10/06/11 7:54:00 PM
#180:


Or you can just not finish them off and let them keep following you and swing at them again when it's convenient. It's not a big deal really. Also they don't really have as much hp as you're trying to let off anyway. I think one level 9 axe in their general area will kill them.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 7:57:00 PM
#181:


The Thunder Demons aren't in the axe reach. Two of them are across the room and if you slide past them they'll chase you from the sides and annoy you unless you kill them. And they do have a quite a bit of HP and no holy weakness you you can't use the cross to one shot them.

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Lopen
10/06/11 8:16:00 PM
#182:


I just tried the level as Richter with level 6 axe level 6 cross level 5 bible and crappy equipment. They're not really an issue. I hit the first thunder demon with an axe that hit twice, the second and third with a cross while jumping in that hit twice. Then finish with a spindash as they pursue or by leaving a bible behind on my trail. If I had maxed subweapons and/or better gear I'm not even sure they'd stand up beyond the first subweapon hit.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:25:00 PM
#183:


Which difficulty, hard or (lol) normal? Normal enemies have no HP and Fuma can wreck them. Enemies on hard are also faster an more aggressive.

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GANON1025
10/06/11 8:28:00 PM
#184:


Why do you say that like Fuma is bad? Fuma is awesome.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:30:00 PM
#185:


i think the bigger question is why do you think Fuma is good?

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Lopen
10/06/11 8:31:00 PM
#186:


Hard. They don't have that much HP <_<. Dash hits for ~100 at this level and cross hits for 60 a shot.

The medusa heads cost me a lot more time than they did cause they hit me twice (I got to drac's chamber in 1:20) but I'm not really playing at peak form either and I have no speed boots.

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GANON1025
10/06/11 8:32:00 PM
#187:


All his subweapons are great and useful and hit a bunch of times (except war drum), focusing his triple flames + sword deals good damage, the flames can deal with those pesky little enemies really well, his namesake armor is awesome, his taunt pose is solid, he's got a lot of heart and never gives up

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:33:00 PM
#188:


No speed boots huh? That explains a lot, Richter's slide isn't much faster than tri jumping with Sonic Boots.

Richter also doen't gain speed on his martial arts with speed boots.

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Lopen
10/06/11 8:37:00 PM
#189:


I realize the speed gain is lower but it's still a little faster

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:39:00 PM
#190:


All of Fuma's subweapons are mediocre. And he has the worst damage output in the game without Miser Rings, but then you're just playing a poor man's Alucard then. And his armor isn't unique to him since Belmonts can use them. The girls can use robe decollete to match his MP regen since they already are higher than him without MP boosting equipment (except Maria.) And Soma has Trent match him in MP regen. Alucard's spells are trash so all he use MP for is mist.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:43:00 PM
#191:


That little speed boost from the slide kick isn't going to make up for the fact that Soma can just Oxocutioner past demons and Medusa Heads like they're not there.

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GANON1025
10/06/11 8:44:00 PM
#192:


you know what, you/me in survival mode when I max out Fuma vs. your Soma and we'll see who's where heh

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:46:00 PM
#193:


Soma wins by Legion spam and Oxocutioner being invincible to anything Fuma throws.

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Lopen
10/06/11 8:47:00 PM
#194:


Richter can ignore them too. I lost literally zero time to the demons and the medusa heads I only lost time to because of my own bad dodgging

Like if you have less dodging skill or whatever then yeah Soma's going to be faster but given optimal play Richter is going to win out there. Slide jump saves you time in quite a few places in that level and he gets through the huge monsters a little quicker than the puppet teleport.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:49:00 PM
#195:


Optimal skill there's a puppet master glitch in chapter 6 Soma can use to go from the start to Dracula. It's hard to do but you said optimal skill.

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Lopen
10/06/11 8:50:00 PM
#196:


Well okay if you want to equate a really hard glitch that will probably be patched to "being a little better at dodging" be my guest

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 8:59:00 PM
#197:


They didn't patch it in the first 360 update, it's still there in the PS3 version (even through they putt a barrier so Johnathon can't do his start to Dracula glitch.) It's not going anywhere, the developers love Soma too much.

But hey, you've pretty much lost this one, you started it by saying Shanoa and Richter are faster than Soma and I've proven you wrong every time. Now you're bring up skill so why not also say Yoko and Charlotte are faster than Soma as well? And bringing up the fact that Richter has to dodge while Soma doesn't, that a huge point towards saying Soma is the faster character.

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Lopen
10/06/11 9:09:00 PM
#198:


Okay. Think you've won if you want.

Why I'm wasting time arguing with a guy named SSJ Sephiroth Goku 123 is beyond me.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123
10/06/11 9:16:00 PM
#199:


Don't forget you've been constantly proven wrong by a guy named SSJSephirothGokuX123.

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Lopen
10/06/11 9:31:00 PM
#200:


Not really no. If SSJ X Sephiroth Goku can't actually understand things like dodging and attacking while moving doesn't actually slow you down then there's no real point to arguing with him.

Probably because he just mashes attack with Soma all day and has forgotten what dodging actually is

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