It's not the same concept. The closed space that Haruhi was creating at the point that Yuki was unable to interfere was the basis for a new universe. Asakura doesn't do the same thing at all. So that's why I was saying it was an iffy example.
So (correct me if I am misinterpreting) that basically when closed space is on "making a new universe" level she cant screw with it
Cause the space within STTGL is already universe level >_>
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
In other circumstances I'd say that that line of thinking is stretching it, but it's MPFC, so sure, I guess.
STTGL.
Nagato's ability as a reality warper is kind of overrated anyway.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
***Haruhi and Gurren Lagann series spoilers*** - - - - - - Yuki's writeup says that she has managed to exist outside the space-time continuum. - How exactly does that work? Is it something she would likely do in a combat situation? - From what I understand, STTGL is pretty much limited to physical attacks (Giga Drill Breaker and the like). It has no way of attacking outside the space-time continuum or forcing her to manifest within the space-time continuum. Is this right?
Yuki's true existence is outside the space-time continuum. Her physical body is just a way of interacting with things inside the continuum. Damaging the body doesn't really do anything since she can just repair it. STTGL can punch a hole in the space-time continuum so it can probably go after Yuki's true existence. However, I don't see why STTGL would even try to do something like that. They see Yuki in front of them. They have no reason to try attack anything else other than the Yuki they see.
If we were going by that they are bound to find Yuki considering they were able to find Nia. GL is all about screwing the rules / making all universal laws and other universe laws / probability / time / space (basically everything) their *****.
They had the ring and were actively searching for Nia. They have no reason to be searching for Yuki because they think she's right in front of them.
also tbh I don't think her "reset the universe" hax would even work on the pilots either.
Has she demonstrated multiverse hax (hacking other universes etc) I mean I remember her not being able to hax Haruhi at all due to her being in a "closed space" or something at one point. The space within STTGL is essentially another universe (a spiral universe or something according to the creators of GL)
Yuki was able to partially break into the new universe Haruhi was creating. That's about it for what we know.
STTGL relies on brute force and that won't get you anywhere against Yuki. Given enough time (and she'll have endless amounts of it if STTGL can't kill her), Yuki will figure out and start interfering with the flow of spiral energy or severing the flow of energy altogether.
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Pokemon VGC2011 NW Regional - Top 8 Pokemon VGC2011 US Nationals - 54th place
***Spoilers for Haruhi and TTGL*** - - - - - It's not clear if her true form can exist in the regular universe or not (since we know almost nothing about it). I don't think that should be held against her. Yuki can be defeated by severing the connection between her true form and the regular universe but STTGL can't do that with just brute force. Also she's not 100% safe because TTGL can attack things outside the space-time continuum. Once again not Yuki's fault if they don't think to do that.
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Pokemon VGC2011 NW Regional - Top 8 Pokemon VGC2011 US Nationals - 54th place
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"You dare not look at my explosion? Like some kind of hero?! I'LL KILL YOU!!! ~ Willydahivemind. http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/120003/phoenixtrio.gif
***Haruhi and TTGL spoilers*** - - - - - STTGL's pilots will never try to attack Yuki's existence outside the space-time continuum since they'll never think of doing it while Yuki's physical body is in front of them. Since they won't do this, STTGL has no way to kill or restrain Yuki and have no way to win the battle.
Whether it would take a long time or a short time, Yuki can win by stealing spiral power from the STTGL pilots. Or she can just outlast their spiral power. They have a finite amount as shown by even Simon getting worn out when against the Death Spiral Machine. I don't really remember how long it took for Simon to start to run out but I don't think it was all that long a period of time. Yuki can also disrupt "data links" which would let he disrupt the flow of spiral energy through out STTGL or just outright hijack the movements of parts of it. At the same time as this, she can disrupt the pilots through that paralysis thing I mention before. Even if you think they can break through it, it's more spiral energy they have to waste on defending against.
Nagato Yuki
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Pokemon VGC2011 NW Regional - Top 8 Pokemon VGC2011 US Nationals - 54th place
Er, if they smash Nagato's body, Nagato probably won't be in a position to continue the fight, I think.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but when Yuki froze Kyon and Mikuru, it wasn't the type of freezing they were actively aware of - they were literally frozen in such a way that their minds were not active in the slightest
when Anti-Spiral put the crew into their little pocket dimensions (or whatever they were), their minds were still active, which was what enabled them to escape - Yuki's freezing wouldn't provide them such a luxury
I'm not sure what restrictions there are on her ability to do that, but I'm sure TRE will be able to elucidate this issue
-- thelefty for analysis crew 2008 imo -tranny I have a third degree burn in flame-o-nomics -Sir Chris
***Haruhi and TTGL spoilers*** - - - - - I don't see why she couldn't just repair it unless STTGL starts trying to take the fight outside the space-time continuum. It's just the physical form she uses to interact with the world. As long as the data connection to her true from remains intact, she should be able to repair herself as much as she wants.
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Pokemon VGC2011 NW Regional - Top 8 Pokemon VGC2011 US Nationals - 54th place
STTGL's pilots will never try to attack Yuki's existence outside the space-time continuum since they'll never think of doing it while Yuki's physical body is in front of them. Since they won't do this, STTGL has no way to kill or restrain Yuki and have no way to win the battle.
Whether it would take a long time or a short time, Yuki can win by stealing spiral power from the STTGL pilots. Or she can just outlast their spiral power. They have a finite amount as shown by even Simon getting worn out when against the Death Spiral Machine. I don't really remember how long it took for Simon to start to run out but I don't think it was all that long a period of time. Yuki can also disrupt "data links" which would let he disrupt the flow of spiral energy through out STTGL or just outright hijack the movements of parts of it. At the same time as this, she can disrupt the pilots through that paralysis thing I mention before. Even if you think they can break through it, it's more spiral energy they have to waste on defending against.
1. She can't steal their spiral power as I doubt she can even affect them while they are in their super spiral universe (think Haruhi closed zone only they will actively fight her off unlike Haruhi who is a sitting duck basically unaware of her abilities / what she is doing. There have been many cases where the crew accessed spiral power when it was supposed to be literally impossible / spiral power "not being in the area" or whatever. They can literally create stuff out of nothing.
2. They don't have a finite limit of spiral power. Spiral power in and of itself is beyond infinite and based on willpower. Simons willpower is infinite by the end.
3. Paralysis thing has been discussed its not going to work. The space within STTGL is basically its own closed zone ' super spiral universe (states by creators of GL) where the pilots are literally beyond god mode within. etc
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
TRE Public Account posted... ***Haruhi and TTGL spoilers*** - - - - - I don't see why she couldn't just repair it unless STTGL starts trying to take the fight outside the space-time continuum. It's just the physical form she uses to interact with the world. As long as the data connection to her true from remains intact, she should be able to repair herself as much as she wants.
If Haruhi just magically repairs her physical form after getting blown away the crew is going to be hella suspicious. Then Lord Genome hacks her data connection and CHECKMATE.
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
Obviously the Host comes in and kills both these chumps to replace them with the Doctor in TARDIS.
But seriously:
#107 | TRE Public Account | Posted 10/6/2011 3:28:57 PM | message detail | quote Yuki's true existence is outside the space-time continuum. Her physical body is just a way of interacting with things inside the continuum. Damaging the body doesn't really do anything since she can just repair it. STTGL can punch a hole in the space-time continuum so it can probably go after Yuki's true existence. However, I don't see why STTGL would even try to do something like that. They see Yuki in front of them. They have no reason to try attack anything else other than the Yuki they see. [...] STTGL relies on brute force and that won't get you anywhere against Yuki. Given enough time (and she'll have endless amounts of it if STTGL can't kill her), Yuki will figure out and start interfering with the flow of spiral energy or severing the flow of energy altogether.
This is much more convincing than anything I've heard from the STTGL supporters. Even if STTGL could brute-force the match by punching a hole in space-time, it's unlikely that it will occur to them before it's too late.
Yuki Nagato
-- You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT. {Drakeryn}
Spiral Power raises the consciousness/awareness/senses of the crew to FTL levels. It's the only way they can function/pilot the the STTGL in super spiral space due to the scale.
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
thats like broken hacking. heck he didn't even hack the old fashion way he just went "**** it" and just busted through with his garness / spiral power.
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
Also for people trying to argue the spacetime thing (even though STTGL could probably deal with even that I mean think about it STTGL could go BEYOND even that. Imagine him going into the Space time continnum plane or whatever then goes SPIRAL HAX and gets spiral energy from across the space time continuum....
But going off argument is Yuki Nagato literally that space continuum being or just the interface. That would be like arguing you couldn't truly kill Legion from Mass Effect until you destroyed every Geth hub.
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
Pirateking2000 posted... 2. They don't have a finite limit of spiral power. Spiral power in and of itself is beyond infinite and based on willpower. Simons willpower is infinite by the end.
This just plain isn't true at all. Much as I want to see TTGL win, I'm not going to sit here and let you spread blatant misinformation about my favorite series. There are two distinct, obvious situations that clearly demonstrate that Simon's spiral power, while immense, is not infinite.
The first was the bit with the death spiral machine, a trap that absorbs spiral power and uses it against them. Simon's original plan was to try to produce spiral power at a greater level than it could handle and brute force his way out. This, however, doesn't work at all. They have to change plans, and Simon is left clearly exhausted.
Then there's the final battle. In that fight, they quite clearly do not have the ability to produce the amount of spiral power they need on their own. That's why Lordgenome has to sacrifice himself to convert the Infinity Big Bang Storm attack into an enormous spiral power supercharge.
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Dying breath, light my blade and sing in shadow! Omega!
Doesn't Yuki, who is aware of all time streams and has data for everything, and can access that data, have a seemingly infinite amount of time to devise a strategy and come out with a win? What's to stop her from altering things where the fight never actually happens in the first place?
Then there's the final battle. In that fight, they quite clearly do not have the ability to produce the amount of spiral power they need on their own. That's why Lordgenome has to sacrifice himself to convert the Infinity Big Bang Storm attack into an enormous spiral power supercharge.
So the part when STTGL drill was destroyed and Simon alone was able to destroy the same anti spiral drill with just his own spiral power (in gurren lagann) didn't happen right?
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
***Haruhi and TTGL spoilers*** - - - - - I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but when Yuki froze Kyon and Mikuru, it wasn't the type of freezing they were actively aware of - they were literally frozen in such a way that their minds were not active in the slightest
when Anti-Spiral put the crew into their little pocket dimensions (or whatever they were), their minds were still active, which was what enabled them to escape - Yuki's freezing wouldn't provide them such a luxury
I'm not sure what restrictions there are on her ability to do that, but I'm sure TRE will be able to elucidate this issue
The only restriction I know of is Yuki needed to get permission from the higher ups in her group to use the ability. Other than that, it seemed like something Yuki could do on her own power. I have no idea if the permission thing would be an issue here.
1. She can't steal their spiral power as I doubt she can even affect them while they are in their super spiral universe (think Haruhi closed zone only they will actively fight her off unlike Haruhi who is a sitting duck basically unaware of her abilities / what she is doing. There have been many cases where the crew accessed spiral power when it was supposed to be literally impossible / spiral power "not being in the area" or something. They can literally create stuff out of nothing.
Haruhi isn't a sitting duck. She is perfectly capable of defending herself. If Yuki can steal Haruhi's God powers, she should be able to steal Spiral powers as well. I don't remember the cast ever NOT having access to spiral power. The only time they had a lack of it was in the Death Spiral Machine where it was constantly getting sucked up but they were still able to produce more spiral energy (until Simon started to run out).
2. They don't have a finite limit of spiral power. Spiral power in and of itself is beyond infinite and based on willpower. Simons willpower is infinite by the end.
Based on what is his will power infinite at the end? It look very finite not too long before STTGL came out. It may be larger but I don't see what makes you think it's infinite.
3. Paralysis thing has been discussed its not going to work. The space within STTGL is basically its own closed zone ' super spiral universe (states by creators of GL) where the pilots are literally god mode within. etc
Do you remember where they said that? I remember them saying they can physically manifest things like Lordgenome did with a new body but I don't remember the they are literally gods part.
Also for people trying to argue the spacetime thing (even though STTGL could probably deal with even that I mean think about it STTGL could go BEYOND even that. Imagine him going into the Space time continnum plane or whatever then goes SPIRAL HAX and gets spiral energy from across the space time continuum....
But going off argument is Yuki Nagato literally that space continuum being or just the interface. That would be like arguing you couldn't truly kill Legion from Mass Effect until you destroyed every Geth hub.
STTGL can probably attack Yuki's true form. The pilots would never think to do that, though. Beat down everyone in front of them is how they always do things. I'm not familiar with Legion so I can't comment on that.
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Pokemon VGC2011 NW Regional - Top 8 Pokemon VGC2011 US Nationals - 54th place
but it's impossible to be faster than faster-than-light.
thatsthejoke.jpg
Also for people trying to argue the spacetime thing (even though STTGL could probably deal with even that I mean think about it STTGL could go BEYOND even that.
Yeah. I buy STTGL being able to go outside of the space-time continuum by punching a hole in the side of it or whatever. But the pilots don't know that Yuki's outside of the space-time continuum. Looking at how they would actually act, I don't think they figure things out in time to win.
But going off argument is Yuki Nagato literally that space continuum being or just the interface. That would be like arguing you couldn't truly kill Legion from Mass Effect until you destroyed every Geth hub.
If I understand correctly, the real Yuki is an AI that exists outside the space-time continuum, and the girl that Haruhi and co. see is just a projected avatar being controlled by that AI.
-- You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT. {Drakeryn}
The amount of Spiral Energy produced by an individual may vary and is based not only on its own limitations, but also its immediate will to survive and persevere. Spiral Energy has both infinite potential and applications
Simon has the ability to use spiral power since humans are spiral beings. Simon has a large amount of spiral energy and Lord Genome stated he has even more than him. He had no control of his spiral energy at first but after Kamina's death he gained more control and went to a level where he could pilot massive ganmen. His spiral power is infinite, making him the most powerful being in the entire Gurren Lagann multiverse. He usually channels spiral energy into his core-drill but towards the end he learned to unleash it alone. He can fire massive beams of spiral energy from his core drill and can create drills for various purposes the latter requiring a gunman.
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
Gonna head off to the dentist in a second, but when the crew was being attacked by enemies hiding throughout space and time, they figured out pretty quick how to target them. People claiming the crew are idiots seem to forget Lord Genome/Leron.
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MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below! http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn
You guys seem to be underestimating the difficulty in pin pointing an existence within the timestream. Yuki knows exactly what the STTGL is and its abilities even before the match starts while the STTGL knows nothing. Yeah it can punch holes through the universe or whatever, but unless 1. Yuki's "Brain" exists within one of these AND 2. The STTGL has some sort of outside knowledge of where she is (and a way to actually pin point this). I don't see it getting off a hit.
I am pretty sure FTL means it could be anywhere from "a bit faster than light" to "infinitely faster than light"
(responding to pirateking, of course)
why target me lol when it was first brought up I acknowledged it and then asked if Yuki has demonstrated FTL of going from one side of the universe to the other lol, but I digress
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
***Haruhi Light Novel Volume 9&10&11(Disassociation/Surprise) SPOILERS*** - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - by the sitting duck I meant that she is not aware of her god powers. If she was she could probably just say "**** you Yuki these powers are mine"
If you haven't read the Disassociation of Haruhi Suzumiya or Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya light novels and plan to, don't read this. Haruhi's subconscious is capable of and has spawned off an entire alternate timeline if necessary to deal with threats and other groups who are trying to take her powers. It's still not clear exactly what Yuki did to take Haruhi's powers, but it isn't as easy as you make it sound.
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Pokemon VGC2011 NW Regional - Top 8 Pokemon VGC2011 US Nationals - 54th place
So the part when STTGL drill was destroyed and Simon alone was able to destroy the same anti spiral drill with just his own spiral power (in gurren lagann) didn't happen right?
Can't speak to this very well, since it only happened in the compilation movie, and I only saw that once. I do know, however, that it still happened after the big bang supercharge, and there's no reason to assume that said supercharge didn't also power up Simon and Gurren Lagann. That fact that it didn't work the first time can simply be explained as the supercharge building up as the clash continues, as spiral power tends to do.
Also, the spacetime powers of TTGL are being slightly exaggerated. They found the Anti-Spiral universe because they had Nia's ring to lock on to. Aside from that, there's the hole they made by accident, which wouldn't be able actively pinpoint Yuki to hit her. And then there's what they did against the anti-spiral ship. They basically just fired everywhere, since they had no idea where exactly to target. For that it comes down to whether or not you give Yuki enough credit to respond to what is essentially a blind attack.
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Dying breath, light my blade and sing in shadow! Omega!